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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    It's interesting that we have two different takes on using psi dice as a central class feature. It's going to be difficult to avoid comparing the two.
    Since mine is "done" and the mechanical underpinnings won't be influenced, I'm interested to see how the Wilder is shaking out.

    (I've settled on how Psionics is going to work, subclass features and any obvious oversight in power availability are mostly where I'll change things at this point).

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Since mine is "done" and the mechanical underpinnings won't be influenced, I'm interested to see how the Wilder is shaking out.
    Been drowning in a morass of other forums, binge-reading fanfics, and my usual issues with ad-hocing my way to filling tables making for murderous writer's block even for basic concepting like I'm more-or-less trapped in due to my attention span making detailed comparisons beyond my own ability, and trying to ask about the comparison points has not gotten anywhere. Inability to get comparisons breaking down where the numbers are coming from being the big thing.

    Will probably get another round of edits done tomorrow (started them up already, slightly), it's way too bloody late to be putting up with my total lack of workflow.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Feedback is going to be piecemeal and somewhat all over the place... but hope to make a start. First class and first impressions...

    Spellslinger

    Between the first and third reading this has gone up a lot in my estimation and I like it a lot better than I did on the first read through.

    So my reading of the class is that you are focussed on blasting - the class spell list seems mainly (with some exceptions) to be damaging spells or defensive spells.

    I think you have possibly hit the same problem that I did with having a blasing option:

    1) Blasting isn't always the best use of spell slots
    2) Focussing on blasting means less versatility and the loss in power that entails
    3) Blasting spells don't really scale well as an action usage

    Fixing this then means you need AWESOME class features to compensate compared to other spellcasters.

    I think that you have done this very smoothly. The 2/3rds casting progression means the gap between this and a full caster is actually pretty small. The gap opens up more at higher levels so you can dodge having to put too much in the lower levels and making it a dangerous dip for multiclassing.

    Dex as the casting stat kind of makes sense for the class description but it doesn't really ring true for some spells. Throwing a firebolt makes sense with dex. Determining the con save for a moonbeam spell... less so. I wonder if you might keep Int as the casting stat but give an ability to allow dex to be used for any spell that uses an attack roll? That way you can still have a defensively strong caster if you want to go down that route (and all the advantage that can come from beeing good at hiding etc.).

    Critical cast: Fine and it is not overpowered on average. My worry comes from a fun perspective; you have a non-trivial chance of just ending some fights in a way that critical hits on attacks don't as spells tend to pack more max damage per effect. Add to this that any magic resistance or legendary saves may feel doubly frustrating from this ability. I kind of wouldn't sweat it as a small ability, but just my thinking.

    Aptitude - will look seperately

    Spell sling - If I am reading this right, this is nuts. So you can cast Aganazaar's Scorcher (for example) from a second level spell slot. Then cast it again using the same slot and the same action... for 6d8 damage in an area of effect from a level 2 spell slot... Hit level 7 and you can fireball twice from a level 3 spell slot for 16d6 damage? Then maybe even add subclass bonusses on top. This seems so over the top and dominating in Tier 2 that I assume I am misreading it.

    Fire at Will - Unlimited shield and absorb elements? I think this is a bit over the top in this regard. Maybe if it were limited to spells that need an action to cast it might be OK? Actually it is still probably a bit strong.

    Limit breaker - only once per day, but it is still potentially pretty dangerous, not least because spell sling lets you cast two spells out of this slot. At the level you get it you can then be chromatic orbing or burning hands for 34d6 damage. Still, not as egregious as magic missile for obscene damage... and with the ability on classes like the hexblade/hexblade's curse to bust any instance of damage this could be exceptionally dangerous. Also, bear in mind that the Ravnica backgrounds and Eberron races can add unexpected spells to the class spell list so you might need to be somewhat prepared. Even something bland like Armour of Agathys from Mark of Warding dwarf becomes a real powerhouse. Or how about sleep for 25d8 worth of creatures falling asleep? Be careful of multiclassing or alternative spell lists is what I am saying.

    Arcane wellspring - well everything is pretty broken at this level so there is a lot of lattitude. This is probably fine. Still, if you pick up spells like spiritual weapon from another class then you have a pretty fun massively powerful summoned weapon.

    Limit smasher... hmm. Not much more powerful than 1st level spells on the spell list... but there are potentially some dangerous options available by multiclassing or from alternative spell list that could be good.

    Limitless. Yeah, its powerful, but you need some spells that are crazy upcast.



    Subclasses

    Magneticist
    A very cool subclass as a theme. I think there is a lot of fun stuff you could do here in play.

    Spell list seems good but lightning arrow? I don't really get why this spell?

    Magnetic propulstion: is this intended to let your spells of radius self be duplicated on allies? Or that you can pick an ally instead? If the latter then it is merely a very good ability. If the former then this is very much over the top.

    Magnetic levitation: This looked pretty innocuous at first, but letting you levitate and drop people from great heights is potentially a bit unbalanced.

    Magnetic Repulsion: When it gets used, this wil be a very powerful ability. It does rely on ranged weapon attacks being made.

    Magnetic Impact: This is very open to interpretation. Can you push someone down stairs and they take Int damage every step of the way? It is like a free concentration free spike growth.


    Thermalist
    I worry about this as it focusses on two damage types that a whole class of fiends are resistant to. I mean, I guess its no worse that something like a fire focussed dragon sorcerer... except you get many fewer options for non damage spells to interact with the enemy.

    The multi element spells on the spell list don't scream thermal to me either - a mix of hot and cold spells would seem a better fit?

    Prolonged exposure - at higher levels the extra damage is less likely to be critical, at lower levels this will be very powerful. Given the scope to have spells hit multiple creatures, and given there is no concentration need, no activation cost, limit to uses per day etc. it seems very strong.

    Antipodal Anihilation - This has me really worried about my interpretation of spell sling - hit with one spell then your next spell on the same turn deals double damage? Also, is there a time limit for this? I minute? A day? Till the next attack?

    Thermal Balancing: How is this supposed to work with damage immunity? With saves for half damage? Temporary HP etc. Other damage reduction?

    Temperature compensation: In reality this is probably just immunity to two elements. THe number of enemies that can do both damage type is pretty limited. Not that this is a problem; it is a nice thematic ability and immunity at this level is... a bit early but not that egregious.



    Vulcanist

    Another cool subclass and it does somewhat take the class in a different direction with some more controlish spells.

    Lava bender: is "smashing damage" bludgeoning or force? Beware of the scribe wizard multiclass though for magic missile shenanigans. Also it makes this an attractive dip for something like a battlesmith (if bludgeoning damage from weapons gets added to).

    Magmatic Emission: What defines an "area" a 5ft square? A contiguous effect from the same spell? If every 5ft square counts then spike growth is a really big deal. Like problematic... With a weaker interpretation this still gives a very nice bonus to some powerful effects.

