New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do it.

    I do not want to railroad my players so I asked them to play heroic minded characters and set them in a loose in a small scrappy sock shaped nation with lots of problems.

    Due to Covid, it actually made sense to split the party until we can either A) get vaccinated or B) set up video conferencing. Three PCs are up north (Neshik, gnome healer with lots of support magic, Aranil, elf fighter/invoker, and Svetlana, half-orc that excels at hitting things causing them to fall down), so I’ve been running solo adventures for the one player I can still meet with on the regular. His PC is a holy warrior/investigator named Kormatin.

    Kormatin is a low ranking member of the priesthood of the goddess Khemra and Neshik is a high ranking member of the priesthood of Khemra (though his rank is mostly ceremonial, he is a high charisma mascot for the religion). When it’s time to reunite the party, Kormatin can be ordered to go make sure Neshik doesn’t die doing something heroic. Neshik, Aranil, and Svetlana plus a few NPCs are planning to go all Magnificent Seven on a bunch of orc raiders to the north. Neshik, Aranil, and Sevetlana have been doing heroic deeds in the north for quite some time. If they defeat the orcs, this means that 90% of the northerners problems will be solved, so the PCs will be motivated to go south.

    All the provinces have proper names, but because the nation is shaped like a sock, the players have taken to naming the provinces as parts of the sock: Rim, Upper Ankle, Mid Ankle, Lower Ankle, Heel, Arch, and Toe.

    A hostile nation with a sorcerer based nobility, Swynfaredia, is probing the nation for a potential invasion. The king and most of the other powerful people in the nation have moved their soldiers and spell-casters to reinforce the southern border (Heel, Arch, and Toe). This has led to the northern provinces being undermanned and vulnerable to orc extortionists, goblins raiders, human brigands, and assorted random monsters. The three PCs have been fighting goblins and monsters in the north while Kormatin has been rooting out magical spies in the south.

    The province of Toe has a Lion King situation. The Duke’s younger brother (aka Uncle Scar) arranged a “hunting accident” for his brother the duke Mufasa. He hired an evil druid to make the boar he was hunting far deadlier while also slipping a mildly debilitative poison into Mufasa’s wine.

    Now the new Duke, Simba is fifteen, going on sixteen (the legal age of adulthood here). Uncle Scar is aware that if Simba dies in an unlikely “accident” no one would believe that two dukes in a row died in freak accidents, but Uncle Scar has a plan. He has been filling his nephew’s head with two pieces of advice.

    1) Simba should not worry about marrying and producing an air until after the Swynfardia situation is resolved. That needs his full attention.
    2) Simba is a young untested ruler. In order to win the respect of his peers and subjects, he should lead the troops from the front lines.

    My concern is if I make it too obvious that Uncle Scar killed Mufasa and is trying to kill Simba the subplot will come across as cliché and be a subpar adventure.
    If I make it too subtle, the players won’t even notice or care and this subplot will be wasted.

    It would not be difficult to get the PCs to go visit Toe.

    1) Kormatin is hitting Swynfaredian spies, and there is a good chance that there are Swynfaredian spies lurking in Toe. Eventually the other three PCs may become interested in hunting down Swynfaredian spies.
    2) Kormatin is the bastard son of a count’s daughter teenage daughter. She eventually got in a proper marriage as the second wife to Count Jerk Stepdad. Count Jerk Stepdad is a vassal to Duke Simba.
    3) Neshik the gnome is an alchemist and maker and seller of potions (and he gives away free potions to the needy). In any event, a major supplier of potion ingredients lives in Toe.
    4) Aranil the Elf is a minor woof elf noble. The wood elf’s home nation borders the province of Toe and the relations between wood elves and the people of Toe are pretty cordial. He could be roped in via a political contacts.
    5) A while ago, the PCs took down an organized crime cartel. One of the leaders escaped capture and fled into Toe. The PCs don't know this, but if they catch wind that their old enemy is here they might go after him.
    6) Toe has a lot of wild forests in it and occasionally monsters and baddies emerge from the forest attacking villagers requiring adventurers to ride in and save the day.


    I’m actually thinking it would be fun, just on its own merits for Count Jerk Stepdad to report potential spy activity and then be like “I didn’t know they would send you to investigate.”

    The hard part is figuring out a way to subtly hint at the Lion King intrigue going on in the background without being too obvious about it.


    Semi-related note, a thread a while ago suggested that what make a noble interesting is what they are struggling with, so I came up with the idea that every duke or major count should have an internal and external problem.

    Count of Rim: External problem is orcs extorting his subjects.

    Internal problem is that after the elderly duke buried his children he was broken by grief and is now unreasonably paranoid about the protection of his grandson (and sole heir). Causing him to ignore the orcs and lose the loyalty of his people.

    Duke of Upper Ankle: External problem was goblin raiders and monster attacks (now fixed by the PCs.

    Internal problem is that realm was cash strapped, causing the Duke's adult son to moonlight as brigand to rob the neighboring Duke. But the PCs have helped the Duke acquire a large store of coal and iron which has fixed their money problem, so the Duke's son decided to stop being a brigand (he is also aware that the PCs might catch him if they decide to go after the brigand.)

    Duke of Mid Ankle: External problem is well-informed brigands, unknowingly from Upper Ankle.

    Internal problem is the Duke is disliked by all the other dukes because he is a selfish miser. That is why a lord felt morally justified in robbing him.

    Duke of Lower Ankle: The Duke is also the king. External problem is a crime syndicate had taken over the capital city. PCs took apart the crime syndicate, so now the king only has to worry about his vassals external problems.

    Internal problem, the king's father was not a wise king and squandered the treasury. The new young king has introduced a lot of cost saving measures since his coronation including reducing royal luxuries and downsizing his staff. A lot of laid off staffers are pissed and possess courtly intrigue they are willing to sell to the highest bidder.

