Results 31 to 55 of 55
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2021-04-23, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Noma Gic
INGREDIENT: PRESTIGE CLASSES (round 13)
Dragon totem! Bear totem! Rabbit season! Duck season!
Originally Posted by Noma Gic
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2021-04-23, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Balnar
INGREDIENT: PALADIN (round 18)
His armor is the shiniest you've ever seen.
Originally Posted by Balnar
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2021-04-23, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
The Tyrant
INGREDIENT: PALADIN (round 18)
To be honest, there's not much that would be scarier than a fey devoted to lawful evil.
Originally Posted by The Tyrant
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2021-04-23, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
There you go! Seven builds for your judging pleasure! I enjoyed reading these.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2021-04-23, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
A ninja, two paladins, one paragon, and three prestigious folks...walk into a bar, I guess? That's an interesting spread.
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2021-04-23, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
I participated in this one but felt that it suffered from an inverse case of "restrictions breed creativity" in the sense that unlike most instances, it wasn't very restrictive. Even now going back to the 29 previous ingredients I have a ton of ideas and none that particularly stand out.
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2021-04-24, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
- Location
- Massa, Italy
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Yeah I know the problem , for example in this round I had an idea of doing a swashbuckler /factotum but the main problem with this build that i didn't have a clear ingredient in mind as the swashbuckler was useful for weapon finesse , high bab and intelligence to the damage of finessable weapon, while the factotum would had intelligence to dexterity and strenght check that were useful for swashbuckler and giving more versatility thanks to inspiration. But I wasn't sure if it could work so i didn't even started at building that character
Finally my computer is without any problem!
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2021-04-24, 04:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
- Location
- Sweden
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Crap, I just noticed not one but two wrong numbers/typos/wrong calculations in my entry. Oh well...
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2021-04-25, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- Jerusalem
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Well done, everyone!
I tend to agree. I came in quite late, and mainly because Zaq was asking for more builds.
Dare, did you end up not participating? Nothing here seems very "you".
Assuming you didn't, would you like to share your idea, or does it have componnents you'll use another time?
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2021-04-27, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
I've got a regular class lined up for the next contest. Then probably another conceptual one unless I think of something funnier.
Do we have any judges yet?In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2021-04-29, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Hello everyone. There seems to not be a judge willing to rate the entries for this round, and this is a shame, considering how intriguing the premices are. If you accept, then I will try my best to judge this round.
I am not an expert of E6, far from it (in fact I never even built an E6 character), and I do not promise to judge all of them today, or even this week-end, but I should be able to rate all these paladins and forsakers by the end of next week. Please be gentle, it's my first time ^^Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2021-04-29, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- Jerusalem
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Greatly appreciated, Beni!
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2021-05-04, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Hello, everyone ! Here are your wonderful builds, rated by yours truly ! I hope you enjoy ! I may have seemed harsh sometimes, but don’t take it personally, all these are still really good.
Spoiler: MERCUTIO
Elegance:
• I love this build ! Attacks of opportunity have a lot of support spread throughout the books, and seeing them used is refreshing. You know what you want to do, and you do it well, with nothing out of place. This almost looks like a compilation of everything that would make a sneak attack opportunist good (sad that Defensive Opportunist isn’t in Dragon Compendium, btw).
• Congratulations not getting lost with your skill points, but next time, please make it clear where you put your points, like make the skill names bold, or put an asterisk. Same for cross-class skills, like spellcraft that is just lost among other names.
• Your build relies heavily on being able to AoO several times people who try to hit you when you’re using Combat Expertise. That’s commendable. Alas, it is sadly not possible. Sheathing the quickrazor after an attack is a free action, not « not an action ». Which means you can’t do that during the opponent’s turn. I also checked if the quickrazor was published before the invention of immediate actions (mentioned in Miniatures Handbook, 2003, but really implemented in Expanded Psionics Handbook, in April 2004), but it was published in Races of Stone, in August 2004. So soon after EPH, if they wanted to make it take no action at all, they would have.
○ There is still a possibility that the authors of RoS didn’t know about immediate actions, and that RoS was already in writing when the other books were published. The ‘at the end of your action, you must stow the quickrazor in order to use it properly again on your next turn’ wording might make it equivalent to the Feather Fall spell, which was initially a free action usable between turns. This is arguable, so that is why I will rate the build as if it worked, and only remove .5 points from Elegance for it. But know that RAW, there is a high chance it doesn’t work like that.•Also, you’re… Not a drow. You can’t take a Drow Fighter ACF. Really nothing else to say, why would you choose this ACF ? Did I miss something ? What you could do is be a lesser drow. You then have touch of fatigue 1/day. If you cast it but hold the charge indefinitely, you are threatening but still have free hands (you won’t discharge the touch of fatigue by grabbing your blade since its targets are only creatures).
• Score: 2.0 Apart from the ruling contention, the build is pretty neat, with just the skills being hard to read, and the seemingly random choice of classes (I get that there theoretically is an XP penalty, but if you’re not going to be able to get rid of it entirely, don’t make the build more messy just to make it come up later). But the Drow Fighter level just made me pause for a moment. It is good, yes, but you just can’t take it.
