New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

[GloatingSwine]

Data doesn't need to "cheat". He could count cards perfectly and easily win that way. Incidentally, counting cards is considered cheating in Vegas, so I guess the definition of cheating needs clarification. ^^

Counting cards isn't cheating in poker, it's playing Poker properly. You aren't playing against the house, you're playing against the other players at the table. Figuring out which cards have and haven't been seen and thereby what other players might have is one of the key skills of poker that all players are expected to be doing. Also in poker the deck is shuffled between hands so card counting isn't a long term thing it's an immediate in the moment thing.

It's considered cheating in blackjack because you can use it to get an edge over the house. Because the deck isn't shuffled between hands (hands are shorter and shuffling between hands slowed the game down unacceptably, so they use six decks shuffled together to make it harder to keep count) you can determine whether the pool of cards in the shoe are favourable to the house or player based on the rules the dealer has to use. (If there are more high cards in the shoe the player has the advantage, if there are more low cards the dealer has the advantage).

Memory isn't actually too much of a thing in card countin. You don't really need to memorise which cards have been seen, just assign each card a positive or negative score based on its value to the house or player and keep a basic arithmetical count and you'll know which way the shoe is biased at any given time and how much, play conservatively until the shoe is biased to players then start betting. The trick is that you're playing at a table of 5-6 players plus the dealer and you have to clock every card dealt to all of them and do it all in your head without making it obvious that you're doing it. Which Data could easily do, of course.

[russdm]

So should this get a +1 on the "Gene ruins Star Trek" meter?

The only thing I remember fondly of this episode was some outtakes with Data and Geordi. The episode itself was just wasted potential.

Well I don't see it as falling into that category. The episode is wonky but I don't see going out of its way to wreck anything that has come before and it also doesn't make the crew look like a bunch of idiots. I see "Gene ruins Star Trek " as the episode taking a general piss on everything about Star Trek; basically treating everything from before as a joke. The episode would also be a bad episode, getting the lowest rating.

Don't worry, we have an episode coming up that will have that, if I am remembering correctly the episode

[Seppl]

Yet, Data is never seen winning at the officer's Poker table. Which is kind of realistic. He may be playing the odds perfectly, but any good player can do that to an acceptable degree. What Data lacks is the ability to bluff or read bluffs, which is a required skill to beat the odds. He is getting better at it, though. In the San Francisco time travel episode (which is late season 5) he is able to easily beat a professional card shark.

edit: No, I was wrong. He does win at least once, prompting Riker to acknowledge his skill.

[Velaryon]

I agree that the "Picard meets himself from the near future" plot hook was wasted here. I don't know if this could have ever been rewritten into a great episode, but surely it could have been at least a pretty good one. This was not.

[russdm]

Season 2 Episode 14
The Icarus Factor
Stardate: 42686.4

[Plot]
So the crew stop over at Montgomery Station so that Riker can learn about the Captaincy of a ship from some advisor. Also, Worf has problems, and the ship has some issues.

The special advisor turns out to be Riker's estranged father Kyle. It is made clear that there are seriously bad feelings that exist, and that also Dr. Pulaski was involved at one time with Kyle. Kyle had a difficult time, and abandoned Will age 15.

Worf is not happy with being on the Enterprise, along with some other issues. Wesley investigates and determines that it is the anniversary of a Klingon Ritual for Worf. Having tried to get Data or Geordi to talk to Worf, with Data getting a respectful, "Be Gone!" from Worf, Wesley took it upon himself to look through the Klingon Cultural Database.

The ship's issues are based on some faulty readings, which Data suggested a fix for. This ends up getting used.

Will and Kyle spar heavily over unresolved issues, and then Kyle also briefs Will on the role that the new Captaincy will allow him to take.

Wesley preps the ceremony for Worf, which involves Worf walking through a line of Klingon Warriors with Painsticks. It is an interesting Ceremony. Worf is grateful for having done so.

The Ship's issues are fixed up exactly as Data suggested.

The issue between Will and Kyle are solved through fighting it out in a martial arts engagement. They then promptly settle their differences.

Will naturally doesn't take the offering of the Captaincy on that ship. Earlier though, Worf should up to want to join on, since Worf has been worked up about the Klingon Ceremony and probably missing out on having some battles.

The ship heads out from Montgomery Station.

[Rating]
5 - Excelent episode: Episode excels in most or all ways - major character development, good story and so on
Was originally, but now
2 - Poor episode: Not too bad but has one or two week areas (Poor plot, weak character use, bad effects)
But Upgraded to
4 - Good episode: A few parts of the episode are above average - good plot points, clever use of effects and so on.