    Stoneform: fine.

    Worldbreaker: Wow. This is crazy. Multiple free castings, especially with recovery of the spellbreaker ability AND extra damage AND you get it early AND you get a lot of bonus effects that apply to this?




    All in all I love the theme of the class and I like a lot of the mechanics but I think it is pushing too many good abilities at too many levels. Not many dead levels. No ribon abilities... and some of the abilities are insanely powerful with so many interactions. Not being a full caster is a major cost - but a number of abilities just totally circumvent that (casting multiple spells from the same spell slot, casting spells without spell slots). Really in practice I think the only weakness is the lack of versatility in the spell list - and this is fixed too well by the character options that give you access to more abd by multiclassing.

    Some of this may be my misinterpretation but I think that this needs a round of curation to clarify some wording and curtail its power - especially in tiers 2 to 3, but for a Beta version this looks pretty sweet.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post

    Spell sling - If I am reading this right, this is nuts. So you can cast Aganazaar's Scorcher (for example) from a second level spell slot. Then cast it again using the same slot and the same action... for 6d8 damage in an area of effect from a level 2 spell slot... Hit level 7 and you can fireball twice from a level 3 spell slot for 16d6 damage? Then maybe even add subclass bonusses on top. This seems so over the top and dominating in Tier 2 that I assume I am misreading it.
    It can only be used for first level spell slots until 17th level, where it opens up to 2nd level slots.

    Limit breaker - only once per day, but it is still potentially pretty dangerous, not least because spell sling lets you cast two spells out of this slot.
    Again, spell sling only works on first and (much later) second level slots.

    Subclasses

    Magneticist
    A very cool subclass as a theme. I think there is a lot of fun stuff you could do here in play.

    Spell list seems good but lightning arrow? I don't really get why this spell?
    I wanted to enable cast-attack hybrids as a concept, and an electrically-charged dart makes sense for a railgun-esque character. Despite it's name, lightning arrow can be used with thrown weapons.

    Magnetic propulstion: is this intended to let your spells of radius self be duplicated on allies? Or that you can pick an ally instead? If the latter then it is merely a very good ability. If the former then this is very much over the top.
    I should clarify this: it only effects spells with a range of self that already have a radius. Booming Blade and Earth Tremor were the two examples I had in mind. EDIT: I clarified that this ability is intended to be used on spells with a range of "self (radius)"

    Magnetic Impact: This is very open to interpretation. Can you push someone down stairs and they take Int damage every step of the way? It is like a free concentration free spike growth.
    I do need to tighten up this wording. EDIT: I rewrote this ability. The damage is only dealt once per turn but now scales by the distance traveled by the objects/creatures you're moving. So instead of the ability allowing lots of little hits it allows for one big hit: it's still a good way to weaponize a spell like telekinesis, but not quite so silly in the sense that it motivates you to ping-pong the creature between lots of different surfaces/other creatures.

    Lava bender: is "smashing damage" bludgeoning or force?
    Bludgeoning, my error. EDIT: fixed

    Magmatic Emission: What defines an "area" a 5ft square? A contiguous effect from the same spell? If every 5ft square counts then spike growth is a really big deal. Like problematic... With a weaker interpretation this still gives a very nice bonus to some powerful effects.
    The damage is limited to once per turn.

    Worldbreaker: Wow. This is crazy. Multiple free castings, especially with recovery of the spellbreaker ability AND extra damage AND you get it early AND you get a lot of bonus effects that apply to this?
    It's just one free casting, then you have to use your limit breaker. Earthquake is a very situational spell, so I expect most of the time you'll want to use your limit breaker for Erupting Earth.

    All in all I love the theme of the class and I like a lot of the mechanics but I think it is pushing too many good abilities at too many levels. Not many dead levels. No ribon abilities... and some of the abilities are insanely powerful with so many interactions. Not being a full caster is a major cost - but a number of abilities just totally circumvent that (casting multiple spells from the same spell slot, casting spells without spell slots). Really in practice I think the only weakness is the lack of versatility in the spell list - and this is fixed too well by the character options that give you access to more abd by multiclassing.

    Some of this may be my misinterpretation but I think that this needs a round of curation to clarify some wording and curtail its power - especially in tiers 2 to 3, but for a Beta version this looks pretty sweet.
    There are definitely some places I need tighter wording, so thanks for the review. I'm curious to hear what your reading if the power level of the class is with the understanding that spell sling is limited to 1st level spells for most of the game.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2021-04-10 at 04:14 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    It can only be used for first level spell slots until 17th level, where it opens up to 2nd level slots.



    Again, spell sling only works on first and (much later) second level slots.
    Ah great. I missed that. Still avery powerful ability. It is somewhat comparable to something like quicken spell or twin spell... but free, and you can cast two leveled spells, and you can mix and match and not have them the same. Even if it is just 1st level spells this is seriously good. There is nothing wrong with seriously good class abilities though. As long as the other abilities reflect it.

    I really, really think this ability can be too easily broken by the feats/races/backgrounds that give you extra spells on your spell list. A level one spell slot for a twinned dissonent whispers - or a dissonent whispers + command (with a potential reaction move AND a dash action this would almost be as good as banishment for just removing some enemies from the fight).

    There are some level 1 spells that scale well enough into the late game (including non concentration spells) that this can be really potent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I wanted to enable cast-attack hybrids as a concept, and an electrically-charged dart makes sense for a railgun-esque character. Despite it's name, lightning arrow can be used with thrown weapons.
    Ah, I see that. It does make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I should clarify this: it only effects spells with a range of self that already have a radius. Booming Blade and Earth Tremor were the two examples I had in mind. EDIT: I clarified that this ability is intended to be used on spells with a range of "self (radius)"
    So someone takes the Ravnica Orzov background and can get a spirit guardians with radius 40ft? Even forgetting about the damage, this much halved movement radius is obscene. This ability seems to either be pretty useless, if you just use the class spell list, or monumentaly powerful if you use the options to extend it.

    I ran into this problem with my submission as well - my work-around was to provide bonuses only to the spells granted by the subclass - anything added to the main class list would not be added to the specific subclass list so wouldn't get any bonuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    I do need to tighten up this wording. EDIT: I rewrote this ability. The damage is only dealt once per turn but now scales by the distance traveled by the objects/creatures you're moving. So instead of the ability allowing lots of little hits it allows for one big hit: it's still a good way to weaponize a spell like telekinesis, but not quite so silly in the sense that it motivates you to ping-pong the creature between lots of different surfaces/other creatures.
    I think this is a better way to go (still need to see the detail) but likely to be simpler, slow the game down less.


    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Bludgeoning, my error. EDIT: fixed



    The damage is limited to once per turn.



