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2021-11-10, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2021
Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
It's especially interesting that the reason given is because they ran out of budget when the very next season, season 3, had a huge outlay attached because they redesigned all the costumes, added some new sets, improved the cameras and otherwise made a bunch of big budget changes between 2 and 3. I wonder where THAT money came from when they ran out from the prior season? I guess it was lockboxed away from season 2's completion.
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2021-11-10, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
The issue was a fixed per-season budget. By the time Season 3 rolled around, that was no longer an issue, and the studio was starting to realize the kind of ratings juggernaut they had on their hands.
That, and they probably figured replacing all the costumes was cheaper than crippling their actors - the suits from the first two seasons were bad.
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2021-11-10, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-11-11, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
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2021-11-20, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Alright. It is time for our end of season review/Summary))
I think that my favorite characters this season has been: Worf and Data and Picard. I love everything about the Klingons and I really like Worf. It pushes and forces the show in new directions when it covers Worf, and it also has to expand on the world building. Plus Klingons are really cool. I like the ships, their uniforms. They just seem like so much fun.
Data has improved in this season and has gotten better. Definitely a breakout character like Worf.
Picard has been heavily humanized through this season. It came really from removing one thing, Dr. Crusher, and I like what we have seen. Picard is moving towards what his personality and aspect will be like for later seasons.
Geordi has improved along with Riker. I think that both are moving into falling/fulfilling their role in the ship and on the show. I think that the move of Geordi really improved things.
Dr. Pulaski seems to me to better in every way to Dr. Crusher. It makes for a more interesting dynamic, and a better job with her relationship with Data, could see/result in some good serious character development for Data. She could fit well into a mentor role along with Picard for him. (Dr. Crusher will end up doing a little of this later on) It is a shame to lose her.
Wesley has gotten some good character development, and I like him. The more he moves away from being the Creator's Pet, the better he gets. He has potential to be a better character, but frankly, I think that his Creator's Pet problems really hurt him and that is what him so disliked and why he was not really given a chance. Had that been significantly lessened, then I think he would have been more well liked and more a fan favorite. The potential of that is simply frankly there, but Gene made some poor decisions with him. That cost the show heavily.
Troi has been doing better, and had one episode where she did her job of ship's counselor. (Emissary, with K - Worf's Lady Friend) There is still some struggle with her though.
As for the season and it's episodes: I really think that there has been some improvement from the first season, but I still don't that it has really "grown the beard" fully. There are still some plain bad or terrible episodes and ones that just are not that great but not bad ones. The quality is improving some as the writers and cast find their places fully.
My favorite episodes were those that focused on Worf/Klingons, or Picard, and also Data's big one. Those episodes are really good, and set up future events that could/would lead to more stories. Things like that, that give more plots to follow up with, are really great.
My main issue here with this season, I am going to say, is the poor handling of Dr. Pulaski, and the slow but misguided development for that character. It marred things a little. I honestly think that it could been done better than it was. Then there is the fact that the show is still struggling to get a handle on the different characters. They lump together in personality and such a little too much. Worf and Data and Picard have all moved aside from the main in developing unique personalities. That is something the series needs more of.
As for how things have gone, I think that season really shows that there is potential for the series to become good. About as good as the Original Series was. It will be time taken to get there, but I think that is something to look forward to.
As for Season 3, we get Dr. Crusher and lose Dr. Pulaski. I honestly am not sure that I am thrilled about that after all. I feel that Dr. Crusher is based too heavily about/around Wesley and also that her interactions with Picard don't show her to be as thoroughly independent as I would like. Then there is how the writers are having trouble to write ways to really make use of her, and that is really Gene's fault, and the fact that apparently the writers couldn't come up with real plots that make use of the part that Dr. Crusher is a Doctor.
We will just have to see if that changes or not.
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2021-11-20, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Glad to see more people turning around on Pulaski, yeah she was an underutilized talent and wellspring of possible character development and conflict.
