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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    (I will be making episode comments in () during the watch. And then will be making comments after the show finishes as well)

    Season One, Episode 1
    Encounter at Farpoint

    Stardate: 41153.7

    Plot:

    We start out with the Intro for each and every episode, the shots of the Enterprise D flying through space after Picard gives his line, "Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its continuing mission -- to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before."

    Cue, the ship flying. (This is probably the best intro of the franchise. The visuals, the music which is similiar to the Enterprise theme from the TOS movies. Just daaa....)

    We finish the Intro and pan towards the ship and a window, in which is standing our captain. Picard is doing his captain's log. Explaining what is going to be happening. Picard says that they are going to Deneb IV, beyond which lies the great unexplored mass of the galaxy. We get a close up of Picard's face here. (Picard is wearing a red uniform)

    We continue with Picard doing a voice over of his Captain's Log, as he goes through the ship. Picard has orders to explore/examine Farpoint Station. He takes us through a tour of the ship, as he takes a stroll. So, Farpoint was a starbase built by the inhabitants of the world. His new command is a Galaxy Class USS Enterprise.

    It's the BRIDGE!!! and Worf. (The Set looks pretty good, even if it is a tad bit too large) Worf. (So Worf is wearing a golden Baldric on his uniform. Worf is also wearing a red uniform)

    It's Yar! (She is the blonde standing at the top curvy wood part. I am not shy or unashamed to say that Denise Crosby looks good in that uniform. Yar is wearing a gold uniform)

    It's the back of Troi's head! (Hi Troi. Also, Troi is wearing a blue uniform with a skirt. Troi also looks good in that uniform)

    It's Data, at the station. (OPs? I don't know which station it is yet. Data is wearing a gold uniform)

    It's Geordi at the other station. (I don't know which station is which. If I was going by the TOS, I would say, but actually I can't remember which of the two sides was the helm and which was the other thingie that the not-helm side did. Also, Geordi is wearing a gold uniform)

    So, that was not Geordi at the station next to Data, it is some other guy (The establishing shots earlier show the guy sitting the seat as having dark skin, but the guy in the close up doesn't have the same dark color. I think that this is supposed to be the Torres character) Also, the first officer is not present and will be picked up at Farpoint. The first officer is named William Riker and he is a commander

    There is some discussion about the crew's orders. Picard is to negotiate about using the base. Also, Data makes an 'Inquiry' (Which reminds of how HK-47 from the Knights of the Old Republic Games talks) about the word "Snoop".

    So, Data has been programmed with a virtual encyclopedia of information and does not know "snoop". ( So we are learning about Data here, some of his abilities) Also, Data is programmed to emulate human behavior and "snoop" is not among that which he was programmed for.

    Data is a theasaurus here.

    Troi senses something. (Yeah, this starts now...)

    Red Alert! The viewscreen fills with mesh outside that is a bunch of little...thingies...all put together (To be honest, there is space such that the mesh looks like a chain link fence, and I see spaces that the Enterprise D could have flown through to leave) (also detector circuit) (so it's a powerful force field that they shouldn't run into)

    Picard orders going to Yellow Alert, "Shut off that damn noise", and Worf says that "Shields and deflectors up, sir". (Does this mean that the Shields are separate thingie from the deflectors?)

    It's Q!!!!!!!!! (Q arrives, dressed up in a weird outfit that I don't recognize. He has on a breastplate, like something worn by cavalry, and a high middle ages (from about 1400s to 1700s) outfit with it. Stylish boots, and stylish hat)

    Q tells them, using "Thou", "Thy", "Thee", to go home, that they (Humans) have gone out into the galaxy far enough. Q introduces himself and we-self, the Q. The turbolift opens up with two security people, Q makes a mesh thingie appear in the doorway, so they can't come onto the bridge. Q calls himself/itself/we-self a fellow captain.

    Torres pulls out a thing (A small phaser), Q turns to look at Torres (Q is currently just doing glances to use powers) and queues the freezing (To be honest, it looks more like Q sprayed some dry ice or fire extinguisher. also, the frozen bits on Torres looks like styrofoam or styrofoamy. It doesn't look good visually here. it looks to me like they coated him in frosting or some kind of sticky flour. The mesh looks realish)

    Troi "He's frozen" (I don't know if the effect would have been understood or not) Picard removes the phaser from Torres. It or Torres was harmless. (that is a tiny phaser, looks really fragile but palm-sized)

    Q threatens them. cue ominous music and ominous looking close-ups

    Supplementary (sheesh) (also, how exactly is Picard doing this log with Q just standing right there?)

    Q speaks some, then takes the form of a US Marine (based on Colonel oliver north, according to Tvtropes and memory alpha) Q mentions patriotism while using this form. Commies. Picard says it has been centuries since that (actually in 1987, I think that the Soviet Union is still around, along with the people's republic of china)

    Q and Picard debate (i think that the 400 years and 400 years it is in error because if this takes place in 2374, that would make 400 years ago as 1974 and 400 years ago from that it is 1574. I don't thinl that fully is the timeframe of the tribal gods thing that Q says)

    Q makes another costume change. the drug soldier one. We learn that Torres is fine, Q makes Snide Comments, Worf asks if he clean up the bridge. Q is strutting around here. Yar steps up to comment some. (Hey! when did the two security guards in the turbolift have a chance to come inside?)

    Picard brings up all about Superior beings (References to the ones that showed up in TOS/TAS, and that criticized humans over things) Picard mentions about prosecute and judge. Q likes the idea and promises to return and employ that later. Q also leaves.

    Worf suggests fighting. Yar agrees. Picard consults the magic eight ball err...Troi. Picard consults Troi, who mentions about minds. Troi makes a recommendation. Picard decides to go silent and see what his ship can do. (also, maximum acceleration?) They are going to detach the saucer.