{Episode Commentary}
So this episode started out really good and with some interesting plotlines to follow, then simply fall apart at the ending point. Nearly all of it works but some things just ruin it.

1) The first to mention is very thing about the Martial sport that Will and Kyle play. It has them dress up in outfits that are slightly Tron like and be blind-folded with a stick. This sport is called the evolution of Martial Arts, like this is where they will go. Given how incrediably silly it comes across though, I can't believe that for a second that is where Martial Arts will end up. Just bizarre

2) Due to Gene's attitude about how things are in the 24th/23rd centuries, the pathos/emotion of how Will and Kyle should be feeling over their mutual resentments and problems doesn't have any of the weight that it feels like should be there. It just feels a little overall flat and of no real importance to either party. It makes the scenes where the two fight and talk it out, come across as really cheap, with the real emotion in...

3) The whole bit with the Klingon Ceremony with the Painsticks and that it has the emotional impact that the story between Will and Kyle should have had. Watching Worf going through that and seeing his friends and how much it makes them uncomfortable and that they don't like it much, but will for his sake, gives all sorts of strong feels, but that just shows up how little feels that seems to come from seeing Will and Kyle work out their differences. It just doesn't feel like there was any emotional impact.

This can be see as one of the problems with Gene's vision of the future. If all Human Drama was resolved to never happen, that what Drama and Pathos could exist from the characters? What makes actually like Gene's version of Future Humans? This must be the first episode that shows Gene really getting drunk on his own Kool-Aid and how much it undercuts the conflict between Will and Riker. I expected manly tears, deep heart-felt confessions, but got some commentary and an easily resolved conflict that didn't seem to more issue-ing than how like one or the other had gotten some bad item and were trying to exchange it, like one does with unhappy Christmas gifts.

Gene's future humans are products of 80s and a possible future but also, are not exactly relatable any. This is probably the first episode to really show how Gene's rules hurt the series rather than helps it.

Of course, given the billing that Riker has, there was no chance that He was going to leave. That doesn't affect the episode's rating any.

So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

Trackers)
Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
Klingon Rituals/Rites: 1
Poker Playing: 1
Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 2 (No Human Drama Allowed)
Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
Hidden Gems: 4
Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 ()
Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
Prime Directives: 2
Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
Pithy Aesops: 1
Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
Actually Alien Aliens: 1
Lore's Appearances: 1
*Data's Emotions: 3
*Troi Troubles: 1
*Money Matters: 1
Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
2) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:

[Lord Vukodlak]

I don’t believe the ‘sport’ martial art of this episode would be mentioned again for over 30 years.

[DigoDragon]

2) Due to Gene's attitude about how things are in the 24th/23rd centuries, the pathos/emotion of how Will and Kyle should be feeling over their mutual resentments and problems doesn't have any of the weight that it feels like should be there.

Don't worry, things get better after Gene dies.

I think the Klingon ceremony was the best thing of this episode. It is weird and uncomfortable, but I guess that's kind of the point here. Aliens got strange cultures and it makes sense to them if not us. Good job to Wesley on that.

[tomandtish]

Counting cards isn't cheating in poker, it's playing Poker properly. You aren't playing against the house, you're playing against the other players at the table. Figuring out which cards have and haven't been seen and thereby what other players might have is one of the key skills of poker that all players are expected to be doing. Also in poker the deck is shuffled between hands so card counting isn't a long term thing it's an immediate in the moment thing.

It's considered cheating in blackjack because you can use it to get an edge over the house. Because the deck isn't shuffled between hands (hands are shorter and shuffling between hands slowed the game down unacceptably, so they use six decks shuffled together to make it harder to keep count) you can determine whether the pool of cards in the shoe are favourable to the house or player based on the rules the dealer has to use. (If there are more high cards in the shoe the player has the advantage, if there are more low cards the dealer has the advantage).

Memory isn't actually too much of a thing in card countin. You don't really need to memorise which cards have been seen, just assign each card a positive or negative score based on its value to the house or player and keep a basic arithmetical count and you'll know which way the shoe is biased at any given time and how much, play conservatively until the shoe is biased to players then start betting. The trick is that you're playing at a table of 5-6 players plus the dealer and you have to clock every card dealt to all of them and do it all in your head without making it obvious that you're doing it. Which Data could easily do, of course.

