A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #991
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    The Manticore's stock is rising. Might have to start running my Russ Demolisher again too.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  2. - Top - End - #992
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    I quite like Orks being T5 - makes them comparably tough to new marines but in a mechanically different way. They've still got bugger-all for saves.

    I loved the Ork guide so far, but was expecting stuff about the various kinds of Waaagh- is that in the Warboss's profile?
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  3. - Top - End - #993
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Im honestly not certain if i dont think its more fitting Orcs are T4 W2.
    It seems less the case of being unable to injury them with small weapons. And more that you need to do it a LOT before they go down.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I loved the Ork guide so far, but was expecting stuff about the various kinds of Waaagh- is that in the Warboss's profile?
    Many thanks. And yes, the Waaagh! rules will be appearing in Part 2 with the various HQ choices, as that rule is tied directly to them, and can change a lot about the core (and CORE) of an Ork army.



    Also, I edited in the Secondary Objectives now, so Part 1 is complete (barring anyone catching any huge mistakes or anything).

  5. - Top - End - #995
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Im honestly not certain if i dont think its more fitting Orcs are T4 W2.
    It seems less the case of being unable to injury them with small weapons. And more that you need to do it a LOT before they go down.
    This is more or less my opinion on the matter. Orks have kinda always been like that, Nobs had 2W forever, they're generally just portrayed as taking a stupid amount of damage to go down (from people-sized guns, not Bolters, Bolters work fine) and often times not caring if they lost a limb.

    Them being the same Toughness as a Plague Marine feels... weird. Especially because they could have just had the Beastsnaggers get the +1 T instead of the +1 W and they'd still be distinct.

    Unless they didn't want a freaking horde of 2W models, and I get that, but now there's a horde of T5 models and Im not sure if that's better.
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  6. - Top - End - #996
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    I think they missed a chance to make Plague Marines someting like T3 W3 xD
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    To break it down to be more clear:

    I'm not sure how much me writing Guides is...Effective.
    Well, for what it's worth, it was reading your faction guides that got me into 40k. So, thanks for making the effort anyways.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Oh boy, that Ork FAQ/Errata came out *real* quick. The book only came into stock at my FLGS on Monday. Not that the information hasn't been out there for a while with the weird release, but it's sort of funny that they did it before several new model kits have become available. Seems backwards to their usual "wait until everyone buys 20 of the new broken thing, then nerf it".

    Gonna have to make some edits to my previous post to account for it, and adjust the stuff I was writing for Part 2. Not surprising, just a disappointment or two, and still some missing information.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    Oh boy, that Ork FAQ/Errata came out *real* quick. The book only came into stock at my FLGS on Monday. Not that the information hasn't been out there for a while with the weird release, but it's sort of funny that they did it before several new model kits have become available. Seems backwards to their usual "wait until everyone buys 20 of the new broken thing, then nerf it".

    Gonna have to make some edits to my previous post to account for it, and adjust the stuff I was writing for Part 2. Not surprising, just a disappointment or two, and still some missing information.
    The same thing sorta happened with Ad Mech, because SOMEONE thought Enriched Rounds working on 4+ was ok
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Looks like the next Kill Team box will be Sisters Of Battle - a new unit called Novitiates - versus T'au Pathfinders (which seem to be normal pathfinders with an expansion sprue?)

    I'm into this, I think, and could be persuaded to pick it up in order to have some 40k terrain.

