A Wild Lurker Appears! Hyoi's Random Banter #232

[Domino Quartz]

Fish is fish. Sea-food, if you would. I'm not the one who makes the rules I just know them!

1. Not all fish are from the sea.
2. Meat is "animal flesh used as food." Fish are animals.
3. "Carnivore" means "flesh-eater." When bears eat fish, they are eating the fish's flesh (among its other body parts).

[enderlord99]

I mean fish isn't meat!

Yes it is. It just isn't red meat.

I mean, there are some purposes for which aquatic animals (including fish) are not considered animals, but that gets into Forbidden Topics.

[Lacco]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I figure that anyone who hunts any kind of animal primarily for sport shouldn't be using anything more advanced than a sharp rock on a stick.

For some reason I find it rather strange that this comes from a person that would like superpowers to take revenge for past slights.

Ah, yes. The six kingdoms of life: Bacteria, Archeae, Plants, Fungi, Animals, and Fish.

Don't forget Ducks! Ducks are special!

[Rater202]

For some reason I find it rather strange that this comes from a person that would like superpowers to take revenge for past slights.

In my mind, there's a world of difference between hunting an animal, be it for food or sport, and showing up to your high school reunion with an immortal god-body, the confidence of knowing that you are objectively faster, stronger, tougher, more agile, more dexterous, more coordinated, and more intelligent(in every conceivable way) than everyone else in the room, and the ability to turn into a God-Mudrdering eldritch space dragon.

"Aha, you all mocked me, called me stupid, commented on my fatness and lack of athleticism... But while you all got weaker in old age, in my age I have become strong, strong, strong" and then I imagine it devolves into slowly shifting into my dragon form while paraphrasing Smaug and then flying off while using the smoke from my fire breath to sky write a giant raised middle finger.

And then I'd go fight crime. As a dragon.

[Anonymouswizard]

This argument confuses me. As somebody who lives in a country where the legality of traditional hunting sports is an actual political issue, I can tell you that the competition isn't with the animal. (Also that trophy hunting and sport hunting should be two different things.)

Why would you give the animal a sporting chance when the ones you're actually competing against are the other hunters?

Also it's a well known fact that fish are a swimming mineral. This is why vegetarians can eat them. Yes, I do actually know that that makes them pescatarian.

[Lacco]

In my mind, there's a world of difference between hunting an animal, be it for food or sport, and showing up to your high school reunion with an immortal god-body, the confidence of knowing that you are objectively faster, stronger, tougher, more agile, more dexterous, more coordinated, and more intelligent(in every conceivable way) than everyone else in the room, and the ability to turn into a God-Mudrdering eldritch space dragon.

In my mind, there is almost none. You have similar base instincts as the guys who hunt for joy or pride - it just shows differently.

Why would you give the animal a sporting chance when the ones you're actually competing against are the other hunters?

Also it's a well known fact that fish are a swimming mineral. This is why vegetarians can eat them.

Except for dolphins. They are a less known subspecies of banana.

...do fish then count as part of paleo diet? That's the one where you eat rocks, right...?

[Rater202]

In my mind, there is almost none. You have similar base instincts as the guys who hunt for joy or pride - it just shows differently.

The base instinct is immaterial, it's the end that instinct drives you to and the means by which you get there that are important.

Paying a couple thousand dollars to get high-tech equipment that makes luring a defenseless animal to me trivial, shooting it with more gun than anyone could ever possibly need to make a clean kill, and then mounting its head on my wall and acting like this someone makes me more of a man is rather different from going to great effort to drastically improve my physical and mental qualities in order to give the people who put me down and tried to hurt me emotionally a taste of their own medicine.

[asda fasda]

Except for dolphins. They are a less known subspecies of banana.

Well dolphin is definitely not a fish, but I can't say about banana, they have similar curvature though : P

The base instinct is immaterial, it's the end that instinct drives you to and the means by which you get there that are important.

Paying a couple thousand dollars to get high-tech equipment that makes luring a defenseless animal to me trivial, shooting it with more gun than anyone could ever possibly need to make a clean kill, and then mounting its head on my wall and acting like this someone makes me more of a man is rather different from going to great effort to drastically improve my physical and mental qualities in order to give the people who put me down and tried to hurt me emotionally a taste of their own medicine.

I was trying not to get into this but I generally agree with lacco36, the instinct is the same, to show and feel power, but there is a crucial difference, Rater202 in his description after showing his strengths fly offs to use it for good when hunter use his power to punish the weaker which usually is not appropriate behavior.

[Rater202]

I like the Supervillain aesthetic but I don't think I'd have it in me to do anything that was clear cut evil.

