A Wild Lurker Appears! Hyoi's Random Banter #232

[Peelee]

Wookiees (youre welcome Peelee)

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I almost deliberately spelled Peelee with one too few "e"s just to give you something to correct.

Given how many people call me "Pelee", it'd probably bring the average of the amount of E's up.

[Lord Raziere]

Im not really sure what "free spirit" looks like in terms of star wars. Especially in the context of KOTOR. There are very few areas where you act simply in the name of the law, and Kashyyk's arc fairly explicitly has you go against the technically-legal czerka corporation to free the Wookiees (youre welcome Peelee) from enslavement.

Okay to use a specific example: there is a moment where 3 Czerka employees are standing over the body of a dead wookieee. the light side option is to persuade Zaalbar (who has pretty good reason to kill these people, and its not as if we don't kill even more Czerka employees later) to not get rid of them for the sake of not seeking revenge, and the dark side option is to encourage him to kill the guys enslaving and killing his people for profit. personally I don't see why I would ever pick light side in this case. there is being good and then there is just being a doormat. like what, its only good to overthrow people oppressing you in large numbers to the sound of trumpets?

[Peelee]

wookie.

Wookiee. 2 E's.

[Lord Raziere]

Wookiee. 2 E's.

Got it, I've edited it to include two additional E's.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, it is kind of disappointing that bioware never grokked how to make Chaotic Good options.

The best morality system they've ever made is Dragon Age's, where this is no moralistic compass and it's just individualized meters telling you how much your friends respect you.

I'm still angry about how they dealt with Closed Fist and Open Palm in Jade Empire.

Halo 2 is one of the biggest disappointments I have ever experienced. Not enjoyable in any way, some of the things were needlessly nerfed (eg flashlight) beyond any reasonable usability, and the biggest gripe people had about the original - repetitive levels - was taken to 11.

I have nothing whatsoever good to say about Halo 2.

Huh.

to each their own I suppose.

[Lord Raziere]

The best morality system they've ever made is Dragon Age's, where this is no moralistic compass and it's just individualized meters telling you how much your friends respect you.

I'm still angry about how they dealt with Closed Fist and Open Palm in Jade Empire.

Agreed on Dragon Age.

I tried to play Jade Empire on modern PC. it was....how to describe it....I didn't know how to do anything because keyboard and mouse, so that was "fun". I can't remember if it crashed out or if I managed to somehow exit the game when I was done playing it, or if I just remember something on steam saying that it has crashes. either way, it wasn't the best experience, when back when I played it the original console I found it fun.

[Bartmanhomer]

Anyway, I'm thinking that I should write my Pokemon Let's Go story to be very dramatic, diverse, and inclusive full of LGBT characters.

[Rater202]

Yeah it's more "Paragon is a nice and respectful person" and "Renegade is Space Racist/Fascist"

Maybe in intent, but between what the LPer, who is a fan commenting on what he likes about the game and what he dislikes, and my own research on the matter says because I research things as I start to get into them, it's more "Paragon is trying to do the right thing... But also kissing the Citadel's ass even when they're stupid, incompetent, or acting like asshats" while Renegade options are "get the job done in the most practical and efficient manner possible and damn the rules and regulations, also be kind of a **** to people."

Notably, as a Specter, getting the job done and damn the rules and regulations is literally Shepard's job so it's kind of weird that that's coded as morally wrong.

Like, here are exceptions where the Paragon option involves breaking the law in favor of doing the right thing or talking down a man driven functionally insane by years of untreated PTSD instead of just killing him and his cult, but for the most part...

And so far.. The guy I'm watching play is trying to do a mostly paragon run("I'm not gonna eat **** every time, but..") and honestly a lot of the paragon options in the first game are a bit bipolar so far.

Apparently, the system is less about your personal morality and more about how people see you, but still, it rubs me the wrong way that, upon being solicited for your advice, the option that's coded as morally good is the one that involves telling a mother that it's okay that she wants to risk her baby's health instead of take the option with better odds of a healthy baby because it's her baby.

