New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

[Seppl]

The implication is that the use of cryogenic sleep for some ships during the last Federation/Klingon War was normal:

Spoiler

Show

K'EHLEYR: Two days ago, Starbase Three Three Six received an automated transmission from a Klingon ship, the T'Ong. That ship was sent out over seventy five years ago.
RIKER: When the Federation and the Klingon Empire were still at war.
K'EHLEYR: The message was directed to the Klingon High Command. It said only that the ship was returning home and was about to reach its awakening point.
PICARD: Which suggests that the crew had been in cryogenic sleep for that long journey.
K'EHLEYR: Exactly.
RIKER: And when this crew is revived?
K'EHLEYR: We'll have a ship full of Klingons who think the war is still going on.
PICARD: So our task is to find the ship, and tell the Klingons they're no longer at war.

That explanation always felt so off, because it does not explain anything. They were probably not sent as soldiers to strike a specific Federation outpost 75 years in the future, that does not make sense. They are not on a long term science/exploration mission because a) Klingons, b) why send a warship?, and c) what kind of mission is that? The best explanation I can come up with is that they are a dead man's switch, to take revenge on the Federation in case the Klingon Empire got defeated. But what can they expect one ship with conventional weapons to do? And why do they not stop and check first, how the Klingon Empire is currently doing?


Still a good episode, but that plot hook never made sense to me.

[DigoDragon]

And why do they not stop and check first, how the Klingon Empire is currently doing?

Yeah, you have several good points. I would find it much more agreeable if it was a crippled ship thought to have been lost and the crew went into cryo sleep hoping to get rescued (there's honor in death through combat, but maybe not so much in death through starvation).

[Aedilred]

That explanation always felt so off, because it does not explain anything. They were probably not sent as soldiers to strike a specific Federation outpost 75 years in the future, that does not make sense. They are not on a long term science/exploration mission because a) Klingons, b) why send a warship?, and c) what kind of mission is that? The best explanation I can come up with is that they are a dead man's switch, to take revenge on the Federation in case the Klingon Empire got defeated. But what can they expect one ship with conventional weapons to do? And why do they not stop and check first, how the Klingon Empire is currently doing?


Still a good episode, but that plot hook never made sense to me.

This might be something that's a product of its era. Two years later, they'd make The Undiscovered Country, which is basically about the end of the Cold War, and while a lot happened between summer 1989 and winter 1991, the idea that this long period of cold war might be coming to an end was probably already on the mind. The Klingons in The Emissary represent largely the same thing that Shinzon does in Nemesis - as Darren Franich puts it, the Cold War superweapon unfrozen into peacetime - something which turned up a few times in the thriller genre during the 1990s. There are also, of course, echoes of the Japanese holdouts in this, too, and while there weren't any confirmed instances of them during the 80s they were much more in currency than they are now.

So I would be inclined to read it as allegory, with the cryosleep an admittedly slightly clumsy attempt to give it a sci-fi gloss: how else to explain why they've been out of contact for so long without invoking time travel (as in Trek 09)?

Particularly if we take the "Japanese holdout" approach, some of the questions can be answered by inference by looking at those. Maybe they're not the only crew out there: the Klingons (or a faction of them) set up a number of sleepers for the same purpose. Maybe the others were destroyed in the interim, or only appear off-screen. Perhaps it was a covert op by someone like Chang, which was supposed to have more follow-through but in fact they only sent out one ship before the programme was cancelled for whatever reason. Maybe the idea was that they did have a specific mission which makes sense, but was more effort to come up with than would have been worthwhile given its script importance. Maybe there was a misconstruction of orders somewhere along the line. And on a mission like this, they consider their orders to be clear and don't need to seek clarification: indeed, to do so would just be providing an opportunity for those Federation devils to deceive them. Some of the Japanese holdouts were notoriously difficult to convince to surrender, and required direct orders from a commanding officer they recognised before they would stand down. I can imagine these Klingons being the same.

[Seppl]

Maybe there was a misconstruction of orders somewhere along the line.

Sending a warship on a 75 year trip due to clerical error. Yes, I can accept that.

[Kantaki]

Sending a warship on a 75 year trip due to clerical error. Yes, I can accept that.

Sounds believable, if a bit extreme, yeah.
Doubly so since klingons are warriors not mathriors.
They do violence, not numbers.