Originality:
• Optimized opportunity (OpOp, if you will) isn’t something you see that often. Ninja is something you see never. And Kenku is a race I even forgot existed. All those combined make for a character that I really didn’t see coming, even less so with all the PrC and paladins of the round.
• Quickrazor is sometimes used in optimization, granted, mostly with factotums, but using it with Mercurial Strike is really novel. I laughed out loud when I saw that (after I spend a little while wondering why you needed Quickrazor if you already had Quick Draw).
• Apart from this combo, however, none of your feats really struck me as particularly original, just standard AoO and Sneak Attack bonuses. Also, you hyped the kenku’s voice imitation at the beginning, but you made nothing of it. I was disappointed.
• Score: 6.5 The concept and premises are very original. The execution… less so.
Power:
• It is pretty hard to rate this build. If the opponent just ignores him, he arguably only has 2 low-damages talons (granted with a lot of d6s attached if you have a friend), or one talon and a quickrazor, to deal damage. And that is not that bad, but not that good. You might be able to force the opponent to attack you with that damage, but I’m not confident. You are very vulnerable to casters, and even the very late Mage Slayer doesn’t change that that much, and you can’t do anything against Undeads and Constructs (granted, that’s the case of most rogue-types). Ghost Step is very good to go assassinate casters, if they are still on the ground, though.
• If people are attacking you, on the other hand, you can do a lot more alone. Up to 5 Mercurial Strikes can really mess up people. In the end, if you don’t use Expertise and the opponent attacks you, that hurts. If you use Expertise and the opponent doesn’t attack you, you just lost some to-hit bonuses. If you use Expertise and the opponent attacks you, there you can shine. I’m not really sold on a build relying on the actions of the opponent to be efficient, even so powerful when it works, but that’s maybe a bias from my part.
• Score: 3.5 One-Trick Pony. The trick works, it works well. Any other case and you are subpar.
UoSI:
• You used the first level of the Secret Ingredient. You took 4 levels, but really, the last three could have been more Sneak Attack Fighter levels that the build wouldn’t have changed much. You didn’t even mention Ghost Step in your Breakdown. I feel like replacing all ninja levels by rogue levels in masterwork studded leather would better the build in almost every way. Neither poison use nor great leap are used to any extent, and hit-and-run seems to be more essential to the build than Sudden Strike.
• Score: 2.0 Just taking levels in the Secret Ingredient is not enough for it to be used well. And here, it is definitely not used well. Having Wis to AC is good, but it does not mak the build really unique.
Final Thoughts:
• I was pretty excited for this character, and was a bit disappointed. Between the illegal choices, the secret ingredient of questionable utility and the generic feats, it doesn’t live up to my expectations for the premises (which were quite high, I won’t lie).
• Total: 14.25
Spoiler: Laerlor
Haley : ‘Hey, wait a minute. Aren’t all dark elves evil ?’
Laerlor : ‘Well, that will just have to be one more arbitrary mold I won’t fit in.’
Elegance:
• It pains me to penalize such glorious cheese (I love cheese), but the glory of a cheese is measured by it’s accordance to the rules. And being able to cast 2nd level divine on some days and 2nd level arcane on others do not qualify you for Mystic Theurge. If it did, the Chameleon and its adaptable feat would qualify for every prestige class that requires any feat. You would only be able to use the abilities of the Mystic Theurge when you complete the prerequisites, and that is never the case. You would have to use Mad Faith/Precocious apprentice shenanigans for that.
○ You could go the bigender approach, but that would be reaaaaaaally questionable. Beyond the issues that you already stated, the RAWness of it is pretty obviously illegal. The Player’s Handbook clearly has a little paragraph (page 109) stating « Your character can be either male or female. » (yes, that’s the whole subsection on gender). You could say that ‘or’ can be inclusive, but that’s not how it is used in the vast majority of D&D. There are things that allow you to change gender pretty easily, but even the BoEF doesn’t have rules for bigenderism/hermaphroditism (Yes I read it just for that. Yes it was insufferable.)• The rest of the abilities are pretty interesting. They are pretty centered on defense, be it mobility or illusions and enchantment. That fits pretty well with the concept of the character, who has been discriminated their whole life. Not that focused, but pretty thematic.
• Lots of cross-class skills. That’s not pretty.
• Score: 2.5 A component essential to the build is illegal. That stings. The rest is not that bad, but nothing particularly elegant either.
Originality:
• This is a gender-fluid neutral good drow living on the surface changing their spellcasting specialty according to the gender they unwillingly lean to each morning ! Need I say more ?
• I do ? He is a conjurer based on flexibility and uses it to get out of sight, with enchantment and necromancy as his forbidden schools, his whole schtick is moving away and calling people to fight in his stead. She is a cleric who has always been cloistered, with this assigned gender being seemingly a burden, making her necropolis-born, and more centered on necromancy and beating/cursing her enemies in close quarters. And finally, they have a fey heritage (by their mother, I assume ?) giving them a lot of enchantment based on charisma. That’s what they use to conceal their nature (all of it), when they do not feel like it. Three parts, three ability scores, two genders sticking to each other by the heritage. Of course, that is only assumption based on the three domains and the choice of feats, but having this choice of banned schools on wizard to have these as SLAs is pretty interesting.