    It's just one free casting, then you have to use your limit breaker. Earthquake is a very situational spell, so I expect most of the time you'll want to use your limit breaker for Erupting Earth.



    There are definitely some places I need tighter wording, so thanks for the review. I'm curious to hear what your reading if the power level of the class is with the understanding that spell sling is limited to 1st level spells for most of the game.
    Even accounting for this, I think the class is still very, very much on the strong side.

    Just opening the PHB at the first class there I have the barbarian as a typical not overpowered class that fulfulls a fantasy OK.

    You have some really great class abilities - like rage. The really defining one.

    But most of the class abilities are unremarkable:

    Unarmoured defense?

    Danger sense?

    Reckless attack?

    Fast Movement?

    Feral Instinct?

    Brutal Critical?

    Persistent Rage?

    Indomitable Might?

    Primal Champion?

    You get a lot of small, incremental improvements in what the class does and one, maybe two big or scaling features. I am worried that instead of a small minority of your abilities being the big flashy ones the majority of your abilities are really powerful.

    Of your abilities I would say the ones in red are of the kind of power that can define a class:

    Critical Cast

    Spell Sling

    Fire at Will

    Limit Breaker

    Arcane Wellspring

    Limit smasher

    Limitless

    Limit breaker is a bit of a borderline case - it is clearly powerful, but not class defining.


    And even if we look at the subclasses I think we see a little of the same.

    I would say for the barbarian that the totem barbarian is probably the most popular, so a quick look at its features:

    Spirit seeker

    Totem spirit

    Aspect of the beast

    Spirit walker

    Totemic attunement

    Of these, I would say you have a number of out of combat or more flavour focussed abilities (or some that are just highly situational) with Totem spirit and maybe Totemic attunement standing out as actual powerful abilities.

    If we compare with just your first subclass:

    Magnetic propulsion (totally transforms a number of spells, potentially very open to abuse with some options)

    Magnetic leviatation - a 5-fold increase is acccessible and a HUGE difference. Yes, levitate can now move 100ft in a turn. It isn't a terrible spell to begin with but this makes it pretty damn good (again no objection to good things, it is just about keeping an eye on the ratio of good to mediocre things. But it is when you get telekinesis that things get crazy... you can move a creature 150ft potentially, and swap which creatures are moved. A melee enemy has to close with the party to do ANYthing and you can effectively keep everyone away from you or pluck someone from the distance and bring them close to murder range. Normally this would be constrained by the stipulation that you cant move anyone beyond the range of the spell... but thanks to Magnetic Propulsion that can be up to 300ft. It is another good ability. Sure, confined spaces will limit this somewhat, but it still looks significant.

    Magnetic repulsion is niche, but not weak. This is an unremarkable ability.

    Magnetic impact - again it depends on if inside. Dropping one enemy on another from a 150ft telekinesis move now does an extra 4d6+10 damage (assuming you have maxed Int by now), which is modest, but does add up turn after turn when its just bonus damage on a control ability.

    I would also say that I think this is probably your weakest subclass (in terms of power).

    I guess my worry isn't just any given ability, but the cumulative effect of multiple good abilities that synergise too well together. I think individually a lot of the abilities are great and a lot of fun and are exactly the kind of thing I would love to see on more classes, but stacked together... they just seem a bit much.

    Indeed some just look like better versions of other classes abilities - like the Thermalist's Prolonged Exposure compared to the draconic sorcerer's ability. Double the types of damage it can apply to, comes at half the level, and either also costs an action from the target or does even more damage. Or the vulcanist's Lave Bender ability - compare to the sorcerer which is a bonus to one roll when you cast a spell; this is also applying to attacks but can stack multiple times, turn after turn.

    I get I am being picky; I really do like most of what you have here.
    Last edited by MrStabby; 2021-04-10 at 08:41 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Oh I wrote it on the strong side, no doubt. Part of the issue here is that the class features have to compensate for the slower spell progression and the very focused spell list, so a direct comparison between the class features of the Spellslinger and a sorcerer or a wizard must by necessity favor the Spellslinger. Wizards have Spell Mastery and Sorcerer's have their metamagic, and the Spellslinger's features are more powerful versions of those features but applied to a weaker spell selection. The damage added features are stronger than their sorcerer or wizard equivalents because the Spellslinger is applying them to weaker spells and fewer of them.

    Interactions with Eberron and Ravnica elements that allow new spells added to a class's spell list is a concern I hadn't really put much thought into. Twinning Command and Whispers doesn't immediately leap out at me as broken (sorcerers can do it, after all) but I'll revisit and see if there's a good way to limit this.

    I'll probably limit Fire at Will to spells that require an action, as you suggest, at least at 11th level: I might open the feature up again with Arcane Wellspring, as that's around the point where wizards get Spell Mastery.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    The Occultist is now ACTUALLY playable.

    I will be making more talismans, but I believe there is currently enough of them to play the class from level 1-20.

    Edit: A couple of notes about the occultist:
    • It's kind of thematically incoherent has I had one idea when I started (low-key insanity/"I've seen worse") but then scrapped that for something else (warding of evil stuff). This process left mechanical remnants that were re-flavoured, but still somewhat feel out of place (namely Shielded Mind and Iron Mind but also Dark Secrets to a lesser extent) - I don't really want to replace these though, as I've had writer's block with these class features, so I'd rather just leave them alone for now.
    • Talismans that allow you to cast spells that are already on the occultist spell list may seem somewhat redundant, but they can be used by any creature, so if it's a concentration spell, you can give the talisman to an ally so they can cast it, allowing you to cast another concentration spell yourself.
    • There are in fact enough talismans to get you from level 1-20, although you wont have many opportunities for choice. I am currently planning on making more, although if I actually get round to doing so is another question entirely.
    • The class is designed to primarily be support, although it certainly does have fairly consistent ranged spell damage options, although neither of the subclasses I created actually reflect this all that well. Daemonology focuses on summoning, although I guess that is supporty but the Far Realms is actually offensive in nature (specialising in psychic damage).
    Last edited by Snowben Gaming; 2021-04-12 at 12:22 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Oh I wrote it on the strong side, no doubt. Part of the issue here is that the class features have to compensate for the slower spell progression and the very focused spell list, so a direct comparison between the class features of the Spellslinger and a sorcerer or a wizard must by necessity favor the Spellslinger. Wizards have Spell Mastery and Sorcerer's have their metamagic, and the Spellslinger's features are more powerful versions of those features but applied to a weaker spell selection. The damage added features are stronger than their sorcerer or wizard equivalents because the Spellslinger is applying them to weaker spells and fewer of them.

    Interactions with Eberron and Ravnica elements that allow new spells added to a class's spell list is a concern I hadn't really put much thought into. Twinning Command and Whispers doesn't immediately leap out at me as broken (sorcerers can do it, after all) but I'll revisit and see if there's a good way to limit this.