    Duke of Heel External problem is that Swynfaredia is probing them for a possible invasion. A long time ago, Swynfaredia tried to wipe out a royal line, but a few survivors fled here and Swynfaredia would like to go back and finish the job.

    Internal problem is that a great many of the Duke's vassals are from a noble family that really hates and fears Swynfaredia. One of his counts is way too aggressive and hawkish and is likely to provoke a war sooner by being brash. One of his counts is way too cowardly and is putting out feelers to see if he can build a golden parachute by surrendering early. These two counts are likely to fight and there is little the duke can do stop it because he is not aware of this internal struggle.

    Duke of Arch: External problem is that Swynfaredia is probing them for a possible invasion. Because the land has a lot of open fields, this would be the easiest route to invade, in practical terms.

    Internal problem is that the Duke of Arch is a lousy father. His eldest child is wife of the king. The duke lavishes so much attention on his daughter that he didn't notice that his eldest son and heir is a lazy moron, his second son is actively plotting to sell the nation out to Swynfaredia, and his youngest daughter has joined a depraved murder cult.

    Kormatin is actually in the process of fighting said murder cult.

    Duke of Toe: External problem is that Swynfaredia is probing them for a possible invasion. Because the land is rich in magical item ingredients, this land is probably what the Swynfaredians covet most.

    Internal problem is the aforementioned Lion King thing.
    Last edited by Scalenex; 2021-03-21 at 10:00 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Composer99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way to do it.

    If you want to avoid railroading the players, I don't know that there's too much you can do to rope them into "Uncle Scar's" intrigues. If they get involved, that's good news for "Duke Simba"; if not, well, he could be in for a rough time if war breaks out.

    If the PCs have a Sock-wide, or very nearly Sock-wide, reputation for being problem-solving adventurers, "Duke Simba" might reach out to them to help him with any potential Swynfaredian problems. If they like being Big Darn Heroes, that's one way to hook them. The other way is that a region that supplies magical item components is bound to be wealthy, so Toe can afford to pay them good money - or maybe even a few magical items.

    If they take the bait, once they're there, you can make a point of highlighting his youth, inexperience, and tendency to rely on advice from "Uncle Scar". If you're worried that's too subtle, maybe have a "Zazu"-style councillor who had the ear of the old duke, who has his suspicions regarding how "Duke Mufasa" died but doesn't necessarily suspect "Uncle Scar", and thinks the PCs, as somewhat unbound free agents, might be able to look into the matter.

    Then provide about a half-dozen ways to start linking "Duke Mufasa's" death back to "Uncle Scar":
    - If the PCs can get legal clearance to cast speak with dead on "Duke Mufasa", he can mention an odd taste to his wine and how he just wasn't feeling himself after having it - or his body has been mutilated so as to make casting speak with dead impossible - isn't that suspicious?
    - Unless the old Duke was silly enough to go out hunting by himself, his retainers and guards who went with him can mention he seemed unwell - "isn't that odd when you think about it? He was fit as a fiddle just that morning!"
    - The evil druid might be causing problems for other folk in Toe, and "Duke Simba" might even want them dealt with. Said druid might think "Uncle Scar" sent the PCs to kill them in order to cover his tracks, or they might offer incriminating information in exchange for letting them leave the area in peace.
    - If "Uncle Scar" didn't slip the poison into "Duke Mufasa's" wine himself, then maybe whomever did is now in possession of a guilty conscience. They're too scared to come forward publicly (because getting executed), but might be willing to discuss the matter in confidence and even point the PCs to an intermediary who can lead them to "Scar".
    - If the poison had to be imported or manufactured to order, whomever was involved in smuggling it into Toe or fashioning it could have been commissioned by "Uncle Scar" or by an intermediary working for him.
    - One of the problems "Duke Simba" wants their help with, which could be related to one of their own reasons for coming south, could put them on the trail of "Uncle Scar" - the cartel leader could have been involved with supplying "Uncle Scar" with the poison; the evil druid could be responsible for some of the monsters plaguing the land; the Swynfaredians have an incentive to destabilise the duchy and so are helping "Uncle Scar" on the down-low, which the PCs could discover after breaking up a spy ring - that sort of thing.
    ~ Composer99

    D&D 5e Campaign:
    Adventures in Eaphandra

    D&D 5e Homebrew:
    This can be found in my extended homebrew signature!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2014

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    Well, it seems to me that if combat breaks out against this foreign opponent and the would-be victim of these intrigues is on the front line, then the PCs might well find themselves rescuing him, intentionally or no, and that this grateful duke might invite them back to his duchy for a celebration during a lull in the fighting, allowing contact with various sources of suspicion.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    Thank you for the thoughtful replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    If you want to avoid railroading the players, I don't know that there's too much you can do to rope them into "Uncle Scar's" intrigues. If they get involved, that's good news for "Duke Simba"; if not, well, he could be in for a rough time if war breaks out.
    Quote Originally Posted by VoxRationis View Post
    Well, it seems to me that if combat breaks out against this foreign opponent and the would-be victim of these intrigues is on the front line, then the PCs might well find themselves rescuing him, intentionally or no, and that this grateful duke might invite them back to his duchy for a celebration during a lull in the fighting, allowing contact with various sources of suspicion.
    That is probably the most obvious. The player characters are very heroic sorts and would definitely try to help the young duke if they were on the battlefield at the same time. That's a good thing to do if the war turns hot. In the mean time, the nation is in the midst of a cold war, not a hot war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    If the PCs have a Sock-wide, or very nearly Sock-wide, reputation for being problem-solving adventurers, "Duke Simba" might reach out to them to help him with any potential Swynfaredian problems.
    Neshik the gnome is very charismatic, he's a religious icon (he is a rare type of favored soul called "Eclipsed Touched" that has political privileges' yet he never abuses his birthright), and a generous soul. When they travel, they are pretty much known as "Neshik the Eclipse Touched gnome and his stalwart companions" Much to my surprise, the other players are fine with this.