[Velaryon]

K'Ehleyr represents one of the great missed opportunities of this show. She has excellent scenes with Worf during both episodes she appears in, but introduces plot complications that the writers were either unwilling or unable to deal with properly. They've established the Enterprise-D as a ship on which families reside. One of the bridge officers is the teenage son of the ship's chief medical officer!

Worf sending Alexander to be raised by his grandparents is a contrivance for the show's convenience because they didn't want to add a child to the main cast, but it does a disservice to Worf's character in the process and throws away lots of potential drama. It might have been a better idea for them not to kill off K'Ehleyr but have her harmed in some other way that would provoke the same reaction from Worf. That would allow him to let Alexander go with her, while also leaving open the door for more appearances from her.

It's a shame they fridged her, the butterfly effect from it really messed up some things that could have been great.

[Ionathus]

Worf sending Alexander to be raised by his grandparents is a contrivance for the show's convenience because they didn't want to add a child to the main cast, but it does a disservice to Worf's character in the process and throws away lots of potential drama.

I have good (bad?) news about Alexander's long-term living situation...

I didn't watch it when it was coming out, but had Wesley already been catching flak as a Marty Stu kid-interest character? Or is that just everyone's reaction with the benefit of hindsight? If audiences at the time were already making noise about that character, it would make sense that they didn't want another even more immature and grating child to join the "main" cast.

[tomandtish]

This is from page 1, so I apologise, but I have just started DS9 and there's a point where someone (Mrs O'Brien?) comments on how it's not safe for a child to be given the same freedom on a space station that they have on a starship. Having just watched most of the (TOS/TNG) movies, where the starships are, if not primarily, then at least substantially, warships, while Deep Space 9 is, as per the series pilot, an apparently unarmed civilian/administrative entity not expected to be subject to attack, that struck me as rather odd.

So the quoted post resonated rather.

I suppose the point was supposed to be that there's more trouble for kids to get into on a space station: on a starship, everyone is a member of Starfleet and therefore nominally trustworthy, whereas on a space station there are criminal elements and shady characters. But even so, should the kids be on starships at all? Is there anything more dangerous on a space station than there is in a regular city?

It's also important to note that DS-9 is probably a bit outside the norm. It's run by the Federation but is Bajoran territory, and is in a section of space where's there's still a lot of tension and indeed an expectation that there will probably be military issues with the Cardassians.

Not counting visitors (usually as part of an episode plot) there were only a handful of children on the show, with Jake, Nog, and (later) Ziyal* the only regulars.

*Not sure Ziyal's age is ever stated, but I assume she's about 15-16 by human standards when Dukat and Kira find her.

And yeah, I can agree with the argument that kids probably shouldn't be on ships at all (or at least the Enterprise). Given how many times the ship is in serious trouble it really isn't a safe place.

[Aedilred]

I didn't watch it when it was coming out, but had Wesley already been catching flak as a Marty Stu kid-interest character? Or is that just everyone's reaction with the benefit of hindsight? If audiences at the time were already making noise about that character, it would make sense that they didn't want another even more immature and grating child to join the "main" cast.

Given it was pre-internet, it's hard now to get one's head around how hatred from the fandom would be meaningfully expressed (fanzines?). Conventions, I guess. But in any case the contemporary perception was that Wesley was hated, yes, to the extent that when Wil Wheaton left the show, the fan-hate was widely considered to be a factor (although he's subsequently said that it was more that the producers didn't let him take on other roles while he was on TNG, so he had to leave for his career).

Wheaton has subsequently said though that while the negative reaction was hurtful, the character did get a positive reaction from some fans, particularly younger ones: as usual, it might have been the angrier party that was louder.

[russdm]

Season 2 Episode 21
Peak Performance
Stardate: 42923.4

[Plot]
the crew pick up a guy and get a starship to do some wargames. Riker will command the starship and he gets to pick some crew to use. Data is encouraged by dr. pulaski to compete with the guy in a game. data loses. he has problems. later data tries again and gets a stalemate.

wargames happen and Ferengi show up. they get dealt with.

[Rating]
3 - Average episode: OK to watch, but nothing amazing. This should be the default score.