I probably shouldn't get superpowers though because I imagine it wouldn't take long for me to start forcibly reforming corrupt institutions to outs harmful policies and start forcing people to do their jobs properly on pain of death.

...So many people seem to go into teaching or medicine or other jobs because they want power over people who can't fight back. It angers up my blood something fierce.

[Peelee]

if you absolutely must a handgun, then you honestly have no business being in the woods hunting and animal for sport in the first place.

I completely agree, but not for the reason you may think.

[Bartmanhomer]

I can't wait for the Gay Pride Parade on the internet next month.

[Rater202]

I completely agree, but not for the reason you may think.

I mean, if you don't know how to track an animal with minimal tools and you don't know how to make a clean kill with a simple enough weapon, you probably don't know enough about wilderness survival to be out in the woods in the first place.

"Oh, I forgot to get batteries for my GPS tracker... Oh well, people have been roughing it out for centuries, I'll be fine, right Bob?"
"Yeah, Billy, we come out here for a week every year, we should be fine."

Three weeks later, after having long since run out of food and water, Bob and Billy are playing Mercy to determine who will kill and eat the other.

[Peelee]

In my mind, there's a world of difference between hunting an animal, be it for food or sport, and showing up to your high school reunion with an immortal god-body, the confidence of knowing that you are objectively faster, stronger, tougher, more agile, more dexterous, more coordinated, and more intelligent(in every conceivable way) than everyone else in the room, and the ability to turn into a God-Mudrdering eldritch space dragon.

"Aha, you all mocked me, called me stupid, commented on my fatness and lack of athleticism... But while you all got weaker in old age, in my age I have become strong, strong, strong" and then I imagine it devolves into slowly shifting into my dragon form while paraphrasing Smaug and then flying off while using the smoke from my fire breath to sky write a giant raised middle finger.

And then I'd go fight crime. As a dragon.

The best revenge is a life well lived.

I mean, if you don't know how to track an animal with minimal tools and you don't know how to make a clean kill with a simple enough weapon, you probably don't know enough about wilderness survival to be out in the woods in the first place.

"Oh, I forgot to get batteries for my GPS tracker... Oh well, people have been roughing it out for centuries, I'll be fine, right Bob?"
"Yeah, Billy, we come out here for a week every year, we should be fine."

Three weeks later, after having long since run out of food and water, Bob and Billy are playing Mercy to determine who will kill and eat the other.

Tools are tools. A spear and a gun are both weapons fashioned by man to help achieve a more quick and efficient superiority. The gun is simply more efficient. And you do need a good bit of skill to make a clean, quick kill (or even to hit it at all; just because a gun is fundamentally point and click doesn't mean that you'll be able to shoot what you think you're pointing at), just like with a spear.

But no, the point I was making is you're not going to have much success taking down something with a handgun. Unless you're using a hand cannon, at which point I'm going to question sanity. No, hunters primarily use long guns. Rifles.

[Rater202]

The best revenge is a life well lived.

Not quite.

The best revenge is a life lived so well that the people who hurt you are consumed with envy for your quality of life long after you've finally moved on and put their crimes against you out of mind.

[Peelee]

Not quite.

The best revenge is a life lived so well that the people who hurt you are consumed with envy for your quality of life long after you've finally moved on and put their crimes against you out of mind.

No small part of that saying is that you shouldn't concern yourself with what they think. It's not a zero-sum game, your success need not be their punishment. Frankly, you should put No importance on such people, or they will forever dominate your life even after they are gone. Don't focus on how they feel, focus on how you feel. Fight for your own goals, not for the acceptance of anyone who shouldn't matter.

[Rater202]

No small part of that saying is that you shouldn't concern yourself with what they think. It's not a zero-sum game, your success need not be their punishment. Frankly, you should put No importance on such people, or they will forever dominate your life even after they are gone. Don't focus on how they feel, focus on how you feel. Fight for your own goals, not for the acceptance of anyone who shouldn't matter.

It's not about acceptance. **** acceptance, it's just another form of conformity.

It's about becoming objectivly greater than the people who worked so hard to make you feel like you were lesser.

The greatest revenge is to show the people who tried to cut you down that they failed utterly. It's being the tallest poppy even though the other poppies kept trying to snip you. It's getting your ass out of the crab-bucket with torn-off arms of the crabs who tried to pull you back in still clinging to your legs.

I already know I'm better than them, simply because I don't try to hurt people for no clear reason and I don't deliberately choose not to do my job or fail in my responsibilities. But that doesn't mean that the damage isn't done.

I know that catharsis isn't always healthy, but having a clear, undisputable victory over some of the people who hurt me would give me some much-needed closure. It's hard to move on when you know that the people who hurt you got away with it.

[DavidSh]

No, hunters primarily use long guns. Rifles.