•A lot of the feats you took (take one of your SLA, give it more versatility) are not seen often, and push forward the theme of a magical jack-of-all-trades.
• Sadly, no spell list, and next to no use of the god of trades that you chose.
• Score: 9.5 The concept itself is extremely unique, uses some very interesting cheese (that doesn’t work, but still) and is very well backed-up. Congrats !
Power:
• There are a lot of very good (some would say broken) ACF here, from abrupt jaunt to cloistered cleric dip, and your Devotion feats are really good too in this kind of build.
• The immense versatility granted by your multiple SLAs means you will shine in social situation, and that your utility will be very good.
• However, the 3rd level is a very good one, especially for wizards, and losing out on it hurts the character quite a lot. Even without the 6th level, which you can’t take, I don’t think Laerlor will be comparable to a 5th level wizard or a 5th level cleric in terms of pure oomph.
• Plus, dozens of low-level spells do not an effective caster make. You will be action-starved all the time, and you don’t have anything to do with all those spell slots. Also, you’re MAD. Between all three mental attributes. Illusion, enchantment and necromancy casters really like their DC to be high, so having low-level spells keyed on a low attribute is not really good. That’s a bit better for the wizard, but still, the 2 most powerful lv 2 conjuration spells (Web and Glitterdust) require saving throws.
• Score: 2.0 Laerlor is versatile. They can cast spells all day long and trick half an army. But when it comes to combat (on which a good part of the build is focused), it is a bit lackluster, and I fear they might get ambushed and killed at the first succeeded saving throw from the opponent.
UoSI:
• That is good. Very very good. All three levels taken, of course, but the fact that the whole concept of the character is based on the paragon drow gender-dependant ability is very interesting. You use the abilities of the paragon class (and of the race, since with that kind of ingredient, it is hard to distinguish the two) throughout the build with the multiple feats giving more uses per day or versatility to your SLAs. All in all, a very good Secret Ingredient giving its flavor to an already good dish.
• Score: 4.5
Final Thoughts:
• A really nice build, interesting through and through, with some nice interactions, and built upon a ridiculous but hilarious class feature. Really very good.
• It really is a shame that the last class level doesn’t work like that. I would have loved to see this build expanded upon just a little bit more. Also, a bit more focus in your SLAs would have been appreciated. What do you want to do in combat against something with a high Will save ? What spells do you typically prepare ?
• In any case, it is pretty engaging and thought-out, and I love the premises.
• Total: 18.5
Spoiler: Alaric the Exiled
Yooo, I heard you liked Forsakers, so we put more Forsaker in your Forsaker so you could forsake while forsaking !
Elegance:
• You took a flaw, so you lose a point. I don’t want to do this, you understand. Making people lose points is the least of my favorite things to do, but rules are rules are rules, and losing a point is the rule right now.
• Very clean build, with simple feats going very well with one another (but the feat is just Sunder at level 6, Improved Sunder is another feat that has Sunder as a prerequisite). The build has a clean goal, is well explained and is well-organised. Plus, I like how the flaw is bought back in the end. What is there more to be said ?
•Well, there is your skills I have something to say about. You… Know you can’t have more than 9 ranks in a skill at level 6, right ? That doesn’t affect anything else, but that’s the kind of things that grinds my gears. Also, 2 skill points for being litterate is even less useful for you than for anyone else. You learn to read at level 2 ! And it’s unlikely you’ll have to read dozens of scroll as a level one character ! Just be patient and increase Listen instead ! That would allow you to get a bit more Survival or Tumble.
• Score: 3.5 Minus one for the flaw, minus 0.5 for the skill rank and the name of the feat.
Originality:
• ‘Who are you ?’ ‘I’m a Forsaker.’ ‘And what do you like and dislike in life?’ ‘Forsaking, and magic.’ ‘And… do you have any hobby ?’ ‘I kill mages.’ ‘Yeah, but how ?’ ‘By forsaking magic.’ ‘But with what ?’ ‘Non-magical means !’
• This character is just the quintessential forsaker, so perfectly what is expected of the class that it becomes unexpected and gives a personnality to the character.
• Pierce Magical Concealment is indeed hilarious, and really can be useful at any level. You’ve got some nice mage-killing combos there.
• Still some pretty bland feats, like your four last epic feats.
• Score: 6 ‘So expected it’s unexpected’ is funny and interesting, but can only get you so far.
Power:
• Why did you not take Shape Soulmeld (Spellward Shirt) ? Whyyyyyy !? No, really, your primary feature is a Spell Resistance that explicitly stacks with every other source, and to boost it, you take a feat that is meant to increase a normal spell resistance that doesn’t stack. Spellward Shirt would have given you +10 instead of +2, without the alignment restriction. Boost spell resistance could have been good if you had another source of spell resistance elsewhere, but with your inability to use magic items, I can’t even assume that ! This choice single-handedly makes your SR from almost unbeatable to around 60% protection. That’s not good.
• A number of really unoptimal feats. Improved natural armor ? That is really underwhelming. Frail on a melee character is generally not something you want, and as I said, boost spell resistance is lackluster.
