A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    The failsafes aren't and the warp core explodes if you stare at it too hard?
    The Enterprise was a deathtrap during TNG.
    To be fair, nearly all Starfleet ships were a "deathtrap" of sorts because the only thing holding the antimatter in place is a delicate magnetic field.


    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Data has some basic system happen that clears out the Iconian program/thing
    His brain reset to a previous android Restore Point before the infection.
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Probably. Given that it actually explode the ship at least three times but it managed to unhappen due to timey wimey stuff in the actual series.

    (And Voyager ejected its warp core four separate times, although one of those was the copy Voyager. But then Voyager also managed to explode 15 of the 2 shuttles they started with.)
    Voyager Gothic is pretty amazing, if anyone hasn't read it.
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  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Voyager Gothic is pretty amazing, if anyone hasn't read it.
    All I could think of reading that was TFS Goku:

    Ensign One-of-One : We lost a shuttle, I don't know what we'll do if we lose the other.
    Ensign Goku : Replicate another?
    1/1 : You... Can't replicate a shuttle.
    Goku : Then what's the Shuttle Button for?
    1/1 : What shuttle button? There is no shuttle button!
    Goku : Then where'd I get all these shuttles...?
    <camera pans to hangar stuffed with shuttles>
    1/1 : *internalized screaming*

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Misery Esquire View Post
    All I could think of reading that was TFS Goku
    It made me think of was the TNG episode where Dr.Crusher gets stuck in the pocket dimension where stuff keeps disappearing.
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2021-09-25 at 11:04 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Misery Esquire View Post
    All I could think of reading that was TFS Goku:

    Ensign One-of-One : We lost a shuttle, I don't know what we'll do if we lose the other.
    Ensign Goku : Replicate another?
    1/1 : You... Can't replicate a shuttle.
    Goku : Then what's the Shuttle Button for?
    1/1 : What shuttle button? There is no shuttle button!
    Goku : Then where'd I get all these shuttles...?
    <camera pans to hangar stuffed with shuttles>
    1/1 : *internalized screaming*
    Oh man don't even get me started on Voyager and the replicator/holodeck.
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    To be honest, Voyager was supposed to be about the ship having limited resources but the writers abandoned that within the first season and ended up going with status quo is God and they are in prefect shape between episodes.

    As for Voyager and the holodeck it has, they try to suggest that the energy for the holodeck is somehow incompatible with the other ship's power systems. The writers wanted to feature holodeck episodes though and they just didn't think through the details any.

    In fact, the writers didn't care at all about the series but wanted a Redux of the Next Generation and so they ignored pretty much everything they had set up. The whole Marquis living on the ship and having the two crews just immediately combine with no problems by the third episode.

    The solutions for this episode are all basic IT stuff now. Geordi's solution from Data is, in the words of Roy from the IT crowd "did you turn it off and on again?"

    That is because at time of the episode, computers were pretty different than now and were new technology basically. It does make it funny that said solution doesn't occur to Geordi immediately but we have had real world tech development that was not predicted at the time of the episode. Technology marched on.

    As for the number of timey wimey the ship explodes, I will add a tracker for that when the first time it happens. Also for the failsafes fail.

    The failsafes if I remember correctly were all set up as physical components not computer systems so they would have to be destroyed in order to not work but they (the writers) just did that anyway.

    I would say that I forgot about the pocket dimension Dr. Crusher episode and only remembered it after it got mentioned. I have always remembered her episode with the candle and the ghost though. Probably because of how full of narm and stupid it is. And then apparently despite the others promising Dr. Crusher to never speak of what happened, if I am remembering correctly, all of Starfleet knows in lower decks. Really?
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    As for Voyager and the holodeck it has, they try to suggest that the energy for the holodeck is somehow incompatible with the other ship's power systems. The writers wanted to feature holodeck episodes though and they just didn't think through the details any.
    Not what I'm talking about.

    They kept the energy issues in the background for most of the series, but still had them present. Neelix cooked most meals, replicator rations were gambled, stuff like that. We also know that Harry ate Neelix's food for a week to save up enough replicator rations to make a clarinet. My issue is that everyone replicated clothing and props for the Holodeck. The Holodeck itself could produce these things, as it produced everything else. You could walk into the holodeck in undies or a more-or-less skintight suit designed for this, but no. This is actually an issue I have with all holodeck-equipped ships (Why would Jake have an actual fishing pole when travelling to a space station for an indefinite amount of time?!), but it's significantly worse with Voyager, since their replicator engery was specifically rationed. It's straight up frivolous waste at that point.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    You know, once the writers decided to give up on their own premise, I gave up on it too.