    Shots of activity after Picard gives his statements (why is there a blue uniform vulcan guy in the engine room?) The ship takes off, the mesh turns into a glowy ball. Attempts to escape. Picard asks Troi about the alien being / Q. Troi tries to give an answer (It is basically that she doesn't know, but with words like very advanced and not what we could have considered a lifeform. I think Troi could have said that she doesn't know what it is but it seemed to be those)

    More attempt stuff. The glowy ball is moving really fast, the ship is moving fast, but the glowy ball is catching up to the ship. Picard will arm aft photon torpordoes. (not sure what he hopes to accomplish with this, but okay) Lots of worry about redlining the ship's engines.

    They won't be able to escape. Picard decides to separate the saucer. He puts Worf in command, who protests that as a Klingon he cannot allow his captain to go into command while he runs away. Picard reminds that he is a Starfleet Officer. So they will separate the ship. That means that all the families and a bunch of the crew will go in the saucer part, while the stardrive part with the main weapons and everything will do some fighting or whatever. Also, Picard, Yar, Troi, and Data all go the battle bridge. (Not sure exactly if that sounds like the right picks but whatevehs)

    It's Miles! (Miles shows up to take one of station places, on the battle bridge. He is wearing a red uniform. I couldn't tell if or what his rank badge is here. I will listen to hear if it is said out loud by someone) (also, the scenes of people walking through the ship for the separation part, I could have sworn that they were going through main engineering or something. Maybe a different area, the guy that was in main engineering, the black guy in the yellow that Worf was talking with when Worf went down to tell the engine room Picard's orders, was the one that was motioning where people should be going) ((This guy is one of the background actors or stunt actors I think))

    Miles has one pin, (From I could see in the shot of him, so I think that was clear. So Miles is an Ensign in this scene on the battle bridge) Picard's plan involves shooting things. Bunch of scenes of things shooting. Then separating the ships. the ships separate, the stardrive part stops to wait for the glowy ball to catch up

    The Trial part. So this is a mockup of the mid-21st century, the post atomic horror. Also, it's Shang Tsung (The Bailiff guy with the staff is Cary H??? ((Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, also played the android/alien in Space Rangers which was Linda Hunt's TV Show that I mentioned in an above post that I had seen some of)) who later plays as Shang Tsung in the Mortal Combat/Kombat live action movie) Courtroom drama (I don't get the look of the soldier guys really. They take drugs and have a machine gun type thing strapped to their right forearm. They just appear so bizarre)

    Q appears in his judge's outfit. He rides around a little platform with two lion/cat statues on it. The 4 (Picard, Data, Troi, Yar) get accused of stuff. Yar beats up a soldier, who gets shot and dragged away. Data mentions the New United Stations, Q clarifies that the court happens in 2079 (Which according to later established timelines means the vulcans are hanging out/involved with earth, so who knows) and then Yar gives a speech, she gets the frozen treatment like Torres. Picard has an argument with Q, Q unfreezes Yar. Data shows off his voice mimicking skills.

    Picard makes some argument, that argues that while humans have been savage, that they should be tested on how humans currently are. Q likes that idea and will use the Farpoint mission as that test. the courtroom drama ends, and the 4 are back on the ship thing. Picard speaks with Miles, who is sitting at the Conn station.

    It's Riker, and he has a personal log. He has been chilling out after being dropped off by the starship Hood. He goes to visit the leader of the aliens that built Farpoint station, and talks about he would like to learn more and how he likes everything that he has seen. the leader offers him an earth delicacy which is some fruit (I wouldn't call a basket of fruit a delicacy honestly)

    Riker asks about an apple, a bowl of red apples appears, this catches attention. later in a bit, the leader guy is unhappy that that happened, and he complains that it occurred. To something and promises of punishment.

    Riker meets up with Dr. Crusher and Wesley. They wander through a mall/market. Riker wants to explore the weirdness of the station but Dr. Crusher thinks it because Riker just wants to show off. Wesley mentions that it is just because Riker is a man that Dr. Crusher doesn't know. (A bit silly here in some form I guess, given the later thing with the candle and the ghost and all...) Crusher sees a red thing that she comments would look nice with Gold and pop, the cloth suddenly has that. She orders the whole thing/bolt. From the guy with the weird hat/headdress that is not saying anything. Riker comments on the change

    The others wander off after some talking about the captain.

    It's Geordi! with a thing across his face. It's a weird looking thing. (It's Geordi's visor, VISOR. He says with it because he was born blind?? I think it was said. He is named Geordi La Forge) He is a Lieutant but has a gold pip and a ring pip part. (Is that lieuetant junior grade then? it is the same marking for both Yar and Worf. Data has two gold pips and one ring, so Lt Comander then? Miles has one gold pip it looks like. Also Riker has 3 gold pips and Picard has 4 gold pips) Geordi is a bit uptight here. He tells Riker that the ship has arrived and that Riker should go up to the ship. (we get a shot of the saucer-less Enterprise D. I think that it look a lot better looking, more sleek looking than the ship with the saucer)

    Picard welcomes Riker coldly and gets Riker up to speed. The two talk some and Picard asks some questions. Picard read a report or something on his little desktop thingie/brick. He speaks a bit, then the Saucer arrives and Riker does a manual docking (Which is a bit fast and harsh from Picard, also, it will be a while for the next type of this thing -- removing the saucer section -- happens in the show) Riker is successful with it naturally. Before this, Riker watched a show/thing that was the whole section with Q part.