•That said, Alaric does his job well. More than well in fact. Fast movement and SR, plus the Mage Slayer/Pierce X line make for a terrifying opponent for a caster. They can’t (if they are unlucky) prevent you from coming close and once you are, they can’t escape.
•You’ll have to rely on your allies for some of the most heavy-hitters non-casters, who will have magic items and weapons, and will probably beat you 1v1. Sunder helps for that, but i twill not turn the tide single-handedly.
• Score: 2.5 You are pretty strong, but really, not using any source of SR except Boost Spell Resistance is just sad. And being a pretty one-dimensional character who will not do much against non-casters also hurt a bit.
UoSI:
• Perfect use of the Secret Ingredient, hands-down. Taken as soon as possible, 5/6 levels in it, most, if not all of your abilities are based on those of the Forsaker to increase them as much as you could…
• That line of thought made you make some unoptimal choices power-wise, but the result is just a forsaker cranked up to eleven. Even Sunder goes in the mold of improving on the forsaker’s magic item destruction schtick. Nothing more to say.
• Score: 5 If you could lose a point for putting too much of the secret ingredient, you might have, but as it is now, it is the perfect example of a secret ingredient built and improved upon.
Final Thoughts:
• The build is simple, very focused, and doesn’t lose its way. That makes it pretty good at what it wants to do, being a Forsaker that kills mages, but maybe it would become a bit boring to play in a campaign without too many spellcasters.
• Taking a flaw was a bold move. It probably would have been more accepted to have a moderate amount of taint (Heroes of Horror), with Gum Swells/Dead Eyes (which would have combo’ed with PMC) and Skin Thickens/Bone Thicken as your corruption effects. Plus that goes well with the forsaker idea that magic eventually corrupts everything it touches.
• Total: 17
Spoiler: Dhrun the Thunderhead
Being GOD is good, but being GOD with a big armor is better !
Elegance:
• The build is very enjoyable to read, with a clear goal in mind, helping your allies perform well in combat and elsewhere. The class levels are simple and ordered, with the marshall being both good to allow entry in Runesmith and to improve on the concept of the build with his aura.
• The various parts of the build are well explained and justified, and they all make sense. Good points.
•That said, some of the feats and epic feats are questionable/illegal inside the build.
○ I understand that it was necessary for bolstering voice, but really, Leading the Attack is pretty ridiculous on a character with 8 Str and +2 BAB (which reminds me that the BAB on your build table is messy. That’s a shame, it was the only mistake on that table).• Score: 3 The feats have some issues, and failure to prerequisites is a big no-no, but overall the build is very elegant. I like it.
○ Did you not read Magic of the Land or did you mess up your skill points ? Because MotL requires a Knowledge (Nature) check, that you can’t even attempt without ranks in it. That’s too bad, that’s one of the rare Knowledge skills in which you didn’t invest points.
○ Did you think Uncanny Forethought worked in heavy armor ? It doesn’t. Since you don’t prepare the spells, you can’t prepare them on runes. And since most of the usage of UF is in combat, the feat becomes nigh-unusable on this build. It comes late in the build so it’s not that bad, but still.
○ And finally, I’m not a big fan of taking a Planar Touchstone in the middle of Mechanus, a Plane with which your character has no connection, or any way to go there by himself, and whose Planar Touchstone is hidden behind a test that Dhrun has only a 13% chance of succeeding at. Plus, you don’t qualify. You need 8 ranks in Knowledge (the Planes) and you only have 6. Really, taking another feat instead would have been much better.
Originality:
• The concept of the GOD wizard isn’t new. In fact, it wasn’t new ten years ago. And your character is some of the most textbook definition of this concept. Transmutation-oriented wizard with more spell slots at level 6 than some bards have at level 20, giving the win to their teammates without taking the spotlight is really something that has been used and abused in all kinds of colors and flavors. That said, Dhrun manages to have some unique things he does well :
• The most obvious part, the armor, and other ways to boost your defenses. Not having to cast mage armor and still getting more AC and HP than a regular wizard can go a pretty long way to give you more versatility on 1st-level slots, especially with Focused Specialist. That is not often taken since you have to lose a level to enter Runesmith, but in E6 that is a far less important issue. Good thinking.
• Marshall and Bolstering Voice. Buffing without a spell. Adventuring days can be long, especially at low levels, and not having to put in a spell for will saves (and even then, I don’t know of a 3rd or less level wizard spell giving +2 to will saves for the entire party).
• Score: 3.5 Yeah… A bit too standard to my taste. There are a few nice things, but nothing made me go ‘Oh, that is nice !’ apart from the Prestige Class itself.
Power:
• Dhrun is a wizard. He’s obviously powerful, even at lower level. The question is if it is more powerful than a pure wizard with generic feats of the same level.
• Well I think yes. He helps his teammates masterfully, with the whole build working for this goal, and even if the DM puts you in so many encounters that you don’t have any spell slot left, you can still contribute with Marshall and Martial Stance. Toughening Transmutation is honestly excellent, and Magic of the Land (if you switch the Knowledge (the Planes) to Knowledge (Nature) will really help your party if they have no designated healer.