Regarding cheating, actually it isn't in Blackjack either. Both New Jersey and Nevada Supreme Courts ruled that you can't treat a card counter as a cheater (casinos don't have to pay a cheater). You CAN ban them from playing the game since casinos have that right, but you have to pay them any winnings they have accrued so far.

[hamishspence]

Regarding cheating, actually it isn't in Blackjack either. Both New Jersey and Nevada Supreme Courts ruled that you can't treat a card counter as a cheater (casinos don't have to pay a cheater). You CAN ban them from playing the game since casinos have that right, but you have to pay them any winnings they have accrued so far.

I said something along those lines too:

The general principle with counting cards (in your head) is that it's not illegal, but it's still something you can normally get banned from a casino for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

Counting cards with an electronic device, however, tends to be criminal.

So (assuming they can't detect Data's positronic brain) if they looked at Data's behaviour and concluded "He's card-counting", the casino could ban him and yet not accuse him of cheating.

[russdm]

Don't worry, things get better after Gene dies.

Be careful, that can be fighting words. Some fans view everything post Gene as not being Star trek.

But to be honest, this point that you say happens to be the most tragic thing in my opinion. That Gene became so obsessed with his vision of Star Trek based on what happened to him in the background of the movies that he took control of TNG and he made it lose the humanistic aspects that had been in the original series.

The tragedy of how seasons of TNG after he basically lost control were some of the best while much of what he made with the control over it was to be turning out to not the best.

But then that happened and it is something that we can't forget. Because it is a tragedy of what is going on.

[Trafalgar]

I think the Klingon ceremony was the best thing of this episode. It is weird and uncomfortable, but I guess that's kind of the point here. Aliens got strange cultures and it makes sense to them if not us. Good job to Wesley on that.

I like it when alien races or cultures feel alien. I dislike it when they feel like humans with added nose ridges. This is my complaint about the way many races are played in D&D.

[Bohandas]

The general principle with counting cards (in your head) is that it's not illegal, but it's still something you can normally get banned from a casino for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

Counting cards with an electronic device, however, tends to be criminal.

So (assuming they can't detect Data's positronic brain) if they looked at Data's behaviour and concluded "He's card-counting", the casino could ban him and yet not accuse him of cheating.

Data is positronic, not electronic, anyway

[DigoDragon]

Be careful, that can be fighting words. Some fans view everything post Gene as not being Star trek.

But to be honest, this point that you say happens to be the most tragic thing in my opinion. That Gene became so obsessed with his vision of Star Trek based on what happened to him in the background of the movies that he took control of TNG and he made it lose the humanistic aspects that had been in the original series.

Oh I'm very aware how my stance can get me into a fight. But I am certain that by this point in time we're discussing, Trek outgrew any one person into something much greater. And I agree about the tragic part of your statement.

I like it when alien races or cultures feel alien. I dislike it when they feel like humans with added nose ridges. This is my complaint about the way many races are played in D&D.

I've always liked animated Trek shows for having much more freedom to make aliens look alien. Acting alien... well, that needs good writing I suppose.

[Trafalgar]

I've always liked animated Trek shows for having much more freedom to make aliens look alien. Acting alien... well, that needs good writing I suppose.

Don't forget the Horta from TOS. A Silicon based life form that dissolves rock is about as Alien as you can get.

[Bohandas]

Don't forget the Horta from TOS. A Silicon based life form that dissolves rock is about as Alien as you can get.

it's less alien than the silicon lifeform from that one TNG episode

[russdm]

Ah great. This episode...

--------------

Season 2 Episode 15
Pen Pals
Stardate: 42695.3

[Plot]
the crew are investigating a bunch of planets breaking up. Riker says that wesley needs to do an away team. picard likes horses. Data gets some signals suggesting an attempt at communication.

Data discovers some girl and wesley runs the away team which determines that there is dilithium breaking up the planets

The main cast argue over whether they should help the girl that Data heard. after picard hears a direct plea for help, he decides to do so. the crew do something and erase the girl's memory so she won't remember being on the ship

[Rating]
4 - Good episode: A few parts of the episode are above average - good plot points, clever use of effects and so on.
&
1 - Bad episode: Multiple weaknesses (bad acting, bad story, disasterous effects, poor connection to lore)

{Episode Commentary}
so this is episode that started the downward spiral of the insane prime directive that allows for abandoning entire civilizations to die if they don't have warp capability. Where before, the prime directive was about preventing interference in the development of a civilization, this new and improved prime directive lets you play God and pretty much write enough primitive civilizations because some cosmic plan says so.

it gets debated over here but later episodes will just with the prime directive being all holy and all sacred.