On Star Wars games: Honestly The Lightside and The Darkside being kind of wonky in what does and does not bring you into alignment with them makes sense to me.

I mean, Lucas tries to present the Jedi ad the Lightside ad Good and the Sith and Darkside as Evil, but between what he actually shows in his films and what countless other writers have written in both the Legends and New EU it honestly seems to be a lot more complicated than that.

Since using the Force is about your emotions, how you feel them, how you react to them, and how you use them, your intent and what you believe about how the Force Works should be a contributing factor to how it works.

Furthermore, the Force is a living thing that transcends time, has both creative and destructive, life-giving and parasitic, aspects, and is literally made up of everything that has ever lived and ever will. It has it's own Will, but...

I would not expect that Will to be consistent.

And, honestly, while the Sith are most definitely the clear-cut bad guys with maybe a handful of exceptions(The Inquisitor from The Old Republic is canonically a Lightsider... Though they're far from a typical Sith) the Jedi aren't nessesarily the god guys.

Their recruitment practices are dangerously close to the indoctrination of children, and young children: Nine years old is considered too old, and Ashoka Tano was a toddler when she was brought into the order.

Qui-Gon lies to Annakin and his mother when trying to recruit Anakin, and while his motives were good(save the young boy from slavery and teach him to control his godlike powers) but part of his motivation is because he thinks the boy in question is the figure of a Prophecy that the Jedi believe would be beneficial for them to come true* When verifying his theory by testing Anakin's midichlorian count to verify his potential power(as opposed to his current power,) he takes Annakin's blood without consulting him or his mother and lies about why he's taking it.

The Jedi outright lie to the republic about their powers, and a one-off line in Clone Wars established that Anakin has "obligations" to the Jedi order because he agreed to become a Space-Wizard when he wasn't even old enough to be curious about girls yet... Which raises the questions about whether or not the children brought in as toddlers who are never asked what they want are also expected to fulfill "Obligations" to the Order.

So it makes sense that Lightside and Darkside aren't clear-cut good and evil and can be a little wonky.

*Which is false: According to the novel Plageuis, Annakin was born from the Midichlorians being pissed off at Darth Plageuis's attempts to create life from nothing... Kind of backfired though.

[Form]

Okay to use a specific example: there is a moment where 3 Czerka employees are standing over the body of a dead wookieee. the light side option is to persuade Zaalbar (who has pretty good reason to kill these people, and its not as if we don't kill even more Czerka employees later) to not get rid of them for the sake of not seeking revenge, and the dark side option is to encourage him to kill the guys enslaving and killing his people for profit. personally I don't see why I would ever pick light side in this case. there is being good and then there is just being a doormat. like what, its only good to overthrow people oppressing you in large numbers to the sound of trumpets?

Maybe it's more of an issue of not killing them right then and there in vengeance and out of anger rather then letting them continue to enslave the wookiees? I think you can encourage the wookiees to rise up and repulse Czerka from the planet, which obviously involves violence and killing Czerka personnel. That was a light side option, right? It's been a while since I've played that game, so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

[Lord Raziere]

Maybe it's more of an issue of not killing them right then and there in vengeance and out of anger rather then letting them continue to enslave the wookiees? I think you can encourage the wookiees to rise up and repulse Czerka from the planet, which obviously involves violence and killing Czerka personnel. That was a light side option, right? It's been a while since I've played that game, so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

Yeah, the option does exist, that's the problem.

It doesn't MATTER if its out of vengeance and anger right there, they're going to be killed and driven off planet anyways. All those wookiees fighting in a large battle to get them off have some hate and vengeance in them. These people who've been killed and enslaved by those jerks wouldn't have some measure of anger as they slaughter them, its not as if there is as if there is a "right time for it", 3 dead Czerka employees is three less to kill later, and guess what you kill those three Czerka employees? it doesn't make the rest of the Czerka there hate you or anything, after this you can interact with them as normal. they either don't know or don't care, so either they didn't bother to check why three of their personnel went missing or they know things on the planet kill them back and don't care about the casualties, so it doesn't jeopardize your landing site, if you theoretically needed to do a more sneaky plan to get rid of them it wouldn't damage that, so there is no reason to choose light side in that instance other than to make the Force happy, which is just rewarding my consequentialism because I know I can get with away killing those 3 Czerka with nothing but a Force frowney face at me while I depart from Kashyyyk with the Wookiees free and happy.

