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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Dungeons as objective

    So here’s a setting concept:

    Dungeons are a kind of Architectural magic that anyone can do (martial or spell caster). The gods did it yadda yadda. You have to design the dungeon yourself but any number of people can help you build it. Once built is has to be stocked with monsters, though some will naturally come to it.

    The monsters are basically a power source, their day to days slowly charging the magic of the place and their spilled blood becomes the trigger. So once you start conquering a dungeon, you can’t back out lest all the stored magic dissipate.

    Some Dungeon spells are extraordinarily potent, being the equivalent to Tomes for ability scores or granting a bonus feat. Some might might be a means to place a powerful enchantment on an item.

    Like tomes, dungeons eventually recharge and can be conquered to receive the same benefit again.

    To be such a dungeon there has to be at least 5 rooms connected by one or more paths. The simpler the structure, the weaker the boon.

    Mages of this world are largely responsible for the particularly bad disposition of many monsters and certain races. Increasing their breeding rate to unsustainable levels, forcing them to raid or engage in cannibalism in order to supplement food supply has made them easily targeted villains. This makes it easier for “civilized” people to justify exterminating them for greater strength or intellect or a magic item.

    Most Dungeons are known, most have an understood effect on completion and Adventurer’s have to compete for or buy the right to delve. The players have their own motivations for trying to conquer them, but toward level 10 they should be designing their own dungeon.

    I realize in hindsight this is a riff on MAGI. Well it was good then; it’s good now.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2018

    Default Re: Dungeons as objective

    I guess you could have the dungeons magically give you xp for completing them. And have no other sources of xp in the world. It would explain why almost everyone is a 1st-level Commoner. And having the explanation be "the gods require you to prove your worth before they will permit you to wield any power" makes enough sense.

    Though, in this case, I'd probably start calling the whole thing "The Trials." Matching lore to mechanics might be challenging though. If these things are meant to serve as tests, why would more than one person be allowed in at a time? What's to stop a group of seasoned adventurers from accepting money to escort someone weaker through the dungeon?

    It seems like some dungeons would necessarily wind up offering rewards that some party members wouldn't care about. "Let's do the Int-boosting dungeon!" says the Wizard. "No! Let's do the Str-boosting dungeon!" says the Barbarian.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: Dungeons as objective

    Overall sounds cool, and it makes sense why there'd be odd dungeons around beyond some of the cliches like an ancient society's ruins.

    Fluff-wise, dungeons could also be magically-saturated areas where it's easier to accumulate strength. Hence (by fluff) leveling up and gaining experience happens in dungeons only. I'd still recommend that, mechanically, it can be gained outside dungeons, so as to reward players for when they do stuff outside of a dungeon.

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    So here’s a setting concept:

    Dungeons are a kind of Architectural magic that anyone can do (martial or spell caster). The gods did it yadda yadda. You have to design the dungeon yourself but any number of people can help you build it. Once built is has to be stocked with monsters, though some will naturally come to it.

    The monsters are basically a power source, their day to days slowly charging the magic of the place and their spilled blood becomes the trigger. So once you start conquering a dungeon, you can’t back out lest all the stored magic dissipate.

    Some Dungeon spells are extraordinarily potent, being the equivalent to Tomes for ability scores or granting a bonus feat. Some might might be a means to place a powerful enchantment on an item.
    So, is the motivation for building a dungeon that the builder can clear the dungeon and get the boon?
    E.g., it's basically a way to make a recharge-able boost. The builder likely gets it first, then leaves the dungeon alone for others to deal with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons
    Though, in this case, I'd probably start calling the whole thing "The Trials." Matching lore to mechanics might be challenging though. If these things are meant to serve as tests, why would more than one person be allowed in at a time? What's to stop a group of seasoned adventurers from accepting money to escort someone weaker through the dungeon?
    For this, I could see that the energy of a dungeon, and its boon, follow the activity in the dungeon. In a sense, it knows if you are just hanging back and doing nothing, and won't bless you.

    Perhaps boons that are objects are attuned to the user, such that they can't easily be given away? Or borrow from some MMOs and there's something like a level cap to use items of a certain boon type (although if a weakling somehow clears a tough dungeon, the attunement to him would let him use it. This restriction would be for selling/lending boon-items.)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dungeons as objective

    I suppose that my main caution about this setup is the old legal principle that Explicit expression of one thing is the exclusion of others.

    By providing a specific in-world lore and system for what a Dungeon is and how one comes to be, you create a weird space for other adventure environments. Dungeon is generally used as a game term, not a diagetic one; for most games I've seen or been involved with, no character will ever refer to anything other than a prison complex as a dungeon; they refer to ruins, tombs, lairs, caverns, keeps, vaults. Making Dungeon a recognized in-universe term with more specific connotations kind of implies that all those other things aren't dungeons with a small-d. It then also becomes weird to have these separate, non-Dungeon dungeons, that also happen to be filled with treasure, traps, and monsters.