Even worse, the debate and general story seem to indicate that the Enterprise would have just done nothing had Data not managed to talk with the alien girl. Had that not happened and the crew found out about the girl's people, the crew would have let the girl's people just die out.

That is not a great way of showing the crew being as awesome as possible. Nor does it seem to make any sense with how the Prime directive was created before. I don't understand why the need to change it and why make it so lop-sidedly silly. "no even helping" for primivative, pre-warp societies? Really?

The idea behind this is all just nuts.

The stuff with wesley was all pretty good and worth a good rating. The basic "taking a piss" on the prime directive and making it worse than before in this episode makes the episode pretty bad.

So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

Trackers)
Prime Directive Hell: 1
Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
Klingon Rituals/Rites: 1
Poker Playing: 1
Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 3 (Prime Directive)
Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
Hidden Gems: 4
Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 ()
Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
Prime Directives: 2
Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
Pithy Aesops: 1
Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
Actually Alien Aliens: 1
Lore's Appearances: 1
*Data's Emotions: 3
*Troi Troubles: 1
*Money Matters: 1
Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
2) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:

[Gnoman]

The ossification of the Prime Directive works, if you apply a heavy dose of reading between the lines. We see (in TOS) multiple examples of why the Directive would be created in the first place (the strange Nazi planet, the Gangster planet, the planet with the Khoms and the Yangs), and multiple examples of even limited contact causing serious harm (the proxy war planet, the simulated war planet, the planet run by a computer that Kirk blew up, the other planet run by a computer that Kirk blew up) despite the early Prime Directive being in place.

So you can easily headcanon a direct line of "Well, this proves we need to tighten it up" through "guess we need to tighten it up more" toward "still more" until you wind up with a dogmatic and inflexible Directive that is followed out of inertia and habit rather than reason. Unfortunately, no such thing is ever shown, and there's very little discussion of "maybe this whole thing needs another look". Which is a shame, because it could have been an excellent philosophical argument along the lines of "Measure Of A Man" or the later discussions in DS9.

[russdm]

The ossification of the Prime Directive works, if you apply a heavy dose of reading between the lines. We see (in TOS) multiple examples of why the Directive would be created in the first place (the strange Nazi planet, the Gangster planet, the planet with the Khoms and the Yangs), and multiple examples of even limited contact causing serious harm (the proxy war planet, the simulated war planet, the planet run by a computer that Kirk blew up, the other planet run by a computer that Kirk blew up) despite the early Prime Directive being in place.

So you can easily headcanon a direct line of "Well, this proves we need to tighten it up" through "guess we need to tighten it up more" toward "still more" until you wind up with a dogmatic and inflexible Directive that is followed out of inertia and habit rather than reason. Unfortunately, no such thing is ever shown, and there's very little discussion of "maybe this whole thing needs another look". Which is a shame, because it could have been an excellent philosophical argument along the lines of "Measure Of A Man" or the later discussions in DS9.

I can understand the points you made, but it feels to me that they simply went too far. In the episode, they are talking about the prime directive not letting them interfere at all due to what is a natural disaster and whether or not it is some part of some cosmic plan. Not about saving a civilization from its own actions that could result in its destruction. Because I can understand it making sense in that case. But a natural disaster that could be fixed, without any cultural interference and no way of seeing it be the work of aliens to the civilization being saved, That I don't get.

It happens in a later episode with Worf's adoptive brother, who beams up some people to the ship, because otherwise the entire civilization will die out.

Who made Starfleet the ones to be Judge/Jury/Executioneer of random civilizations that they have barely met? Even worse, it appears the free hand to do nothing exists if the civilization lacks Warp technology. So, basically a pre-warp civilization that faces some natural disaster gets abandoned simply while a civilization with warp technology may get to be rescued? Because they have the technology?

Does nobody in Starfleet see what is wrong about that entire theory? The writers certainly didn't and ran with it off a cliff.

It adds in another version of the "White Man's Burden" because Picard is white, and he gets to decide whether to allow a civvy to live based around some pretty flimsy reasoning. What if he encounters a bunch of primitive black Civvys that are facing natural disasters? Say, "the prime directive says do nothing", and have the viewers not feel in the least bit uneasiness or disturbed by that?

The Prime Directive didn't need to go to stuck an extreme that it did.