She actually has an arc over the course of her season. But most people seem to only focus on that one single scene with her and Data.
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2021-11-20, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
I never really liked Wesley. He got off to a bad start, there really wasn't a sensible place for him in the cast, and although he did have a couple of good episodes they never really fixed him properly. He might have been better, but the big problem was that there was no sensible way of fitting him into the story. He didn't work as "child of Beverly Crusher" and he didn't work as "Brevet Ensign", as I saw very little precident for that sort of posting. If they had a few more on the ship it might have worked.
Troi was another character who came across very badly in the start. She started off as a long drink or water, and it took a long time to turn her round, and I don't really think they managed it until quite late.
Agreed - it took a while for the writers and actors to get in gear, but once they did TNG became a decent series.
EDIT:
I never understood the Pulaski hate. I do get the feeling that the arguement was less "she's a bad character" and more "She's picking on Data".Last edited by Manga Shoggoth; 2021-11-20 at 03:21 PM.
Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
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2021-11-20, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
That was actually her issue in the show; TNG was very much designed as a conflict-free crew as much as possible. This was a large part of why they swung the pendulum in the other direction on DS9 and had virtually every character be in conflict with some other character (or several) on the station.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
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2021-11-20, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Bristol
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Coming back to this again because it still kind of nags at me, and I'm now up on my DS9 watch to the later part of season 4. In The Way of the Warrior...
Spoiler: Way of the Warrior spoilersWe first see the Defiant run from a single Klingon cruiser (with, iirc, one Bird of Prey backing it up). Now in context that makes sense, because it's taken hull damage (being forced to lower its shields to beam Cardassian refugees aboard during the battle) and its cloaking device is offline, so standing and fighting wasn't an option.
That leads to a massive Klingon battlefleet pursuing it to DS9: precise numbers are unclear but it's commanded by both Gowron and Martok in person, and is at least a significant portion of the fleet seen earlier in the episode which was estimated to comprise at least 25% of the entire Klingon imperial navy. DS9 is by this point less toothless than it was against the Cardassians back in S1, but it is clearly outmatched, and after an initial engagement dependent on reinforcements.
Those reinforcements come in the shape of six Starfleet ships, even the imminent arrival of which is enough to persuade the Klingons to withdraw. Considering that (a) Starfleet ships are not warships, (b) the Defiant, their one specialised warship, is out of action, and (c) and the Klingons are one of the three biggest military powers in the alpha quadrant, indeed probably the most heavily militarised of the three, and this represents a massive concentration of their forces - the perceived potency of those Starfleet ships beggars belief, with each one being a match for multiple Klingon specialist battle cruisers plus bird-of-prey escorts. Yes, DS9 is still in play, but by the time those ships arrive, it's going to be sufficiently battered that it's not going to contribute much to the fight.
It shouldn't bother me, but it just does, somehow. Especially in the context of the Defiant actually being a specialised warship, there's just kind of a weird disparity there. If it were, say, twenty Starfleet ships en route, I probably wouldn't blink at it, but six... just seems a really low number, in context.GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup
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2021-11-20, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
I happen to own a set of blueprints from Star Trek: The Motion Picture that were part of the promotion for the film. They explicitly state that a K'Tinga-class Battlecruiser (the movie version of the iconic D7) is no match for a refitted Constitution and could only win at three-on-one odds. Starfleet's ships being ludicrously tough has been a franchise staple for a long time.
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2021-11-21, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
I'm assuming the Federation, Klingon Empire, and Romulan Star Empire? Romulans might well give the Klingons a run for their money. Also, whole not nearly as big as the others, the Cardassians Union is supposed to be incredibly heavily militarized and may match the Klingons or Romulans in percent, if not hard numbers.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
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2021-11-21, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Later media has tended to portray them as a bit more dangerous - with Kronos One implied to be comparable to to the Enterprise-A ("We come in peace and you blatantly defile that peace - for this I shall blow you out of the stars"), and Kirk not reacting like he massively outguns it), and Kang's battlecruiser as comparable to the Excelsior, in the Voyager episode Flashback.