    Personally, I don't like to make any world-building choices that seem too transparently game-y. But if that doesn't bother you, then don't let my objections count for much.
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    The desire to appear clever often impedes actually being so.

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: Dungeons as objective

    I agree that "Dungeon" as an in-universe term is probably best replaced by something like a "Trial".
    That way you divide the metagame concept of a dungeon with the in-universe idea.

    If you still want to call it Dungeons, how about have a history of it in your setting. Such as:
    There's always been people who either like to explore or like (or have to) fight monsters who accost civilization. Over time, those became known as adventurers and the locations where monsters generally dwell as dungeons. Over time (or rather quickly by divine revelation), it became clear that some dungeons were made by the Gods (or at least some ancient being of power) as a way of cultivating and harvesting power. In time, linguistic patterns shifted and place of power such as that became known as Dungeons. So while 'dungeon' can refer to most any dangerous place or ruin, it generally refers to places made via the architectural magic to be a proper Dungeon.

    That way the in-universe language the characters use is in synch with the out-of-character terminology.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Dungeons as objective

    Dungeon was really more a short hand for “Architectural 3D Rune which is cast by overcoming the challenges contained within.”

    My reference to the gods was that they pioneered the kind of magic and “divine dungeons” that they had created would be a final classification of such structures. Possibly still recharging before they can grant a divine spark. Maybe the impending recharge of such a place is what causes a “gold rush” as people scramble to overcome dungeons so they have a chance to attain godhood.

    And while there might be mild contention between players about what order to approach dungeons, the notion that you can solo or PUG them would be nonsense, so you’d do the Int dungeon bc you know you’ll need the Wizards help doing the Str dungeon.

    While it is game-y to incorporate such structures to empower you, I don’t think it’s very far removed from “20k gp, 25 weeks of down time, read book for two weeks, 20k gp, 25 weeks of down time, read book for two weeks, repeat.” Instead making the process much deeper.

    And yes, you build your own dungeons with the intent of customizing such a boon. I think the default is that they can’t boost stats past 20, but they can grant feats.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Dungeons as objective

    This reminds me of the genre of Dungeon-Core fics where usually the protagonist of the story finds themself as the core or central mind of a "dungeon" that more or plays out like someone playing the game Dungeon Keeper. They have a central core to protect and can build/rearrange a dungeon and populate it with monsters, etc to keep the place running.

    Dungeon Keeper Ami is the first one of these I've seen. It's basically a crossover fic where Sailor Mercury ends up teleported to a world based on the Dungeon Keeper game. In this setting, dungeons are all run and maintained by Keepers, people who have bonded with dungeon hearts which were created by the dark gods to drain mana from the world and spread their influence. Keepers gain access to significant wealth and power due to the dungeon hearts ability to summon or enslave minions and transmute valuable items into gold and then transmute ratios of gold and mana into whatever else they may desire. However, if a Keeper's dungeon heart is ever destroyed then they get banished to the realm of the dark gods and usually get consumed by them.

    So, in this setting, "dungeons" can basically be whatever sort of base or lair the Keeper constructs to protect their dungeon heart and house their minions. The hearts also drain mana from the world (which conveniently requires there to be an unbroken pathway from the surface to the heart itself so Keeper's can't just wall their dungeon heart in a sealed room) and spreads a corruption across the land. The heroes of this setting would love nothing more than to wipe out every dungeon heart they can, but Keepers can create multiple dungeon hearts (though they still get banished temporarily if one gets destroyed and risk being consumed) and can spread their influence. Heroes don't explicitly gain anything from killing a Keeper's minions (as far as I know) but the gods of Light do support people's efforts to destroy the Keepers and can grant powers to champions.


    The other one I know of is "I Woke up as a Dungeon, Now What?" where the dungeons are basically like demiplanes. Each one has an intelligent dungeon core that runs it, it needs and entrance connecting it to the material world, and it populates it's little demiplane with rooms, monsters, set pieces, and pieces of loot. It's apparent goal is to lure people or animals into it where they can be killed by the monsters and it does that by supplying loot. The dungeons also apparently feed off of conflict or dead bodies.

    From what I've read, dungeons here are treated kind of like a risky but rewarding source of resources and wealth since skilled adventurers can repeatedly delve into them and get valuable loot. A small tribe of people finding the titular protagonist dungeon consider it a blessing since they can use it to support themselves and there are larger empires who intentionally wiped out dungeons in an area to deprive people of the resources.


    I haven't heard of a setting where "dungeons" of this sort are the setting's main source of XP, but it does sound like an interesting take on it. TVtropes has a page listing these sorts of stories.
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