Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

[LansXero]

How many games/week and how many weeks do you plan on this to last? Try and make it short, anything beyond a month is going to have players dropping out or forgetting things. Best campaigns are short and smple.

[Renegade Paladin]

For perspective, this same group is wrapping up a planned six month Crusade league this month, that had no dropouts. I didn't organize that (I refused to organize anything until vaccinated) but they've been playing one game a month. I want to move faster than that, but this is not going to be a several games per week thing; the community here doesn't go that fast.

[LansXero]

For perspective, this same group is wrapping up a planned six month Crusade league this month, that had no dropouts. I didn't organize that (I refused to organize anything until vaccinated) but they've been playing one game a month. I want to move faster than that, but this is not going to be a several games per week thing; the community here doesn't go that fast.

Yeah sorry should've gone with game count over time length. So thats a 6 game league? Seems within expected parameters.

[Dragonus45]

Let me offer a perspective. I hadn't played WFB is about 25 years, however, during Covid I decided to start collecting what I like with an eye to eventually having an army to put on a table. To date I've bought 4 Skaven boxes, 3 seraphon boxes, 2 undead boxes, and 1 skydwarf box (kharaphon? Whatever).

I can’t really speak to AOS since I don’t go near it but aren’t those all mechanically stable competent armies.

[9mm]

I can’t really speak to AOS since I don’t go near it but aren’t those all mechanically stable competent armies.

For the most part with the exception of Undead, where it comes down to which flavor of undead. RIP Soulblight Gravelords.

[LansXero]

RIP Legions of Nagash you mean, Gravelords is the only semi-viable Death faction after Ossiarch's nerfs. Kharadron ships are better in Cities than as Kharadrons imho. Seraphon are hella busted, but then, Order is gonna Order.

Skaven hasnt been viable in a long, long time.

Back to 40k, sku bloat is real and having 'just in case' products collecting dust and taking space on shelves is a terrible business practice. So 'fun' / quirky junk deserves to be phased out, due to its niche demand.

[9mm]

RIP Legions of Nagash you mean, Gravelords is the only semi-viable Death faction after Ossiarch's nerfs. Kharadron ships are better in Cities than as Kharadrons imho. Seraphon are hella busted, but then, Order is gonna Order.

Skaven hasnt been viable in a long, long time.

Back to 40k, sku bloat is real and having 'just in case' products collecting dust and taking space on shelves is a terrible business practice. So 'fun' / quirky junk deserves to be phased out, due to its niche demand.

As someone who has played the army since before Legions of Nagash was a thing, no I mean RIP Soulblight Gravelords. They took a book that was barely relevant and nuked it from orbit. OBR is a mono-build seal clubber, Nighthaunt is a solid mid-tier held back by being a casino, and FEC is a solid competitive upper fat middle book.

[Brookshw]

I can’t really speak to AOS since I don’t go near it but aren’t those all mechanically stable competent armies.

No idea, haven't played WFB in maybe 20/25 years, and by extension, AOS.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, got my copy of CA2021 today (GW shipped late, and I kind of have to being a TO). They have officially falsely advertised. The book is not ringbound like the product images that were on the website during the preorder period. I have screenshots. Given that this is the second time they've falsely advertised this year (the first time that I know about was the reissue of the Kill Team environment boxes, in which they removed a major terrain piece from each but used the product images of the original releases), I'm starting to wonder what the UK's consumer protection laws might have to say.

[Fergie0044]

Well, got my copy of CA2021 today (GW shipped late, and I kind of have to being a TO). They have officially falsely advertised. The book is not ringbound like the product images that were on the website during the preorder period. I have screenshots. Given that this is the second time they've falsely advertised this year (the first time that I know about was the reissue of the Kill Team environment boxes, in which they removed a major terrain piece from each but used the product images of the original releases), I'm starting to wonder what the UK's consumer protection laws might have to say.

Wow, that really sucks. Being ringbound was one of CA2020s best features!

[Renegade Paladin]

Wow, that really sucks. Being ringbound was one of CA2020s best features!

I know, right? Not only will this glue binding not lay flat, since the book is so small it won't even stay open without being held.

[LansXero]

It was a terrible purchase, TO or not, ring binding or not.

The point changes will be up in the official app anyways, so at most you'd need the Secondary Objective changes, which have been officially released for free in a number of review sites. Its all public knowledge at this point and doesnt require the book regardless.

[Forum Explorer]

It was a terrible purchase, TO or not, ring binding or not. {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Agreed. It is a complete rip off. I'm not sure if I should feel justified or offended by how bad this one is.

[Renegade Paladin]

It was a terrible purchase, TO or not, ring binding or not. Point changes are already up on battlescribe, secondary changes are everywhere, missions remain the same.