    The rumor mill has it that T'au will be the next book after Black Templars, with a fairly small release, followed by some (frankly a bit wishlisty) stuff for Craftworld Eldar, which would be very cool. My own Kill Team is some old metal Eldar Rangers, so I'd be very excited to combine them with fancy new guardians.
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  11. - Top - End - #1001
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    The same thing sorta happened with Ad Mech, because SOMEONE thought Enriched Rounds working on 4+ was ok
    Honestly, enriched rounds wasn't nearly as insane as the Pteraxii hop. The way the rules worked when it first came out, you would basically have a single unit of Pteraxii popping onto the board at the start of your turn, unloading their shots, their melee attacks if you feel like it, and then at the end booster-rocketing them back off the board where they couldn't be shot at.
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    I like the "hobo" in there.
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  12. - Top - End - #1002
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    Honestly, enriched rounds wasn't nearly as insane as the Pteraxii hop. The way the rules worked when it first came out, you would basically have a single unit of Pteraxii popping onto the board at the start of your turn, unloading their shots, their melee attacks if you feel like it, and then at the end booster-rocketing them back off the board where they couldn't be shot at.
    The only reason that Enriched wasn't the most broken thing in that book for Strats is because THAT was legal for all of five minutes. Because that was stupid.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    High Marshall Helbrecht of the Black Templars crosses the Rubicon Primaris.

    The amount of people describing it as "the High Marshall Who Leads His Crusades From The Front" that clearly haven't read Helsreach is, to coin a phrase, really getting on my nerves.....

    Very baroque with lots of useless nonsense all over the place? Classic Black Templar, I like it a lot, especially the unique helmet.... Except for the Ork built into the base. I know it's in reference to the classic art pose, but what if no one I know plays Orks? Does he bring it along with him just so that he can pose on the battlefield? What if I just want to him to be resting on his honkin' big sword and showing that off instead?

    Unsurprisingly, the little minion with the cleaning rag has become the stuff of meme legend. The best one I have seen so far involves him applying a gentle and loving polish to Sigvald the Magnificent's perfectly chiselled buttocks.

    ...Where was I? Oh yes; Helbrecht. Rumours about his stats are vague, and suggest that he's keeping his "+1STR to surrounding BT's in melee" aura - not amazing, but now having the bigger Primaris-sized base to measure from is a slight buff. Similarly, it's suggested that Grimaldus is getting a similar buff, although not yet certain if he's been Primarised, or is just 'better, for some reason'.
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  14. - Top - End - #1004
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    I really like the look of the black templar box set, too. Probably not enough to get it when i'm confident everything will be available soon seperately (and probably not for THAT much less than the inevitable £125 or so) but Black Templars are now On My Radar in a way I never would have expected them to be before.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    If Grimaldus is getting a new model, it is 100% going to be Primaris. They're not going to issue new firstborn Marines (except the occasional Terminator) again.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Helbrecht is putting me in an odd spot, I find his helmeted alternate head to look better than the bare one, but his look is so iconic I might wind up using the bare head anyway.

    In any case, I'm very happy to be seeing new BTs stuff, especially since I've finally gotten the backbone of a force done after a decade or so of hemming and hawing about it. Doubt the primaris Crusader Squad will be anything special, but maybe GW will surprise me and make Black Tide a viable strategy.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    I rather like Helbrect's model. Not a fan of the minions or the Ork corpse, but he looks lovely, the appropriate amount of busy on his armor for someone of his rank.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    If Grimaldus is getting a new model, it is 100% going to be Primaris. They're not going to issue new firstborn Marines (except the occasional Terminator) again.
    I think it's unlikely, they seem to be doing one special character per Chapter release.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    The black templars do seem to be getting a slightly more extensive update than everyone else, in that they're getting at least one exclusive unit and three characters already.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Ok, but did anyone else think at first that this guy had a pokeball on his kneepad?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Little bit, yeah.
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  22. - Top - End - #1012
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    GW's NDA has appeared on reddit.
    Midwinter Minis is near the top saying that the current one is not like the one he signed, but that this one is actually worse, and he already broke the previous one.

    YouTubers seem pretty shocked at the terms. I don't know if they're doing it for content. But to me it's exactly as predatory as I thought it was:

    - You can't disclose your relationship with GW. That seems dodgy. Instagram already exploded on that particular term a few years ago. Influencers disclosing their business relationships is actually a big deal.