    I'll probably limit Fire at Will to spells that require an action, as you suggest, at least at 11th level: I might open the feature up again with Arcane Wellspring, as that's around the point where wizards get Spell Mastery.
    Hmm. Having had a look at this again I think that the main class is not unreasonable. Spellslinging is powerful, but that isn't at all a reason not to like it. As a level 5 power boost it is appropriate. I think that the class really only exceeds what is reasonable in the subclasses. When I was doing some sorcerer comparisons it was with the thermalist, which might have been the issue. Inflicting vulnerability at level 6 is a massive boost (alongside spellslinging which is a glorious interaction) and the better than sorcerer damage boost at half the level from prolonged exposure.

    Honestly, even these abilities are... kind of not too bad, just too soon. If you swapped the order of the abilities round so it wasn't so front loaded and the better abilities came online later then I think it would be better; Prolonged exposure at 9 and antipodal anihilation at 14 is much more reasonable.






    Quote Originally Posted by Snowben Gaming View Post
    The Occultist is now ACTUALLY playable.

    I will be making more talismans, but I believe there is currently enough of them to play the class from level 1-20.
    Right, lets see if I can get my head round another class...

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    Hmm. Having had a look at this again I think that the main class is not unreasonable. Spellslinging is powerful, but that isn't at all a reason not to like it. As a level 5 power boost it is appropriate. I think that the class really only exceeds what is reasonable in the subclasses. When I was doing some sorcerer comparisons it was with the thermalist, which might have been the issue. Inflicting vulnerability at level 6 is a massive boost (alongside spellslinging which is a glorious interaction) and the better than sorcerer damage boost at half the level from prolonged exposure.

    Honestly, even these abilities are... kind of not too bad, just too soon. If you swapped the order of the abilities round so it wasn't so front loaded and the better abilities came online later then I think it would be better; Prolonged exposure at 9 and antipodal anihilation at 14 is much more reasonable.
    That's a pretty good idea, looking into it. EDIT: Still mulling this over, but a minor nerf for now: the damage from ignited/iced happens at the end of turn, not the start. This gives the enemy the option to avoid it entirely.

    I went ahead and made Fire-At-Will "1 action" only at all levels of play. At 11th level the feature is almost a ribbon, since 1st level spells deal the same damage as cantrips at that level. When Arcane Wellspring allows second level spells to be used like this at 17th level it's still mostly keeping on-par with cantrips in terms of damage, but with much better AoE abilities like Shatter.

    I also decided I agree with Chromatic Orb and Dragon's Breath feeling off for the Thermalist: instead I gave them two free spells known at each of those levels (Burning Hands, Ice Knife, Aganazzar's Scorcher, and Snilloc's Snowball Storm). This is more than the other subclasses get, but since the thermalist is uniquely required to keep a least one spell of each of his two damage types current, this seems fair to me.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2021-04-11 at 05:43 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Pretty major changes to the Thermalist subclass:
    • Prolonged Exposure was replaced with an ability that gives you the ability to reduce fire/cold damage you take by your int mod.
    • Antipodal Annihilation still functions mostly the same as before, with the vulnerability no longer connected to the debuff effect of prolonged exposure. It's still very strong at at level 6, but now it's the only damage boosting feature of the subclass.
    • Thermal Balancing now explicitly allows the damage reduction function of the first ability to apply, resulting in a minor buff.
    • Temperature Compensation now lasts 1 minute, with a number of daily uses equal to your proficiency modifier.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Pretty major changes to the Thermalist subclass:
    • Prolonged Exposure was replaced with an ability that gives you the ability to reduce fire/cold damage you take by your int mod.
    • Antipodal Annihilation still functions mostly the same as before, with the vulnerability no longer connected to the debuff effect of prolonged exposure. It's still very strong at at level 6, but now it's the only damage boosting feature of the subclass.
    • Thermal Balancing now explicitly allows the damage reduction function of the first ability to apply, resulting in a minor buff.
    • Temperature Compensation now lasts 1 minute, with a number of daily uses equal to your proficiency modifier.
    I have to say I am liking this a lot more; but don't just change it on my account. Other people may have very different views!

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Changes to the Vulcanist subclass:
    • Lava Bender's extra fire damage is limited to once per turn.
    • Magmatic Emissions' extra fire damage is moved to become a part of Lava Bender.


    Taken together, this means at 3rd-4th level the vulcanist deals a bit more damage, since he probably wasn't dealing damage more than once per turn anyway, and this gives him some off-turn damage sooner as enemies start their turns in his terrain effects. By 5th level when he gets Spell Sling this is basically break-even, then by 6th it's a minor nerf. The once-per-turn limitation makes the subclass slightly less multiclass-bait for martials looking to add some extra damage to all their attacks.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Thoughts about the Manabound-

    Overall-
    Fluff: Very neat concept. Sorcerer, but on purpose.
    Mechanical: Perhaps a bit too much overlap with the paladin which I expect would lead to unfavorable comparisons. I really like the hit dice interactions.

    Specifics-
    Name: I don't love it. I don't think that D&D ever uses the term "mana" in this way and IMO it doesn't fit well. Something like "Channeler" would work better. Yes, that's a very generic name, but that's kind of the point. This is a matter of taste, however.

    Hit dice: I'm going to say this should be 1d10. The class seems built to be in melee and doesn't have much to enable skirmishing. And it's too MAD to have a decent investment in CON
    Light Armor Proficiency: I'm not sure why they have this. Mana Surge makes a dex build pretty suboptimal and the Unarmored Defense feature makes it kind of moot anyway.
    Tool proficiency: I don't have an objection to this per se, but I don't really understand what the justification for it is in terms of the lore of the class.

    Features-
    Spellcasting: No major objections, except that the lack of access to spell foci will become annoying. Choosing cha as the casting stat is a very safe choice, but I'm going to step out on a limb and suggest that this might be the perfect class to be a con-based caster. It would settle several of my other objections and it would be different kind of thing than we've seen before.

    Unarmored Defense: Compares favorably to other versions of the feature, except that the Manabound is already struggling to juggle its stats unlike the barbarian, and unlike the monk neither of the armor stats are an attack stat. Doubly problematic due to the 1d8 hit dice and lack of features that let you weave in and out of combat. I expect most manaborn would see a dip into a class with heavy armor proficiency as mandatory.

    Consume Self: I love it. It's multiclass bait, and so maybe should be pushed back some, but it's a really cool feature.

    Mana Surge: This is a very cool feature, but I feel like it's extremely restrictive in terms of what spells they can use for this. For example, a gravebound has only cause fear as a viable option for this right up to 9th level. The arcane magus can't use this feature at all until 5th level. I know you're using this restriction to try to limit Ravnica/Eberron extra spells shenanigans, but I think you're better off giving the players more options, even if some options turn out stronger than intended, rather than locking up gameplay to a single viable spell for certain characters.