By that metric every rulebook is a terrible purchase {Scrubbed}. Point is they're engaged in blatant false advertising at this point.

[Forum Explorer]

By that metric every rulebook is a terrible purchase {Scrub the post, scrub the quote} Point is they're engaged in blatant false advertising at this point.

Well, now that you've brought it up...

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, now that you've brought it up...

Good luck entering a tournament with {Scrubbed} on your phone as your rules source.

[Forum Explorer]

Good luck entering a tournament with {Scrub the post, scrub the quote} on your phone as your rules source.

In the past tournaments were fine with digital copies like Battlescribe and PDFs.

[LansXero]

Good luck entering a tournament with Wahapedia on your phone as your rules source.

But... you are the TO. Its literally up to you to stop perpetuating that nonsense. More to the point, its still a moot point for CA21 because Missions inc. secondaries can just be provided by the TO on the tournament packet with the rest of the specific rules.

By that metric every rulebook is a terrible purchase because it's all up on Wahapedia. Point is they're engaged in blatant false advertising at this point.

Come on guess how many 9E Codices we've ordered to this day :v

[Renegade Paladin]

But... you are the TO. Its literally up to you to stop perpetuating that nonsense. More to the point, its still a moot point for CA21 because Missions inc. secondaries can just be provided by the TO on the tournament packet with the rest of the specific rules.

I'm the TO, but not the store owner, and the store owners want to make sales. Also, I attend GTs for which I am not the TO.

[Avaris]

Not having it ringbound is certainly disappointing. I wonder if it is a victim of Brexit/Covid: getting it ring bound is presumably a service offered by fewer printers, so if the original supplier is unavailable they may not have managed a back up. Still, the most recent Crusade release was ringbound.

Makes me think about what the best format for a printed rules product would be. In order to justify the cost it needs to offer benefits for being a physical product, which currently the codexes etc don’t really do; A4 hardback is the worst format! If budget were no issue, I’d want to look into something like having them in a filofax/folder binder, so you can remove pages individually. That way you can just take the pages you need for an event and have them easily to hand when playing. Would require a major change in book design approach though.

[LeSwordfish]

So have people seen the leaks that point to a new 30k box?

Spoiler

Show

The format of the images (including dice and a "Scenery Not Included" message) suggests a box, which looks like it might be 30 new beakie marines, an updated plastic Contemptor (more dynamic, thank god), 5 Cataphractii (if there's anything new about them, I can't see it), two heroes and... what looks honest-to-god like a plastic spartan? (The old resin spartan doesn't have a modelled interior).

This is a lot of stuff for a box (Essentially Betrayal At Calth plus a larger-than-land-raider vehicle), but could potentially come out at the same kind of price point as Dominion etc, perhaps? Maybe we'll get extremely lucky and see a version with the rulebook too - the Heresy rulebooks are ludicrously expensive, which makes it a very hard game to get into. It's been needing a Battle Of Pelennor Fields-style box for a while now, and we've no other rumors as to what could fill that pre-christmas slot.

[Sinewmire]

So have people seen the leaks that point to a new 30k box

Sons of Horus vs Imperial Fists...
Is that the siege of Terra?

[Cheesegear]

So have people seen the leaks that point to a new 30k box?

I'm...Optimistic? 30K is currently in a bad place. So maybe a brand new box will revitalise the game. But if the game is still stuck in 7.5th Ed., it's not going to fix anything. Especially given that the vast majority of 30K content is hard to get (legally ) for new players.

So maybe a new 30K box would indicate a whole new set of rules? In which case fantastic. Let's go, bois!

But I also worry that it's GW dividing the playerbase again, into new kids and grognards:
GW; 'Primaris Marines are the new hotness. Firstborn Marines are t3h garbage.'
Also GW; 'Buy Firstborn from when they were the hotness.'

I also dreadfully await the 'limited release' announcement, which will immediately make it irrelevant to me, as scalpers will get all copies of the box before I can even load the page trying to get to a .uk website.

[noob]

I'm...Optimistic? 30K is currently in a bad place. So maybe a brand new box will revitalise the game. But if the game is still stuck in 7.5th Ed., it's not going to fix anything. Especially given that the vast majority of 30K content is hard to get (legally ) for new players.

So maybe a new 30K box would indicate a whole new set of rules? In which case fantastic. Let's go, bois!

But I also worry that it's GW dividing the playerbase again, into new kids and grognards:
GW; 'Primaris Marines are the new hotness. Firstborn Marines are t3h garbage.'
Also GW; 'Buy Firstborn from when they were the hotness.'

I also dreadfully await the 'limited release' announcement, which will immediately make it irrelevant to me, as scalpers will get all copies of the box before I can even load the page trying to get to a .uk website.