so its literally killing three people that only helps your cause, it doesn't even have any effect because Czerka is so evil it doesn't care about its employees, and those employees were racist jerks who had just killed someone for no good reason, on a planet with the only law around being the Wookiees themselves who were being ruled by the guy selling them off to the slavers in the first place. This is why I'd rather play a smuggler/scoundrel in star wars than a jedi.

[factotum]

I'm still angry about how they dealt with Closed Fist and Open Palm in Jade Empire.

To be fair, that was the first time they attempted a morality system that wasn't supposed to be simple Good/Evil, it's maybe not surprising they didn't do a great job of it. Heck, even in Mass Effect they really didn't think through some of those choices--so my Renegade option is to allow the sex vampire who has an uncontrollable urge to kill people on my crew? Nope, that's the "insane" option that nobody even remotely reasonable would pick, no matter what their philosophy.

[asda fasda]

The Jedi outright lie to the republic about their powers, and a one-off line in Clone Wars established that Anakin has "obligations" to the Jedi order because he agreed to become a Space-Wizard when he wasn't even old enough to be curious about girls yet... Which raises the questions about whether or not the children brought in as toddlers who are never asked what they want are also expected to fulfill "Obligations" to the Order.

I try not to read to much about morality from pop-culture, especially trying to navigate between films, and games, comics, animated tv series, and books of Star Wars as they usually have different audience in mind and different goals which make interpretation of stuff between them quite inconsistent. As for morality It's usually more fun to just try read/listen directly to some philosophical stuff at this is much more deep and nuanced : )

That being said I always though that in order to understand second trilogy, you need to look at it through KOTOR story. In KOTOR there is this powerful arc in background of Jedi being corrupted by the war, which isn't exactly presented in the movies but I always interpreted that Jedi Order after Attack of the Clones wasn't the same as it was before, and corruption and dark side had much bigger influence on what they were doing just during the war they weren't able to see it.

Yeah, the option does exist, that's the problem.

It doesn't MATTER if its out of vengeance and anger right there, they're going to be killed and driven off planet anyways. All those wookiees fighting in a large battle to get them off have some hate and vengeance in them. These people who've been killed and enslaved by those jerks wouldn't have some measure of anger as they slaughter them, its not as if there is as if there is a "right time for it", 3 dead Czerka employees is three less to kill later, and guess what you kill those three Czerka employees? it doesn't make the rest of the Czerka there hate you or anything, after this you can interact with them as normal. they either don't know or don't care, so either they didn't bother to check why three of their personnel went missing or they know things on the planet kill them back and don't care about the casualties, so it doesn't jeopardize your landing site, if you theoretically needed to do a more sneaky plan to get rid of them it wouldn't damage that, so there is no reason to choose light side in that instance other than to make the Force happy, which is just rewarding my consequentialism because I know I can get with away killing those 3 Czerka with nothing but a Force frowney face at me while I depart from Kashyyyk with the Wookiees free and happy.

so its literally killing three people that only helps your cause, it doesn't even have any effect because Czerka is so evil it doesn't care about its employees, and those employees were racist jerks who had just killed someone for no good reason, on a planet with the only law around being the Wookiees themselves who were being ruled by the guy selling them off to the slavers in the first place. This is why I'd rather play a smuggler/scoundrel in star wars than a jedi.

I think the circumstance of the killing matters in moral sense, and to be honest that "there is no reason to choose light" and still doing it is I think is a definition of good deed (although philosophically speaking there are some other schools to that, but I prefer this one). If you chose right approach because it's more convenient are you really doing good deed ?

[Anonymouswizard]

The best morality system they've ever made is Dragon Age's, where this is no moralistic compass and it's just individualized meters telling you how much your friends respect you.