    (Wow, that visual goof. So there is a shot of the saucer getting closer in the viewscreen, and then it cuts away for some talking, a line of dialogue, some glances, and then cuts back to the viewscreen, for the next bit of film that it was showing before. Check it on Netflix at the mark with 50 mins and 55/54 seconds left and then again at 50 minutes and 48/47 seconds left)

    So, we have some discussion between Picard and Riker. That goes on for a bit, and then we learn about Geordi and how he was blind from birth, and how his visor works (It apparently works in a weird way, with infrared, Em Spectrum, a few others; it doesn't all him to "see" "Normally" any, which is weird choice to me) We get some detail about how Geordi's visor apparently gives him pain in some way and that he can't do anything about it.

    Data is escorting Admiral McCoy around, finishing up his tour. McCoy thinks that Data is a vulcan originally. (This is a fine little bit of comedy) McCoy approves of the ship and notes that taking good care of it will be great. The Hood picks up the admiral and then heads out to somewhere.

    Q pops in to remind Picard that Q has not left any. Q informs Picard and the others that there is only 24 hours available. Worf also tried to shoot Q but is stopped by Picard because he would just be blasting the viewscreen.

    Riker tells Picard about the planet and what it has. He mentions that the materials being used are not those of the world. the miracle events of the stuff to please is mentioned. We then learn about how Riker and Troi know each other (I would have thought, that being first officer, that Riker could have just checked the duty roster and would have found out Troi was on board) Also, They can communicate telepathically. some. We learn that the two were rommantically involved

    The three (picard, troi, riker) gp visit groppler zorn and they wish to take advantage of the what the Bandi have to offer. First mention of the Ferengi. picard suggests that the Ferengi eat people. no bandi can go anywhere/want to go anywhere, and they can't help with anything being setup elsewhere. They finish their meeting with zorn

    Riker finds Data in the holodeck, and we learn how they function. We also learn that Data can tell where he is inside. Then we learn about Data, Riker learns about one of the rocks being loose, which Wes steps on (Actually based on the shot of Wes and the water/rocks, he didn't step on the loose one. The rock he is on just doesn't move, he actually does twist-turn to fall into the water, I think a poorly done stunt here) (also, Wes reminds wet after leaving the holodeck, that doesn't happen)

    So, the group goes exploring (Riker, Yar, Data, Troi, Geordi) they split up and starting exploring. Troi, Geordi, Yar go wandering through some tunnels under the station. Naturally they don't bring any lights with them, (Despite how useful that would have been) and Geordi examines everything with his special vision, recognizes nothing. Data and Riker wander around up topside, before hearing some news. Troi opens her mind and has an emotoinoal moment (Also, I think that just about all the scenes featuring Troi is this episode has her in some condition or other that makes it looks like she is on the verge/edge of tears. Not the stuff before the encounter with Q but all the stuff after. It is a bit jarring)

    A ship is approaching (X-Wing Class, Give him permission to land; sorry about that, I couldn't resist) Also, Wesley wanders around the bridge and then gets to sit in the Captain's chair. the ship is a flying saucer, an actual flying saucer looking thing. (Maybe there are aliens on board) (Or maybe it is an alien)

    The saucer thing scans the ship, and before a little bit, Picard talks with Zorn. Then the Saucer ship/thing starts firing on the old Bandi settlement, while Picard has the ship with shields up, phasers ready, and torpedoes ready. However, he decides to currently try to figure this out. The people exploring the station finish up and go back up. Riker send Geordi, Troi, and Yar back to the ship.

    Q shows up at this point to snark at the humans. He (Will be calling Q that) snarks at Picard for what Picard is doing. (This I think is Q playing the role of a Trickster Mentor. Q has no reason to interfere, but chooses to appear just about when Picard could have fired on the alien ship. It's like he is trying to get Picard to think differently in some way...) There is some further talking and then Riker says his piece, and Riker says he wants to beam over to the alien ship.

    We get a short interlude of Picard, having decided that it was important enough in the limited time that there is left, to have a chat with Dr. Crusher about Wesley. It happens (I skipped ahead of this part, It's just about how Picard is trying to clear the air about his so far not so friendly conduct with Dr Crusher and Wesley. Just a section that suddenly eats into the pacing of the episode. It should have happened sooner if it needed to happen at all. Or it could have happened after everything else did. Yeesh, it is out of place)

    Q reappears, there is discussion and we learn things. Plus we discover that the Ship/thing, is actually a space glowy Jellyfish. Also we see zorn rescued, that the Bandi treated the other alien thing badly. Also, Q watches the events (with a degree of smugness, but one also gets the sense of Him being very satisfied smugness about the humans that He is currently shepherding to a greater understanding)

    Section of Space Jellys getting energy and meeting up and taking off. After that, Picard gets Q to Leave. Q does, while smirking that they have not seen the last of him.

    ----------

    Episode Rating: 3 out of 5
    ((Episode Commentary to follow in next post))
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  2. - Top - End - #32
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Episode commentary and thoughts ----->>

    Rating: 3 out 5
    This episode/pilot was long, and it was also slow. It took a little long to a lead up and build up. There was some slog here. I think that they could have cut the scenes of separating the stardrive and saucer section, while also cutting the scenes of doing the reconnection of the saucer section and stardrive. Neither set of scenes are important enough to include in my opinion. Also, they could have trimmed down the scene of Picard and Dr Crusher. I don't think I recall fully what appears in this scene but I feel that it slows do the episode right when we are moving into the final act here. I am not sure Picard going down to Sick Bay to have a chat, is really the best in terms of pacing. The Holodeck scene could have been cut, and give Riker less area to walk through to find Data, along with just trimming parts there. It kinda drags a little.

    The Plot was a standard Trek TOS style of plot. So nothing interesting there. You could swap out the TOS cast, and I don't think that it would change anything really.