[Seppl]

Who made Starfleet the ones to be Judge/Jury/Executioneer of random civilizations that they have barely met?

Wait! The whole point of it is, that they are not Judge/Jury/Executioner. If they did anything, then they become the judge. They could not help everyone, and would have to decide who gets to live. So they let those die, whom they dislike and save everyone who is like themselves? Also, they are responsible for any chain-reaction down the line. Which can be rather big, considering whole civilizations are at stake.

Even worse, it appears the free hand to do nothing exists if the civilization lacks Warp technology. So, basically a pre-warp civilization that faces some natural disaster gets abandoned simply while a civilization with warp technology may get to be rescued? Because they have the technology?

The difference is that these other civilizations would be in diplomatic contact with them, and would be asking for help. Which opens both, the possibility to say no, and the possibility to ask for concessions. The help for the Klingon Empire in Star Trek 6 was very controversial, if it should be done, but in the end doing so brought the Klingon-Federation alliance, which shaped the politics of the quadrant for many decades.

There is a lot wrong with the Prime Directive but I feel you misunderstood the motivations. It's like the classic trolley problem, the Federation says "don't pull the lever", you say "pull the lever". There is no one true ethical answer to that problem.

[Peelee]

Who made Starfleet the ones to be Judge/Jury/Executioneer of random civilizations that they have barely met?

... They're not, though. Ironically, they would be if they did what you are suggesting. Instead, the prime Directive completely removes them from being Judge and Jury, and unless they themselves are causing the calamity, they are not Executioner. Your suggestion would necessitate them being Judge and Jury, deciding whether or not to save some civilizations.

[KillianHawkeye]

To understand the basis of the Prime Directive, you need to be aware of the following points:

1) That alien civilizations rise and fall and eventually die out. It's happened throughout the history of the galaxy and will continue to happen. It will even happen to the Federation eventually. That's just a fact. Trying to change this would essentially be playing God.

2) The early days of human contact with more primitive civilizations saw those cultures severely contaminated or erased by their experience. This is viewed as harmful to their natural evolution, because it ruins their uniqueness.

3) Advancements in culture are assumed to go hand in hand with advances in science. That's been more or less true for most of human history IRL, although there's sometimes a little lag until the culture can adapt to big technological breakthroughs. Therefore, the possession of warp drive is considered the measuring stick for whether a planet is considered "advanced enough" to risk contacting (since they're going to run into people in space soon enough anyway). Earth itself was also first contacted by aliens after developing warp drive, so it's tradition.

Enterprise wasn't the best Star Trek show, but I think it did a pretty good job of showing why a non-interference directive was needed.

[The Glyphstone]

Haven't there been episodes where they skirted the letter of the Directive by intervening covertly to the primitives' benefit? AFAIK its not a violation if, for example, you detect an asteroid inbound to wipe a planet and deflect it off course before they ever know it was there.

[hamishspence]

Haven't there been episodes where they skirted the letter of the Directive by intervening covertly to the primitives' benefit?

Yup. But at least in TNG, there was an element of "the Captain needs to be pushed into it" - Data's contact in Pen Pals, Worf's brother's actions in Homeward, etc. I believe Janeway had several incidents of "only bent the Prime Directive because of her crew members disobeying orders".


It's mostly during the TOS era that the Captains are the ones jumping at the opportunity - Kirk commits to saving the planet in The Paradise Syndrome, and Georgiou is the driving force behind the saving of the aliens in the Discovery season 1 pilot.


Perhaps the TNG/DS9/Voyager era captains tend to interpret it differently?

[russdm]

There is a lot wrong with the Prime Directive but I feel you misunderstood the motivations. It's like the classic trolley problem, the Federation says "don't pull the lever", you say "pull the lever". There is no one true ethical answer to that problem.

I think that the way that the Federation treats the Prime Directive, means that following it should be the only ethical action.

The Prime Directive to me, is what has been shown in the material so far, so from TOS and the movies and TAS. Kirk violated the Prime Directive in a few instances and there were shown reasons.

... They're not, though. Ironically, they would be if they did what you are suggesting. Instead, the prime Directive completely removes them from being Judge and Jury, and unless they themselves are causing the calamity, they are not Executioner. Your suggestion would necessitate them being Judge and Jury, deciding whether or not to save some civilizations.

But that is exactly what every instance of or nearly instance in TNG when the Prime Directive arguments come up, that the crew end up having to decide.