    Anyway, Neshik and the PCs spent a lot of time in Upper Ankle (the Duchy of Zimoz). Besides saving the villagers from many threats, Duke Zimoz invited them to the castle as a thank you and gave a donation to Neshik's temple. Then Neshik made sure to tell all the common people that Duke Zimoz is wise and just.

    They also helped the king out by busting a crime lord in the capital city, but they aren't near as close to the king as Duke Zimoz.

    When the PCs killed a lich in a dungeon the lich had a bunch of conventional treasure, gold, gems, etc, but he has also had literally tons of coal, iron, and lead. They helped Duke Zimoz's men recover these supplies, and the Duke rewarded the PCs by sharing a portion of his rarified stock of timber from a grove of holy trees (which are great for making magic bows).

    But the other Dukes have noticed that Neshik sings the praises of Duke Zimoz and the peasantry eat this up. So Neshik and company are warmly welcomed where ever they go.

    It is likely that Uncle Scar might come up with an excuse to not invite Neshik to dinner or if he does, be standoffish with them.

    That might stand out to the players as odd. Even Duke Frymar (mid ankle) was really nice to the PCs treating them to dinner, giving a modest donation to Neshik's temple, and a modest discount on some magical reagent trading. But the players wrote him off because all the other Dukes say Frymar is a selfish a-hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    If they like being Big Darn Heroes, that's one way to hook them. The other way is that a region that supplies magical item components is bound to be wealthy, so Toe can afford to pay them good money - or maybe even a few magical items.

    If they take the bait, once they're there, you can make a point of highlighting his youth, inexperience, and tendency to rely on advice from "Uncle Scar". If you're worried that's too subtle, maybe have a "Zazu"-style councillor who had the ear of the old duke, who has his suspicions regarding how "Duke Mufasa" died but doesn't necessarily suspect "Uncle Scar", and thinks the PCs, as somewhat unbound free agents, might be able to look into the matter.
    This is a good idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    Then provide about a half-dozen ways to start linking "Duke Mufasa's" death back to "Uncle Scar":
    - If the PCs can get legal clearance to cast speak with dead on "Duke Mufasa", he can mention an odd taste to his wine and how he just wasn't feeling himself after having it - or his body has been mutilated so as to make casting speak with dead impossible - isn't that suspicious?
    My RPG system is still in beta. I am not sure if I want Speak with Dead to exist. But I do have a spell called "Deathsight" that lets a caster see the last few minutes before the subject died. It would take a witness who knows animal behavior very well to spot something is amiss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    - Unless the old Duke was silly enough to go out hunting by himself, his retainers and guards who went with him can mention he seemed unwell - "isn't that odd when you think about it? He was fit as a fiddle just that morning!"
    That's a very good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    - The evil druid might be causing problems for other folk in Toe, and "Duke Simba" might even want them dealt with. Said druid might think "Uncle Scar" sent the PCs to kill them in order to cover his tracks, or they might offer incriminating information in exchange for letting them leave the area in peace.
    That's also a good idea. Especially since I was going to create some evil druid types as a throwaway C-list villain of the week for something unrelated. There could be some overlap in the groups.

    "Evil druid" was a bit of an over simplification. My RPG does not have character classes, everything is a points by system. In this case "Evil druid" means "Priest or priestess of Greymoria the dark magic goddess who focuses on wilderness based skills and spells."

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    - If "Uncle Scar" didn't slip the poison into "Duke Mufasa's" wine himself, then maybe whomever did is now in possession of a guilty conscience. They're too scared to come forward publicly (because getting executed), but might be willing to discuss the matter in confidence and even point the PCs to an intermediary who can lead them to "Scar".

    - If the poison had to be imported or manufactured to order, whomever was involved in smuggling it into Toe or fashioning it could have been commissioned by "Uncle Scar" or by an intermediary working for him.
    I figure the person that administered the poison was another confederate of Greymoria, the magic goddess as was the person who manufactured the poison in the first place was also a Greymoria priest or priestess.

    I should note that everyone in my world has the same nine gods but there are lots of different religious sect based on the "proper" way to worship the nine gods and the followers of Greymoria are a fractious lot indeed.

    The player characters are loosely allied with one of Greymoria's less murderous factions, so that's another inroad I could use. The group allied to the PCs was allied because they shared a common enemy, other than that that they had no common ground. This group is probably unaware of their spiritual brothers and sisters being involved in a ducal assassination but they are aware that this group recently acquired a lot of poisons so if they bothered they could put two and two together.


    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    - One of the problems "Duke Simba" wants their help with, which could be related to one of their own reasons for coming south, could put them on the trail of "Uncle Scar" - the cartel leader could have been involved with supplying "Uncle Scar" with the poison; the evil druid could be responsible for some of the monsters plaguing the land; the Swynfaredians have an incentive to destabilise the duchy and so are helping "Uncle Scar" on the down-low, which the PCs could discover after breaking up a spy ring - that sort of thing.
    That's got a lot of moving parts, but it could work.
    Last edited by Scalenex; 2021-03-26 at 10:51 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Composer99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for assuming you were discussing D&D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    - One of the problems "Duke Simba" wants their help with, which could be related to one of their own reasons for coming south, could put them on the trail of "Uncle Scar" - the cartel leader could have been involved with supplying "Uncle Scar" with the poison; the evil druid could be responsible for some of the monsters plaguing the land; the Swynfaredians have an incentive to destabilise the duchy and so are helping "Uncle Scar" on the down-low, which the PCs could discover after breaking up a spy ring - that sort of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scalenex View Post
    That's got a lot of moving parts, but it could work.
    I wasn't entirely clear - each one of those things is an independent problem "Duke Simba" could be looking for help with; they're not meant to be tied together (unless you want to tie them together, that is).
    ~ Composer99