• Too bad for Uncanny Forethought, though.
• Score: 4.25 A strong build almost all-around, with lots and lots of utility, in and out combat. I also really like Ironthunder Horn (how is that Transmutation and not Evocation) and Dweomer Vortex.
UoSI:
• The Secret Ingredient fits inside the build pretty well, especially thematically. You make good use of its ability. But only one level of this class doesn’t give you much of its personnality. In fact, removing Runesmith and casting mage armor instead would change little to the build, and arguably even make it stronger since you’d be able to use Uncanny Forethought more efficiently.
• Score: 2.25 Not much to say here, there’s just not enough of the ingredient to give flavor to the menu. There is really nothing you can do with Runesmith that you couldn’t without, and that is pretty sad.
Final Thoughts:
• That is a very good build, and it would probably be pretty fun to play in a campaign. Really, it was very enjoyable and you could feel the theme behind the crunch. But I don’t think it fits in this kind of contest, where the Secret Ingredient is so important, especially not in a high-originality round, when your concept is something that has been expanded upon countless times in the past.
• Also, the multiple issues with the feats and the illegal Planar Touchstone pull it down. That’s a shame. Check your prereqs, folks.
• Total: 13.0
Spoiler: Noma Gic
Thank you Zaq for that Looney Tunes reference, I chuckled ^^
Evil spellcasters attacking you ? Just say no. Wizards can’t legally kill your family without consent.
Elegance:
• Nothing crazy here, and nothing that made me cringe. It is just a good build, with everything in its place.
• The build is well organized, but the order in which the feats are gained is pretty random, and some of them really don’t go anywhere. Vow of Poverty doesn’t interact with much else, and even overlaps with the Forsaker ability. Shifter Instinct, notably, is pretty bland and doesn’t synergize with anything else. It seems like you took it just because it was a shifter feat.
•I… feel like the three parts of the build (Shifter, Barb and Forsaker) are almost completely separate from one another. Their class features don’t really complement each other, and even clash sometimes (whirling frenzy and its -2 don’t mesh well with the -5 from Ragewild fighting). Also, what kind of shifter are you !? I of course understood that you chose longtooth, but I had to go to Tactics for that. I would have preferred if you put it directly in the description of your race, that would have been easier to read.
• Why Swim ? Why put 2 points to be literate when you automatically become literate with your 4th level ? I’m not sure what you want to do with that.
• Score: 4.0 Nothing really bad here, but nothing incredible either. Bonus points for being the only completely legal build today.
Originality:
• Shifter Barbarian is pretty common, but shifter forsaker is not. I appreciate that you put that together, and that is pretty thematic too. However, there really isn’t much unique combo between feats and/or class features to really speak of (the spellward shirt is pretty well-known on a forsaker and all the other feats are really just used in their intended way). However, there are some really cool specific points that I loved :
• Tribe shifting. That is the kind of bold claims that I like. You don’t really make much of it, but the mere idea that you can switch your totem mid-progression is worth a lot. Thank you for that.
• And of course, Vow of Poverty. When you think about it, it’s pretty obvious, but this feat is so often skipped before even giving it a thought that it really was a surprise to me. It is interesting to see how you tried to patch its obvious weaknesses with Blind Fight and high Spell esistance.
• You success in having almost only interesting feats when your primary class requires very bland ones, and that is commendable. Congratulations.
• Score: 7.5
Power:
• Why is the Spellward Shirt so late !? It single-handedly makes you nigh-immune to spells, even without investing Essentia inside it. And since you can shape a soulmeld, extra essentia gives you 2 essentia, or a final almost-impassable SR of 31 ! That really helps a build like this who has not many ways to deal with casters. Same thing with extra rage. With your Vow and the Forsaker’s DR, what you need in low epic is not defense as much as offense, and Extra Rage will give you that much more efficiently than 3 shifter feats.
• Having Ragewild fighting really will not help that often for the will save effect, as you say you wanted to use it. If you are close enough to a caster to hit them with your immediate action attack from Ragewild, then chances are that you already killed them, or that they won’t be able to cast because of your attack of opportunity. And if they blast you from afar with will saves, ragewild will not help you and you will fall the same way. Your first priority should be to increase your Spell Resistance. It specifically stacks, use it !
• Ironically, for most of your career, your Forsaker will be very good at fighting mundane, with his good defense, his multiple attacks and his improved movement speed from barbarian. But he won’t be able to fight casters effectively. Pretty fast, your magical enemies will be able to fly or to teleport, and your poor Will saves will leave you vulnerable to the first Save-or Suck coming your way.
•The final result seems pretty good, though. As soon as you take Spellward Shirt, you become a juggernaut, impervious to most magical attacks, with enough attacks and Str to plow through enemies. You’ll still have difficulties against caster, but whatever if they can’t hurt you back.
• Score: 3.5 Overall a pretty solid build, that will be hard to pass for enemies. The lack of magic items is still a liability, of course (E6 with 10 epic feats is roughly equivalent in terms of XP to lv 12, and that’s the point where magic items really start to take off and make up a good part of a build) but the rest of the build seems to almost make up for it.