    The stuff with Q is great and pretty cool. That said, I think that I would like some of the scenes of the Enterprise sitting there with some mesh outside cut down. In those spots It drags a little bit. All of the Bridge scenes and the Trial scene, all with Q, works well. Maybe not as stretched out but they work pretty good.

    I think that so far, my favorite characters are Q, Worf, Data, and Picard. I don't have a feel for the other characters yet any, and Troi, well, Troi appeared to be post Q almost always in a state near of tears or something. Like she could start crying/sobbing at any moment. It's apparent a little more in that Telepathic talk to Riker scene. This may be the make up more, or just the lighting. It was a general impression.

    So, Miles. Miles is clearly an Ensign here, based on what I could see of his collar and the rank markers. A run down on ranks would be that we have a number of ranked people. That is good.

    The Ranks go: Picard - Captain; Riker - Commander; Data - Lt Commander; Worf - Lt and He has a golden sash for this season since he switches out for a silver one, also his sash is the one that was worn by Kor in the Errand of Mercy episode, the sash also has Worf's house symbol on it too; Yar - Lt; Geordi La Forge - Lt.

    Dr. Crusher is bit of a weird bird. Her and Wesley, I think were a little out of place, and I think a small immediate bit of scenes could have featured them and less so further on. I think the scene with Wesley asking for permission to go on the bridge and that should have been reduced, and just have Wesley in the Turbolift with Dr. Crusher coming out and talking.

    As for other things, I don't think there were any real troubles/problems. I do think the episode works but it doesn't really have an "oomph" to me. It doesn't leap out or really hook me any. Q definitely does, and I want to see more of Q, but I feel, just kinda of "meh" really. it's not terrible, it's not great, it's decent.

    So, Data was showing some emotional moments in this episode, a few here and there. Just little bits, but they feel more like the actor just working into the character more, remind me of the Spock emotional moments from the Cage Pilot.

    So, yeah, this episode is decent in terms of rating. Not terrible, not great, a middle level of good and "meh".

    Under the Rating system of Mango Shoggoth, this episode is:

    3 - Average episode: OK to watch, but nothing amazing. This should be the default score.

    Trackers)

    Miles O'Brien Ranking:
    Encounter at Farpoint - Ensign
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  3. - Top - End - #33
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Under the Rating system of Mango Shoggoth, ...
    Does that qualify as a vowel pun?

    (ahem)

    I remember watching Encounter at Farpoint when it first came out in the UK. I had enjoyed the original series growing up, and mostly enjoyed the cartoon version as well.

    My main memory from it is (and I hate to use the word) cringe from every time Troi appeared and a flat "what the hell" when they produced Wesley. Q himself felt like a really bad rewrite of Trelane from The Squire of Gothos.

    I remember the effects being good, and some of the background - especially the idea of carrying families on a long mission - was interesting.

    While I quickly warmed to Troi in subsequent episodes (when she started doing something other than weepy telepath), I never really took to Wesley. By the time they started trying to do something decent with him, he was already being written out.

    Overall, the episode felt like a mix of some really good ideas and a few good characters let down by some really poor writing and incredibly forced drama.

    What kept me with the series was that the underlying ideas looked good, and the characters mostly had potential despite the bad writing, and sure enough most of them improved as the season (and series) progressed.

    Even Q, who I disliked as a cliche smug overpowered villian in most of his early appearances, improved towards the end of the series when they started to portray him more as a trickster mentor for humanity. But this interpretation was tacked on years later. At the start he was a straight cliche, and not a very good character at all.

    I still think that even Wesley could have been improved by some decent writing and characterisation, but I only ever liked one of his focus episodes and all the other ones were bad, forgettable or (mercifully) unwatched.

    But overall, I would agree with the score - it's a 3; A later episode of this quality would get a 2 at best, but we have to remember that this was the first episode and the whole thing needs time to get itself together. This isn't damning - Earning a 5 (or even 4) out of the gate would have been nice, but would also give the first series a high bar to live up to.

    Suggestion for future episodes: Keep the plot summary smaller so everything fits in one post - we don't need a blow-by-blow account of the episode. Save that space for your commentary (which, paranthetically, was quite good).
    Last edited by Manga Shoggoth; 2021-04-02 at 07:15 AM.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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  4. - Top - End - #34
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    So, Miles. Miles is clearly an Ensign here, based on what I could see of his collar and the rank markers. A run down on ranks would be that we have a number of ranked people. That is good.
    As the only enlisted man in all of Starfleet, Miles is required to do a lot of jobs.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I think there's about one a season going from TNG and onward into the spin-offs. Though early on there were more as the Holodeck was a novel concept, and now they didn't have to find insane counter-part Earths like in TOS.

    There was also The Royal - I think it was called - which was a Holodeck Malfunction story even if it was an inexplicable alien simulation of a cheesy novel and not on the actual Holodeck.
    ....I'm already thinking of two in Season 2 alone: the episode where the transporter couldn't catch a pathogen and I won't spoil beyond that, and the one with the alien malware (which btw, sets up one of my favorite episodes in DS9).

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Originally Posted by Bugbear
    Kick Gene Roddenberry Out, is a bit of a waste too. For everything you want to blame on Gene, he also did all the good things.


    Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth
    Suggestion for future episodes: Keep the plot summary smaller so everything fits in one post - we don't need a blow-by-blow account of the episode.
    Very much seconded.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I think there's about one a season going from TNG and onward into the spin-offs. Though early on there were more as the Holodeck was a novel concept, and now they didn't have to find insane counter-part Earths like in TOS.

    There was also The Royal - I think it was called - which was a Holodeck Malfunction story even if it was an inexplicable alien simulation of a cheesy novel and not on the actual Holodeck.
    I think you're remembering more than there were, and possibly mixing in Voyager where "Holodeck goes bananas" was more of a thing.