    The points you mentioned are problems but with how the writers went, I just consider it a whole other way that Voyager is a bad star trek series.

    Those rations for replicators will vanish in the first season or second season or at some point after Harry gets his clarinet and like be completely ignored. If I remember correctly from the show
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    To be fair, nearly all Starfleet ships were a "deathtrap" of sorts because the only thing holding the antimatter in place is a delicate magnetic field.
    I dunno, the original NCC-1701 wasn't apt to explode if Scotty had beans for dinner the night before the way the 1701-D felt like sometimes.

    (And let's not forget the time Neelix nearly blew up Voyager with cheese.)

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    To be honest, Voyager was supposed to be about the ship having limited resources but the writers abandoned that within the first season and ended up going with status quo is God and they are in prefect shape between episodes.
    Although much of this was dictates from upon high apparently. Year of Hell was originally supposed to be a whole season arc that essentially soft rebooted Voyager back to the original premise, but bosses were not having it and so it got crunched down to a two parter.
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2021-09-25 at 03:10 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Look we could discuss Voyagers forever and indeed that might be fun. But this is the TNG thread.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    The solutions for this episode are all basic IT stuff now. Geordi's solution from Data is, in the words of Roy from the IT crowd "did you turn it off and on again?"

    That is because at time of the episode, computers were pretty different than now and were new technology basically. It does make it funny that said solution doesn't occur to Geordi immediately but we have had real world tech development that was not predicted at the time of the episode. Technology marched on.
    Yeah, this really shows how TNG was a product of a time when personal computers were not a widespread thing. This climactic solution to avert a character death is literally a basic precaution that is built into computer operating systems, to the point where they couldn't write this as a plot point today without coming up with a reason this wouldn't work.
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  12. - Top - End - #312
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Not what I'm talking about.

    They kept the energy issues in the background for most of the series, but still had them present. Neelix cooked most meals, replicator rations were gambled, stuff like that. We also know that Harry ate Neelix's food for a week to save up enough replicator rations to make a clarinet. My issue is that everyone replicated clothing and props for the Holodeck. The Holodeck itself could produce these things, as it produced everything else. You could walk into the holodeck in undies or a more-or-less skintight suit designed for this, but no. This is actually an issue I have with all holodeck-equipped ships (Why would Jake have an actual fishing pole when travelling to a space station for an indefinite amount of time?!), but it's significantly worse with Voyager, since their replicator engery was specifically rationed. It's straight up frivolous waste at that point.
    I'm pretty sure holodecks that could provide holographic clothing for the participants didn't exist until the Enterprise E did it in ST First Contact? Every time holodecks are used in the series' they need to provide their own clothing.

    But I agree with the fishing pole being unnecessary.
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2021-09-25 at 06:56 PM.
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 2 Episode 12
    The Royale
    Stardate: 42625.4

    [Plot]
    The crew visit a planet that there was strange reports of weird power readings or something. The crew do a little bit of investigation and find some piece from some NASA ship. And some kind of building.

    So the crew beam down to the building, and the building is the only real thing there. The away team does a little bit of investigating and determine there is no where else to go. So the away team goes into the building.

    The building is some time period of a Casino, and has events happening. It also cuts off the away team from the ship. They do a little bit of investigating more, and find a skeleton, and a book. Casino Royale. Somehow, the away team is able to communicate briefly with the ship, and discuss the book, which was apparently a rather terrible one.

    From some detail, it turns out that the Skeleton was a person on a ship that crashed on planet somehow, thanks to some aliens. those aliens decided to create something for the person to survive and went with the book. The person didn't like the book though.

    The away team take actions to cheat at the Casino games and get the money to complete the Book's plot. That allows them to leave, where before they were not able to when they tried.

    The episode ends with some question about how the ship got out so far.

