Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

[Blackhawk748]

Nobody makes you do anything. That's the trick.
You can still use Tactical Marines. There actually isn't anything stopping you from using Tactical Marines. Why are you mad?

Wrong, they made all the Ork players have to rebase their 100+ Ork boys onto 32mm bases so they could justify a 5 dollar price change on the box.

And if it turns into a Tactical vs Primaris problem, well, you know exactly how that goes.

[Fable Wright]

Also, it's 9th Ed. Nobody's army should feature even close to 100 models ever again.

Uh

What? Top tyranid lists at the moment are something like 40 Hormagaunts and 30-60 Termagants. Drukhari causing them to pivot to 60 Termagants instead of a Dimachaeron.

Genestealer Cults have no elite infantry units to pivot to. They can't, as a concept, get away from spam.

And Imperial Guard not having masses of infantry seems deeply, deeply wrong.

[Lord Torath]

Anyone else think that Imperial flyer on the cover of Wrath of Angels (Day 4) looks like a Battlestar: Galactica Viper knock-off?

As far as the orks, it's nice that they're painting them in brighter greens, I guess.

Looking at the map of Ghur... what exactly are we looking at? Did someone terraform Warhammer World to look like a pair of chaos beasts attacking each other? Is that seriously what the land masses are supposed to look like?

[Brookshw]

Anyone else think that Imperial flyer on the cover of Wrath of Angels (Day 4) looks like a Battlestar: Galactica Viper knock-off?

Not sure what pic you're referring to, but there's definitely an Imp. Flyer that's spot on BS:G. (This guy comes to mind)

[9mm]

Looking at the map of Ghur... what exactly are we looking at? Did someone terraform Warhammer World to look like a pair of chaos beasts attacking each other? Is that seriously what the land masses are supposed to look like?

Ghur is the Realm of Beasts, so the fact that the landmasses just might actually be giant godbeasts would be on brand.

[Cheesegear]

Wrong, they made all the Ork players have to rebase their 100+ Ork boys onto 32mm bases so they could justify a 5 dollar price change on the box.

Well, you can just buy bases. Rebasing your existing models isn't that hard, nor that expensive (comparitively).

And if it turns into a Tactical vs Primaris problem...

Again, I don't know to what problem you are referring to.
I can still use Tactical Marines and Scouts, and almost all other Firstborn units. Any implication that I can't, is by the consumer, and therefore not true.

The real problem is Legends'ing stuff. No-one ever re-brings that up constantly. Even though it proves that there's a Sword of Damocles hanging over every unit you've ever loved.

[Lord Torath]

Not sure what pic you're referring to, but there's definitely an Imp. Flyer that's spot on BS:G. (This guy comes to mind)

Spoiler: The wings look shorter in this shot

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[Brookshw]

Spoiler: The wings look shorter in this shot

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Seems like it's the angle, either way I agree on the BS:G appearance.

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

Looking at the map of Ghur... what exactly are we looking at? Did someone terraform Warhammer World to look like a pair of chaos beasts attacking each other? Is that seriously what the land masses are supposed to look like?

This is more of an Age of Sigmar thread thing, but...
the Old World BECAME the Twin Tailed Comet, renamed Mallus, just the metallic core of the planet, that now hangs over Sigmar's palace city on the Realm of Azyr (alongside one of it's two moons, Mannslieb).

Ghur is one of the 8 Realms that were discovered and repopulated. Ghur specifically is the Land of Beasts, a land of savagery, conflict, hunger, brutality. The idea is that even the very continents are locked in a cannibalistic battle of supremacy, devouring each other.

[Cheesegear]

Uh

What? Top tyranid lists at the moment are something like 40 Hormagaunts and 30-60 Termagants. Drukhari causing them to pivot to 60 Termagants instead of a Dimachaeron.

I looked that up. Can't find what you're talking about. I see 40-60 Hormagaunts or 40-60 Termagants. I can't find a list with both units. Mostly I'm finding Tyranid Warriors and Rippers, because Tyranid Troops are trash.

I think the bigger problem is that high-tier Tyranid Lists are utterly reliant on Forge World units.

However, I did find a few 100+ model Ork armies. 90 (3x30, for a Battalion) Boyz + MSU everything else gets you to about 110 models, in a 9th Ed. Ork army. So I'll take that back.
Tyranids? ...No. Not the same.

[Fable Wright]

I looked that up. Can't find what you're talking about. I see 40-60 Hormagaunts or 40-60 Termagants. I can't find a list with both units. Mostly I'm finding Tyranid Warriors and Rippers, because Tyranid Troops are trash.

I think the bigger problem is that high-tier Tyranid Lists are utterly reliant on Forge World units.