Haven't there been episodes where they skirted the letter of the Directive by intervening covertly to the primitives' benefit? AFAIK its not a violation if, for example, you detect an asteroid inbound to wipe a planet and deflect it off course before they ever know it was there.

Yup. But at least in TNG, there was an element of "the Captain needs to be pushed into it" - Data's contact in Pen Pals, Worf's brother's actions in Homeward, etc. I believe Janeway had several incidents of "only bent the Prime Directive because of her crew members disobeying orders".


It's mostly during the TOS era that the Captains are the ones jumping at the opportunity - Kirk commits to saving the planet in The Paradise Syndrome, and Georgiou is the driving force behind the saving of the aliens in the Discovery season 1 pilot.


Perhaps the TNG/DS9/Voyager era captains tend to interpret it differently?

There was before, how the Prime Directive seemed to work in TOS/TAS and the movies and up to the recent episode. Which is all fine.

This episode starts to move the Prime Directive into the direction it goes as being all problematic and heavily debated. It completely went crazy.

Needing the captain to get pushed into doing things because people broke rules makes things questionable.

The whole matter is debated by the crew(main cast) in this episode. It gets treated as a law to always follow for later.

I think that the Prime Directive is simply one of those heavily debated things in the fanbase.

[DigoDragon]

Haven't there been episodes where they skirted the letter of the Directive by intervening covertly to the primitives' benefit? AFAIK its not a violation if, for example, you detect an asteroid inbound to wipe a planet and deflect it off course before they ever know it was there.

I think there were times the Federation was actively spying on civs, sometimes with disguised agents. Though I seem to remember that in one of those cases it was because the civ was on the cusp of discovering FTL travel.

It was quite convenient to have so many humanoid-shaped alien species around, hee hee.

[Tvtyrant]

I think there were times the Federation was actively spying on civs, sometimes with disguised agents. Though I seem to remember that in one of those cases it was because the civ was on the cusp of discovering FTL travel.

It was quite convenient to have so many humanoid-shaped alien species around, hee hee.

Spoiler

Show

Yeah but in setting life was seeded from a humanoid space alien, so we look like them not the other way around.

[Peelee]

I think there were times the Federation was actively spying on civs, sometimes with disguised agents. Though I seem to remember that in one of those cases it was because the civ was on the cusp of discovering FTL travel.

It was quite convenient to have so many humanoid-shaped alien species around, hee hee.

Yeah, there was that one episode with Riker that would have been really good if not for the rape that got tossed into the middle of it.

[russdm]

Season 2 Episode 16
Q Who
Stardate: 42761.3

[Plot]
Picard gets hot cocoa splashed on him after meeting Geordi's new worker, Sonya Gomez. Picard is not thrilled, Q shows up to chat, Picard is even more less thrilled.

Q wants to join Picard, who doesn't buy that. Guinan has some moments with Q. Q decides to teach the crew a lesson and wipe off that smug look when Picard says that they can handle anything.

cue borg things and learning

Picard begs Q for help

Q lets Picard grovel then sends the crew back, having bloodied Picard with 18 dead crewmembers.

[Rating]
well

{Episode Commentary}
this is a big episode because it changes everything. it introduces the galaxy's biggest threat and ends up causing all sorts of issues down the road. the federation makes all kinds of plans. a federation captain commits high treason. a federation captain becomes an unwilling servant. a friend tortures a friend. another federation officer turns into a demigod

the impact of this episode is felt through all follow up seasons and series.

the antagonist in this episode will go through changes and villain decay, with decay being because they are way too powerful to use any. they will leave a lasting impression

So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

note: i am not adding any new to trackers. this episode did not happen, we were not here.

Trackers)
Prime Directive Hell: 1
Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
Klingon Rituals/Rites: 1
Poker Playing: 1
Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 3 (Prime Directive)
Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
Hidden Gems: 4
Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 ()
Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
Prime Directives: 2
Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
Pithy Aesops: 1
Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
Actually Alien Aliens: 1
Lore's Appearances: 1
*Data's Emotions: 3
*Troi Troubles: 1
*Money Matters: 1
Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
2) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:

[Peelee]

this is a big episode because it changes everything. it introduces the galaxy's biggest threat

Objection: The Kazon were not introduced until Voyager.

[DigoDragon]

This is the episode where Q hints that Guinan is more than just a bartender, right? I don't recall that thread ever going anywhere, at least not until Generations where they hint some more.

It was a pretty good episode in my opinion, although I agree that the Borg really decay quickly in the later seasons. I think the writers wrote themselves into a corner by having the Borg this strong out the gate.