    [Rating]
    2 - Poor episode: Not too bad but has one or two week areas (Poor plot, weak character use, bad effects)

    {Episode Commentary}
    Yeah, this is a bad episode. The idea of aliens creating an environment based on a book feels like a couple of other TOS episodes where aliens create areas for learning about humans or such. There were a few in TOS -- The wild west one, Squire of Gothos, the one with Abe Lincoln and Kahless, the one with Apollo, the Metrons, the one with fizzy hair girl and it had the rock crushing (andromeda stuff episode? I think some part of some episode of TOS had a girl with fizzy hair {It was slightly long and had some curve/curl/zig-zag}), and especially the one of the gangster planet.

    Then there is the book itself. Apparently it is based on that novel, which the story makes as pretty bad in universe. Meaning that the book keep playing despite the person the aliens stuck there having died. I would have thought that the book-building-environment would have just shut down as soon as that person had died. Apparently the aliens put in some extra long batteries.

    Then when the away team leaves, it is not made clear that the building and area disappears. Slightly seems, that it will just go over from the start again.

    The next real issue, is that the ship was somehow supposed to get as far out as it did, but the technology element seems to be considerable less than what would have been required. So the ship would have needed help to travel. This also begs the question of why the aliens just didn't fix the person some, if they could, and dump them in an escape pod closer to earth.

    If that was not possible, then why talk to the person, or use something else present for the area? Was that book really the only one on the ship? was there others? what made the aliens pick it opposed to anything else?

    The ship has a flag with stars on it, a flag with 52 stars and American. Just a quirk to mention.

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

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  14. - Top - End - #314
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    While bad, at least this episode is memorable. Enough quirky, unusual stuff happens to make an impression. Contrast that with some of the other bad episodes we covered recently, especially those with a romantic main plot and a generic sci-fi B-plot stapled on.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    I always felt that the aliens who built the casino were on some higher level so far removed from us mentally, that they did it out of curiosity and then abandoned it after getting bored because they didn't see the human as anything but a simple lifeform. It's like us building an ant farm to watch the ants scuttle about in their tiny enclosed space.

    I did like the little mention of the US flag with more than 50 stars.

    And that Data could make a killing in Vegas. I wonder how much he has to hold back when he plays poker with the crew?
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2021-09-28 at 08:16 AM.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Isn't it "Hotel Royale" rather than "Casino Royale"?

    "Casino Royale" was the first James Bond book, losely adapted into one of the weirdest (and most hilarious ) spoofs I have ever seen. (This is well before the 2006 version with Daniel Craig)
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    And that Data could make a killing in Vegas. I wonder how much he has to hold back when he plays poker with the crew?
    We do know that he is capable of perfectly stacking a deck while shuffling.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I always felt that the aliens who built the casino were on some higher level so far removed from us mentally, that they did it out of curiosity and then abandoned it after getting bored because they didn't see the human as anything but a simple lifeform. It's like us building an ant farm to watch the ants scuttle about in their tiny enclosed space.
    So basically like Squire of Gothos if he got bored and wandered off

  19. - Top - End - #319
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Okay so the fizzy hair girl is the episode of deep space 9 with the tribbles
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    It definitely wasn't an amazing episode, but it was fun. It definitely felt a lot like an old TOS episode. The explanation was interesting, even if it was a bit flawed. I thought their solution to escape was clever as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I always felt that the aliens who built the casino were on some higher level so far removed from us mentally, that they did it out of curiosity and then abandoned it after getting bored because they didn't see the human as anything but a simple lifeform. It's like us building an ant farm to watch the ants scuttle about in their tiny enclosed space.

    I did like the little mention of the US flag with more than 50 stars.

    And that Data could make a killing in Vegas. I wonder how much he has to hold back when he plays poker with the crew?
    I got the impression that the aliens were well-intentioned but didn't really know what to do with the human they found. They probably didn't have the ability to actually communicate with him or send him back where he came from, so they built him a little habitat and hoped for the best. They probably had no idea how much he hated it there.

    As for Data, I imagine there's a reason the other officers play poker with him rather than blackjack or roulette.
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    As for the number of timey wimey the ship explodes, I will add a tracker for that when the first time it happens. Also for the failsafes fail.
    This may be more challenging than originally anticipated...

  22. - Top - End - #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seppl View Post
    We do know that he is capable of perfectly stacking a deck while shuffling.
    That is true. Heck, he did it subconsciously in an episode (I forgot the title but it had a time loop negative space wedgie going on).