I'm still angry about how they dealt with Closed Fist and Open Palm in Jade Empire.

Yeah, Dragon Age was probably the best morality system just due to it effectively having so many axes due to being based on party relationship values. I think Obsidian topped it in Tyranny with it being dual scale with not only party members but also major NPCs and factions. Wish I hadn't got stuck on one of the quests, I should get back to it some time.

I think Obsidian also did Star Wars morality the best in KotOR2, but it has its own share of problems. Some great moments though thar fit with the system.

As to Jade Empire, urgh. I love the game, but wow they dropped a ball on the morality. Open Palm tends to be generally okay, even if it leans towards the more benevolent interpretation, but Closed Fist is a nightmare, including at least one instance of sticking to the philosophy giving less points than needless violence. I don't know if there's more than one instance, I've not done a Closed Fist run past the Pirate Worksop because they missed the philosophy for the evil. I'd have loved the run to be about making people solve their own problems, you come across people and try to learn what you need to do in order to make them bloom.

Some sidequests wouldn't change because you need to help these people to get the information for the main quest, but I'd have loved the ability to do a benevolent Closed Fist run.

Oh, and the ending, why does it give morality points? The game clearly shows that both philosophies would do option B, but I can see reasons for nothing philosophies to choose option A as well, I think that they should have given no points for either choice, or maybe give an OP and CF option for each that gives a small number of points.

Agreed on Dragon Age.

I tried to play Jade Empire on modern PC. it was....how to describe it....I didn't know how to do anything because keyboard and mouse, so that was "fun". I can't remember if it crashed out or if I managed to somehow exit the game when I was done playing it, or if I just remember something on steam saying that it has crashes. either way, it wasn't the best experience, when back when I played it the original console I found it fun.

I've never had it crash, although I've encountered the pirate workshop bug.

[LaZodiac]

To be fair, that was the first time they attempted a morality system that wasn't supposed to be simple Good/Evil, it's maybe not surprising they didn't do a great job of it. Heck, even in Mass Effect they really didn't think through some of those choices--so my Renegade option is to allow the sex vampire who has an uncontrollable urge to kill people on my crew? Nope, that's the "insane" option that nobody even remotely reasonable would pick, no matter what their philosophy.

What sucks is that they have a lot of clearly well written philosophy and lore about it. They should not have ****ed it up this badly!

Yeah, Dragon Age was probably the best morality system just due to it effectively having so many axes due to being based on party relationship values. I think Obsidian topped it in Tyranny with it being dual scale with not only party members but also major NPCs and factions. Wish I hadn't got stuck on one of the quests, I should get back to it some time.

I think Obsidian also did Star Wars morality the best in KotOR2, but it has its own share of problems. Some great moments though thar fit with the system.

As to Jade Empire, urgh. I love the game, but wow they dropped a ball on the morality. Open Palm tends to be generally okay, even if it leans towards the more benevolent interpretation, but Closed Fist is a nightmare, including at least one instance of sticking to the philosophy giving less points than needless violence. I don't know if there's more than one instance, I've not done a Closed Fist run past the Pirate Worksop because they missed the philosophy for the evil. I'd have loved the run to be about making people solve their own problems, you come across people and try to learn what you need to do in order to make them bloom.

Some sidequests wouldn't change because you need to help these people to get the information for the main quest, but I'd have loved the ability to do a benevolent Closed Fist run.

Oh, and the ending, why does it give morality points? The game clearly shows that both philosophies would do option B, but I can see reasons for nothing philosophies to choose option A as well, I think that they should have given no points for either choice, or maybe give an OP and CF option for each that gives a small number of points.

There are many instances of them just writing Closed Fist as "what if you did the most evil thing" and it ****ing infuriates me; especially because one of the biggest choices is COMPLETELY backwards. If you know the one I'm talking about, you'll get it immediately.

[Anonymouswizard]

What sucks is that they have a lot of clearly well written philosophy and lore about it. They should not have ****ed it up this badly!