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2021-11-21, 01:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
You don't need blueprints to know that--we see right in the movie that V'Ger's bolts destroy those Klingon cruisers near enough instantly, while one later hits the Enterprise and the ship survives, albeit at only 30% shields. And that bolt is dealing damage for a good, what, 20 or 30 seconds?
Last edited by factotum; 2021-11-21 at 01:51 AM.
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2021-12-13, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Hey, people. I will be getting back to this in this week. Have my last days of a class so I have been busy with that. And a slightly different work schedule than before. But things will be changing up and improving.
So be expecting this to be active again. And we are starting up with season 3 as well. See you all laterBlog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)
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2021-12-15, 03:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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2021-12-16, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
As I recall in ST:TMP, Enterprise had its' phasers powered directly by the warp drive. This innovation made the phasers far more powerful than Klingon disrupters or torpedoes at the time. It also made the phasers unusable during the whole "wormhole" incident.
Of course, there was no real consistent canon to Star Trek technology until TNG. This may have been retconned.
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2021-12-17, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Yep, that was a thing. Hence the famous "Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm phooooooooooootoooooooon torrrrrrrrrrrrpeeeeeeeedoooooos" scene, which is one of the very few memorable scenes from the movie.
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2021-12-17, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-12-17, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-12-22, 04:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- By Bellevue, WA
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Season 3 Episode 1
Evolution
Stardate: 43125.8
[Plot]
the ship is at a place to do science with wesley making some smart nanites. dr beverly comes back, thinks that wesley needs to act like a teenager. wes says some things. the science for the science guy which is why the ship is there happens? and science guy talks to wes.
the nanites escape and start eating the ship computer some. the science guy zaps some and gets zapped in return. the crew end up being able to talk to the nanites and things are fixed up.
the science for science guy happens. wesley does some teenage thing
[Rating]
3 - Average episode: OK to watch, but nothing amazing. This should be the default score.
{Episode Commentary}
yeah that was not the best plot summary but nothing really stood out here. the issue with the nanites is meh i guess and the science bit for science guy was pretty meh too. most of this episode is focused on wesley, in trying to humanize him and make him more likable. maybe works, maybe doesn't work.
either way that is the start of our new season
So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on
Trackers)
Prime Directive Hell: 1
Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
Klingon Rituals/Rites: 1
Poker Playing: 2
Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 3 ()
Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
Hidden Gems: 5
Funny Guest Star Appearances: 4 ()
Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
Prime Directives: 2
Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
Riker Romances Something/Someone: 2
Pithy Aesops: 1
Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
Actually Alien Aliens: 1
Lore's Appearances: 1
*Data's Emotions: 3
*Troi Troubles: 1
*Money Matters: 1
Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)
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2021-12-22, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
If I remember correctly, the nanites talk to the crew through Data, right?
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2021-12-22, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Ya know, my wife and I always put something on for background noise while we go to sleep, and various Star Treks are in the group of options. Had this episode on just the other night, and while our eyes were closed, I poked my wife as soon as it came on and said, "hey, that's Dr. Kelso."
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-12-22, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)
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2022-01-08, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Season 3 Episode 2
The Ensigns of Command
Stardate: NA
[Plot]
the crew is having a relaxation time and Data is playing as part of a quartet with miles o'brien and two other people. data mentions to picard and dr crusher that he is pretty bad, there are words.
picard gets called away to deal with a problem relating to the Sheliak, a race of fat vorlons. they look like vorlons who are fat and they have even a close sound of speaking.
picard gets treated disrespectfully by the fat vorlons who cut him off. they want some humans removed and don't like humans even. picard reads the treaty, troubles the fat vorlons and makes them wait on them and cuts them off. he enjoys that. the fat vorlons give him what he wants.