{Episode Commentary}
the only really interesting part of this episode is the stuff with data. the rest is pretty fine in general. nothing outstanding really

So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

Trackers)
Prime Directive Hell: 1
Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
Klingon Rituals/Rites: 1
Poker Playing: 2
Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 3 (Prime Directive)
Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
Hidden Gems: 5
Funny Guest Star Appearances: 4 (Suzie Plakson)
Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
Prime Directives: 2
Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
Riker Romances Something/Someone: 2
Pithy Aesops: 1
Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
Actually Alien Aliens: 1
Lore's Appearances: 1
*Data's Emotions: 3
*Troi Troubles: 1
*Money Matters: 1
Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
2) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:

[DigoDragon]

Data losing the first time was interesting; he strives to be more human and yet couldn't deal with the imperfection of losing at something he should be good at. Achilles was an apt comparison.

This is probably one of the better interactions Data has with Dr. Polaski.

[Manga Shoggoth]

This is probably one of the better interactions Data has with Dr. Polaski.

The interesting part was that the usual Data/Polaski exchange was "You're a machine"/"I'm not" (I'm summarising slightly), yet their scene here was the exact opposite - Polaski treated Data as a person, and Data treated himself as a machine.

[Ionathus]

This was the episode with the Picard quote

Spoiler: quote

Show

It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness. That is life.

?

One of my favorites in the series, and a fantastic character moment for Picard.

[hamishspence]

The interesting part was that the usual Data/Polaski exchange was "You're a machine"/"I'm not" (I'm summarising slightly), yet their scene here was the exact opposite - Polaski treated Data as a person, and Data treated himself as a machine.

I like to think that Pulaski has undergone enough Character Development throughout the season that this is why she treats him more like a person than he himself does.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I like to think that Pulaski has undergone enough Character Development throughout the season that this is why she treats him more like a person than he himself does.

Oh indeed. I think it is pretty much the first time she talks to Data as a person.

[Peelee]

This was the episode with the Picard quote

Spoiler: quote

Show

It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness. That is life.

?

One of my favorites in the series, and a fantastic character moment for Picard.

Seconded. Fantastic line.

[russdm]

I like to think that Pulaski has undergone enough Character Development throughout the season that this is why she treats him more like a person than he himself does.

Oh indeed. I think it is pretty much the first time she talks to Data as a person.

The interesting part was that the usual Data/Polaski exchange was "You're a machine"/"I'm not" (I'm summarising slightly), yet their scene here was the exact opposite - Polaski treated Data as a person, and Data treated himself as a machine.

Data losing the first time was interesting; he strives to be more human and yet couldn't deal with the imperfection of losing at something he should be good at. Achilles was an apt comparison.

This is probably one of the better interactions Data has with Dr. Polaski.

It is such a shame that there is only episode left in this season. So, we don't anything further. (Since the last episode is some kind of weird clip show, maybe?...I don't know, I don't remember from watching before)

[Gnoman]

The show ran out of money and the studio wouldn't give them more. So they had to do the final episode of the season on a very limited budget.

[Manga Shoggoth]

It is such a shame that there is only episode left in this season. So, we don't anything further. (Since the last episode is some kind of weird clip show, maybe?...I don't know, I don't remember from watching before)

Oh yes. Shades of Grey. You know, I wouldn't judge you if you skipped this one. It's not like we haven't seen most of it already...

I mean, it's possible to do a clip show well (the mid-season one in Nadesico, for example), but it is so rare that I am hard pressed to think of another example.

[Peelee]

Oh yes. Shades of Grey. You know, I wouldn't judge you if you skipped this one. It's not like we haven't seen most of it already...

I mean, it's possible to do a clip show well (the mid-season one in Nadesico, for example), but it is so rare that I am hard pressed to think of another example.

Clerks: The Animated Series.

[KillianHawkeye]

I know we're on the next episode already, but I wanted to say that I really like how Worf's take on the Klingon culture is shown to be based on him growing up apart from other Klingons. It results in having an idealized view of how to be a Klingon that's based more on stories and legends he heard as a child rather than any actual life experience living as a Klingon.

Worf over-does "being a Klingon" so much that he becomes a paragon of Klingons, the uber-Klingon. And he gets frustrated when actual Klingons don't live up to his high ideals. Worf feels like he constantly has to prove that he's as much of a Klingon as other Klingons that he ends up being the most Klingon of Klingons ever.

And I've now typed the word Klingon so many times that it's starting to feel like it's not a word anymore. I am trapped in a chamber of echoing Klingons.