    D&D 5e Campaign:
    Adventures in Eaphandra

    D&D 5e Homebrew:
    This can be found in my extended homebrew signature!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    As for getting the PCs in the right location:

    How time-critical is it that they arrive there? Is it, basically, the next mission they should be focused on? Or is it just one of the plot points you're setting up, for when they arrive? If it is time sensitive and the PCs should be there soon - possibly for plot reasons, due to war looming - then shortly after they northern party quashes the orcs would be the best time. Northern Rimworld is fairly secure after such a fact, and Duke Rim expresses his concerns with the state of Toeland: The former duke recently died, the current duke is not even of age yet, and there is a current threat of invasion. That sounds like plenty of reason for the party to move in that direction as the next goal. You've already mentioned a reason for Kormatin to go meet up with the party, too.

    If time is less relevant, then the emphasis on them moving on to Toeland can be less pressing. Bringing up the recent duke's death and the on-goings in Toeland will eventually lead the party in that direction, even if they take come detours in between. There can even be tidbits sprinkled in along the way, such as talk about being mauled by a boar, the youth of the current acting duke, maybe even the current duke's uncle (Mr. Scar) being overly harsh towards the guards who were out with the former duke that day. Give some details before the party even arrives, possibly even setting up how the players might react to different characters.

    As for what to do in Toeland:

    There seems to be two major goals which the party will have when arriving, even if they don't know it yet. One will be to reach and protect the young duke Simba. The other will be to detect the attempts of uncle Scar towards pushing for Simba's death. The first would be expected to be easy, especially given how other lords have been treating the party. That said, things rarely go as expected.

    You've mentioned Uncle Scar being stand-offish towards the party. It might be interesting to make getting close to Duke Simba being part of the challenge as well. After all, if Uncle Scar wants to keep the party away and young Duke Simba has taken to listening closely to Uncle's advice, then it wouldn't take much for Uncle Scar to start putting thoughts of the party being dangerous into Simba's head. Perhaps Uncle Scar knows some rumors or events that didn't turn out well for the party, and has been using those examples to make them look bad; "Do be careful what you say around these people. Remember when Princess Leia got kidnapped under their watch?" Or perhaps Uncle Scar has been doubling-down on the strong independent paranoia, implying that relying on the party too much would make the Duke seem weak.

    Regardless, it might be interesting to make getting close to the Duke as part of the challenge here. Of course, the party should have access to the Duke and be involved in important decisions. (It would be rather dull if they were just excluded.) But having Duke Simba doubting the party's wisdom or insisting on keeping things to himself be a challenge which the party needs to overcome - ask the players to offer new ideas, challenge bad ones, or even go succeed on tasks themselves to get the Duke's trust. This would make Uncle Scar's stand-offishness less obvious when both are doing the same, and can point some suspicion towards Uncle when the party finally gets the Duke to open up and explain the advice he's been getting.

    As for figuring out the Uncle, while the "get to know the Duke and see how bad the Uncle is" is one method available, it certainly shouldn't be the only one. I've mentioned the Duke being harsh on the soldiers who were with the former Duke that day. Perhaps they've had a rough time and have been removed from active duty - because of their failure, they are told, but really because Uncle Scar is trying to make them disappear from public view so they don't talk about that day. Trying to locate information in town or talk to the town guard to meet with these people would be another route, with the official reason of: "They've been released from duty, no clue where they are now," being what Uncle Scar gives.

    Divination to detect the effects of magic on the boar's remains could point towards magic use having effected it, directing inquiry toward the 'evil druid' character involved. The meat itself was probably eaten - likely at the old duke's wake - but the pelt would still be around. It's likely tucked away in a storeroom somewhere, someplace where Duke Simba or some of the castle staff would definitely know where it is - it's not out on display due to what it represents for Duke Simba. It would take some convincing for the party to have access to it and be free to cast magic on it. How it plays from that would depend on what the divination can tell the party. If it just points towards magic from Greymoria, then they could end up investigating their own local organization (possibly discovering the 'druid' sect there). If it points towards nature transformation magic, then they would need some sort of direction to find out who would have that sort of spellcasting.

    As for the poisoner approach, that would be more difficult. It might be easier to imply that a specific NPC was focused on getting the old Duke overly drunk rather than poisoned. (Unless that NPC is the poisoner, of course.) Perhaps the same NPC was the one who organized specifically which guards the old Duke would have with him that day - some new recruits and an exceptionally loyal guard, all convenient to remove from duty. Finding and talking to the guards that day would give some suspicious results in each one being hand-picked for that particular outing. And if you do want the NPC to be the poisoner, then they should have some sort of connections or odd skills which would point towards being able to put something into a drink.

    As for hiding Uncle Scar's involvement:

    I'm not sure if you need to hide his involvement, as much as hide connections of guilt for him. Especially if you are making Scar and Simba stand-offish from the start, the party is going to be suspecting him anyways right from the beginning. The tricky part shouldn't be pointing out the bad guy; it's figuring out what to do with him with his position that's the trouble. Duke Simba isn't going to throw his uncle out, even over some bad advice. He'll need some sort of hard, linked proof that Uncle Scar is causing trouble. Either this can be direct contact between Scar and Druid, or something on Druid's person linking the two, or some connection between Scar and Poisoner NPC, or just something. Even if Duke Simba trusts the party, this is a bit different than throwing Uncle Scar in jail because they don't like the guy.