    One with Magic: I have an irrational dislike of d4s, so I'm likely not very objective on this, but I see no reason this shouldn't be a d6.

    Seize the Threads: a lesser-wish kind of a deal? Seems okay. Did you mean "no material components" or "no costly material components"? Because if the spell can't have any material components at all that's a pretty major limitation on spell selection. I would actually probably rather see something more like "Magical Secrets" where they get a list-free spell pick, and maybe can replace it during a long rest or something, but I feel like a totally spontaneous spell pick would lead to a lot of book flipping mid-session for some players.

    Subclasses-
    Gravebound: This looks good, but this is in no small part because it solves some of the issues I have with the base class. Spell selection is rough when it comes to spells viable for Mana Surge until 9th level, as noted above.

    Faithbound: Spells have plenty of solid options for Mana Surge, so that's good. You solve the "Cure wounds is more valuable than a hit die" problem by giving them more things to do with hit dice, which is elegant. My favorite subclass.

    Arboreal Guardian: Issues where at 3rd leave your only options for Mana Surge spells are spells that end when an enemy passes a save which compares poorly to the Faithbound's access to Bless. 5th level solves the problem though.

    Arcane Magus: No Mana Surge spells available at all at 3rd level. Arcane disjunction is very cool. If you fix the Mana Surge issue this is my second favorite subclass.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Thoughts about the Manabound-

    Overall-
    Fluff: Very neat concept. Sorcerer, but on purpose.
    Mechanical: Perhaps a bit too much overlap with the paladin which I expect would lead to unfavorable comparisons. I really like the hit dice interactions.
    Hmm. A good point on the overlap. I envisaged a bit of a different playstyle with more of a focus on spells, but the chances are that the paladin feels like it is casting spells to most people when using lay on hands, detect good/evil, channel divinities and cleansing touch... so yeah - something to watch out for. My instinct would be to buff something the paladin doesn't have much skill in, but the Paladin just off the shelf is a nova damage dealing tank with some of the best support abilities in the game. The things left - AoE blasting and control kind of fall to the subclasses so their toes would be stepped on/be made redundant if I buffed it too much. Something nice to set it appart from the Paladin would be a good place to focus my attenton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Specifics-
    Name: I don't love it. I don't think that D&D ever uses the term "mana" in this way and IMO it doesn't fit well. Something like "Channeler" would work better. Yes, that's a very generic name, but that's kind of the point. This is a matter of taste, however.
    It is a matter of taste... however I share yours on this. I was never particularly happy with the name but couldn't find anything I actually liked. I think it is worth revisiting. Actually, I really dislike the name as well. It was a placeholder that stuck due to my lack of inspiration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Hit dice: I'm going to say this should be 1d10. The class seems built to be in melee and doesn't have much to enable skirmishing. And it's too MAD to have a decent investment in CON
    Light Armor Proficiency: I'm not sure why they have this. Mana Surge makes a dex build pretty suboptimal and the Unarmored Defense feature makes it kind of moot anyway.
    Tool proficiency: I don't have an objection to this per se, but I don't really understand what the justification for it is in terms of the lore of the class.
    Poor version control on my part. Light armour was more a focus on a previous version and then got kind of replaced with unarmoured defence but not updated. Likewise the tool proficiency was from a previous draft - the idea grew out of the gravebound subclass and I like the idea of crafting a phylactery from the start and your little soul casket growing in power with you - then I liked the generalised idea of anything crafted, then thought it would be cool if you could store your essence in something more abstract like a song or piece of music... then pretty much just gave them a pick from a bundle of options and my poor version control caught up with me.

    For the hit dice - I was on the fence and could have gone either way. I think you are right though. Conceptually I build the class round weaknesses - needing to cast spells to stay alive, more magic but at the cost of health, defence mainly through the magic. I think the weaknesses really... weakneded the class (as they should) but maybe left it a little low on these subtle passive boosts. I have been convinced it can be boosted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Features-
    Spellcasting: No major objections, except that the lack of access to spell foci will become annoying. Choosing cha as the casting stat is a very safe choice, but I'm going to step out on a limb and suggest that this might be the perfect class to be a con-based caster. It would settle several of my other objections and it would be different kind of thing than we've seen before.

    Unarmored Defense: Compares favorably to other versions of the feature, except that the Manabound is already struggling to juggle its stats unlike the barbarian, and unlike the monk neither of the armor stats are an attack stat. Doubly problematic due to the 1d8 hit dice and lack of features that let you weave in and out of combat. I expect most manaborn would see a dip into a class with heavy armor proficiency as mandatory.
    I think a Con based caster could work well, and it does fit the fluff well enough. I had avoided it at the start as it is a potentially very powerful casting stat, but I think the class could use a boost. With casting based on Con and moving unarmoured defence there and with the shift to a d10 hit die I think that a lot of the defence becomes more solid.

    Also, I have an attachment to mental stats - I think they make for cool characters, but this might be a place to let that go!



    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Consume Self: I love it. It's multiclass bait, and so maybe should be pushed back some, but it's a really cool feature.

    Mana Surge: This is a very cool feature, but I feel like it's extremely restrictive in terms of what spells they can use for this. For example, a gravebound has only cause fear as a viable option for this right up to 9th level. The arcane magus can't use this feature at all until 5th level. I know you're using this restriction to try to limit Ravnica/Eberron extra spells shenanigans, but I think you're better off giving the players more options, even if some options turn out stronger than intended, rather than locking up gameplay to a single viable spell for certain characters.
    I saw consume self and one with magic as a closely tied pair of abilities. One takes away your healing for magical power, the other grants you healing from magical power to compensate somewhat. I had hoped to weaken the multiclass abuse potential by specifiying One with magic had to have the spells come from the binding list. In terms of the number of level 1 spells it gets you, you could get six level 1 spells per day (assuming two short rests) from a couple of levels of warlock. And given you only recover half your HD on a long rest you would need to be level 12 before this started breaking even on average over consecutive days. And it costs you your HP recovery.

    Mana surge - yes its restrictive. This was where I had my worries about all the way to add other spells to the class spell list. For any class spell it was fine, but for any spell that could become a class spell or any multiclass spell it could be rough. I was thinking of spells like 8 hour hex. That said, maybe it isn't a problem. You sacrifice a lot by not shaking up what spells you are concentrating on.

    I think I might relax this.