[Ionathus]

Legend of Korra had an okay clip show episode (as okay as they ever can be) in its final season -- because they still had enough money to pay the VAs to do voiceover, even if animation wasn't possible. Plus the episode poked fun at itself as a recap episode and gave Varrick lots of fun, goofy commentary on the show's early awkwardness...and, best of all, they took potshots at Unalaq and turned him into a total loser of a villain, which he was.

Seconded that I won't judge you if you skip Shades of Grey. It's a waste of an hour, IMO.

[Velaryon]

It is such a shame that there is only episode left in this season. So, we don't anything further. (Since the last episode is some kind of weird clip show, maybe?...I don't know, I don't remember from watching before)

Heck, I've watched it within the last 2 months and I don't remember it either. Obviously a true masterpiece of an episode.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Heck, I've watched it within the last 2 months and I don't remember it either. Obviously a true masterpiece of an episode.

I have the opposite problem - I watched it decades ago (in America, no less), and I can't forget it.

[russdm]

Season 2 Episode 22
Shades of Gray
Stardate: 42976.1

[Plot]
Riker gets infected by a plant. So to cure it, he re-watches all of the previous episodes in clips.

[Rating]
---

{Episode Commentary}
To be honest, this is a bad episode, but then given how apparently the show was out of budget, it is hard to hold it against it. The basic plot is that a plant infects Riker and he needs to be cured. That could have been done using props and just the small basic amount of stuff they could whip up. They picked to go with clips from previous episodes.

They apparently had the budget to film a jungle like or swamp like or marsh like or whatever place they filmed. They could or should have just made this a bottle episode. Have a simple plot, and make good use of all of the props that they had available. Then make it the most barebones. Maybe just Riker and Co working on setting up part of a colony, or doing some kind of simple survey, find there was nothing of interest and who knows.

I guess that I am trying to come up with a more engaging plot that makes me feel interested. Since the whole dangerous plant thing does work, the clipshow solution is just out there. I am not sure what exactly it would accomplish. then again, the budget was apparently gone, and nobody asked the actors or crew to fork up some cash? Or sent anybody off to get the executives to fork over just a little more dough?

They (Executives) just decided to end the season on a whimper of an episode. Given that, I just don't how you would pick it up again. It just feels like so much of a sense of "That's it?", "That's how you close out the season?"

So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

Trackers)
Prime Directive Hell: 1
Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
Klingon Rituals/Rites: 1
Poker Playing: 2
Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 3 ()
Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
Hidden Gems: 5
Funny Guest Star Appearances: 4 ()
Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
Prime Directives: 2
Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
Riker Romances Something/Someone: 2
Pithy Aesops: 1
Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
Actually Alien Aliens: 1
Lore's Appearances: 1
*Data's Emotions: 3
*Troi Troubles: 1
*Money Matters: 1
Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
2) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:

[Peelee]

[QUOTE=russdm;25263802]Riker gets infected by a plant. So to cure it, he re-watches all of the previous episodes in clips. /QUOTE]

Best summation ever.

[Velaryon]

Okay, now I kinda (vaguely) remember this episode. Yeah, definitely forgettable especially for a season ender.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Season 2 Episode 22
Shades of Gray
Stardate: 42976.1
They apparently had the budget to film a jungle like or swamp like or marsh like or whatever place they filmed. They could or should have just made this a bottle episode. Have a simple plot, and make good use of all of the props that they had available. Then make it the most barebones. Maybe just Riker and Co working on setting up part of a colony, or doing some kind of simple survey, find there was nothing of interest and who knows.

This was a bottle episode, just a terribly written one. But with no money, and the writers guild about to go on strike there was no time write something decent. So it was always destined to be terrible not doing it probably would have been the best option.

At least nothing important happens, sometimes a terrible episode puts something of plot relevance in it.

[DigoDragon]

I'm looking it up on Memory Alpha and nope, still don't remember this one. Maybe that's for the best? ^^

I'm under the assumption that they were contractually obligated to make 22 episodes rather than just go with 21 and not make this last one.

Could be more interesting if they did the clip show over a game of poker and they're just relating to things/events that happened with jest.

[Bohandas]

I think the best way to do a clip show in general, and possibly the ONLY good way to do a clip show, is to remix the clips into something completely new after the manner of Kung-Pow: Enter the Fist, What's Up Tiger Lily?, Sealab 2021, and Power Rangers.

EDIT:
Failing that, another thing they could have done would be to have some problem happen that causes one of the characters to look up similar historical incidents, and then just edit two thematically related TOS episodes down to half an hour each