meanwhile
Data goes down to the planet and learns that the humans are from a colony ship that went off course. the colonists adapted to the radiation and have grown to being over 15000 which is more than what the crew can remove using the shuttles since the transporters won't work. the colony leader, Gosheven, lets Data talk and try to convince people. Data meets a lady who is interested in him. he talks with her.
at some point, Gosheven uses a shock probe to deactivate Data. With having tried to talk out the problems, Data decides to use his phaser to demonstrate the threat of the fat vorlons. the other colonists are convinced of the threat. Gosheven is reluctant but goes along with the majority decision. he and Data have words
after everything, picard mentions to Data that Data picked two musicians that have different styles to combine. Data admits that he has been needing to become creative.
[Rating]
4 - Good episode: A few parts of the episode are above average - good plot points, clever use of effects and so on.
{Episode Commentary}
this episode is mainly about fleshing out Data's growth of becoming more human and how he is applying human traits and attributes to himself. that part of the story is great
the part with the colonists is also pretty good. it works for exploring Data
the fat vorlons are not good or great. no explanation is ever given for why if the fat vorlons don't like humans and human languages why they then learned a human language and made a treaty rather than just learning enough to tell the humans to stay away from their space. it would have provided some details why the fat vorlons matter the fat vorlons are also lawyer types
the episode of "Darmok" did a much better job of giving a backstory to the aliens in that episode which helped to give it a strong emotional feeling when Picard is able to make the breakthrough to being able to open communication with them. it gives some good emotion
Picard being able to put the fat vorlons on hold is supposed to have some good feeling to it but I think with the lack of background that makes the whole thing feel more like a phone call with someone who don't like but not important. it just lacks a feel to me. then there is that once it is established that the fat vorlons don't care that the part of the episode is not interesting enough like what is going on with Data. really feels like it was drug out a bit rather than something that we needed to go back to as often as it did
this episode was a better one than the first episode in this season and I think that you could actually have started with this one. the last episode really didn't have enough in it to be the best first episode of the season in my opinion. some of the stuff with wesley was nice and knowing dr crusher is back is good to know but the rest of that episode could have been better
So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on
Trackers)
Prime Directive Hell: 1
Q Messes with the Crew, For Laughs: 1
Doctor Who timey-wimey Destructo Enterprise Disco: 1
Klingon Rituals/Rites: 1
Poker Playing: 2
Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 3 ()
Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
Hidden Gems: 5
Funny Guest Star Appearances: 4 ()
Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips
Prime Directives: 2
Patrick Stewart Speech: 4 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
Riker Romances Something/Someone: 2
Pithy Aesops: 1
Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
Actually Alien Aliens: 1
Lore's Appearances: 1
*Data's Emotions: 3
*Troi Troubles: 1
*Money Matters: 1
Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)
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2022-01-08, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
The Sheliak always came off as really really lawful to me.
They have an accord with the Federation and they want it followed to the letter.
They also want to settle that world as soon as possible. The Federation can remove their squatters now or breach the accord and the Sheliak remove them. Violently.
So Picard* gives them a choice: they give him enough time to follow his obligation and evacuate the settlers or he picks the species that has collective naptime for the next few months to mediate things. (Whichalso gives the Enterprise enough time to evacuate.)
*Who really should've looked at the paperwork before trying to negotiate. No wonder those aliens were annoyed."If it lives it can be killed.
If it is dead it can be eaten."
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2022-01-09, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Only thing I didn't like about that resolution was the idea of a species that all go into some sort of hibernation at the same time. How does that work? Do they only live in one hemisphere of their planet and literally have no off-world colonies at all? What do any ships they have travelling at the time of the hibernation do? Just park up where they are for several months?
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2022-01-09, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.
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2022-01-10, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
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2022-01-10, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
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2022-01-10, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation
Just because they’re warp capable doesn’t mean they make frequent use of it or have off world colonies.
And even if they have such things they may not have the authority to act as mediators. Furthermore we’re assuming this is “seasonal” in relative earth terms and not once every five years or something.Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.