UoSI:
• The forsaker… is really not at the center of the build. It’s not just that you didn’t really use the forsaker, you seem to have tried to replicate its abilities with other things, making it almost useless except as a constraint. It’s defensive capabilities are not useful if you have so much AC, and Tough armor is even useless with beasthide and beasthide elite, since different sources of natural armor do not stack. The Natural Weapons ability overlaps with Vow of Poverty, and you don’t improve on its Spell Resistance until your 9th (!) epic feat !
• If you count which class or race your feats improve (except for the 3 prereqs, which improve the build on a whole), the Forsaker has less of them than the Shifter ! The shifter has five : Ragewild fighting, Healing factor, Shifter instinct, Extra shifter trait and Beasthide elite. The Forsaker only has Shape Soulmeld and Bonus Essentia, and arguably the vows, even though some of the abilities of Vow of poverty replace those of the forsaker instead of improving on them.
• At least, there are 3 levels of Forsaker, the maximum you could do without shenanigans.
Score: 1.75 I feel like you built this character around the forsaker instead of incorporating it. And like the good appetizer that is mayonnaise, the taste is really good only if it is well-mixed.
Final Thoughts:
• This build was a mixed bag. On the one hand, the result was pretty powerful, with a good use of what you chose and some great thinking, like the tribe thing. And in the end, you have a character with spell resistance, AC, HP, and offense off the roof.
• On the other, that comes at the price of the Forsaker just… being there until the very end of the build. It wouldn’t have taken much to really make use of it, but right now, if you didn’t tell me what was the secret ingredient, I would have answered ‘shifter’ without a moment’s notice.
• Total: 16.75
Spoiler: Balnar
A paladin of Mystra who can’t cast spells. Those… are some interesting premises.
Elegance:
• A nice little build, pretty centered on what Balnar wants to do, well-organized and readable.
• Not that many double duties (prerequisites that work for several things), but nothing really useless, even though there are a few questionable choices.
• There is a problem with your skill points, at level 6, you gain 4 skill points instead of the normal 3. Furthermore, you can’t take Knowledge Devotion at level 1, since it requires 5 ranks in Knowledge. You would have to switch with Power Attack, which really doesn’t change much to the character, but is still an error.
•A bigger mistake is that you can’t have more than 2 Domain feats on the same character (Complete Champion, p52). The protection domain is not integral to the build, but that will be another penalty.
• Score: 2.25 Overall very enjoyable build to read, with everything neatly folded. The few errors are not integral to the build and can be easily fixed (except for Protection Devotion), which means the malus is reduced.
Originality:
• A paladin striving to be MAD on Wisdom instead of Charisma is really non-standard. And while mage slayer is an uncommon but not unseen playstyle, using Earth Devotion for that is something I have never seen. I appreciate that.
• A paladin of Mystra, goddess of magic, without spells, and focusing on killing mages is something that tickled my interest, both mechanically and story-wise. I reaaaally would have liked some backstory as to how he has gotten to this career. (Of course you’re not obligated to give one, and it won’t make you lose points, but I would have liked)
•Apart from Earth Devotion, Serenity and Ancestral Knowledge, the chosen feats and ACF are pretty standard. Lots of interesting things, but pretty standard. No very unque interaction either.
• Score: 8 The whole build got me hooked from the beginning, with the Wis-MADness and mage slayer build, and the rest was pretty interesting too. Overall a pretty unique paladin you’ve got there.
Power:
• I appreciate you wanting to be more MAD, I really do, but… Was it really necessary ? You can’t dump Intelligence, since you have Combat Expertise, and Wisdom really doesn’t give you much by itself, since you have no spells. Just keeping your paladin abilities on charisma and your knowledges on Intelligence would have saved you two feats without costing that much. Yes, you have a better Will that way, and +2 or +3 on Knowledge checks, but is that really worth 2 feats ? Also, I’m not sure if you realized that, but the demolishing smite of Awesome Smite, which would have helped you kill things that are not casters and given you more versatility, is still keyed on Charisma. It improves your smite, but bypassing DR is still an ability from the feat, and is not modified by Serenity. A small thing, but it is still important.
○ If you still wanted to play a dwarf without Ancestral Knowledge and the Charisma hit worried you, there are other kinds of dwarves, like the desert dwarves from Races of Faerun who have a penalty to Dexterity instead.• Good to have noticed that you would need more smiting, but I think I would have doubled-down on it instead of Extra Smiting. Most of your devotion abilities last for an entire encounter, while you would like to be able to smite every round or so.
• Also a bit of nitpicking, but Earth Devotion will lose in interest pretty quickly. As soon as casters start to be able to fly, you will want to win Initiative every round to pin them before they get away, and putting difficult terrain around them will not change that. You might want to take Improved Initiative earlier
•Apart from that, the build seems functional. You trip well (Awesome Smite + Improved Trip is pretty nasty), you slay mages, you have a pretty good protection, even without using Combat Expertise that much. Really, you are pretty good at what you do.
• Score: 2.75 : The build does what is advertised, and it does it pretty good. It blocks casters who are in contact with earth, while being sturdy enough to not get killed in the process. The issue is that this kind of encounters might become less common as you level up (as in ‘in epic feats territory’), and investing a lot of the build in knowledge, which is all in all pretty situational (you’re not going to fight undeads and outsiders every day) may hurt a bit.