    With regards to the spells per level that contribute, I didn't think it much of an issue as long as you had something... though I get that limited choices could feel very frustrating. I think that opening it up to the broader class list as well might be needed here. If nothing else magic weapon is a pretty OK, if unexciting spell that will tick the box.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    One with Magic: I have an irrational dislike of d4s, so I'm likely not very objective on this, but I see no reason this shouldn't be a d6.
    This may be an older version you have open. HP recovery is currently 2HP per spell level... I say currently as this is one of the areas I am looking to tune. Given a d10+con HD would probably be healing about 10 HP normally this is a steep loss; maybe 3+2 times spell level would be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Seize the Threads: a lesser-wish kind of a deal? Seems okay. Did you mean "no material components" or "no costly material components"? Because if the spell can't have any material components at all that's a pretty major limitation on spell selection. I would actually probably rather see something more like "Magical Secrets" where they get a list-free spell pick, and maybe can replace it during a long rest or something, but I feel like a totally spontaneous spell pick would lead to a lot of book flipping mid-session for some players.
    So I actually meant no material components at all. I am not really sure where I want to take this. I will meander a bit in my thinking.

    To me, a class is cool for a number of reasons... fluff and mechanics and so on. There is also an element of what it can do as well as what it does do. A once per day ability that gives a bit of a higher level slot with massive flexability to me feels like it expands on what the class can do and therefore its feeling of awesomeness, whilst still (hopefully) curtailing somewhat what it actually does do and therefore not stepping on any other classes toes.

    The feeling I was going for was a real direct, cosmological access to magic that lets you be limited only by your creativity... but I also feel it weakens the identity of the class (or subclass as I think most of the theme sits here) being so broad. And in practice I see it as a get out of jail card - your word of recall, your animate dead, your wall of force. I see this as a bit of a feature - if your healer is some combination of bard or divine soul or celestial warlock or spells known class in general, then they might not want to devote a known spell to raise dead given they intent to cast it as little as possible. Hopefully by being more valuable than a spell slot you ensure that anyone who does have any selected on their spell list will take precedence in casting it. I feel the comprable ability is actually probably the cleric's divine intervention.

    I figured that you couldn't use material components as the spell was channeled through yourself rather than a spellcasting focus. I think this should be relaxed for two reasons. 1) I think the body of the character istelf should count as a spellcasting focus. 2) just think how much this will slow down play at the table: "spell X might get us out of this mess... let me look it up and see if I can cast it. Nope... what about spell Y?". Opening it up so it is easier to know, recall and find appropriate spells would be a good shift.

    Maybe tying it to something you can change on a short rest would work... or maybe you pick three spells and can change these on a short rest, but it can be any of the chosen spells? Or change it alltogether?




    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Subclasses-
    Gravebound: This looks good, but this is in no small part because it solves some of the issues I have with the base class. Spell selection is rough when it comes to spells viable for Mana Surge until 9th level, as noted above.

    Faithbound: Spells have plenty of solid options for Mana Surge, so that's good. You solve the "Cure wounds is more valuable than a hit die" problem by giving them more things to do with hit dice, which is elegant. My favorite subclass.

    Arboreal Guardian: Issues where at 3rd leave your only options for Mana Surge spells are spells that end when an enemy passes a save which compares poorly to the Faithbound's access to Bless. 5th level solves the problem though.

    Arcane Magus: No Mana Surge spells available at all at 3rd level. Arcane disjunction is very cool. If you fix the Mana Surge issue this is my second favorite subclass.
    Gravebound might need a tweak. It might need a few. Or not. I think that a lot of people, myself included, have a tendency to design for themselves - what they like. For me, I worry that this subclass is a bit passive. Lots of static abilities and buffs but not some much extra Oomph on the stuff they pro-acively do, even so far as a relatively weak spell list (3rd level spells are really the only exciting ones). But some people like this; some people play champion fighters and that is OK. Maybe I should have something that is a bit simpler to play.

    But my temptation is to add something more on the cool thing to do list.



    Faithbound - probably my favourite as well. Enough different abilities to never be useless, some clear strengths though and can do some unique stuff.

    Arboreal Guardian - second favourite. Needs... something to deal with flyers though. Maybe earthbind on the spell list will be enough? I think the class needs a bit more diversity to it though - the spells are either poor, or they limit movement. Might be a bit one dimensional to play. Trying to not just duplicate the wizard list though. I think that some custom spells might be in order.

    Arcane Magus - I find your comments here really interesting simply because they are so different to my own feelings. Not a matter of judgement, but of personal taste. This is my least favourite subclass. It felt a bit bland and generic arcane to me, missing out on a really clear theme - it was just... blasting. You liked Arcane Disjunction and thought it was cool - to me it was a needed ability to help keep some of the other spells flowing a bit longer and was about as sexy as a bigger fuel tank. Possibly a sign that I can broadly leave it be! I think I will let Mana Surge work on all spells on the spell list which puts Zephyr Strike as a viable level 1 spell (to zip round the battlefield hitting stuff with your raised strength).



    Thanks for your input; a lot to change and a lot more to think about.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    I've started the process of looking through the spells of the Spellslinger at various levels and writing new spells for the levels where I feel like the concepts aren't well represented. The first new spell is Ring of Blades, which replaces Otiluke's Resilient Sphere at the Magneticist's 4th level spell. Its like if Melf's Minute Meteors and Swift Quiver had a love child. It's not quite as good as Melf's in terms of damage because it lacks an AoE component, but it has some defensive properties which help to justify its place as a 4th level spell. I'll be adding more spells here and there as we approach our deadline. I'll make sure there's at least one ice damage spell at each level for the thermalist (and an icey-melee cantrip in the vein of Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade) and I'll probably add a few more earth-bender-y damage spells spattered through the levels.

    Also, I gave the magneticist Mage Hand as a bonus spell. I didn't want to give the class in general too many good utility spells, but it's a little silly if the magneticist can't do basic at-will telekinesis.

    EDIT: Several more new spells added which are thematically appropriate for the Vulcanist. I'll continue to add more as I have time.
    • Earth Strike is a second level spell that functions kind of like Booming Blade in that a melee weapon attack is a part of casting the spell, with bonus damage, knockback and prone. Great for a vulcanist who wants to knock a guy back into his difficult terrain and keep him there. A spellslinger will likely want to use a staff enchanted with Shillelagh for this.
    • Fissure is a 5th level spell that creates a 15 by 60 crevasse in the ground, 20 feet deep, the interior of which is difficult terrain. It also deals bludgeoning damage when it forms, as well as falling damage to creatures who don't pass the dex save to jump out of the area. The spell is instantaneous, and the crack in the ground is new landscape feature.
    • Fist of the Earth is a 7th level spell and summons a huge pillar of stone. The spell has a "relaxed" mode where you can call it up slow if you just want a little elevator ride, but when cast offensively, it deals damage when the pillar hits a guy and again when it either slams the guy into the ceiling or launches them into the air to fall back to the ground. If you manage to pin a guy between the pillar and the ceiling it becomes a restraining spell which holds them there and continues to crush them until they manage to wiggle free or until the spell ends the pillar slowly sinks back into the ground.