    Have the evil Druid character and the NPC Poisoner character (and represented above) as potential links seems like a good way of doing it. The PCs could either find the Druid (getting a confession or physical proof from them) or sniff out the NPC Poisoner (who, being high-ranking, would be connected to Uncle Scar). Or perhaps the party could find out conflicting or hazardous military orders being put out by Uncle Scar which put Duke Simba at great risk. Thinks like ordering reinforcements to the wrong area or positioning supplies in easily-ambushed locations. It'd be likely that once the party arrives and starts getting close to Duke Simba, that Uncle Scar starts acting more risky in trying to engineer a military "accident" for the young duke. Such actions wouldn't get Scar thrown in prison, but it would definitely get him removed from giving Duke Simba any further advice.

    Sorry if this got a bit wordy. I'm more throwing a bunch of ideas around, not going back over all that and revising ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    There are no bad ideas, just bad execution.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Thank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
    The full set is here.



    Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
    from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread



    A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
    original image

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2021

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    You shouldn't rope the characters into anything. Ever.

    Check out the Dungeon World handbook. You can google it the base rules are free. The GM section is the thing to read. Make organizations, some fronts, and just let them build the story. If everyone just stops talking or looks at you, make something happen. It can be story related if ya like. Obviously it's fun to tell a story. But don't plan anything. A plan ruins the game for the whole party.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Emerald City, Oz
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    A few thoughts,

    The poison was not available locally. It is actually a rare toxin from a creature only found in Swynfaredian lands. Just another way Uncle Scar plans to prod Duke Simba onto the front lines, if this information ever comes to light. Even better if heroic outsiders discover this information, as it independently validates Scar's story.

    Having Uncle Scar hire the party to kill the marauding druid as "an agent of Swynfaredia". Both ties up a loose end, and gives further credence to Scar's story. Even if the druid tells the players Scar hired him to kill Mufasa, Scar can brush it away as "lies from an enemy agent trying to sow dissent and confusion".

    Have an actual agent of Swynfaredia get caught, and have Scar turn up immediately and slip a vial of the same poison into their possession while taking them into custody. Let the players find it while searching the spy.

    Scar can play the long game, but never miss a chance to shift things to his favour. If he can get the players to trust, if not like, him it would make his plans much easier.
    "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
    ~ Ernest Hemingway

    2021 2022 2023 2024

    Dwarf Magus (Deep Marshal) spell list

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post

    I wasn't entirely clear - each one of those things is an independent problem "Duke Simba" could be looking for help with; they're not meant to be tied together (unless you want to tie them together, that is).

    I do tend to like to tie things together.

    Quote Originally Posted by neceros View Post
    You shouldn't rope the characters into anything. Ever.

    Check out the Dungeon World handbook. You can google it the base rules are free. The GM section is the thing to read. Make organizations, some fronts, and just let them build the story. If everyone just stops talking or looks at you, make something happen. It can be story related if ya like. Obviously it's fun to tell a story. But don't plan anything. A plan ruins the game for the whole party.
    I am trying to avoid railroading the players. I tried to make the nation of Fumaya (Sock) into a sand box. Each area of the kingdom has problems that adventurers can solve. The PCs are free to come and go where they wish and if they get stuck, I will toss them a clue to one of the nearby problems.

    I just asked that if the players want to leave Fumaya, they tell me in advance because Fumaya is where most of my story seeds are planted. Kormatin did make a brief trip into Swynfaredia to buy some magical detection items from the Swynfaredia black market which was fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    As for getting the PCs in the right location:

    How time-critical is it that they arrive there? Is it, basically, the next mission they should be focused on? Or is it just one of the plot points you're setting up, for when they arrive? If it is time sensitive and the PCs should be there soon - possibly for plot reasons, due to war looming - then shortly after they northern party quashes the orcs would be the best time. Northern Rimworld is fairly secure after such a fact, and Duke Rim expresses his concerns with the state of Toeland: The former duke recently died, the current duke is not even of age yet, and there is a current threat of invasion. That sounds like plenty of reason for the party to move in that direction as the next goal. You've already mentioned a reason for Kormatin to go meet up with the party, too.
    It's not time critical. Kormatin is going to join up with the rest of the party as soon as Covid allows us to do this. In the meantime, it just so happens it a lot easier for me to meet with Kormatin's player than the rest of my PCs, so he can keep enjoying solo adventures. Also, Kormatin's player is a late joiner so he needs to catch up on experience relative to the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    If time is less relevant, then the emphasis on them moving on to Toeland can be less pressing. Bringing up the recent duke's death and the on-goings in Toeland will eventually lead the party in that direction, even if they take come detours in between. There can even be tidbits sprinkled in along the way, such as talk about being mauled by a boar, the youth of the current acting duke, maybe even the current duke's uncle (Mr. Scar) being overly harsh towards the guards who were out with the former duke that day. Give some details before the party even arrives, possibly even setting up how the players might react to different characters.
    That's a good idea. In the meantime Kormatin is dealing with another Duke's problem. The Duke of Arch's youngest daughter is a rebellious teen and joined an evil cult. Right now Kormatin is fighting said evil cult. Assuming he wins, he will probably capture the duke's daughter. This will have fun fall out.

    It'll be easy enough to bring up Duke Simba (and the other Dukes) in casual conversation assuming Kormatin keeps moving about in upper circles. He is probably likely to visit Mom and Count Jerkass Stepdad soon.

