Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLII: The Dice Make Fools of Us All

[hamishspence]

I get why it's a blank chestplate - it's artificer armour with parts dating back to the Crusade, so it's supposed to be a Mark 2 or Mark 3 chestplate. That's fine, it's appropriate... *If* you're complete nerd like me and have memorized that sort of thing from 2-dozen novels and 20 years' worth of codices. It definitely needs a crux, or a more prominent/more decorated heraldry shield, or something just to fill the space.

Keep in mind that this isn't a Firstborn Emperor's Champion, this is a Primaris Emperor's champion. The shins, the backpack, the extra size, etc. Not ancient armour, but all new armour- the only ancient thing is possibly the helmet - maybe after the classic Emperor's Champion died in battle and a Primaris Marine was given the title, he was given the helmet as well.

[Dragonus45]

Boycott going strong, Hexfire sold out so fast that GW is moving to made-to-order (like Indomitus) for Octarius and all box set releases going forward. Delivery time sucks (6-9 months wait) but might be better for some than a flat NO or having to go to scalpers.

Well that's a shame.

[hamishspence]

That doesn't stop them from slapping on some Terminator honors or a purity seal to make it look less empty though

As a Primaris, he's not going to have received Terminator training.

And a point is made in the article about how anyone in the chapter (not just a First Company member) who has received the right visions, qualifies to be Emperor's Champion:

Now that’s a champion, alright. For the Black Templars, perhaps the most pious – and pernickety – followers of the Imperial Faith, the Emperor’s Champion is the holiest of all.

No one knows how or why, but every so often, a Black Templar of any rank starts receiving visions from the God-Emperor – and when the Lord of Mankind makes you that kind of offer, you can’t just refuse it.

Wracked by these visions, a newly anointed Emperor’s Champion is confirmed by the Chapter’s Chaplains, leaves their old life and rank behind, and is tooled up with a whole chapel’s worth of relics and raiments.

These include a Black Sword, a rare power weapon, the first of which was wielded by Sigismund, First Captain of the Imperial Fists.

Emperor’s Champions also wear the Armour of Faith and an Iron Halo, artefacts of such sacred power that the Black Templars have been known to launch entire crusades to recover them if a Champion falls in battle. This is a Chapter that does not mess around.

Presumably when the Templars redesigned the Armour of Faith as a Mark X suit, they decided not to put any "Bladeguard-only" decorations on it - including the modified form of Terminator Honours -(a cross with one point being a mini-sword blade) that Bladeguard wear.

[Cheesegear]

Oddly the thing that's annoying me about the Emperor's Champion is the new sword design, I preferred the previous more understated version.

In addition to the [real world religion] iconography, I don't like that in order to do that, the Emperor's Champion is not holding his sword like how you're supposed to hold a sword.

The whole model just looks awkward. I see what they were going for. I get it.
...But I don't like it.

I'll still buy it, my BTs need their champion after all, but I do prefer the old one.

There are several conversions you can find to make a Primaris Emperor's Champion. People have been doing it for quite some time.

Spoiler: Start Here

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Here's a basic one that you can do with almost any Primaris Marine...

Spoiler: Newb Conversion

Show

Little bit more using the Primaris Lieutenant with a bit of Tryharding...

Spoiler: Got the Terminator Honours right, too

Show

Doing it.

Spoiler: The Sword is the Most Important Part

Show

Imgur Link to another decent one.


Overall I'd avoid buying the new Emperor's Champion. Just make your own. If you have the Firstborn Champion, cannibalise the Sword and you're already almost done.

[hamishspence]

In addition to the [real world religion] iconography, I don't like that in order to do that, the Emperor's Champion is not holding his sword like how you're supposed to hold a sword.

The whole model just looks awkward. I see what they were going for. I get it.
...But I don't like it.

Looks to me like he's trying to banish vampires or demons. "The power of the Emperor compels you!"

[Grim Portent]

Overall I'd avoid buying the new Emperor's Champion. Just make your own. If you have the Firstborn Champion, cannibalise the Sword and you're already almost done.

I was planning to convert up a Primaris Emperor's Champion to proxy as a firstborn Company Champion because I didn't want to have some minis be noticeably short alongside the primaris force which I've been painting, but I've had basically zero energy for conversions for a while. I've got everything I'd need except the lieutenant, which is trivial to get, but I just can't be bothered.

I've gotten to a weird place where £20 for a mini I think is meh is more reasonable than a few hours of converting to make something I'd prefer. Too many unfinished projects, too little motivation.

Who knows though, I still have to finish my bladeguard and company veterans, and before them I want to finish Abaddon and Be'lakor, so by the time I need to work on a champion I might have found the spark again.