    EDIT2: Another round of new spells:
    • Frostforged Blade is the booming-blade-esque ice cantrip I mentioned, and it has the opposite effect from Booming Blade, dealing its bonus damage if you don't move from the spot you're in. Its damage is lower than the similar spells because in my opinion forcing someone to move is inherently more powerful than forcing someone not to for several reasons.
    • Iron Binding is a second level spell with a one-time damage effect as you levitate a weaponized slap-bracelet at someone, then choose from a menu of effects depending on what body parts you've shackled. Effects are generally softer control than similar spells like Maximilian's Earthen Grasp or Ensnaring Strike which restrain the target, but Iron Binding is neat in that it requires no concentration: once you've bent the rebar around the other guy's wrists or ankles it stays like that until it or one of it's pals unbends it. Combos nicely with magneticist spells and abilities which gain some benefit from targets wearing metal.
    • Cryogenesis is a high-level single-target ice-based DoT with a disable effect that begins as rather mild but becomes more powerful as the target fails more and more of its saves.
    • Magnetic Conflux is a situationally powerful AoE control effect. It can be a mass-disarm against a bunch of guys with metal weapons, but it's a much more potent control and damage spell against creatures made of or wearing metal. At this point in the game (It's a 7th level spell) you are Magneto and anybody who wears metal around you should feel dumb.
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2021-04-18 at 03:41 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Thoughts on the Occultist:

    Generally: I like it a lot. I feel like you should simplify the mechanics and broaden the fluff.

    I like the core mechanic, talisman creation. It's cool and versatile. A class built from the ground up as the "Spell Storing Item" class is neat.

    In terms of the fluff, I'm not really buying the connection between talisman creation and forbidden lore. Again, I like the mechanics behind the talismans, but I still don't see why it's an ability unique to the guys who read from the forbidden section of the library. If you free the core class from this overspecific roleplay niche your subclasses would be free to explore more varied themes.

    I'm not at all sure why the spell progression switches to Mystic Arcanum halfway through. For warlocks, this makes sense as a way to limit their higher level spells to 1/day where their lower slots regenerate when they take their lunch break, but the Occultist has daily slots at all levels. If this is to limit their talismans to only work with 1st-5th level spell slots... well, just say you can only use 1st-5th level slots to make talismans. No need for a second system to track.

    To the specific talismans, in general I don't really see why you need multiple types: almost all of them are, to one degree or another, the equivalent of a Talisman of Spell Storage. Does the Talisman of Anti-Magic really need its own entry? Do we really need a Talisman of Anti-Possession, a Talisman of Protection, and a Talisman of Spell Storing with Protection from Evil and Good? Even if they all function slightly differently in one way or another, the conceptual overlap makes them feel very redundant. My suggestion would be to eliminate the other types entirely and just build the whole feature into the Spell Storing talisman. Maybe generally allow for "upcasting" the talisman to create charges (as implemented currently in the Talisman of Anti-Magic).
    Last edited by Damon_Tor; 2021-04-18 at 05:19 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    The Manifester wasn't falling together quite the way I liked. I'm thinking of continuing my Alchemy expansion (see The Elements and Hybrid Power) with a martial half-alchemist called the Grenadier. Thoughts? I know it isn't traditional spellcasting so I'm trying to come up with alternate options.
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    The Manifester wasn't falling together quite the way I liked. I'm thinking of continuing my Alchemy expansion (see The Elements and Hybrid Power) with a martial half-alchemist called the Grenadier. Thoughts? I know it isn't traditional spellcasting so I'm trying to come up with alternate options.
    I don't have an issue with that. Sounds rad.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Grenadier has features (other than subclass features at 3/5) up to level 10 so far. Here's a sneak peak:

    Cauterize
    At 2nd level, you learn how to use caustic and flammable reagents to seal a wound so that it can be cared for later. As an action, touch a creature. That creature gains temporary hit points equal to half their missing hit points plus your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). In addition, if an effect, such as bleeding, would be removed by healing granted, cauterize ends that effect. These temporary hit points last until the next time the creature completes a short or a long rest.

    Cauterize has no effect on constructs, undead, or creatures with immunity or vulnerability to fire damage.

    Once a creature has benefited from cauterize, that creature cannot benefit from it again until they have completed a long rest.
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2021-04-21 at 07:25 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    Grenadier has features (other than subclass features at 3/5) up to level 10 so far. Here's a sneak peak:

    Cauterize
    At 2nd level, you learn how to use caustic and flammable reagents to seal a wound so that it can be cared for later. As an action, touch a creature. That creature gains temporary hit points equal to half their missing hit points plus your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). In addition, if an effect, such as bleeding, would be removed by healing granted, cauterize ends that effect. These temporary hit points last until the next time the creature completes a short or a long rest.

    Cauterize has no effect on constructs, undead, or creatures with immunity or vulnerability to fire damage.

    Once a creature has benefited from cauterize, that creature cannot benefit from it again until they have completed a long rest.
    Looks pretty dope. I like a "heal" effect that gets stronger the more badly damaged someone is.

    A bit of an odd interaction with proper heals though: someone gets cauterized, then gets healed, they wind up with their normal max HP+half of whatever they were missing. Players with a certain mindset might consider deliberately reducing their hitpoints to 1, using cauterize on themselves, then healing themselves back up to full for 150% of their normal max HP+your int mod. I'm not sure how to eliminate such shenanigans without complex wording specifically reducing the tHP as normal healing occurs. But realistically, I don't see a strong reason why these should be tHP except for resource expenditure purposes. My suggestion would be to make it legit healing, restoring real HP, but at the cost of the targets' hit dice. After all, this isn't magic, you're applying biological science to assist the body's natural healing process, so it makes sense the body's healing resources would be taxed appropriately.

    I'm not sure if "bleeding" is really modeled anywhere in 5e except I guess by the "dying" condition.

    I also kind of feel like it should work on some constructs: the same process can weld them back together. Maybe limit it to "living creatures and creatures made of metal" so that non-metal constructs like flesh golems aren't healed.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Looks pretty dope. I like a "heal" effect that gets stronger the more badly damaged someone is.

    A bit of an odd interaction with proper heals though: someone gets cauterized, then gets healed, they wind up with their normal max HP+half of whatever they were missing. Players with a certain mindset might consider deliberately reducing their hitpoints to 1, using cauterize on themselves, then healing themselves back up to full for 150% of their normal max HP+your int mod. I'm not sure how to eliminate such shenanigans without complex wording specifically reducing the tHP as normal healing occurs. But realistically, I don't see a strong reason why these should be tHP except for resource expenditure purposes. My suggestion would be to make it legit healing, restoring real HP, but at the cost of the targets' hit dice. After all, this isn't magic, you're applying biological science to assist the body's natural healing process, so it makes sense the body's healing resources would be taxed appropriately.