Shotguns are also common, but, again, long guns.

[Peelee]

It's not about acceptance. **** acceptance, it's just another form of conformity.

One can certainly argue that. One can also argue that the need to prove something to others is a form of demanding to have others accept it, which is by its very nature a desire for acceptance. I choose to argue the latter.

The greatest revenge is to show the people who tried to cut you down that they failed utterly.

I agree. A life well lived.

I already know I'm better than them, simply because I don't try to hurt people for no clear reason and I don't deliberately choose not to do my job or fail in my responsibilities.

If you know you are better than they, then you have already won.

But that doesn't mean that the damage isn't done.

And can you reverse the damage? A broken cloth cannot be made whole again without a seam. A broken window cannot have the glass put back into position as if it were never broken. Repairing and replacing must be done to that which is damaged. If a response to being damaged is to cause damage to the instigator, that only results in more overall damage.

It's hard to move on when you know that the people who hurt you got away with it.

And how, exactly, would they stop getting away with it? What if you do everything you imagine, you become a dragon, become smarter and stronger and faster than anyone else has ever been, and they still reject you? If course you could crush them, but that would leave you feeling empty inside, because what your striving for is based on other people. You're giving them all the power to many you feel better instead of taking that part it your own hands. If you crush them, they will have ended still rejecting you, and if you could not get let that go before, you won't be able to let it go after.

Shotguns are also common, but, again, long guns.

I always forget shotguns.

[Rater202]

And how, exactly, would they stop getting away with it?

"You will never be as awesome/intelligent/successful as me despite your superior attitude and attempts to cut me down when we were younger and now you have to live with knowing that history will remember you as a footnote in my narrative" is the closest thing to the pop-culture conception of Karma I can think of.

Well, that and if I were to win one of those set-for-life lottery/sweepstakes things where they just keep giving you money for the rest of your life and then I spend the rest of my life living in leisure while the people who hurt me are stuck in jobs where they work too hard for not enough money but with what I know of lotto stats I'm probably more likely to actually become a dragon than win the lottery.

[Keltest]

"You will never be as awesome/intelligent/successful as me despite your superior attitude and attempts to cut me down when we were younger and now you have to live with knowing that history will remember you as a footnote in my narrative" is the closest thing to the pop-culture conception of Karma I can think of.

Well, that and if I were to win one of those set-for-life lottery/sweepstakes things where they just keep giving you money for the rest of your life and then I spend the rest of my life living in leisure while the people who hurt me are stuck in jobs where they work too hard for not enough money but with what I know of lotto stats I'm probably more likely to actually become a dragon than win the lottery.

It seems to me that if youre defining yourself relative to them, then youve already given them all the power in the world over you, and no amount of success or triumph will ever take that power away from them. The only thing that can do that is to simply stop caring about them. Why should they even matter anymore?

[Anonymouswizard]

It seems to me that if youre defining yourself relative to them, then youve already given them all the power in the world over you, and no amount of success or triumph will ever take that power away from them. The only thing that can do that is to simply stop caring about them. Why should they even matter anymore?

It depends, you can place people above you via opposition as well as submission (you can also in theory place people below you in opposition as well as dominance). In D&D terms a Cleric of Pelor is in a position of submission(/service) to Pelor and in a position of opposition to Asmodeus, but considers themselves below both of you.

[Rater202]

It seems to me that if youre defining yourself relative to them, then youve already given them all the power in the world over you, and no amount of success or triumph will ever take that power away from them. The only thing that can do that is to simply stop caring about them. Why should they even matter anymore?

Do you tell the victims of a crime that they should just get over it, never mind that their attacker is still at large?

People hurt me, Keltest. Fundamentally. They have caused damage that won't heal despite my best efforts, and not only did they get away with it, the people whose job it is to prevent that harm or punish the people who inflict it was derelict in both duties. The people who hurt me suffered no consequence for it.

Let me fantasize about showing up and being objectively better than them to the degree that they must fall to their knees and weep with an impotent rage that their envy of my power will never be sated.

If someone had deliberately stabbed me in the kidneys, would you fault me for dreaming of taking one of their kidneys by force to replace what they'd robbed me of as I received dialysis? Is confidence or emotional stability not to the psyche what organs are to a body?

[Peelee]

"You will never be as awesome/intelligent/successful as me despite your superior attitude and attempts to cut me down when we were younger and now you have to live with knowing that history will remember you as a footnote in my narrative" is the closest thing to the pop-culture conception of Karma I can think of.

And if they say no? If they just refuse to accept that and treat you just like they did before? You're giving them all the power to reject you and having faith that they won't, despite knowing that they already did. That's not what I would call a winning strategy.