There are many instances of them just writing Closed Fist as "what if you did the most evil thing" and it ****ing infuriates me; especially because one of the biggest choices is COMPLETELY backwards. If you know the one I'm talking about, you'll get it immediately.

I mean, if it's the pirate workshop choice then it also annoyed me enough that I stopped playing Closed Fist, then getting one choice backwards wouldn't shock me. Which is a strange, as the actual philosophy (witch bills down to Harmony versus Self Discipline at a really basic level) it's actually interesting and worthy of a game entirely dedicated to it. Maybe something like a Wuxia Ultima IV, there's no big bad but your goal is to become a paragon of one of the belief systems and lead the Empire into a golden age.

Darn it, I really want to ruin a Wuxia game now. Maybe I'll see if I can recruit people for a Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades campaign once I've moved.

[Keltest]

Okay to use a specific example: there is a moment where 3 Czerka employees are standing over the body of a dead wookieee. the light side option is to persuade Zaalbar (who has pretty good reason to kill these people, and its not as if we don't kill even more Czerka employees later) to not get rid of them for the sake of not seeking revenge, and the dark side option is to encourage him to kill the guys enslaving and killing his people for profit. personally I don't see why I would ever pick light side in this case. there is being good and then there is just being a doormat. like what, its only good to overthrow people oppressing you in large numbers to the sound of trumpets?

Because brutally murdering people for the sake of bloodlust is wrong? The question isnt whether killing them is ok in and of itself, but whether Zaalbar is in a healthy headspace. We know that Zaalbar is on some levels ashamed of his instincts to kill people like that, and that he actively doesnt want to descend to the level of being one of the forest beasts that kills without thought.

[Fyraltari]

[Influence gained: Kreia]
[Influence lost: Kreia]

[Mystic Muse]

Anyway, I'm thinking that I should write my Pokemon Let's Go story to be very dramatic, diverse, and inclusive full of LGBT characters.

Are you LGBT, or do you have several people you can talk to who are LGBT?

If the answer to both these questions is no, I would avoid doing this.

[LaZodiac]

I mean, if it's the pirate workshop choice then it also annoyed me enough that I stopped playing Closed Fist, then getting one choice backwards wouldn't shock me. Which is a strange, as the actual philosophy (witch bills down to Harmony versus Self Discipline at a really basic level) it's actually interesting and worthy of a game entirely dedicated to it. Maybe something like a Wuxia Ultima IV, there's no big bad but your goal is to become a paragon of one of the belief systems and lead the Empire into a golden age.

Darn it, I really want to ruin a Wuxia game now. Maybe I'll see if I can recruit people for a Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades campaign once I've moved.

Nope there is a worse one after that.

[Influence gained: Kreia]
[Influence lost: Kreia]

[Morrigan Disapproves]

[Lord Raziere]

[Morrigan Disapproves]

See this is why the Dragon Age morality system was the best one: it simply said "what kind of person wouldn't like you doing good things?" then when you started doing them, it acted as a litmus test for who should be your friend and who just be an ally your using for the greater good even if they are a jerk.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm aware that this is a sympton of the game not being complete upon release, but I'm still annoyed at the "choice" at Nar Shadaa in KOtOR 2 where a guy asks you for a few cedits, and Kreia lectures you no matter what you choose.

[Keltest]

See this is why the Dragon Age morality system was the best one: it simply said "what kind of person wouldn't like you doing good things?" then when you started doing them, it acted as a litmus test for who should be your friend and who just be an ally your using for the greater good even if they are a jerk.

And then there was Sten, who disapproved when you went out of your way to be a good guy, and then approved when you told him that you were in charge and he needs to shut up and follow orders. And is a dog person.

[LaZodiac]

See this is why the Dragon Age morality system was the best one: it simply said "what kind of person wouldn't like you doing good things?" then when you started doing them, it acted as a litmus test for who should be your friend and who just be an ally your using for the greater good even if they are a jerk.

And then there was Sten, who disapproved when you went out of your way to be a good guy, and then approved when you told him that you were in charge and he needs to shut up and follow orders. And is a dog person.