UoSI:
• 6 levels : good. Nothing more to say here, you can’t use a Secret Ingredient much more than that.
• Pretty good use of Turn Undead with the devotions, very good use of smite with the Awesome Smite, overall you gave justice to the paladin.
•Nothing for Aura of Courage and Lay on Hands, but that’s really splitting hair.
• Score: 4.5 : Really not much to say, just a very good use of a paladin, with its ACF and all.
Final Thoughts:
•Very cool character concept, intriguing and pretty well-built.
• Some questionable choices power-wise and not a lot of versatility, but it seems pretty enjoyable to play.
• I still wanna know how he got where he is.
• Total: 17.5
Spoiler: The Tyrant
One of the worst enemy I would like to face. First because I dislike fear effects, but above all because of the sheer number of saves I would have to do each fight. The Tyrant lives to his stenchy glory by rebuking even IRL people.
Elegance:
• I'm sorry to start like that but... No. It doesn't work like that. The Death Devotion feat doesn't give you an Energy Drain ability, not more than an Enervating weapon would. The term "energy drain" is not mentioned, and the feat explicitly states that only the weapon is shrouded in negative energy. That invalidates a lot of the build by itself.
• You don't fulfill the prerequisites for Brand of the Nine Hells, and hence not for Mark of Nessus. You have to be a devil to take the Brand, so except if I missed an errata, that doesn't work either.
• Also, I don't know where the +2 Reflex at level 2 comes from. Is that a typo that you repeated for the next levels? Did you initially think the Swashbuckler had good Reflex, then only corrected the first level?
• Also your ability scores are... messy. With the race and the template that have opposite effects on some scores, that doesn't look really min-maxed to me, and I find myself wondering why you chose lesser Maeluth in the first place, except for the backstory. Did you think they would qualify for Brand of the Nine Hells ? (Just to be clear, they don't, they do not have the [Law, Evil] subtype nor devil traits, and the lesser version isn't even an Outsider. Being half-devil in the lore doesn’t give them any mechanical advantages)
• Score: 1 There are too may weird things here, and with flat-out illegal choices, I cannot give you any more than that.
Originality:
• Ah, the usual « Be a paladin, pump your charisma, then use it for as many things as possible ». It is quite strong, but not the most original by itself, and using one of the most famously (infamously ?) strong LA+0 template for a Cha-based character doesn’t help your case that much. Neither do the two ACF, that are pretty classic all things considered.
•There are not so many unique combos between your abilities, notably intimidate and negative levels seem like two entirely separate parts of the build, with no synergy beyond reducing the saves for intimidate with negative levels.
•That said, going Intimidate in the first place was pretty unexpected. This is not an often used playstyle, and having it on a paladin was pretty refreshing. Especially the snatch trophy line, which was both fluff and crunch, and that I haven’t seen in a long time.
•Apprentice soldier and especially the Brand/Mark feats were also very unexpected (the Brand and Mark mostly because they are illegal, but still). I do not know if what you got from these was worth three feats, but they were not-often-seen feat that really fit well with your lore and your vision of the character. I like it !
•I also liked the use of supernatural transformation, even though I very much dislike what you thought you could do with it.
• Score: 5.5 Nothing really mind-blowing here, and some over-used choices, notably the template. However, most of the build made sense thematically, and a lot of your feats were pretty interesting and rarely seen, even though the use you made of them was pretty standard. Overall a pretty original build. The backstory and the time invested in it are paying.
Power:
• I’m really glad I don’t have to rate Create Spectral Spawn. Giving unlimited control on creatures killed and giving them a LA+7 (!) template with flight, intangibility and 2 negative levels on touch ? While keeping their class levels ? That is so obviously broken that it would turn the whole build on its head. I even had difficulties understanding how this could have been WotC-approved, until I saw the name of the author of the book it’s in. Eric L. Boyd, infamous for having given us the perfectly balanced Serpent Kingdom, and pun-pun with it.
○ That said, even if Death Devotion did count as energy drain, you really did not optimize it’s use with your build. Death Devotion only allows you to inflict one negative level to a given creature (since you’re max level 6), which means you have to wait for your spectral servants to weaken an opponent until they only have one HD left before you can finish them off with Death Devotion and turn them into a spectral creature. Plus it prevents you from using snatch trophy on them, since they die without getting reduced under 0 HP. Putting so much of the build on a feature that you won’t be able to use more than once per opponent is really unoptimal. There are other, better, more unambiguously legal ways to get Energy Drain, like a dip in Soul Eater.•Apart from that, the build is okay. You definitely put a lot of effort into getting a useful Intimidate, and stacking save-or-suck will probably drop a lot of opponents, even with good saves. However, most of these abilities only affect people adjacent to you, or 10 ft apart. And you have no good mobility option and a 20 ft movement speed. You will have a lot of problems with anything ranged, and get kited pretty easily.