    Assuming Kormatin survives this, exposing the Duke of Arch's daughter as an evil cultist will probably put him on guard in the courts of any other duke.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    As for what to do in Toeland:

    There seems to be two major goals which the party will have when arriving, even if they don't know it yet. One will be to reach and protect the young duke Simba. The other will be to detect the attempts of uncle Scar towards pushing for Simba's death. The first would be expected to be easy, especially given how other lords have been treating the party. That said, things rarely go as expected.
    Indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    You've mentioned Uncle Scar being stand-offish towards the party. It might be interesting to make getting close to Duke Simba being part of the challenge as well. After all, if Uncle Scar wants to keep the party away and young Duke Simba has taken to listening closely to Uncle's advice, then it wouldn't take much for Uncle Scar to start putting thoughts of the party being dangerous into Simba's head. Perhaps Uncle Scar knows some rumors or events that didn't turn out well for the party, and has been using those examples to make them look bad; "Do be careful what you say around these people. Remember when Princess Leia got kidnapped under their watch?" Or perhaps Uncle Scar has been doubling-down on the strong independent paranoia, implying that relying on the party too much would make the Duke seem weak.

    Regardless, it might be interesting to make getting close to the Duke as part of the challenge here. Of course, the party should have access to the Duke and be involved in important decisions. (It would be rather dull if they were just excluded.) But having Duke Simba doubting the party's wisdom or insisting on keeping things to himself be a challenge which the party needs to overcome - ask the players to offer new ideas, challenge bad ones, or even go succeed on tasks themselves to get the Duke's trust. This would make Uncle Scar's stand-offishness less obvious when both are doing the same, and can point some suspicion towards Uncle when the party finally gets the Duke to open up and explain the advice he's been getting.
    These are good ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    As for figuring out the Uncle, while the "get to know the Duke and see how bad the Uncle is" is one method available, it certainly shouldn't be the only one. I've mentioned the Duke being harsh on the soldiers who were with the former Duke that day. Perhaps they've had a rough time and have been removed from active duty - because of their failure, they are told, but really because Uncle Scar is trying to make them disappear from public view so they don't talk about that day. Trying to locate information in town or talk to the town guard to meet with these people would be another route, with the official reason of: "They've been released from duty, no clue where they are now," being what Uncle Scar gives.
    This is also a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Divination to detect the effects of magic on the boar's remains could point towards magic use having effected it, directing inquiry toward the 'evil druid' character involved. The meat itself was probably eaten - likely at the old duke's wake - but the pelt would still be around. It's likely tucked away in a storeroom somewhere, someplace where Duke Simba or some of the castle staff would definitely know where it is - it's not out on display due to what it represents for Duke Simba. It would take some convincing for the party to have access to it and be free to cast magic on it. How it plays from that would depend on what the divination can tell the party. If it just points towards magic from Greymoria, then they could end up investigating their own local organization (possibly discovering the 'druid' sect there). If it points towards nature transformation magic, then they would need some sort of direction to find out who would have that sort of spellcasting.
    This sort of divination magic exists in my world, but it's not common. The PCs don't have much divination magic themselves. Kormatin can detect fresh recent magic in a general sense, and both Kormatin and the other PCs bought a magical wand to see invisible characters with. Apparently it only takes throwing an invisible opponent at the PCs once to make the players say "NEVER AGAIN!"

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    As for the poisoner approach, that would be more difficult. It might be easier to imply that a specific NPC was focused on getting the old Duke overly drunk rather than poisoned. (Unless that NPC is the poisoner, of course.) Perhaps the same NPC was the one who organized specifically which guards the old Duke would have with him that day - some new recruits and an exceptionally loyal guard, all convenient to remove from duty. Finding and talking to the guards that day would give some suspicious results in each one being hand-picked for that particular outing. And if you do want the NPC to be the poisoner, then they should have some sort of connections or odd skills which would point towards being able to put something into a drink.
    Reasonable ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    As for hiding Uncle Scar's involvement:

    I'm not sure if you need to hide his involvement, as much as hide connections of guilt for him. Especially if you are making Scar and Simba stand-offish from the start, the party is going to be suspecting him anyways right from the beginning. The tricky part shouldn't be pointing out the bad guy; it's figuring out what to do with him with his position that's the trouble. Duke Simba isn't going to throw his uncle out, even over some bad advice. He'll need some sort of hard, linked proof that Uncle Scar is causing trouble. Either this can be direct contact between Scar and Druid, or something on Druid's person linking the two, or some connection between Scar and Poisoner NPC, or just something. Even if Duke Simba trusts the party, this is a bit different than throwing Uncle Scar in jail because they don't like the guy.
    Indeed. Though funnily enough, the daughter of the duke who is a secretly an evil cultist openly insulted Kormatin during a banquet for his parentage. "It's great that you are catching Swynfaredian spies now.
    We should send all of Fumaya's bastard children to the Khemra monastery so they can come back as elite warriors for the state. "(Kormatin did not respond at the time but her family was shocked on his behalf). If he catches her, she is going to claim that she is an innocent victim of circumstance and that Kormatin is framing her because he is angry at her.

    Have the evil Druid character and the NPC Poisoner character (and represented above) as potential links seems like a good way of doing it. The PCs could either find the Druid (getting a confession or physical proof from them) or sniff out the NPC Poisoner (who, being high-ranking, would be connected to Uncle Scar). Or perhaps the party could find out conflicting or hazardous military orders being put out by Uncle Scar which put Duke Simba at great risk. Thinks like ordering reinforcements to the wrong area or positioning suppl
    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    ies in easily-ambushed locations. It'd be likely that once the party arrives and starts getting close to Duke Simba, that Uncle Scar starts acting more risky in trying to engineer a military "accident" for the young duke. Such actions wouldn't get Scar thrown in prison, but it would definitely get him removed from giving Duke Simba any further advice.