The best part about the approval system is that it introduced such nice subtle characterization. Seeing who does and does not approve certain actions was my favorite part of the game; especially when it reveals hidden depths.

[Keltest]

The best part about the approval system is that it introduced such nice subtle characterization. Seeing who does and does not approve certain actions was my favorite part of the game; especially when it reveals hidden depths.

I certainly like it more than, say, the way alignment worked in Neverwinter Nights 2.

Especially in inquisition, it became sort of a game to predict how people would react to certain things. Cole is big on punishing people who hurt other people needlessly, but has a specific thing about putting them in jail because of his own experiences, in which case he really, really doesnt like it. Likewise, he knows that he is dangerous and has hurt people while thinking he was helping them, so he approves of a certain level of paranoia about him, as long as you dont completely stop him out of hand.

Its also interesting to see who gets along with each other. Cole and Blackwall get along pretty well, which might surprise you when you learn their backstories, but when they actually explain their thought processes, they... compliment each others' concerns about themselves.

[Rater202]

Are you LGBT, or do you have several people you can talk to who are LGBT?

If the answer to both these questions is no, I would avoid doing this.

Also, gonna be honest, if your goal is diversity you shouldn't include a bunch of LGBT people.

You should include one or two well-rounded developed characters who happen to be LGBT among a cast of other well-rounded characters who happen to be other things.

Like, unless the focus of a story is LGBT issues, a character being trans or gay or bi or nonbinary shouldn't be something that comes up particularly often.

Like, I don't want to say "what else are they" because that logic is often used by people trying to gatekeep and keep gays or ethnic minorities out of fiction, but if a character's defining character trait is that they're LGBT, or worse, if that' their own character trait... That's bad writing.

My default example for a good was to include diversity is Koi Boi from Unbeatable Squirrel Girl. Koi Boi has "all the powers of boy and koi," being able to breathe underwater, talk to fish, swim really good, change in size to adapt to the volume of his container, and jump long distances by bouncing on his belly.

Koi Boi is also FTM trans.

We only know this because there's a scene where the heroes have to change clothes in an alley and Koi Boi's undergarments include a breast binder. No one er draws attention to it, and the story never really goes places where his Trans status is relevant.

The writer included trans representation by treating a character being trans as being so normal that it's not commented on.

In a cast of characters that includes a Canadian superhero fangirl-turned-hero with a major interest in computer science, her best friend/maybe more, a African-American cat lover and webcomic artist who has the dubious honor of being Loki's favorite mortal, a Hispanic man whose major character beat is that he's a 'hunk,' and a nihilistic german cyborg. Race/ethnicity, sexuality, and gender status never come up because there's no reason for it to come up because those are all normal things.

The best ay to show diversity is to show different people interacting with each other as if it was normal.

Bugsnax is another good example of diversity.

The cast of characters involves two heterosexual couples, two homosexual couples, and several characters who are single, one of whom is Nonbinary.

While the characters don't quite get equal attention due to being introduced at later times so there are fewer sidequests involving some characters than others, all four couples are treated with roughly equal seriousness and value and all of the storylines feel complete nd well worked on.

And, most importantly, nobody comments on it. Pople talk about how obvious it is that Snorpy is in love with Chandlo and he should just come out and say it but nobody comments on how they're both guys and the narrative and the other characters treat their relationship as just as valid as Wampus and Triffany.

Likewise, nobody out and out says that Floofty is Nonbinory or acts like it's something worth commenting on. We know they're Nonbinary because everyone refers to them with they pronouns and non-gendered terms. Characters commenting on Floofty focus on their lack of scientific ethics and odd behaviors, but at no point is their nonbinary status treated as one of their quirks. It's just... Not commented on.

...Can I just plug Bugsnax here? It's a very lovely story that manages to be adorable, touching, and occasionally terrifying at the same time and manages to address some serious issues without being preachy. You honestly wouldn't expect that from something that looks like a rejected muppet script but it works.

[Peelee]

Sure, yeah! If ya have the Steam version, we could arrange something! Just shoot me a PM and we can try and find a day and time or whatever.