[LeSwordfish]

Well that's a shame.

To clarify, there'll be an initial wave of stuff you can buy as normal. If you buy in the first weekend and don't get from that initial wave, they'll send you a made to order copy much later.

[Wraith]

Teminator Honours (as above) is not Black Templar iconography. The current Firstborn Champion has very little - if any - iconography. I'll see if I can find one in my box of badness. I might've sold it when I started using Sigismund for the model? I've definitely been using Sigismund as my Emperor's Champion for quite some time. Maybe I never even bought an Emperor's Champion? My God, I have so much ****.

I guess GW finally realised that the crux terminatus and the Templar cross are the same thing IRL if not in universe, and didn't want to risk it?

I get it, I certainly agree with you. The new Emperor's Champion is serviceable, but also the laziest copy/paste job I've seen in a while, so it looks generic which is the last thing an Astartes who has received visions of the Emperor of Mankind should look like. Give him robes or a full over-the-head tabard adorned with Chapter heraldry, or have candles on his pauldrons or something else that shows off how pious the BTs are and how seriously they take their religious icons. Not just "guy in bare armour" that you wouldn't know was a BT if he turned to his left.

Presumably when the Templars redesigned the Armour of Faith as a Mark X suit, they decided not to put any "Bladeguard-only" decorations on it - including the modified form of Terminator Honours -(a cross with one point being a mini-sword blade) that Bladeguard wear.

There isn't just one Armour of Faith - each Crusade has it's own suit of artificer/relic armour that gets given the title when a suitable candidate shows up. It's not quite "it's called the Armour of Faith because the Emperor's Champion is wearing it", but there's absolutely no reason that it should look like a normal suit of mk10 with no gewgaws attached.

Or at least, they did in some editions of the codex. I don't imagine the lore has changed so much that there is now only one BT Crusade, after all.

[hamishspence]

In 4E, the idea was that every Crusade nominally has an Emperor's Champion, and in practice, every Fighting Company has an Emperor's Champion.


By 6E, however, the idea was that there is only one Champion at a time in the entire Black Templars Chapter - though the Chapter has 10 Black Swords.

page 118: Codex Space Marines 6E


"Only a handful of Emperor's Champions arise each century, their emergence a miracle worthy of remembrance, and at any given time there can be only one. It is, therefore, the duty of the Chaplains to ensure that a single Black Sword accompanies each crusade from its inception, ready should an Emperor's Champion arise."


I figure that, since the Black Templars have only had Primaris for about 100 years, the first "Primaris Emperor's Champion" only arose fairly recently - so (since a Primaris can't fit into a Firstborn's Armour of Faith), the first Primaris Emperor's Champion has to wear a fairly regular suit.

Fancy helmet though - and a bigger hilt on the Black Sword than usual - they probably modified the hilt of that particular Crusade's Black Sword, to be better suited to the bigger frame of a Primaris.

[Dragonus45]

To clarify, there'll be an initial wave of stuff you can buy as normal. If you buy in the first weekend and don't get from that initial wave, they'll send you a made to order copy much later.

And that's half the shame, they know damn well how big the demand for this kind of things is and barely put out any product in the grand scheme of things, but also it's a shame that, as cheese gear already pointed out, their short run fomo **** you to the consumer business practices also make them look good financially and gives ammo for the GW simps who want to talk about how great them selling out is.

[LansXero]

Overall I'd avoid buying the new Emperor's Champion.

And then it was in the box set alongside the new supplement, as a mirror to Hexfire. So it sold out, and GW patted themselves on the back for its great design.

And that's half the shame, they know damn well how big the demand for this kind of things is and barely put out any product in the grand scheme of things, but also it's a shame that, as cheese gear already pointed out, their short run fomo **** you to the consumer business practices also make them look good financially and gives ammo for the GW simps who want to talk about how great them selling out is.

So record profits several years in a row isn't great? Because its not %, they are grossing more and more every year even through diminishing returns from licensing fees. They cant keep up with demand even though they're running at full steam. What about that situation says 'wrong' to you?

[Artanis]

Boycott going strong, Hexfire sold out so fast that GW is moving to made-to-order (like Indomitus) for Octarius and all box set releases going forward.

This sentence reminds me of the screenshot of a boycott group on Steam where something like 80% of the members were playing the game they were supposed to boycott.

[Blackhawk748]

As a Primaris, he's not going to have received Terminator training.

And a point is made in the article about how anyone in the chapter (not just a First Company member) who has received the right visions, qualifies to be Emperor's Champion:



Presumably when the Templars redesigned the Armour of Faith as a Mark X suit, they decided not to put any "Bladeguard-only" decorations on it - including the modified form of Terminator Honours -(a cross with one point being a mini-sword blade) that Bladeguard wear.