    - You can't sell products to anybody who has bought a product from GW in the last 12 months...So, you can't monetise your audience, which will be people who have bought something in the last 12 months. COOL! So if you're a commission painter, and you get copies of stuff from GW, you can no longer commission paint. If you have a 3D printing or 3D .stl business, you can't be GW's friend. If you have a Patreon that gives things to people, you can't be GW's friend. This isn't egregious. This is what I said was happening. This should be like, reasonable knowledge. This means that you can have your YouTube revenue. But revenue from other sources (e.g; Patreon) can become suspect if you deliver anything other that GW's approved content.
    I'm pretty sure that this is the new part.

    - You can't make GW look bad, and what makes them look bad is up to them, not you. Which means that if you say something you think is safe, they can determine that you're bad one.
    - You can't tell people to not buy something.
    The wording on this is apparently more strict that it was last time?

    Yep. That's basically everything I thought it was going to be. Can't say I'm surprised at all. The only thing to me, that is surprising, is that the NDA lasts for 36 months (3 years). 3 years is a long time to not be able to create your own product, especially if you end up becoming successful with a sizeable audience.

    For basically shafting yourself, and your content, you can have access to 'review copies'.
    I don't know what previous review contracts were (I have mentioned my problems with Goonhammer, and similar, before), but pre-release reviews going forwards, feel dead to me.
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  23. - Top - End - #1013
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    - You can't sell products to anybody who has bought a product from GW in the last 12 months...So, you can't monetise your audience, which will be people who have bought something in the last 12 months. COOL! So if you're a commission painter, and you get copies of stuff from GW, you can no longer commission paint. If you have a 3D printing or 3D .stl business, you can't be GW's friend. If you have a Patreon that gives things to people, you can't be GW's friend. This isn't egregious. This is what I said was happening. This should be like, reasonable knowledge. This means that you can have your YouTube revenue. But revenue from other sources (e.g; Patreon) can become suspect if you deliver anything other that GW's approved content.
    I'm pretty sure that this is the new part.
    Wait... they can't sell freaking T Shirts? Thats ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    For basically shafting yourself, and your content, you can have access to 'review copies'.
    I don't know what previous review contracts were (I have mentioned my problems with Goonhammer, and similar, before), but pre-release reviews going forwards, feel dead to me.
    Ya, I'm with you on that. Like, we get that people who get Review Copies were always gonna be a bit soft but this seems even worse than what I was imagining.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Wait... they can't sell freaking T Shirts? Thats ridiculous.
    Under Section 4. Unless you have explicit permission, you can't:
    - canvass, solicit or seek business with a Restricted Customer
    - have business dealings with a Restricted Customer
    - employ any Restricted Customers

    A Restricted Customer is anyone who has bought any GW products in the last 12 months...So basically everyone that would actually watch a pre-order review video.

    Now, as usual with a lot of non-compete agreements, how they're enforced is very...Nebulous.

    Can you sell T-Shirts? Maybe. I mean, what's the harm? It's your channel and brand, right? It doesn't have anything to do with GW. Unfortunately, the way it's worded, GW could shut it down, if they chose to. Why would they choose to? ...Any reason they want, basically as per the agreement. Which ties back to what I said way back; It's not that GW says you can't do a thing. It's not even that GW says you can't be paid for a thing. It's that you can't be monetarily successful, you can't be a threat. When are you a threat? ...I-uh-oh.

    But selling a shirt, legally, is doing business with a customer. It doesn't need to be a GW product. It doesn't need to breach a trade or service mark. Did you exchange money for product and/or service that we didn't approve? Shut it down.

    Disney does it all the time:
    Low-level indie s*** is fine. There's no point going after it. But once that low-level indie s*** becomes successful...Well that's the market research done for you, isn't it? Shut them down, then usurp their product as your own because you know there's an audience for that product.

    Like, we get that people who get Review Copies were always gonna be a bit soft but this seems even worse than what I was imagining.
    To be clear, this one is new. From Midwinter Minis, the one before was less bad.