    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    So basically like Squire of Gothos if he got bored and wandered off
    Heh, basically. ^^


    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    I got the impression that the aliens were well-intentioned but didn't really know what to do with the human they found. They probably didn't have the ability to actually communicate with him or send him back where he came from, so they built him a little habitat and hoped for the best. They probably had no idea how much he hated it there.
    This was my first impression of the aliens from 2001: A Space Odyssey when I saw the movie, but after reading the books, I was pretty wrong in that thought.

    But yeah, these aliens in the episode I don't think we're malevolent.
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  23. - Top - End - #323
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    And that Data could make a killing in Vegas. I wonder how much he has to hold back when he plays poker with the crew?
    As I recall when the crew were stranded in the 1800s Data made money by cheating at cards.
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  24. - Top - End - #324
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    In the Time's Arrow 2-parter episode Data made money by playing at poker - I don't recall it ever being stated in the episode that he cheated though.
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Season 2 Episode 10
    the Dauphin
    Stardate: 42568.8

    [Plot]
    the crew got sent to pick up the future leader of a planet that is war torn and said future leader's qualifications is being the kid of the opposing sides. {this is about the same mentality that being a highly skilled cake decorator makes you qualified for running the government}
    Way late with this because I've been busy, but the whole "kid of the two sides becomes the leader" is far from an absurd notion. It isn't about how qualified she is, but giving both sides a leader that they can see as theirs, and thus get both groups of people together instead of fighting. Fundamentally the same idea as political marriages in actual history.

  26. - Top - End - #326
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    Way late with this because I've been busy, but the whole "kid of the two sides becomes the leader" is far from an absurd notion. It isn't about how qualified she is, but giving both sides a leader that they can see as theirs, and thus get both groups of people together instead of fighting. Fundamentally the same idea as political marriages in actual history.
    yes but the episode brings it up a couple of times that she will be in charge and then forgets about it. then she is descended from two general members on opposing sides, the closest equivalent being some random French person and some random English person, with them totally being peasants, and their daughter will be the leader/ruler of England & France; all happening during the 100 years war.

    that just doesn't make much sense but giving it is TNG, i could roll with it. but the episode doesn't take any time to really pay attention to it. the episode is mainly about how wesley falls in love with her, and then she falls in love with him. i was really hoping or presuming that it would come up because of all the potential bonding it could have given wesley and salia. i don't have real problems with this part.

    i really don't like the inclusion of the shape shifting because it feels that it is there because it says "Star Trek : tng", so must have space or scifi parts. you could have cut the shape shifting parts and the story would have still worked and I think that it would have been better even.

    ------------------------------------

    Season 2 Episode 13
    Time Squared
    Stardate: 42679.2

    [Plot]
    Riker botches making an omelette and only Worl likes it out of him and Geordi and Dr, Pulaski and Data, who doesn't partake.

    the crew discover a Federation Shuttlepod that happens to be one from their own ship with a duplicate of Picard on board. The crew do some opposite effect and so revive the Picardie (Picard Duplicate) and the Shuttlepod for accessing the Shuttlepods logs. The logs show that the Enterprise was destroyed. In about/exactly 6 hours.

    It turns out that Picardie fled the ship, and is a bit cowardly. Picard is somewhat off put by this. Some talk with Riker over how Picardie got to their time. Then a Vortex opens up beneath the ship. The crew try to do something to escape the Vortex, and some blue beams-things hit the the two Picards. Naturally, that must be way Picardie left, to keep the blue beams-things from the Enterprise.

    Picard tries to get Picardie to help him out, but that doesn't work. Then, with Picard having not come up with anything else, Picard kills Picardie, and has the Enterprise fly through the Vortex. Upon which it goes back to whatever/whereever. And Picard was not happy about meeting his other self.

    [Rating]
    2 - Poor episode: Not too bad but has one or two week areas (Poor plot, weak character use, bad effects)

    {Episode Commentary}
    This is just about as bad as the last episode was. The crisis pops up out of nowhere (the Vortex), and the solution is pretty out there. Of course, things would have been way more understandable had some explanation or detail about why the Vortex even exists could have been made. That way, what happened in the episode would have been more understandable, and I would consider it an average episode rather than a poor one.

    I don't think that the plot makes an kind of sense beyond, the Vortex exists, the Enterprise was destroyed because the crew did some other thing, and Picardie went back in time. But, would Picard having just stunned Picardie rather than Kill Him worked just as well, while flying the ship through the Vortex? Who knows.