Wait... I thought it was always like that? I had just assumed it most frequently happened to the First Company cuz, y'know, they;re the best, so obviously you'd make them your champ.

But even if he doesn't have Terminator Honors (didn't realize the new one was Primaris) they could have at least slapped a purity seal or something on there. It looks so... devoid of interesting stuff.

And no, im not asking for a shower of random gubbins GW, there's a happy medium.

Also did they say an Iron Halo is a "Artifact of immense power"? Don't like... every Captain have one of those?

In addition to the [real world religion] iconography, I don't like that in order to do that, the Emperor's Champion is not holding his sword like how you're supposed to hold a sword.

The whole model just looks awkward. I see what they were going for. I get it.
...But I don't like it.

Ya, he's holding it flat towards the enemy and thats just... not how people hold swords when they do that pose. Also I agree that the old sword was nicer. This one isn't totally awful or anything, I just liked how everything flowed together on the first one.

[Fable Wright]

Also did they say an Iron Halo is a "Artifact of immense power"? Don't like... every Captain have one of those?

Branding, man. Have you ever heard of an Artifact of Relatively Reasonable Power, or an Artifact of Just Barely Qualifies As Power? No! Everything must be Considerable or Immense for branding purposes. No exceptions!

[Grim Portent]

IIRC Iron Halo's are the best imperial personal shield generator that doesn't require a hand to use, which makes them a pretty impressive piece of tech.

That every space marine chapter has about ten doesn't really make them less impressive, that's still only a few thousand in the entire galaxy. They're rarer than plasma weapons, which are fluffed as among the most powerful and rare man-portable weapons in existence.

[Renegade Paladin]

Boycott going strong, Hexfire sold out so fast that GW is moving to made-to-order (like Indomitus) for Octarius and all box set releases going forward. Delivery time sucks (6-9 months wait) but might be better for some than a flat NO or having to go to scalpers.

The scalpers were going to scalp no matter what. The real measure is how quickly/for how much the scalpers can move the box. There was no scenario where GW wouldn't sell out of a limited run box set.

[Blackhawk748]

Branding, man. Have you ever heard of an Artifact of Relatively Reasonable Power, or an Artifact of Just Barely Qualifies As Power? No! Everything must be Considerable or Immense for branding purposes. No exceptions!

Ya, but... go on a full Crusade to recover them? Like... its replaceable tech.

IIRC Iron Halo's are the best imperial personal shield generator that doesn't require a hand to use, which makes them a pretty impressive piece of tech.

That every space marine chapter has about ten doesn't really make them less impressive, that's still only a few thousand in the entire galaxy. They're rarer than plasma weapons, which are fluffed as among the most powerful and rare man-portable weapons in existence.

Honestly, how rare Plasma is has always been overstated. Its never been shown to be so incredibly rare in setting as pretty much every Guard Regiment can have access to it if it wants and the Ad Mech hurls it around with impunity. And yes, I know they make the stuff, but it never came across as stupidly difficult, just annoying to maintain.

[Brookshw]

Also did they say an Iron Halo is a "Artifact of immense power"? Don't like... every Captain have one of those?

Only if they've conquered a providence, right

[hamishspence]

But even if he doesn't have Terminator Honors (didn't realize the new one was Primaris) they could have at least slapped a purity seal or something on there.

Those big strips of material blowing from the backpack appear to fill the same niche - oaths of moment or something? They have lots of writing on, and the main difference between them and purity seals is that they're longer, and not attached with wax.

[LeSwordfish]

And that's half the shame, they know damn well how big the demand for this kind of things is and barely put out any product in the grand scheme of things, but also it's a shame that, as cheese gear already pointed out, their short run fomo **** you to the consumer business practices also make them look good financially and gives ammo for the GW simps who want to talk about how great them selling out is.

But... how is "you can only buy this thing for one weekend" worse than "you can only buy this thing for four minutes"?

I can't imagine they'd be doing this if they could just make more boxes.

The scalpers were going to scalp no matter what. The real measure is how quickly/for how much the scalpers can move the box. There was no scenario where GW wouldn't sell out of a limited run box set.

Yeah - this doesn't solve scalping, but it does make it less financially viable, which is good.

[Blackhawk748]

Those big strips of material blowing from the backpack appear to fill the same niche - oaths of moment or something? They have lots of writing on, and the main difference between them and purity seals is that they're longer, and not attached with wax.

Yes, but those aren't on the chest, which is the issue.

[hamishspence]

Given that virtually all Primaris have an Imperial Eagle on the chest, a completely exposed chest with no decoration at all, really stands out - which may be the reason why the model designers avoided any decorations.