    Spoiler: Holodeck malfunction tally
    Show
    For TNG, I can only think of 4 classic "Crew trapped and in danger on the holodeck" episodes (The 2 moriarty episodes, The Big Goodbye, and A Fistful of Datas), and two where they are trapped in an alien simulation (The Royale and Future Imperfect, and only on the latter is it clear that Riker was on a holodeck)

    Edit: Forgot about "The Inner Light" for the alien simulation tally, but that specifically wasn't a holodeck.

    There are two episodes where crew fall in love on the holodeck (11001001, Booby Trap), 1 crew obsessed with holodeck story (Hollow Pursuits) which might qualify.
    Last edited by Dire_Flumph; 2021-04-02 at 10:50 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Encounter at Farpoint

    This is an Original Series, or Star Trek Phase Two, episode for the simple reason that they were making a Star Trek show. This is what Star Trek was in the past, so they made it Star Trek in the '80's. Remember....there was nothing else. Sci fi on TV was a void in the mid 80's. And you had the typical Hollywood sci fi problem: Sci fi is just dumb stuff for kids, but er, Star Trek was "ok". So this boxed them into making only a Star Trek like show, anything else would have gotten them laughed at.

    The three arcs, Q/Farpoint/Introductions of the Characters is all a bit clunky. The idea of throwing a random crew of strangers together and have them solve a cosmic mystery is just odd.

    Captain Picard: The non-Kirk scholar captain, Riker-The Kirk, Data- The Spock, Worf- the enemy turned ally, Yar- the Ellen Ripley copy from Alien(s) and "strong woman character", Troi- The touchy feely 80's person, Crusher- the Doctor, Laforge- blind...and, er, was there, Wesley- wow, look a kid on a sci fi show..wow, so all the kids could..um..look up to him and want to be him or something..kids and sci fi wow!

    Worf and Yar get the odd couple. Both are the tough fighter types ready for aggression and physical action. Though in a twist Yar is made head of Security and Worf is just...um...there. Neither gets much of a chance to do "security" or even action.

    Troi gets to use her powers a lot here....but she gets the nerf quick, just like Data.

    They were so crazy about avoiding the Big Three, where Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the main characters of most Star Trek....and they make a large ensemble cast, that gives most nothing to do. Worf, Yar, Crusher, and LaForge don't get to do much other then stand around and made say a line.

    This is also why Doc Crusher only does some shopping and has drama with Picard.

    And why the ship has no Chief engineer main character.


    Er...yea...Helmsman Bob had a small palm phaser, in case he needrd it to pilot the ship. Yar and Worf are both unarmed, like everyone else.

    This episode has the silly line by Picard to "Tell everyone by PRINT OUT ONLY" the plan....because the all powerful alien can only listen to spoken words.

    The holodeck eats up a ton of time...but sure a 3D virtual reality world was a very new "cool" idea back in '87, so they wanted to show it off. Still...this would have been a lot better in another episode.

    Having Riker watch Encounter at Farpoint to get up to speed on things is just odd. Does the Enterprise record everything and why don't we ever see this again?

    So, yes......3 out of 5 is good for me too.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    To be honest, the problem with Yar and stuff to do is based more on the writers have done no research really.

    Yar and Worf end up both wearing two hats, the Chief of Security hat, and the PWO - Principle Weapons Officer / Defense Officer Hats. This ends up sticking them on the Bridge with little to do, despite that in reality is not the case.

    The Chief of Security functions basically like Odo from Deep Space Nine, and Garibaldi from Babylon 5. The Chief of Security is the Sheriff in the old wild west form. The role means working to investigate events among the crew of the ship/station, along with being in charge of postings of guards for sensitive or high security/topsecret locations, the protection of VIPs, Dignatories (Sp?), Flag Officers of Ranks from Commodore and Above, and Diplomats. They function as the head of a section of Military Police, or in civilians terms as being Chief of Police (Vick in Psych) or like Gibbs with his team in NCIS. This is a department of its own onboard naval vessels and also stations. It is a fairly active role and the Chief would be busy.

    The PWO - Principle Weapons Officer, is in charge of weapons aboard a ship. They do all the firing solutions steps, set up the weapons, fire the weapons. They oversee the stock of the weapons on board ship, the ammunition. They have no oversight over the small arms, since falls under the role of the Chief of Security more or the Master Armorer sort of, who looks after the Armory with the guns-rifles/pistols/etc plus ammunition for that is held. They also are not involved in any way with Security, as the PWO is a bridge officer spot solely. In old wild west terms, they are the Artillery officer, the guys/gals loading the big artillery guns, loading the canons. They are the ones firing the cannons. This is also its own department. They oversee anybody also working with the weapons, the gunnery officers and teams.

    So, combining the two hats means in old Wild West terms that your sheriff is also your artillery officer at the Fort. The Sheriff is helping to load the cannons, they are helping to aim and fire the cannons. They are keeping track of how much cannonball/types and powder for firing the cannons. They are keeping track of having the other material for working cannons.

    Those two hats combined is completely wrong. They are two separate departments that have exactly no overlap. There is no reason as Chief of Security for Yar to man a console. She would be present as called for by the Captain, but also present during Red Alerts and maybe Yellow Alerts for Bridge Crew Safety. Meanwhile she would be in an office doing work. The person manning the console would be doing the weapons, the shields/other defenses, and any communications. That would be their sole function, doing that. They would also have staff to look over everything weapons related except for the hand held phasers of any kind, and also over the shield systems. They would not be bouncing between the two jobs.

    There is no effective reason to combine the two department heads into a single role, which is why there is so little for Yar to do. The Writers did this in error because as Chief of Security, Yar would be way to busy to be constantly on the Bridge. It's a bad error to make.