•Some of your feats seem also under-used, like Mark of Nessus (even if itw as legal), where you almost totally skipped the second ability, since you have no natural attack, and Frightful presence. With so many epic feats, nigh on every challenge you will encounter will have at least your number of HD, so Frightful Presence will be useless 99% of the time.
• Score: 2.25 : Not an inherently bad build, if you skip the illegal things, but a lot of things are not used to their full potential, and it still has a lot of weaknesses that are difficult to patch with items. The lack of mobility is also a big issue.
UoSI:
• Very good use of the Secret Ingredients, with a Cha-based build and Stand Fast to improve on Divine Grace, good use of Rebuke Undead to boost Death Devotion, 5 of your 6 levels being paladin, good use of aura of despair for the intimidate build… Still, there are some abilities that are not really expanded upon, like the deadly touch or the Smite. Still a good use of the ingredient.
• Score: 4
Final Thoughts:
•The character is ruined by the illegal choices in it.
• Two concepts (Drain and save-or-suck) well expanded upon but with little synergy, especially since you can’t really drain a lot.
• Good lore, and good lore-mechanics relevance, well integrated within the paladin chassis.
• Total: 12.5
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-05-04 at 02:21 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2021-05-04, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Thank you very much, Beni-Kujaku! Quite enjoyable to read.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
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2021-05-04, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Many thanks for judging, Beni-Kujaku! No dispute from me.
Also:Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku
Excuse me, I have to go fix a bunch of NPCs.
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2021-05-04, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
No disputes from me either~
Builds were a bit rushed sadly, hence mistakes.
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2021-05-04, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
I have some disputes, but nothing worth slowing things down for. Thanks for the judgements!
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2021-05-05, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
One response here!
Originally Posted by AlaricIn the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
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2021-05-05, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
You are right about Improved Sunder‚ of course. I tend to not check editions when I look things up. I have to keep an eye for that. Your score doesn't change‚ though. I really didn't make you lose points for that‚ and only included it with the skill point mistake for completeness.
About Boost Spell Resistance and Shape Soulmeld (Spellward Shirt) ‚ two things would have made the SS(SS) not a problem. This is soul magic‚ granted. But using souls to create a shirt protecting you from magic is not that different from making a deal with devils (who are magic entities and feed on souls) to protect you from magic. It's not like you use actual spells‚ and accepring to use a little bit of magic to be more effective at destroying real magic can be a part of the build‚ after all. Some forsaker canonically travel and ally with wizards after all.
And the second reason is that the Iron Chef is initially an optimization challenge. If one part of the build contradicts a little bit the backstory‚ without even betraying it completely‚ but is integral to the build's power‚ I don't think any judge would penalize you.Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-05-05 at 04:33 PM.
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2021-05-06, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Are we expecting any other judges?
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2021-05-09, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
We are not, so let's get this show on the road!
Build Stub Ingredient Score (place) Chef Mercutio NE kenku ninja 4 / swashbuckler 1 / sneak attack fighter 1 Ninja 14.25 (5th) MinimanMidget Laerlor NG gender-fluid drow cloistered cleric 1 / conjurer 1 / drow paragon 3 / mystic theurge 1 Racial paragon classes 18.5 (1st/gold) H_H_F_F Alaric CE human barbarian 1 / forsaker 5 Prestige classes 17.0 (3rd/bronze) Xei_Win_Toh Dhrun LN gold dwarf marshal 1 / wizard 4 / runesmith 1 Prestige classes 13.0 (6th) PanosIs Noma Gic CG shifter totem barbarian 3 / forsaker 3 Prestige classes 16.75 (4th) Quentinas Balnar NG dwarf paladin 6 Paladin 17.5 (2nd/silver) Panosis The Tyrant LE unseelie fey lesser maeluth swashbuckler 1 / paladin of tyranny 5 Paladin 12.5 (7th) Quentinas
Thanks as always to all contestants and to our judge! Congrats to H_H_F_F (for a well-deserved win with a concept that blew me away), PanosIs, and Xei_Win_Toh!
Watch this space for a new contest up soon. It'll be a lot more traditional!Last edited by Zaq; 2021-05-09 at 02:38 PM.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2021-05-09, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2021-05-09, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Alaric is CE, it says so right at the start of the summary, before the spoiler blocks.
Obviously, I'm happy to medal on my first attempt. Imagine the amount of bricks I shat when I saw there was another Forsaker, though...
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2021-05-09, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Table updated
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2021-05-09, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XXX
Yay, a gold medal! I'm very happy with this result, I didn't really expect much. Thanks for the compliment, Zaq!
Beni, I'm really glad you liked my submission. I also agree with your criticism - I felt like I couldn't take theurge, but I couldn't articulate why ("well, technically I CAN cast second level spells of both kinds, so... why not?) So I went for it. Your chameleon example was an excellent explanation as to why that doesn't work. I do think some of Laerlor's SLA's give them a bit more combat prowess than you verbally gave them credit for, but a 2 still seems like a fine score.
Well done, fellow contestants! I really enjoyed your work, though I can't lie - I was really looking forward to daremetoidareyou's "finest work". Still, the competition we ended up with was fun and interesting. Thank you all for participating!
Thanks again to our judge, Beni-Kujaku, and thanks as always to our chairman, Zaq!