Maybe they will retroactively introduce primaris marines "Cawl totally did time travel to make primaris marines in the past in the hope it would make the emperor not lose the heresy wars"
(Is he actually loyal to the imperium of mankind or does he just like making bigger marines?)

[LansXero]

I have no reason to ever carry this box beyond special order.

Why would I get anyone into a game where rulebooks are hella expensive and hard to get, models keep going out of stock with no discernible pattern, I get no distribution discount, its all resin and isnt cross-compatible with 40k? Yes they get the box of old-style marines, big whoop, its not like marine players are lacking for firstborns, you can jump on ebay and get a pile of them cheaper and faster than trying through forgeworld.

[Eldan]

Maybe they will retroactively introduce primaris marines "Cawl totally did time travel to make primaris marines in the past in the hope it would make the emperor not lose the heresy wars"
(Is he actually loyal to the imperium of mankind or does he just like making bigger marines?)

I mean, are any mechanicus really loyal to the empire? And doesn't it say in the canticles that "To make Things bigger is the Work of the Omnissiah"?

[Wraith]

I get no distribution discount, its all resin and isnt cross-compatible with 40k?

But this new box is plastic! PLASTIC! Ooooh! Ahhhh! *60w spotlight bulb pops with a sad fizzle of sparks*

Seriously GW, just have the Ordo Chronos kick Trazyn''s door down, steal one of his time machines and make 30k use 9e rules already. There's so much stuff I'd be happy to buy, if only it weren't for a dead* game system that was bad the first time around and I have no urge to rush back to.

*rounded up from 98% dead, of course....

[noob]

I mean, are any mechanicus really loyal to the empire? And doesn't it say in the canticles that "To make Things bigger is the Work of the Omnissiah"?

I think the bottom of the hierarchy of the mechanicus that is far from mars might be convinced that the omnisiah is just an alternate name for emperor god of mankind and are loyal to him but cawl is way more likely to not be loyal to the emperor as are any mechanicus on mars or any mechanicus that are not at the rock bottom of the hierarchy.
The emperor god of mankind loved the "making bigger things" business too and the reason why there is not many "bigger marines" is that the primarch project did not go as well as planned (alias bad parenting skills and also the issue that he had to seek them everywhere due to chaos or something).

[LansXero]

But this new box is plastic! PLASTIC! Ooooh! Ahhhh! *60w spotlight bulb pops with a sad fizzle of sparks*

Seriously GW, just have the Ordo Chronos kick Trazyn''s door down, steal one of his time machines and make 30k use 9e rules already. There's so much stuff I'd be happy to buy, if only it weren't for a dead* game system that was bad the first time around and I have no urge to rush back to.

That would kill it dead. Horus Heresy rulebooks are collector pieces much more so than regular codices are. The enfranchised few who bought them are the only thing keeping it on life support due to sunken cost / poor impulse control. ****ting on all that money to try and attract a reluctant player base into Marines vs Marines: The Game is probably suicide.

As for giving 9E rules to the FW 30k exclusive stuff, Primarchs and Nameds are out, Legion elites are out but I guess some stuff here and there could work. But then Space Marines is an already bloated line and adding a bunch of fancy firstborn to it isn't likely to do much, if anything.

the reason why there is not many "bigger marines" is

the Alpha Legion messed things up. Raptors were already bigger and better than firstborn, and would've replace the RGs losses in a fraction of the time it normally would've taken, but traitors gonna traitor.

[LeSwordfish]

Sons of Horus vs Imperial Fists...
Is that the siege of Terra?

I doubt it, based on the inclusion of a Spartan and the terrain, but a cool setting would be the Saturnine ambush. You could make a good Betrayal-At-Calth style board game out of it.

I'm...Optimistic? 30K is currently in a bad place. So maybe a brand new box will revitalise the game. But if the game is still stuck in 7.5th Ed., it's not going to fix anything. Especially given that the vast majority of 30K content is hard to get (legally ) for new players.

So maybe a new 30K box would indicate a whole new set of rules? In which case fantastic. Let's go, bois!

I don't know how I feel about a new set of rules - I think there's still conceptual space for a more crunchy game like 7th ed. What I would like to see is a general tidying and consolidation of those rules, similar to what the middle-earth range got. The FAQ is as long as your arm, including several entirely reprinted profiles and rules, and it would be nice to see some modernisations to the rules such as the Tag system that AOS and 40k now have, to save the hair-splitting about which units are Legiones Astartes.

I also dreadfully await the 'limited release' announcement, which will immediately make it irrelevant to me, as scalpers will get all copies of the box before I can even load the page trying to get to a .uk website.

Have you tried with the queueing system they've used for Gaunt's Ghosts and the Dominion box? It reduces the website load significantly, and gives everyone an even chance to grab something.