    When Worf gets the Job, he ends up having to wear both hats as well. They function normally as two separate departments. Even if Starfleet is mildly military, these two functions/departments should be combined, because they also involve completely different sets of training.
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    I am sorry about the Mango bit, Manga. I just recalled it wrong.

    The problem with the Ensemble Cast at this point is that the writers/crew hadn't figured out where to stick the different people fully. We have a few defined roles but the others just drift.

    Picard is the Captain. He performs that role
    Riker is the First officer
    Data floats, he drifts between helping with away teams, and he mans a console on the bridge.
    La Forge floats, he drifts between helping with away teams, and he mans a console on the bridge.
    Worf floats, he drifts between helping with away teams, and he mans a console on the bridge.
    Yar functions as both PWO - Principle Weapons Officer and as Chief of Security, helps/goes on away teams, and mans a console
    Miles drifts, mans a console, no away team function
    Troi drifts, hangs out in a chair by the captain and plays a helper role, also performs as ship's counselor which would have been a full time job and she would not have been on the bridge as often as she is
    Crusher, Dr. Crusher, is the chief medical officer
    Wesley floats, has no established functions yet

    They don't have an established Chief Engineer or Scotty, that will get picked up later by La Forge
    They don't have an established Science Officer or Spock, that bounces around between Data and La Forge
    They don't have an established Helm/Navigation Officer or Sulu, that bounces around between Data, La Forge, and Worf
    The role of Chekov in firing weapons and mentioning shields and stuff is filled by Yar and then Worf; it's the station at the part behind the captain's seat in the bridge, the wood thing

    For most of the time, the cast spends it on the bridge. several of them are not necessary here, but the idea of filling the other roles with cast members has not yet caught on. After going to Engineering, we will not be seeing La Forge on the bridge often anymore. So, that has not yet happened, it's a second season change.

    I will work on condensing the Episode Plot summaries. Getting used to a sense of how much to include, how to work it best. The examples that I am following so far are the ones made by Yora for the DS9 and Babylon 5 watch threads. I will work on improvements in that.

    I like Q as Q as appeared so far. I just do. I think that is due to John de Lancie's acting. Also, we have Patrick Stewart as Picard. From what I recall, Roddenberry didn't want Stewart originally as Picard. That is something I think is good that it didn't happen, and we got Stewart.

    Being the first episode, neither the cast or crew have handle on the characters yet. This will be a major problem for the next episode in the season, the Naked Now, which is a comedy episode really.

    Will have the next episode up, when I have the time for watching and commenting on. That will be later today
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    If you start applying naval military logic to Star Trek, you are starting at a disadvantage.

    It's not about the naval military, it's about science/adventure/military. Especially in the TNG era, the tactical/security officer where the "violence character". You usually don't need a violence character for shooting aliens at the same time you need a violence character to shoot at alien ships.

    Compare to DS9, where you had multiple "violence characters" that were covering many nuances

    You had Kira, who covered political violence
    You had Odo, who covered police/criminal violence
    You had Quark, who covered financial violence
    Garak, spycraft violence
    Sisko, who was both a war victim and a "big war picture" guy
    Worf was just all over the place and very well rounded

    O'Brian also had this grizzled veteran edge to him that was less present than in TNG.

    The problem with Star Trek main style is that most of the time the show is framed as "shop in a bottle", so there is only so much way to interact with other people in the cadre of that shop in a bottle.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    To be honest, the problem with Yar and stuff to do is based more on the writers have done no research really.
    There is also the issue that she's Chief of Security on a ship where editorial decree has made it so that there will be no conflict among the crew. With a distinct lack of squeaky wheels the day to day jobs of the chief of security don't exist.
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2021-04-02 at 03:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    I am sorry about the Mango bit, Manga. I just recalled it wrong.
    No offence was taken - I just thought you were pulling off a pun and was acknowledging it. I am rather partial to puns.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Originally Posted by Mando Shoggoth
    I am rather partial to puns.
    This is the way.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    To be honest, the problem with Yar and stuff to do is based more on the writers have done no research really.
    Well, they are after all TV people, so they don't really do research....they do TV. But they fail there too.

    The basic idea is the Captain is older and more a scholar, so NOT a Kirk like Captain. He would mostly stay on the ship while the first officer ran the away teams and took care of the action, both fights and the sexy stuff.

    That is Riker, the Kirk guy. So the Enterprise would go to a strange new world and Riker would fight the monsters and aliens, while Picard did things like negotiation.

    So, I guess the idea is Riker would need a buddy to fight with, and that was confusingly made to be Yar and Worf. Data was more support or tech then a combatant, and like I said they had to super nerf Data so he did not rule the universe. In any fight with typical "like human" aliens Data can move super fast, shot with excellent computer pin point accuracy and has super human strength.......but the show quickly nerfs and forgets about all that.

    So Riker, Yar and Worf fighting aliens and other action adventure.

    Except that idea is if TNG was TOS, as in an exact copy. TOS was very quick to get to the "wild west like fight" . In TOS beem down to a planet and a fight was soon to start. Tons of TOS episodes are pure fights that take up a bulk of the show.

    But TNG was not made to be that exactly. Some fights and action, sure.....but nothing like TOS. There is no fight in Encounter at Farpoint. The space jellyfish don't make ninja antibodies to fight the crew or anything like that.

    Riker does a bit more just investigation and being in command. Yar and Worf are just there.

    As you watch the show note the actors that complained that they had nothing to do were Picard, Yar and Crusher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbear View Post
    That is Riker, the Kirk guy. So the Enterprise would go to a strange new world and Riker would fight the monsters and aliens, while Picard did things like negotiation.
    Though this is commonly stated, and may at one point have been part of the plan, it's probably not how things actually hit production.