[Rater202]

And if they say no? If they just refuse to accept that and treat you just like they did before? You're giving them all the power to reject you and having faith that they won't, despite knowing that they already did. That's not what I would call a winning strategy.

If someone is so stupid and/or delusional that I could be immortal and all-powerful and they'd still think they were better than me and try to belittle and hurt me, then that just means that they're fundamentally broken and can safely be disregarded forever more.

That's still closure. Just a different closure.

[Fyraltari]

If someone is so stupid and/or delusional that I could be immortal and all-powerful and they'd still think they were better than me

Being immortal or all powerful has no bearing on how good you are. Fiction has plenty of immortal, very-powerful jackasses. And also some powerful, immortal, pathetic wretches.

[Peelee]

Do you tell the victims of a crime that they should just get over it, never mind that their attacker is still at large?

People hurt me, Keltest. Fundamentally. They have caused damage that won't heal despite my best efforts, and not only did they get away with it, the people whose job it is to prevent that harm or punish the people who inflict it was derelict in both duties. The people who hurt me suffered no consequence for it.

Let me fantasize about showing up and being objectively better than them to the degree that they must fall to their knees and weep with an impotent rage that their envy of my power will never be sated.

If someone had deliberately stabbed me in the kidneys, would you fault me for dreaming of taking one of their kidneys by force to replace what they'd robbed me of as I received dialysis? Is confidence or emotional stability not to the psyche what organs are to a body?

If someone commits a crime, the victims are not people you want in charge of prosecuting or dictating punishment. You get a disinterested third party.

Further, whatever crime has been done cannot be undone. In some situations there can be restitution, but if someone is stabbed in the kidney, they can never be un-stabbed, and what they see as justice and what justice actually is are very likely to be wildly different.

You, as the victim, are in a notably poor position to dictate what justice would be and what recompense those people should receive. It sucks to hear, but you are exceedingly unlikely to be objective (and, without knowing all the specifics, I still feel I can say that based upon your stated revenge fantasies, it is very likely that you are not able to be objective).

And while

If someone is so stupid and/or delusional that I could be immortal and all-powerful and they'd still think they were better than me and try to belittle and hurt me, then that just means that they're fundamentally broken and can safely be disregarded forever more.

That's still closure. Just a different closure.

Be more efficient to just skip the middle steps. Just sayin'.

[Rater202]

Being immortal or all powerful has no bearing on how good you are. Fiction has plenty of immortal, very-powerful jackasses. And also some powerful, immortal, pathetic wretches.

We are talking about very superficial people here.

A lot of them were almost stereotypical bullies.

[Peelee]

We are talking about very superficial people here.

A lot of them were almost stereotypical bullies.

In other words, the kind of people who would bully you regardless? The closure you want almost certainly wouldn't happen even in your ideal scenario, because they are very superficial, almost stereotypical bullies.

The best closure would likely be to let it go, forget them entirely, and live your life on your own terms.

[Fyraltari]

We are talking about very superficial people here.

A lot of them were almost stereotypical bullies.

Sorry, I didn't know I was dealing with a telepath.

[Lacco]

People hurt me, Keltest. Fundamentally. They have caused damage that won't heal despite my best efforts, and not only did they get away with it, the people whose job it is to prevent that harm or punish the people who inflict it was derelict in both duties. The people who hurt me suffered no consequence for it.

You are definitely not the only person here that was bullied. Trust me.

Also: the damage won't heal because you won't let it heal. Do you think a cut heals while you are poking it every minute...?

No. There are ways to heal, but this is not one of them. When you truly let go, when you decide to leave it behind and go for the best you can be - not to spite someone, but to live as well as you can - you will find out the wound does not itch so much. And later you will find you do not even remember the pain because you managed to live better than before.

Let me fantasize about showing up and being objectively better than them to the degree that they must fall to their knees and weep with an impotent rage that their envy of my power will never be sated.

I'll let you fantasize. I did it too.

Just know, that if you continue, one day it will be you who will fall to your knees and weep with impotent rage - it won't be the other way.

But if you wish to, you are an adult and you are responsible for your life. Live as you wish to. Good luck. I will not engage further if you wish to.

If someone had deliberately stabbed me in the kidneys, would you fault me for dreaming of taking one of their kidneys by force to replace what they'd robbed me of as I received dialysis? Is confidence or emotional stability not to the psyche what organs are to a body?

Stabbing back won't heal the wound faster. Just my 2 cents.

Be more efficient to just skip the middle steps. Just sayin'.

Great piece of advice. Also, I'd encourage everybody who dreams this way to read Monte Christo. The book. It's... basically about this. The desire for justice I can understand and get behind. The desire for revenge... will not lead to happiness.