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Thread: Hiding while full attacking?
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2007-11-10, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Hiding while full attacking?
So I've been doing some research, and I realized, to my own surprise, that I actually have no idea just how, exactly, the Hide skill is supposed to work while attacking. I thought I did, but now I think I was wrong.
Some believe you can do a full attack while remaining hidden (with the most popular caveat being that you would have to make a Hide check, at of course a -20 penalty, after each and every attack). This crowd also frequently holds that Hide in Plain Sight would be required to accomplish it, even though I've never seen a convincing argument from them that it couldn't be done by anyone with the Hide skill using a ranged weapon from concealment or cover (since if each Hide check is successful, then clearly, you never become "observed").
Others believe you can only make one attack because hiding is either not an action (when moving already) or a move action if you attack.
So, what do the rest of you think? Can you make a full attack while hidden or not? And if you can, why in the world is HIPS a requirement to do it? Why wouldn't cover or concealment and just not failing any of those Hide checks (so that you never become "observed") be enough?SpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerMade you look.
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2007-11-10, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Hiding while full attacking?
You can make one ranged attack, and then hide at a -20 penalty. That would be your round, and you don't need Hide in Plain Sight as long as you don't get caught.
Originally Posted by SRDOriginally Posted by SRD
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2007-11-10, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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- Western Australia
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Re: Hiding while full attacking?
The second is correct, as far as I can tell.
Originally Posted by the SRD
1) Melee works exactly like ranged; it requires a move action to hide again, and thus precludes a full attack.
2) Hiding can be accomplished by moving, so anything that lets you move while attacking (even full-attacking, like a five-foot step) will let you make a Hide check in melee combat.
Since, but for the specific exception, ranged combat would also be under option 2, I think it's fair to rule that melee is also an exception and thus option 1 is correct.
Edit: Alternatively, given that 10ft. requirement for sniping... you could take that to mean that you cannot hide after attacking from closer than 10ft. (i.e. at 5ft, that is, adjacent). So full attacks are out in any case; the question is whether you can make any melee attacks and then hide. Maybe a reach attack?
"Oww! Hey! Who hit me with that glaive?!"Last edited by Peregrine; 2007-11-10 at 02:41 AM. Reason: Correcting formatting
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2007-11-10, 03:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Oakdale, PA
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Re: Hiding while full attacking?
Hmm... yes it appears that you cannot hide after making a melee attack. Makes sense too. If someone stabs you in the ankle, you know exactly where they stabbed you from, even if they are hiding under a table. With a sniper attack, you only get a single shot at them.
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2007-11-10, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Sunnydale
Re: Hiding while full attacking?
That's not what the skill description says:
It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.
Originally Posted by Nowhere Girl- not being observed, or Hide in Plain Sight
- cover/concealment/camouflage in natural terrain/the supernatural version of HiPS near shadow(s)
- you take the appropriate penalties: -20 (normally), or - the distance moved in feet if you were already hidden and using the Move between Cover rule (Complete Adventurer)
- Your Hide check still beats the opposed Spot check, repeated on each attack.
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2007-11-10, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: Hiding while full attacking?
SpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerMade you look.
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2007-11-10, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
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- Sunnydale
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2007-11-10, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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Re: Hiding while full attacking?
Well, yes, that's what I meant. It's a really good feat in its own right, though, even without just using it to do full attacks from hiding. Especially for someone who wants to do sneak attacks. Especially if you have a wizard who likes to drop battlefield control spells.
"Sure, drop some fog. I'll use it as concealment and sneak attack because I ignore concealment miss chances!"
Oh wait. That's by level 15. The wizard's just winning alone by then.
Nevermind.Last edited by Nowhere Girl; 2007-11-10 at 02:27 PM.
SpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerSpoilerMade you look.