    See, there's a problem with Riker being the Fighty Guy. The problem is that he's played by Jonathan Frakes. And Jonathan Frakes has a pretty serious persistent back injury (As this series goes on you may notice that Riker has an ideosyncratic approach to chairs and is very often leaning on things, those are both ways that JF managed the back pain of either standing around all day or having to bend quickly, with some types of back pain sitting down is a bit of a mission.). He doesn't not do fight scenes, but he's not really the E-D's go-to fight boy.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    To be honest

    Picard: He was made to be a scholar type of captain and a non action guy. So he stays on the ship, doesn't go on away missions really and is just there. So he is written already to not do much

    Yar: she has moments where more could have been done with her but that was not figured out by the writers. Like Janeway, they just couldn't figure out what to do with her. The few times that she does things it shows potential but the writers just miss it.

    Crusher: she gets the wham of being mainly tied with wesley and without him, the writers just don't know what she is. She is supposed to be the ship's chief medical officer but there ends up being not much call for that. Frankly she suffers from the same problems as B5's Doctor Franklin.
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    In the Original Series, security was sort of a cross between marines and military police. They both guarded the science personal and other officers who went ashore on dangerous planets, and dealt with misbehaving visitors to the ship and personal (who might be under alien influence, or otherwise not acting normally). For reasons of drama, they aren't seen to be terribly effective in either job. Neither task should require that the chief of security be on the bridge under normal circumstances. (Different rules apply in the Mirror Universe, of course.)

    On the other hand, McCoy spent a lot more time on the bridge than his official role really supported, and that worked fairly well. Good writing can overcome a lack of realism.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post

    Crusher: she gets the wham of being mainly tied with wesley and without him, the writers just don't know what she is. She is supposed to be the ship's chief medical officer but there ends up being not much call for that. Frankly she suffers from the same problems as B5's Doctor Franklin.
    This is a good point.

    With TNG based off TOS you have the Doctor character. McCoy is given the spot of Commander, though he does not have that rank. Still he is almost never more then a few feet from both Kirk and Spock with something to say.

    Also a huge plot point in many TOS episodes is injuries (because there was so much physical combat and effects) and a great many episodes had "something" effecting people.

    This gave the Doctor character TONS to do.

    TNG is a LOT less focused on combat and strange things that effect the crew. This gives the poor Doctor character nothing to do. In like a dozen episodes Dr. Crusher will "fight" the common cold though...

    B5's Doctor Franklin is a great example. Guess the idea was "sci fi show must have a Doctor"....but B4 is a huge epic story. And a Doctor really does not fit in. Binge watch the show and several episodes go by where poor Doc Franklin gets only a cameo. His drug plot only gets like ten minutes of screen time, and then he gets the Walkabout episode. He does not really do anything until the Mars arc.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 1 Episode 2
    The Naked Now
    Stardate: 41209.2

    Plot:
    this episode starts out with the Enterprise traveling to make contact with a Russian named the SS tsiolkovksy (I know that I spelled that wrong, the ship is named after konstane/konstean T, a Russian Rocket Scientist or Space Guy like Oberth/etc. The ship is one of the Oberth science type ships, that was the US Grissom from Star Trek 3) which has been watching a star that is slowing falling apart. The crew of the SS T.Guy have lost their minds and end up opening an emergency hatch on the bridge. The team of Riker, Yar, La Forge, Data, beam over and check out the ship. Data works to download the ship's logs about the star. The rest of the away team explore the ship, and find that everyone is dead. Some of the crew died from freezing, and La Forge finds a clothed person in the shower unit.

    Riker ends up remembering something about the "showering with clothes" and tasks Data with finding it. The away team is checked out, but as it turns out, this stuff is not filtered out at all. La Forge is infected and it spreads through the whole ship. Naturally things occur.

    Wesley is messing with a version of the ship's tractor beam, and has a toy that He made to simulate the captain's voice. Wesley uses said device to take over engineering where he proceeds to have Picard declare him "Acting captain". The star breaks down and sends a rock with fire out that ends up hitting the SS T, which explodes and then the Enterprise D warps away, after Data replaced the Isolinear chips in.

    The thing that Riker remembers relates to the TOS episode the "Naked time" which is brought up along with the solution there. A few tweaks makes the solution work for our crew here.

    Memorable Moments:
    Beverly flirting heavily with Picard in his ready room on the bridge with the strong subtext that she would like to copulate with him (With Crusher pulling the zipper down on her uniform to expose part of her chest as part). Picard must resist for the sake of the mission. It's clear that he very much would like to indulge her, but can't right now doctor.

    Yar's antics and then her asking Data how functional he is. Then making use of said functionality. Then after everything has calmed down, telling Data that nothing happened.

    1 - Bad episode: Multiple weaknesses (bad acting, bad story, disasterous effects, poor connection to lore)
    to
    2 - Poor episode: Not too bad but has one or two week areas (Poor plot, weak character use, bad effects)

    [Episode Commentary]
    This is the first real episode and it is a comedic episode. While the comedy works some, some stuff just falls flat, like the ease of Wesley taking over and the sheer amount of fail, like how La Forge can just wander off out of Sick Bay. When Wesley uses his Picard voice simulator, the engineer lady doesn't comm the bridge to ask for any further information. That probably would have stopped all of Wesley's actions almost immediately.

    Worf is not affected by the crazy, leaving him the only sane one. Riker gets affected near the end part of the episode before the new solution gets spread.

    Then there is what with Yar (sleeps with Data), Troi (Who visits Riker in Engineering for some hanky-panky), Dr. Crusher (Who visits Picard on the bridge and does her longing for the touch of a man scene), other crew (The background shows a number of crewmembers hooking up). Plus we have Troi's empathic reaction when she visits Riker with its heavy implication that most of the crew are busy getting it on.