    I'm not sure if "bleeding" is really modeled anywhere in 5e except I guess by the "dying" condition.

    I also kind of feel like it should work on some constructs: the same process can weld them back together. Maybe limit it to "living creatures and creatures made of metal" so that non-metal constructs like flesh golems aren't healed.
    My reasoning for making it not real healing was that cauterization isn't really healing (arguably it hinders proper healing because it creates burn scarring). It's only useful as a way to close a wound to prevent contamination and stop bleeding.

    The bleeding thing isn't in baseline 5e that I could find (I looked after writing this) but I'm going to leave it in because I've seen a few homebrews that create it and I want to be clear. Unless I alter cauterize to be proper health, in which case it is kind of moot.

    Welding constructs back together makes sense, but it sort of flies against the style of 5e to make such a narrow exception.

    I ended up with everything except the 14th level Sapper feature finished yesterday, but it's not formatted yet. I'll figure that feature out and put the class up tomorrow and try to get some quick reviews for the other classes sometime next week (got plans this weekend).
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    So I think I procrastinated about this contest so hard that my brain actually just repressed it out of my memory. Oops.

    But I'm back now, so let's get back into things

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Thoughts on the Occultist:

    Generally: I like it a lot. I feel like you should simplify the mechanics and broaden the fluff.

    I like the core mechanic, talisman creation. It's cool and versatile. A class built from the ground up as the "Spell Storing Item" class is neat.

    In terms of the fluff, I'm not really buying the connection between talisman creation and forbidden lore. Again, I like the mechanics behind the talismans, but I still don't see why it's an ability unique to the guys who read from the forbidden section of the library. If you free the core class from this overspecific roleplay niche your subclasses would be free to explore more varied themes.

    I'm not at all sure why the spell progression switches to Mystic Arcanum halfway through. For warlocks, this makes sense as a way to limit their higher level spells to 1/day where their lower slots regenerate when they take their lunch break, but the Occultist has daily slots at all levels. If this is to limit their talismans to only work with 1st-5th level spell slots... well, just say you can only use 1st-5th level slots to make talismans. No need for a second system to track.

    To the specific talismans, in general I don't really see why you need multiple types: almost all of them are, to one degree or another, the equivalent of a Talisman of Spell Storage. Does the Talisman of Anti-Magic really need its own entry? Do we really need a Talisman of Anti-Possession, a Talisman of Protection, and a Talisman of Spell Storing with Protection from Evil and Good? Even if they all function slightly differently in one way or another, the conceptual overlap makes them feel very redundant. My suggestion would be to eliminate the other types entirely and just build the whole feature into the Spell Storing talisman. Maybe generally allow for "upcasting" the talisman to create charges (as implemented currently in the Talisman of Anti-Magic).
    This makes a whole bunch of sense, the talisman system was kind of thrown onto the Occultist after I scrapped some of the original theming, so it feels rather disjointed from the rest of the class. I think the best way to fix this problem is to effectively make the talisman system into a class by itself, getting rid of the rest of the occultist entirely. But as this is effectively starting from scratch, I'm not sure how well I'll actually be able to do so with only ~2 weeks until the deadline. Additionally, I think this hypothetical class would work well if the talisman system effectively replaced normal spell casting (which would probably work better for a theme like Spells Without Slots rather than Partial Casters), so I think what I'm going to do is resign from this contest. I don't have the time to do what I want to with my class, so I'm just going to leave it, especially as stuff has been a bit hectic for me recently.

    Good luck to the rest of you though!
    Temporarily back from the void between realities.
    Don't ask how long I'll be here for, I have no idea.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    So my life has been eventful this month (I'm buying a house) and my reviews have correspondingly been pushed back. I could maybe (no promises, the house not fully resolved) get some reviews up with a three-week extension, which would also give everyone a little extra time if they're making edits still. If anyone would like the extra time let me know, but if you all feel like you're finished, we can just close this out at the usual time and I'll give reviews on request after the contest.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    So my life has been eventful this month (I'm buying a house) and my reviews have correspondingly been pushed back. I could maybe (no promises, the house not fully resolved) get some reviews up with a three-week extension, which would also give everyone a little extra time if they're making edits still. If anyone would like the extra time let me know, but if you all feel like you're finished, we can just close this out at the usual time and I'll give reviews on request after the contest.
    Well I have just got my laptop working again (well a few days ago, but a lot to catch up on)... so I am massively behind on both review and refinement! Another extra week would work for me and would not begrudge a few weeks more!

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Otisons View Post
    Consider submitting an application - when we publish a class, can we add comments to it, things like design goals, etc.? I think I may have requested this for another competition, but cannot remember the answer.
    I frequently add a Q&A at the end of my entries, and "sidebars" in the middle. So far nobody has complained. In general, your presentation is up to you.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Sorry guys, has the contest deadline been postponed? I'm picking up an old class of mine, and I wanted to know if I could propose it.

    Actually I think it is an out of contest entry, since, even if heavily modified, it is still the 2.0 version of a class that I have already posted some time ago, and does not include subclasses, so perhaps it does not meet all the requirements.

    However, I wanted to propose it to you, also to get some advice.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    The deadline has been extended yes. As for remakes of old content, that's allowed, as long as there's a clear difference between old and new.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Ok guys, so I added my entry...

    This is version 2.0 of an old class I posted some time ago. Overall it has been heavily modified, while maintaining the basic idea.

    Alas, like many of my homebrew creations, the class was created to reflect the specific wishes and needs of one of my players, so there are no subclasses. Since this involves simplification during design, feel free to penalize it, I understand it perfectly! ^^

    The goal of the class is to create a gish capable of using spells as if they were the maneuvers of a melee warrior, both as feeling and outcome.

    To do so I tried to create a mechanic as generic as possible, to avoid having to create ad hoc spells or a specific list of spells, developing the following points:
    • Reducing the range of all spells to "touch", to make them "melee".
    • Adding the ability to replace a certain number of spell attack rolls with full melee attacks.
    • Adding the ability to release the effects of AOE spells directly from your body.

    These features are mostly needed to make the class work, but it lacked content at the higher levels, so at some point I decided to merge it with another idea I was developing: A caster version of the Barbarian's Rage. I like how it turned out, and how it fits with the concept of this class.

    At the moment I'm testing the class in a campaign where the characters are still at 3rd level, so I'm still not sure how it will evolve, but for now, the result is very satisfying. I am afraid that at high levels the class may become too OP.

    I added various notes, to make the reading more immediate and, above all, to highlight the doubts I have.

    I hope you enjoy!
    Last edited by Old Harry MTX; 2021-05-24 at 11:50 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Umm, when is the new deadline?
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

    Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).

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    Default Re: D&D Base Class Contest XV Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    Umm, when is the new deadline?
    You're right, also because I'm continuing to make minor adjustments but I don't know if I can still make them. XD

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