Not on steam, but there should be cross play with MCC on Xbox, so we should still be good. Unless you want to co-op campaign (which I'm always for), in which case I have no objection to getting it on steam so long as i can hook up my Xbox controller to it.

Because brutally murdering people for the sake of bloodlust is wrong? The question isnt whether killing them is ok in and of itself, but whether Zaalbar is in a healthy headspace. We know that Zaalbar is on some levels ashamed of his instincts to kill people like that, and that he actively doesnt want to descend to the level of being one of the forest beasts that kills without thought.

Aye. If someone is going to die in battle tomorrow that does not justify murdering them today.

[Influence gained: Kreia]
[Influence lost: Kreia]

That was always the best.

[Lord Raziere]

I'm aware that this is a sympton of the game not being complete upon release, but I'm still annoyed at the "choice" at Nar Shadaa in KOtOR 2 where a guy asks you for a few cedits, and Kreia lectures you no matter what you choose.

Yeah, even if there was a third option like "Sorry I don't have any to spare", Kreia might still lecture you- but instead of admonishing a chaotic evil wannabe sith, or questioning a token act of good, she would probably be talking about how neutrality and apathy changes nothing and that power you don't use isn't power at all. the theoretical fourth option she would praise I think is offering the beggar credits but only if the beggar does something in return to be useful to you like providing information or being your eyes and ears on this planet, thus incentivizing him to think about how he can solve his problems himself by figuring out how he contribute to others so that they find value in him.....

which would be a good bit of philosophy if he wasn't on Nar Shaddaa, where with this kind of environment and culture around him, you can't really blame him for not pulling himself "up by his bootstraps", when the entire world he lives on is "Mafia: The Planet" and thus trying to be useful to one gang could legitimately get him killed by another. that and he is probably a refugee or war vet like many on Nar Shaddaa during this time and thus probably has trauma from either the Mandalorian or Jedi Civil War and thus is probably not in the best mental state, and I doubt Nar Shaddaa has any legitimate psychologists or social services in general to help him. In theory the five credits is the moral option since you'd think he'd hide those and use them to get food or something when needed, when Kreia's speech and the resulting cutscene implies that for some reason he is foolish enough to let it slip that he has money on him to a fellow beggar who probably has it just as hard as he does, gets jealous or figures "its my survival I gotta think about, not yours" and does what he does because of the circumstances they live in.

like sure she is questioning the binary moral choice here, but she herself doesn't realize her own philosophy is basically "be pragmatically selfish" and that this whole moon is already that philosophy writ large and what it results in.

Aye. If someone is going to die in battle tomorrow that does not justify murdering them today.

An odd sentiment, I'd think people coming in, killing and enslaving someone's kind and killing an innocent in front of me would be enough of a declaration of war to think that the battle has been going on long before I arrived.

[Keltest]

There is a good reason that i no longer have any save files with high Kreia approval, and its not because its especially hard to get. She's just awful and deserves to be told so to her face.

[Fyraltari]

See this is why the Dragon Age morality system was the best one: it simply said "what kind of person wouldn't like you doing good things?" then when you started doing them, it acted as a litmus test for who should be your friend and who just be an ally your using for the greater good even if they are a jerk.

So, it's not a morality system, then? Because that sounds like a relationship system.

[LaZodiac]

Also, gonna be honest, if your goal is diversity you shouldn't include a bunch of LGBT people.

Some notes.

She was saying he should get sensitivity readers.

You're not wrong that it should be addressed casually, like it's not a big deal, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have multiple LGBTA characters, and that shouldn't mean they exist PURELY by assumption. Explicit confirmation is good- even if it's so much as using they pronouns and maybe bringing it up once or twice.

Those are some good examples, though I can imagine some people saying Koi Boy isn't "really" trans, because of the slight ambiguity. Also Bugsnax does in fact rule a lot.

So yeah, mostly agreed, but needs a bit rewording in places.

@Fyraltari: It's a mortality system in that it is your allies judging your morality and how they feel about it.