    This episode frankly hits bad spots, because we barely know the characters at this point. We go from the introductions in Encounter at Farpoint to this comedy episode. Beverly goes from having a cold distant demeanor towards Picard to barely restrained jump his bones in this episode. It's not exactly the greatest of displays.

    Wesley saves the day, but then he was also responsible for the problem. His ability at turning the Tractor Beam into a Repulsor beam is interesting, but surprising that the chief engineer couldn't figure it out. It's a bit much that it would takes weeks to lay down new circuits when Wesley shows that a few simple reroutes can do the job.

    Wesley naturally receives no punishment for seizing control of the ship.

    Also, there is no hazmat protocol of any kind apparently. Dr. Crusher does nothing to prevent La Forge from leaving nor does she use any kind of protection, that a regular doctor is this scenario would have used. That is all bizarre.

    It's not looking great so far. I did find some stuff funny for this episode but that was more just crazy it was, and how much out of character or in character everyone acts. The episode is just full of Narm: Yar, Dr Crusher, Troi, Data, Wesley.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    I suspect they were still leaning into the 'Trek Show' angle at this point. Much like the eventual Tribble episode, these are just callback nostalgia references to classic TOS episodes in full episode format.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    This isn't one I've seen (I still have no idea how much of the series I've seen), but it sounds awful. It is the sort of episode that might have worked in the middle of S3, once the characters are bedded in (so to speak). But yes, as the first episode after the pilot it is a questionable choice.

    (The question being "what the heck were they thinking?")
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I suspect they were still leaning into the 'Trek Show' angle at this point. Much like the eventual Tribble episode, these are just callback nostalgia references to classic TOS episodes in full episode format.
    I don't think there was a "tribble episode" in TNG.

    The DS9 tribble episode was in Honor of 30 years of Star Trek, so indulging in nostalgia was the point.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post

    (The question being "what the heck were they thinking?")
    A mean part of me suspects the answer is 'Gene Rodenbury was thinking it was still the 60's'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    This isn't one I've seen (I still have no idea how much of the series I've seen), but it sounds awful. It is the sort of episode that might have worked in the middle of S3, once the characters are bedded in (so to speak). But yes, as the first episode after the pilot it is a questionable choice.
    In comparison, "The Naked Time" was the 4th episode of the original series to air, and in one of the previous episodes they hadn't settled on the full set of first season regulars yet. I think this kind of episode can work as a quick introductory dive into the characters' psyches fairly early on, but maybe the second episode is too soon.

    ~~~
    But we really needed random Caitians caterwauling in the corridors. Just sayin'.
    Last edited by DavidSh; 2021-04-04 at 12:35 PM.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I don't think there was a "tribble episode" in TNG.

    The DS9 tribble episode was in Honor of 30 years of Star Trek, so indulging in nostalgia was the point.
    Right, my bad. The tribble episode was DS9.

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 1 Episode 3
    Code of Honor
    Stardate: 41235.25

    Plot:

    Yar has a fight with a woman. The rest is just ways to make the fight happen, while trying to produce reasons why the fight should happen. Also, Luton gets demoted.

    The actual plot -- is that the Enterprise has been sent to the planet Ligon to get a vaccine that can't be replicated and that so they need to get it from the Ligonions. The crew welcomes Luton, the leader of the people and the crew show him around as well as gift him with a horse from the Song dynasty.

    Luton kidnaps Yar and then has a whole thing about making her his top wife. There is the crew deciding to try to do diplomacy working through the Ligon to get the vaccine.

    Yar and Yar (Yareena, who is Luton's wife) have a fight in a kid's jumble gym and the crew sends her back after beaming her up. She demotes Luton, who was trying to kill his wife.

    Rating:

    1 - Bad episode: Multiple weaknesses (bad acting, bad story, disasterous effects, poor connection to lore)

    [Episode Commentary]

    This episode runs on the idiot ball because there is no reason to keep Yar in Luton's care. Nor is there a reason to have Yar fight the wife, Picard should have beamed her up at that point.

    The whole thing with the vaccine is wonky because vaccines are made from the virus that is dangerous. The doctor could make itself after a time. Instead she worries about if it can be replicated or not. The natives were making the vaccine without replicating it, why exactly did Crusher feel a need to try replicating it?

    It's like that as soon as replicators were available that they became the solution to all problems. Get a vaccine, replicate it endlessly. It is dumb.

    Picard just rolls with the actions of Luton, but never brings up how those actions would look really. This is more due to how Gene decided people would act now, with words and no actions as much.

    And then it does the Trek usual of portraying a culture in a poor way. The natives are all black cast.

    I really expected that based on how the episode goes before Yar's kidnapping that the crew would be taking actions and steps to earn respect. Thst is how it is molded up but then the kidnapping happens and we get Pansy Picard not doing anything about Yar because diplomacy.

    I was not impressed with them
    Last edited by russdm; 2021-04-05 at 01:04 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Plot: Yar has a fight with a woman. The rest is just ways to make the fight happen, while trying to produce reasons why the fight should happen. Also, Luton gets demoted.
    I'm tempted to say your "plot" above was your commentary. I had to actually look up the episode to have any idea what you were talking about. Even if this is considered (one of) the worst TNG episodes ever, I'd expect you to actually give us some details about what happened in the episode, then tell us why you didn't like it. Give us something to discuss. :)

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Alternatively we could leave it at that so we can continue to pretend this Episode never happened
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Yes. Let's do that. The franchise forgot this episode existed, I say we move forward. There's nothing to add to this that hasn't been said a lot in a lot of places.

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