[Dragonus45]

But... how is "you can only buy this thing for one weekend" worse than "you can only buy this thing for four minutes"?

I can't imagine they'd be doing this if they could just make more boxes.

Short runs moving to a limited time buy on demand model are absolutely something worth doing on purpose even if you could make more boxes. It makes it a guarantee that they sell out to create hype/emotionally manipulate to push people to get the buy on demand boxes with are almost pure profit since they never have to guess how many boxes they need to make and they can pretend they are the good guys doing extra runs of sold out product.

[LeSwordfish]

It makes it a guarantee that they sell out

But it's already guaranteed to sell out. Now they make sure there's a grace period to get it even after it sells out. What's the alternative you want them to do? Because presumably "just make more" is not viable, whether because they're money-grubbing bastards or they don't want to overestimate and have stock lying around, or because they can't afford to devote the entire factory to Cursed Cities forever.

to create hype/emotionally manipulate to push people to get the buy on demand boxes

This FOMO always seems to happen to a hypothetical other person. Given that we've now thoroughly established that the contents of these boxes is only rarely meaningfully "exclusive" I would suggest they make it harder for a toy company to emotionally manipulate them.

[Dragonus45]

But it's already guaranteed to sell out. Now they make sure there's a grace period to get it even after it sells out. What's the alternative you want them to do? Because presumably "just make more" is not viable, whether because they're money-grubbing bastards or they don't want to overestimate and have stock lying around, or because they can't afford to devote the entire factory to Cursed Cities forever.

Just make more is absolutely viable, they have a great idea of what potential demand will be ahead of time and could absolutely print more. Instead they are making it clear ahead of time that they don't plan to print many of these at all with this print on demand model, which is just going to drive up demand for them and put a lot of money in scalpers pockets.

This FOMO always seems to happen to a hypothetical other person. Given that we've now thoroughly established that the contents of these boxes is only rarely meaningfully "exclusive" I would suggest they make it harder for a toy company to emotionally manipulate them.

Yes, FOMO is clearly mythical and no company has ever used it to leverage or manipulate consumers. Clearly all the evidence contrary is just me being personally delusional.

[druid91]

I mean. FOMO definitely motivated me to buy my copy of the Imperial Infantrymen's Handbook. And true to form, they completely yeeted it into the memory hole shortly after I bought mine.

[Brookshw]

I mean. FOMO definitely motivated me to buy my copy of the Imperial Infantrymen's Handbook. And true to form, they completely yeeted it into the memory hole shortly after I bought mine.

My buying habits are curtailed and I only buy something if I have a particular use for it or want to paint it. Most recently I had been considering buying Cursed City as something to use to get my kids into tabletop gaming, only to discover it wasn't available anywhere outside of scalpers and was a non-starter. This led me to discover Heroquest is reprinting and will be available for retail, now I'll wait and buy that rather than any alternative to something GW may offer. I'm sure the loss of my sale, and loss of sales resulting for people with similar purchasing habits, is well offset by the profit GW sees from the FOMO sales, but there is some unrealized profits from the "one and done" print run model. Launching a print on demand option after a certain amount of time may be a decent option.

[druid91]

My buying habits are curtailed and I only buy something if I have a particular use for it or want to paint it. Most recently I had been considering buying Cursed City as something to use to get my kids into tabletop gaming, only to discover it wasn't available anywhere outside of scalpers and was a non-starter. This led me to discover Heroquest is reprinting and will be available for retail, now I'll wait and buy that rather than any alternative to something GW may offer. I'm sure the loss of my sale, and loss of sales resulting for people with similar purchasing habits, is well offset by the profit GW sees from the FOMO sales, but there is some unrealized profits from the "one and done" print run model. Launching a print on demand option after a certain amount of time may be a decent option.

That is an issue yes. Print on Demand is something I do think is worth pursuing, but I also feel like the motivation for the FOMO model is that so long as models and books are sitting on their shelves, they aren't making GW money and the "I can always get it later." effect is strong.

[LeSwordfish]

In fact, I would imagine having X thousand copies of whatever hanging around costs them money. Not only have you spent money to make it, but now it's taking up shelf space, and warehouse space, and space in vans, that other things could be using that will actually sell.

[Blackhawk748]

That is an issue yes. Print on Demand is something I do think is worth pursuing, but I also feel like the motivation for the FOMO model is that so long as models and books are sitting on their shelves, they aren't making GW money and the "I can always get it later." effect is strong.

Ya, but then there's people like me who couldn't actually know about a thing when it was live and now can't get it at all.

Hello Dead Men Walking that went OoP stupidly fast.