However, I did find a few 100+ model Ork armies. 90 (3x30, for a Battalion) Boyz + MSU everything else gets you to about 110 models, in a 9th Ed. Ork army. So I'll take that back.
Tyranids? ...No. Not the same.

It's the Colin Sherman/John Lennon Double Dimacharon list that swept the Salt Classic GT end of February.

Spoiler: The List

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Hive Fleet Kronos patrol:

Neurothrope (symbiostorm) 95

3x Rippers 36

10 Hormagaunts 60

6x Hive Guard (Impaler Cannons, Enhanced resistance) 270

Exocrine 170

Hive Fleet Kraken Battalion

The Swarmlord (Catalyst, Paroxysm, Warlord: no trait) 270

Hive Tyrant (Wings, Adrenal Glands, Rending Claws, Devourers, Onslaught, Psychic Scream) 210

10 Hormagaunts 60

20 Hormagaunts 120

30 Termagants (30 Devourers) 210

Lictor 37

Dimachaeron 230

Dimachaeron (Accelerated Digestion) 230

Lennon mentioned in his podcast that if he were to run this list in a post-Drukhari meta, he'd be dropping the non-Accelerated Digestion Dimachaeron for a second Devilgant bomb if he was going to be playing 'Nids. That's 10 Kronos Hormagaunts, 30 Kraken Hormagaunts, and 30 Kraken Termagants to start. Total of 92 models for this tournament winning list.

[Hootman]

Since orks have been mentioned, I have been summoned to ask another silly question.

By Battlescribe, Nob Bikerz are 30ppm (40ppm with Klaws) and Meganobz are...I think 38ppm stock. I had heard that people were using Meganobz a lot for things, since they're 3W, 2+.

My question is this: Is the extra 10" of movement on the Bikerz worth only having 4+ saves for functionally the same price? Are people using them, and I just don't hear about it because generally no one is bothered by what orks are up to?
Getting into combat on turn 1 isn't too difficult for Evil Suns bikes (14+2" move, 1d6+1" advance, 2d6+1" rerolling charge, average threat range 28.5" before rerolls), and Meganobz don't have any T1 delivery systems I'm aware of. Unless Da Jump lands, but that's only one unit.

[JNAProductions]

Since orks have been mentioned, I have been summoned to ask another silly question.

By Battlescribe, Nob Bikerz are 30ppm (40ppm with Klaws) and Meganobz are...I think 38ppm stock. I had heard that people were using Meganobz a lot for things, since they're 3W, 2+.

My question is this: Is the extra 10" of movement on the Bikerz worth only having 4+ saves for functionally the same price? Are people using them, and I just don't hear about it because generally no one is bothered by what orks are up to?
Getting into combat on turn 1 isn't too difficult for Evil Suns bikes (14+2" move, 1d6+1" advance, 2d6+1" rerolling charge, average threat range 28.5" before rerolls), and Meganobz don't have any T1 delivery systems I'm aware of. Unless Da Jump lands, but that's only one unit.

They're 35 in Codex, 30 in Forgeworld. The Munitorium Field Manual is still bad.

[Forum Explorer]

Since orks have been mentioned, I have been summoned to ask another silly question.

By Battlescribe, Nob Bikerz are 30ppm (40ppm with Klaws) and Meganobz are...I think 38ppm stock. I had heard that people were using Meganobz a lot for things, since they're 3W, 2+.

My question is this: Is the extra 10" of movement on the Bikerz worth only having 4+ saves for functionally the same price? Are people using them, and I just don't hear about it because generally no one is bothered by what orks are up to?
Getting into combat on turn 1 isn't too difficult for Evil Suns bikes (14+2" move, 1d6+1" advance, 2d6+1" rerolling charge, average threat range 28.5" before rerolls), and Meganobz don't have any T1 delivery systems I'm aware of. Unless Da Jump lands, but that's only one unit.

Well I'm not sure how well they'd operate against Drukhari. Probably be better than Meganobs actually, though they'd get absolutely melted by Liquifiers.

Anyways, I'd say they were worse, because Meganobs did a lot of sitting on Objectives, and being tougher mattered a lot for that. Also Meganobs have a stratagem to boost their damage which is also really important.

[Wraith]

Rules for Morvehn Vahl - the recently revealed Sisters of Battle High-Abbess-in-Baby Carrier - have been teased on WarCom.

I'm seeing Primarch-lite. If she costs less than 400pts, I will be a little bit surprised; if she's under 350pts I'll be amazed. Do SoB's need a top-heavy HQ or Lord of War? Neat, but without Psykery to match her up to Mortarion or Magnus I think she's going to be hard to justify.

[Hootman]

They're 35 in Codex, 30 in Forgeworld. The Munitorium Field Manual is still bad.