    The lack of detail of how or even why, or even what, the Vortex is, makes me decide to explain it in a completely different fashion. I would prefer to just think that maybe Q is having some fun with the Crew for Q's own amusement, because the plot with the Vortex just makes no sense. Usually in the show when such weird space anomalies appear, the crew discuss what said anomaly is or what it is made of. That helps us viewers understand somewhat, and so what happens in the story makes some sense too. That doesn't apply to this episode, and I frankly have no way to understand why exactly Killing Picardie even works as the right solution, or what exactly the entire point of what the Vortex was. Some random thing for the crew to encounter?

    The Episode is called "Time Squared" but I don't think that I have seen anything that really explains the reason for the episode title. Usually the episodes having some plot or dialogue that relates to the episode title in some way. Not here, from what I can tell. A better example of Time Squared would be the scenes of Data being joined by himself in the earlier episode about that guy would was tampering with dimensions and managed to open a dimension kind of portal thing and Data had to close it.

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

    Trackers)
    Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
    Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
    Poker Playing: 1
    Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 1 ()
    Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
    Hidden Gems: 4
    Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 (marc alaimo plays a romylan here)
    Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
    Prime Directives: 2
    Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
    Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
    Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
    Pithy Aesops: 1
    Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
    Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
    Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
    Actually Alien Aliens: 1
    Lore's Appearances: 1
    *Data's Emotions: 3
    *Troi Troubles: 1
    *Money Matters: 1
    Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
    1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
    2) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:
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  27. - Top - End - #327
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Not just a weak episode, but a disappointing one. The episode starts with a strong, intriguing setup. Star Trek has had many well constructed time travel puzzle plots (if you don't think about them too hard), and with this setup and the episode title one would expect that the audience is in for a fun ride. But the episode just meanders on and the solutions to the plot feel arbitrary and are not properly set up. I guess they wanted to focus on the "What if Picard met himself?" angle, but that one also does not work: Picardie (as you call him) is incoherent throughout most of the episode. The regular Picard felt a lot more like early season 1 Picard than the thoughtful, diplomatic Picard we had at this point in the series. And both Picard's actions felt forced by the authors, instead of deriving naturally from the characters. Thus we have a) a puzzle with an arbitrary, forced solution, b) a character episode where the characters don't feel like themselves, and c), the combination of a and b makes it even worse by forcing the characters to act in the way the plot requires.

    PS: I just read on Memory Alpha that this episode was intended as a part of a greater arc over several episodes, involving Q. But that angle was scrapped, explaining why the solution in the end felt so tacked on.

  28. - Top - End - #328
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Seppl View Post
    PS: I just read on Memory Alpha that this episode was intended as a part of a greater arc over several episodes, involving Q. But that angle was scrapped, explaining why the solution in the end felt so tacked on.
    Yeah, i read this on memory alpha as well. Apparently Gene nixed the idea but no explanation why. so we get the bizarre ending. also leaves everything confusing. why kill Picardie? why fly through the vortex? i really feel that this is one of those episodes where they ought to have told Gene to shut up
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    In the Time's Arrow 2-parter episode Data made money by playing at poker - I don't recall it ever being stated in the episode that he cheated though.
    Data doesn't need to "cheat". He could count cards perfectly and easily win that way. Incidentally, counting cards is considered cheating in Vegas, so I guess the definition of cheating needs clarification. ^^


    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Yeah, i read this on memory alpha as well. Apparently Gene nixed the idea but no explanation why. so we get the bizarre ending. also leaves everything confusing. why kill Picardie? why fly through the vortex? i really feel that this is one of those episodes where they ought to have told Gene to shut up
    So should this get a +1 on the "Gene ruins Star Trek" meter?

    The only thing I remember fondly of this episode was some outtakes with Data and Geordi. The episode itself was just wasted potential.
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  30. - Top - End - #330
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Data doesn't need to "cheat". He could count cards perfectly and easily win that way. Incidentally, counting cards is considered cheating in Vegas, so I guess the definition of cheating needs clarification. ^^
    The general principle with counting cards (in your head) is that it's not illegal, but it's still something you can normally get banned from a casino for.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

    Counting cards with an electronic device, however, tends to be criminal.

    So (assuming they can't detect Data's positronic brain) if they looked at Data's behaviour and concluded "He's card-counting", the casino could ban him and yet not accuse him of cheating.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-09-30 at 09:48 AM.
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