    As always; Just don't pre-order. Keep it in your pants for five seconds. Maybe wait for a week whilst post-release reviews come out.
    ...Haha. Just kidding. GW is shorting the stock. FOMO For Lyfe. You can't afford to wait a week, because if it turns out to be good, you will have missed out.
    Checkmate, loser.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    To be clear, this one is new. From Midwinter Minis, the one before was less bad.

    As always; Just don't pre-order. Keep it in your pants for five seconds. Maybe wait for a week whilst post-release reviews come out.
    ...Haha. Just kidding. GW is shorting the stock. FOMO For Lyfe. You can't afford to wait a week, because if it turns out to be good, you will have missed out.
    Checkmate, loser.
    Jokes on them I don't play in a GW store, hell I don't think there's one for 200 miles, so I just use other models. Sadly the ones I used for my Vanguard an now OoP as I got them in a bulk lot so I may need to get my a 3D Printer-
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    - You can't disclose your relationship with GW. That seems dodgy. Instagram already exploded on that particular term a few years ago. Influencers disclosing their business relationships is actually a big deal.
    I Am Not A Lawyerô but I remember reading about this - pretty sure it's more than just dodgy, certainly in the USA where Youtube is based. The FTC demands that influencers reveal their sponsors for such content and that includes donated materials like paints and minis, not just wages paid.

    There's more to it, and I don't know if "I work for GW" is the same thing as "GW sent me this stuff for free" in the same context, but the way it's written is intentionally vague. It has to be "clear and obvious", and being seen in frame with an object can be interpreted as an ensorsement even if you don't talk about it. I can't imagine how failing to mention that someone is working for GW and painting GW products with GW paints would NOT violate that requirement.

    Essentially, if you're a youtuber under this contract and GW sends you stuff, then you can't be a youtuber any more.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2021-09-25 at 11:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    FWIW, thereís speculation that the reason this is different to the one Midwinter Minis signed, is because it is NOT the one that creators like Midwinter Minis would sign. Instead, itís one that would apply to corporate partners (e.g. producing a Warhammer computer game), and either came from that context, or was sent to a creator in error. I have no idea how likely it is that this speculation is true, but Iím sure there are others around in the wider internet with more info.

    Edit: this strikes me as particularly likely given that the restrictions Wraith mentions apply in the UK as well afaik: people have to disclose when things being reviewed are provided for that purpose. So it seems unlikely to me that this form of NDA is intended to apply in the context of products provided for review. But I also am not a lawyer.

    (There is also commentary that this sort of wording is very common in these sort of arrangements for any company, but I havenít been engaging with this closely enough to say if Gwís terms are worse than anyone else)
    Last edited by Avaris; 2021-09-25 at 10:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    FWIW, thereís speculation that the reason this is different to the one Midwinter Minis signed, is because it is NOT the one that creators like Midwinter Minis would sign. Instead, itís one that would apply to corporate partners (e.g. producing a Warhammer computer game), and either came from that context, or was sent to a creator in error. I have no idea how likely it is that this speculation is true, but Iím sure there are others around in the wider internet with more info.

    (There is also commentary that this sort of wording is vary common in these sort of arrangements for any company, but I havenít been engaging with this closely enough to say if Gwís terms are worse than anyone else)
    I mean if they're incompetent enough to send the wrong contract like that, thats kind of bad enough by itself....
    I'm also on discord as "raziere". Hate is a chain, free yourself.



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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I mean if they're incompetent enough to send the wrong contract like that, thats kind of bad enough by itself....
    Definitely! Which also reminds me of a comment from someone who knows more about this stuff, that when signing an NDA like this (they work in a similar industry I believe) there is always a chance to query and alter it to both parties satisfaction. So the NDA as presented here may not be the one anyone is actually under, and they may well have clarity over things like Ďdonít sell to customersí.
    Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

    As a YouTuber myself, there's a field when uploading videos where I have to check a box if the video is or includes a paid promotion or product placement. So it would be either break the contract or break YouTube's terms.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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