The same unit, with the same stats, exists in two different places? With different costs? That's...baffling. I would understand if my numbers were just out of date in the basic sense, but you seem to be suggesting something quite different.

That 5pt bump does make a considerable dent in their affordability, assuming you never planned on giving the Megaz a Trukk to ride in...

Well I'm not sure how well they'd operate against Drukhari. Probably be better than Meganobs actually, though they'd get absolutely melted by Liquifiers.

Anyways, I'd say they were worse, because Meganobs did a lot of sitting on Objectives, and being tougher mattered a lot for that. Also Meganobs have a stratagem to boost their damage which is also really important.

I see. Being slow is less of an issue if you can play king of the hill effectively instead of being aggressive. And the damage boost for clutch punches does make sense as a selling point. I wish the guns on Bikerz mattered. They've always been my favorite way of just dumping dakka down range before a charge, but with orks never having AP-anything guns and half the things in the game getting extra wounds, they're much less fun than they used to be.

[Forum Explorer]

I see. Being slow is less of an issue if you can play king of the hill effectively instead of being aggressive. And the damage boost for clutch punches does make sense as a selling point. I wish the guns on Bikerz mattered. They've always been my favorite way of just dumping dakka down range before a charge, but with orks never having AP-anything guns and half the things in the game getting extra wounds, they're much less fun than they used to be.

The guns would matter for a different army to be fair. Mass shots are important. But Orks have that in abundance already so the guns more come off as redundant on the bikers.

[Blackhawk748]

Rules for Morvehn Vahl - the recently revealed Sisters of Battle High-Abbess-in-Baby Carrier - have been teased on WarCom.

I'm seeing Primarch-lite. If she costs less than 400pts, I will be a little bit surprised; if she's under 350pts I'll be amazed. Do SoB's need a top-heavy HQ or Lord of War? Neat, but without Psykery to match her up to Mortarion or Magnus I think she's going to be hard to justify.

Not one that's that expensive no. Hell, Celestine, at her much lower price, was a bit of an ask. Its just that she was really, really useful so we paid it.

Also 4++ and 4++ for Motal Wounds. Oh lovely we're continuing that trend.

Aaaaand she stole Gazghkull's schtick. Brain misfire, please ignore

Sigh. Every time I look at her I'm like, "you were this close to just having someone use the old Power Armor from Inquisitor!" but then we had to make a baby carrier. And put a High Lord in it. For reasons.

Spoiler: The Armor in question

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Like...scaling that up wouldn't be that silly! they'd be inside. SAFE!

[Wraith]

I may have pulled those numbers directly out of my butt - I was just reading down the list of Things that she has got, all her weapons have two modes, two different buffs, ways to halve incoming and double out-going damage and was really impressed... But then I realised just what I was comparing her to in the case of Magnus, and she ain't a Primarch. Not even a 30k Primarch, in some cases.

As for the big, baroque Inquisitor armour, I agree with you. Put her in a big, gnarly-looking "Centurion-style" suit and cover is in studs and purity seals and I will love it. Still, there's still the vague rumour of a Codex: Agents of the Imperium that resurfaces every so often - a joint Inquisition/Assassins/Sisters of Silence may yet come to pass, though hope for minis is probably quite scarce.

[Forum Explorer]

Not one that's that expensive no. Hell, Celestine, at her much lower price, was a bit of an ask. Its just that she was really, really useful so we paid it.

Also 4++ and 4++ for Motal Wounds. Oh lovely we're continuing that trend.

Aaaaand she stole Gazghkull's schtick.

Sigh. Every time I look at her I'm like, "you were this close to just having someone use the old Power Armor from Inquisitor!" but then we had to make a baby carrier. And put a High Lord in it. For reasons.

Spoiler: The Armor in question

Show

Like...scaling that up wouldn't be that silly! they'd be inside. SAFE!

What schtick? She doesn't have 4 wounds per phase, she doesn't have advance and charge, she doesn't have +1 attack. So what specifically are you referring to?

[Blackhawk748]

What schtick? She doesn't have 4 wounds per phase, she doesn't have advance and charge, she doesn't have +1 attack. So what specifically are you referring to?

Sorry, forgot that Gazghkull doesn't halve damage a while after I wrote that and never got around to fixing it. So ignore.

I may have pulled those numbers directly out of my butt - I was just reading down the list of Things that she has got, all her weapons have two modes, two different buffs, ways to halve incoming and double out-going damage and was really impressed... But then I realised just what I was comparing her to in the case of Magnus, and she ain't a Primarch. Not even a 30k Primarch, in some cases.

As for the big, baroque Inquisitor armour, I agree with you. Put her in a big, gnarly-looking "Centurion-style" suit and cover is in studs and purity seals and I will love it. Still, there's still the vague rumour of a Codex: Agents of the Imperium that resurfaces every so often - a joint Inquisition/Assassins/Sisters of Silence may yet come to pass, though hope for minis is probably quite scarce.

The funny part is, you could leave the suit she is currently in exactly the same, except move her back so she's completely inside and I'd probably be fine with it.

[LansXero]

The funny part is, you could leave the suit she is currently in exactly the same, except move her back so she's completely inside and I'd probably be fine with it.

Would you? She looks like a Protectorate warjack but less stylish.

The Chapter Master aura is neat, but it'll be all up to slot and costs. Hopefully she is not a LoW.

[Renegade Paladin]

She'll probably be a Supreme Commander, so as to be eligible for a Supreme Command detachment.

[Blackhawk748]

Would you? She looks like a Protectorate warjack but less stylish.

The Chapter Master aura is neat, but it'll be all up to slot and costs. Hopefully she is not a LoW.

Probably. I like pretty much every Warjack and I don't hate the walker. I hate the baby carrier on the front.

[Cheesegear]

She looks like a Protectorate warjack but less stylish.

I lol'd pretty hard.
Imagine being less stylish than a Warjack.

[Eldan]

Oh damn, she does.

Though that's probably just a general shared love for top-heavy pauldrons.

[hamishspence]

Probably. I like pretty much every Warjack and I don't hate the walker. I hate the baby carrier on the front.

While the arms are separate from the suit arms, I think the suit looks much less "baby-carrier-ish" than the Dreadknight does, with the pilot being further in, and better protected, rather than on the very front.

I'd characterise it as midway between the Centurion and the Dreadknight.

[LansXero]

*squints at the Dallas Open results*

no bet, "better autocannon the faction" will do just fine.

[Fable Wright]

That appears to be a tournament where the top 8 held a 1-5 Knights list and where Drukhari was undefeated but got in second because battle points rather than game wins determined placement.

[Renegade Paladin]

Tempted to take this when I get back to tournaments just for laughs (and to screw with Dark Eldar), but probably won't.

Spoiler: IT IS THE BANEBLAAAAADE!

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++ Super-Heavy Detachment -6CP (Imperium - Imperial Guard) [92 PL, 6CP, 1,670pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-6CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ Lord of War +

Baneblade [30 PL, 550pts]
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon

Baneblade [30 PL, 550pts]
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon

Shadowsword [32 PL, 570pts]
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon
. Lascannon & Twin Heavy Bolter Sponson: Lascannon

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Guard) [19 PL, 330pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost

Regimental Doctrine: 55th Kappic Eagles

+ HQ +

Lord Commissar [3 PL, 40pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 40pts]: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol, Warlord

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Flyer +

Valkyries [7 PL, 120pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser

++ Total: [111 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++

The list presents no infantry targets until I want it to, and everything there is to hit is either flying or T8, W26, and good luck torrenting that down with a Succubus. It's still a hilariously bad idea, though.

Okay, so the terrain for the event is going to look roughly like this TO-provided sample table picture. With that in mind, a non-meme list:

Spoiler: SHATTER THEIR SKIES!

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++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Guard) [74 PL, 12CP, 1,420pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 35pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Warlord, WT: Grand Strategist

Primaris Psyker [3 PL, 50pts]: Mental Fortitude, Nightshroud

Tank Commander [12 PL, 225pts]: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
. 2 Heavy Bolters

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 75pts]
. 5x Guardsman: 5x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 75pts]
. 5x Guardsman: 5x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 80pts]
. 5x Guardsman: 5x Lasgun
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [2 PL, 35pts]: Psychic Barrier, Telepathica Stave

Bullgryns [5 PL, 105pts]
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn Bone 'ead: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul

Commissar [2 PL, 30pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks [21 PL, 375pts]
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 190pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
. . 2 Heavy Bolters

Manticore [8 PL, 145pts]: Heavy Bolter

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Imperial Guard) [32 PL, -2CP, 580pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

Regimental Doctrine: 55th Kappic Eagles

+ HQ +

Lord Commissar [3 PL, 45pts]: Bolt pistol, Power fist

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 40pts]: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Elites +

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestus Scion: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestus Scion: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestus Scion w/ Medi-pack: Hot-Shot Lasgun, Medi-pack

+ Flyer +

Valkyries [7 PL, 120pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser

Valkyries [7 PL, 120pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser

++ Total: [106 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

The general idea is indirect fire to take advantage of/ignore the massive amount of terrain, and air-delivered Scions (with the Precision Drop strat if necessary) to get places while ignoring the massive amount of terrain. I'm considering the utility of Tank Ace to give Full Payload to the Manticore and/or Progeny of Conflict to give the Tempestor Prime a Master Vox. I also need to decide on a relic; I might just default to Relic of Lost Cadia.