    Sorry if this got a bit wordy. I'm more throwing a bunch of ideas around, not going back over all that and revising ideas.
    It is a bit wordy, but your words are good words, so no complaints.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    I'd been thinking about this a bit after my last post. I think that, in order to keep things simple and organized, it's best to list out everyone and how they're related to the plot. It would be easier to set up plot connections and prepare the situations with everybody who will be involve distinctly listed - it means less reliance on random NPCs to do they work, when you already have a familiar NPC for the party to go to for it. Right now, important NPCs are:

    Uncle (Scar)
    Young Duke (Simba)
    Old ex-Duke (Mufasa)
    Poisoner
    Druid
    Old Loyal Guard
    New Guards (the ones who were also there)
    castle staff
    military staff

    If the PCs decide to try directly communicating with the Young Duke, then they'd need to deal with the bad advice he's been receiving from Uncle and his avoidance of the party as a result. Advice like "Always make sure you're making the last decision" or "Don't back down from poor choices, it makes you look weak" or "Maintain an aloofness from outsiders with military concerns" would be the sorts of things that Uncle would've been saying, to keep the Young Duke avoiding good support in the military endeavor. The PCs could be around, but not necessarily feel like they're influencing things. The way to do this would be through simple quests - the military staff and generals would advice that helping with the military effort would gain the Young Duke's trust, and that's how it would work. The fairly straightforward approach. As time goes on and the situation improves, the Uncle should work harder at sabotaging the military efforts, such as assigning troops to the wrong locations or putting supply caravans in dangerous locations. After enough of this (and the party helping out make things right) it will be enough that the Young Duke finally just removes Uncle from any military command - not the optimal situation, but one that eliminates the current threat. Afterwards, the kingdom goes back to its non-aggressive state and things return to "normal", although the Uncle still being around means that there will be another incident bringing them back.

    If they want to find out what happened to the Old ex-Duke, then the story is that the Poisoner was spending a lot of time with preparation before the Old ex-Duke went out of his fatal hunt. The Poisoner had specifically selected the Old Loyal Guard (expected) and the New Guards (unusual) for attending the Old ex-Duke. The Poisoner had also, strangely, been attending the kitchen staff at the time as well, something that he normally wouldn't bother with. The Poisoner himself works under Uncle, frequently doing work under Uncle's name. After the Old ex-Duke's death, Uncle publicly called out the guards who were with him at the time and removed them from castle employment, meaning that they'll be found somewhere in town. This is stuff which the castle staff would know and be willing to rumor about, although perhaps not in the open or within earshot of the Poisoner/Uncle. The staff would also be able to point out when there New Guards are located at now. Tracking down the New Guards would give the party information on where to find the Old Loyal Guard, who's been helping them find employment in the city since he feels a bit responsible for them. As for the Old Loyal Guard, he'd have more information on the whole situation, including that the Old ex-Duke seemed suddenly "sick" that evening and the Poisoner's strange actions before heading out, and how odd it was that the rest of the guards were new recruits for the Old ex-Duke. He'd also be able to tell the party about how Uncle always was suspicious, not agreeing with the Old ex-Duke, and how the actions of the current Young Duke don't line up with how he was before the death. Old Loyal Guard suspects that Uncle is influencing Young Duke for some reason.

    (As for the obvious question: Young Duke will be believing Uncle that the Old Loyal Guard wasn't competent and so won't listen to his suspicions, so that's a dead end.)

    I was thinking that the castle staff could have some other uses, pointing out the boar pelt for example; but if that magic doesn't work, then it would be better to have the boar still alive as a way to implicate the Druid. Somehow. They castle staff might have rumors about the Druid and the Poisoner having hushed meetings in isolated corners of the castle at night, though.

    For the Druid, they're a member of the local church, although their cult-like stance may not widely be recognized. Uncle would've promised Druid some reward for their involvement, probably helping Druid attain a high-ranking position in the church for their support. As a result, Druid has been acting fairly high-and-mighty around religious duties, feeling like they are already entitled to their position and treating the lower ranking members poorly. They've also had unusual absences (related to the meet-ups with the Poisoner) and don't feel like explaining themselves to anybody. This should put Druid on high suspicion by the party if they stop by the church and talk with the people there. Given the reputation of Neshik and Kormatin, also being involved in the church, some may directly try to get a meeting with them to enlist their involvement. Druid has been meeting with Poisoner in secret (as the contact point with Uncle) and right now, tensions between Druid and Uncle are probably being stressed. Uncle can't move to enable Druid into a higher position until Young Duke is dead, and Uncle wants to try to distance himself from Druid due to their unusual activity. For Druid's situation, they might attempt to take things into their own hands and enhance another animal to attack the Young Duke - if nothing else happens before then.

    Past that, I'd recommend trying to think up more connections and more ways the characters can be connected, and so more ways that Uncle's plot could fall apart, once the PCs start unraveling things. Perhaps Druid has a letter between Uncle-Poisoner telling the Poisoner to visit the Druid to collect some poisons, with neither realizing that Druid had swiped the letter. Perhaps Uncle is blackmailing some people in the military to force his influence, and the PCs would need to help the blackmail victims to get more information. Anything that gets more information to the PCs and allows them to make the correct connections would improve the scenario, and just add more depth to everything that is going on as a result.
    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    There are no bad ideas, just bad execution.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Thank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
    The full set is here.



    Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
    from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread



    A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
    original image

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    I'd been thinking about this a bit after my last post. I think that, in order to keep things simple and organized, it's best to list out everyone and how they're related to the plot. It would be easier to set up plot connections and prepare the situations with everybody who will be involve distinctly listed - it means less reliance on random NPCs to do they work, when you already have a familiar NPC for the party to go to for it. Right now, important NPCs are:

    Uncle (Scar)
    Young Duke (Simba)
    Old ex-Duke (Mufasa)
    Poisoner
    Druid
    Old Loyal Guard
    New Guards (the ones who were also there)
    castle staff
    military staff

    If the PCs decide to try directly communicating with the Young Duke, then they'd need to deal with the bad advice he's been receiving from Uncle and his avoidance of the party as a result. Advice like "Always make sure you're making the last decision" or "Don't back down from poor choices, it makes you look weak" or "Maintain an aloofness from outsiders with military concerns" would be the sorts of things that Uncle would've been saying, to keep the Young Duke avoiding good support in the military endeavor. The PCs could be around, but not necessarily feel like they're influencing things. The way to do this would be through simple quests - the military staff and generals would advice that helping with the military effort would gain the Young Duke's trust, and that's how it would work. The fairly straightforward approach. As time goes on and the situation improves, the Uncle should work harder at sabotaging the military efforts, such as assigning troops to the wrong locations or putting supply caravans in dangerous locations. After enough of this (and the party helping out make things right) it will be enough that the Young Duke finally just removes Uncle from any military command - not the optimal situation, but one that eliminates the current threat. Afterwards, the kingdom goes back to its non-aggressive state and things return to "normal", although the Uncle still being around means that there will be another incident bringing them back.

    If they want to find out what happened to the Old ex-Duke, then the story is that the Poisoner was spending a lot of time with preparation before the Old ex-Duke went out of his fatal hunt. The Poisoner had specifically selected the Old Loyal Guard (expected) and the New Guards (unusual) for attending the Old ex-Duke. The Poisoner had also, strangely, been attending the kitchen staff at the time as well, something that he normally wouldn't bother with. The Poisoner himself works under Uncle, frequently doing work under Uncle's name. After the Old ex-Duke's death, Uncle publicly called out the guards who were with him at the time and removed them from castle employment, meaning that they'll be found somewhere in town. This is stuff which the castle staff would know and be willing to rumor about, although perhaps not in the open or within earshot of the Poisoner/Uncle. The staff would also be able to point out when there New Guards are located at now. Tracking down the New Guards would give the party information on where to find the Old Loyal Guard, who's been helping them find employment in the city since he feels a bit responsible for them. As for the Old Loyal Guard, he'd have more information on the whole situation, including that the Old ex-Duke seemed suddenly "sick" that evening and the Poisoner's strange actions before heading out, and how odd it was that the rest of the guards were new recruits for the Old ex-Duke. He'd also be able to tell the party about how Uncle always was suspicious, not agreeing with the Old ex-Duke, and how the actions of the current Young Duke don't line up with how he was before the death. Old Loyal Guard suspects that Uncle is influencing Young Duke for some reason.

    (As for the obvious question: Young Duke will be believing Uncle that the Old Loyal Guard wasn't competent and so won't listen to his suspicions, so that's a dead end.)

    I was thinking that the castle staff could have some other uses, pointing out the boar pelt for example; but if that magic doesn't work, then it would be better to have the boar still alive as a way to implicate the Druid. Somehow. They castle staff might have rumors about the Druid and the Poisoner having hushed meetings in isolated corners of the castle at night, though.

    For the Druid, they're a member of the local church, although their cult-like stance may not widely be recognized. Uncle would've promised Druid some reward for their involvement, probably helping Druid attain a high-ranking position in the church for their support. As a result, Druid has been acting fairly high-and-mighty around religious duties, feeling like they are already entitled to their position and treating the lower ranking members poorly. They've also had unusual absences (related to the meet-ups with the Poisoner) and don't feel like explaining themselves to anybody. This should put Druid on high suspicion by the party if they stop by the church and talk with the people there. Given the reputation of Neshik and Kormatin, also being involved in the church, some may directly try to get a meeting with them to enlist their involvement. Druid has been meeting with Poisoner in secret (as the contact point with Uncle) and right now, tensions between Druid and Uncle are probably being stressed. Uncle can't move to enable Druid into a higher position until Young Duke is dead, and Uncle wants to try to distance himself from Druid due to their unusual activity. For Druid's situation, they might attempt to take things into their own hands and enhance another animal to attack the Young Duke - if nothing else happens before then.

    Past that, I'd recommend trying to think up more connections and more ways the characters can be connected, and so more ways that Uncle's plot could fall apart, once the PCs start unraveling things. Perhaps Druid has a letter between Uncle-Poisoner telling the Poisoner to visit the Druid to collect some poisons, with neither realizing that Druid had swiped the letter. Perhaps Uncle is blackmailing some people in the military to force his influence, and the PCs would need to help the blackmail victims to get more information. Anything that gets more information to the PCs and allows them to make the correct connections would improve the scenario, and just add more depth to everything that is going on as a result.
    That's all excellent advice for organizing things. Due to Covid and the general situation of all my friends my friends have adult responsibilities, it looks like I have lots and lots of time to plan things before my next session.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)

    Default Re: Should I rope the PCs into a ducal intrigue and how would the best way be to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by neceros View Post
    You shouldn't rope the characters into anything. Ever.

    Check out the Dungeon World handbook. You can google it the base rules are free. The GM section is the thing to read. Make organizations, some fronts, and just let them build the story. If everyone just stops talking or looks at you, make something happen. It can be story related if ya like. Obviously it's fun to tell a story. But don't plan anything. A plan ruins the game for the whole party.
    I think the implication is how to give the players enough rope to hang themselves, so to speak.

    My advice is attach Duke Simba to something the players will inherently want to do, and don't spring an inevitably surprising betrayal on them using Duke Simba. The character is legitimately as you present him

    If you're actually basing Duke Scar on Scar then we're telegraphed pretty early he's the bad guy. The players should be able to figure this out, even if he doesn't have an Evil Goatee. The trick is to get them to realize he's up to no good, but be unable to prove it to Duke Scar.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •