New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 8 of 29 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415161718 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 240 of 852
  1. - Top - End - #211
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Yes, it's a "bodily autonomy on principle" thing. Men in sci-fi (with the exception of Futurama) never get hit with a surprise pregnancy for cheap drama, so it's something that almost only ever happens to women...because they're women.
    What about that one episode of Red Dwarf

    EDIT:
    Also, and this isn't a response to that particular comment but to the entire previous page of the thread, I don't see how it's rapey. Sex and pregnancy are two different things and you can have either one without the other.

    EDIT:
    If anything it's closer to forced labor, she's been forced into a temporary job as a surrogate. That's bad, but by the standards of things Star Trek officers get shanghaied into doing it's not too bad, at least they didn't get forced to fight in a gladitorial arena like Kirk, Uhura, and Chekov in The Gamesters of Triskelion or forced into an ACTUALLY RAPEY situation like Vina and Captain Pike in The Menagerie
    Last edited by Bohandas; 2021-08-27 at 10:26 AM.
    "If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins

    Omegaupdate Forum

    WoTC Forums Archive + Indexing Projext

    PostImage, a free and sensible alternative to Photobucket

    Temple+ Modding Project for Atari's Temple of Elemental Evil

    Morrus' RPG Forum (EN World v2)

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    What about that one episode of Red Dwarf
    Having never seen Red Dwarf, I'm not sure what the episode was about. But from context I'm guessing it was about a dude getting pregnant? I figured there were examples I didn't know, which is why I put "almost" in there.

    And pregnant men have their own unacknowledged problems in "supernatural pregnancy" stories. It's always treated as a hilarious situation: "look at the pregnant man, he's so fat and he's doing stereotypically pregnant woman things! Men don't do woman things, haha!" When in reality, a pregnancy for me (a man) would be horrifying on a number of levels, not least of which is the, ahem, exit strategy. And that's not even accounting for the body image issues that plenty of pregnant people in real life have, and are also treated as silly if they happen to men. Honestly, if memory serves the Futurama episode was actually one of the more touching ones I remember.

    Hot take: Pregnancy stories should not happen in Sci-Fi, unless they're season-long arcs with lots of exploration of the pregnant person's experience, or treated like the actual body horror they would inevitably be (only in the right subgenre of sci-fi horror, of course). Otherwise, these stories always butcher the experience of pregnancy. It's a huge, complicated topic that changes everyone who experiences it in different ways, and its depiction in all of fiction is one of the most watered-down and disrespectful treatments of real life. Don't half-ass a fictional pregnancy, full stop.

  3. - Top - End - #213
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By Bellevue, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Nice great discussions people.

    Also, I think I need to start a tag of countdown to the First Appearance of the Borg. Since they make an appearance later this season. And the Borg have always given me nightmares and...interesting...nightmares...
    (Has anyone else had a weird dream/nightmare about being the Borg King type person with even a Borg style Throne Box to sit in and being in a Pyramid style Borg ship? Or has that been just me?)

    Season 2 Episode 2
    Where Silence Has Lease
    Stardate: 42193.6

    [Plot]
    So the Episode starts with Us Viewers getting a look at what Klingon ideas about an exercise program is/are. A series of fights with some creatures. Which frankly just looks cool. (I always love Klingon Stuff). Picard is worried about Riker and Worf, who are employing the program. Worf goes a little wild, and starts being aggressive towards Riker.

    The crew are visiting a place called Morgana Something, when they encounter a patch of empty space? Black Space? A space cloud? in space. After finding it something curious, naturally Picard must pay it a visit. Which they then do.

    They send in a probe, and Worf mentions a Klingon Legend about a cloud/creature that devours Starships. Interesting. They send another probe, and then end up in the black could thing.

    Dr. P comes on the bridge and has a moment with Data (She calls him "It" and suggests he doesn't know how to work his console), when Picard orders maxifciation be done (Making things further away go bigger and look closer). There seems to be nothing to see.

    Dr. P talks to Data, but brings up that he is a machine, and then alive, and that she has to accept that. Data gives a smug little smile. The crew have some events happen.

    Then they encounter a Romulan Warbird and have a brief fight. Then another galaxy class ship appears. Riker and Worf go over to explore and wee what happened. Naturally, it is a ghost ship.

    Oh, and Miles O'Brien is manning the Transporter Station, (His Rank Badge or Rank is: Lt.)

    Worf and Riker explore the ship, and then there are weird structural parts. The weirdness makes Worf be a little bit nutty or slightly insane. He has a moment of losing control because of the whole bridge(s) thing. then the ship disappears and the two are beamed back.

    Some other events happen, and then Troi is detecting an "intelligence" or something. Apparently the crew are being experimented upon. So Picard decides to do nothing. Then something appears.

    It is a bizarre entity that calls itself "Nagilum", whatever that is. It wants to learn about people and Sex (Because apparently, every single entity that doesn't understand human type creatures want to learn about Sex)

    The Naggy (Nagilum) decides to kill the Redshirt (Meaning I need a tracker for this) and is curious. Then Naggy decides to test out dying on humans/humanoids some more. The crew are stunned over this.

    Picard is having none of this and decides to blow up the ship. It is the option that he fills the best to do. So, Picard turns on the Self-Destruct function. Naturally, Naggy doesn't like this and creates some images of Troi and Data to get him to stop.

    Picard sees through the trick, so Naggy ends up having to abandon things. The ship ends up back in normal space, and the self-destruct is halted. Then after a brief conversation, Naggy leaves. The crew go on there way.

    [Rating]
    2 - Poor episode: Not too bad but has one or two week areas (Poor plot, weak character use, bad effects)

    {Episode Commentary}
    To be honest, this episode just doesn't come across all that much like in terms of being interesting. Feels like a standard God-Like Entity messes with the Crew Episode. It feels a little bit just slow and uninteresting. A weird entity interacts with the crew. They wander around in a space cloud of sorts, have a few encounters, and then later, they encounter Naggy, who looks terrible. Despite the idea of exploring a perhaps different perspective, the episode just seems to slog on.

    I liked the parts about learning about Klingon things, like Worf's program, and the legend. Those parts were pretty nice. And the other parts with Worf on the fictional Ship were nice too.

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

    Trackers)
    Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 1 ()
    Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
    Hidden Gems: 3
    Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 (marc alaimo plays a romylan here)
    Rank of Miles: Ensign
    Prime Directives: 2
    Patrick Stewart Speech: 3 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
    Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
    Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
    Pithy Aesops: 1
    Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
    Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
    Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
    Actually Alien Aliens: 1
    Lore's Appearances: 1
    *Data's Emotions: 2
    *Troi Troubles: 1
    *Money Matters: 1
    Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
    1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
    2)Dr. P verbally belittles Data or treats him with contempt: 2
    3) Dr. P acts and treats Data like some fancy shmancy tool device that needs to be put into its proper place.: 1.5
    4) Dr. P acts racist towards Data:
    5) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:
    Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
    Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!

    My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
    (Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)

  4. - Top - End - #214
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    What other problem could it possibly cause her?

    Is this a bodily autonomy purely on principle for it's own sake thing? Because this episode has nothing on the ending to Phage, which basically ends with Janeway selling Neelix's organs at a loss, and I've never heard this kind of vitriol about Phage (is it because it's Neelix?)
    People having their organs stolen is an urban legend. There aren’t real victims who can identify with what happened to Neelix.

    Women being denied agency over their own bodies and being regarded as incubators is an actual issue. Now if you want a comparison look to Enterprises Unexpected.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

  5. - Top - End - #215
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Having never seen Red Dwarf, I'm not sure what the episode was about. But from context I'm guessing it was about a dude getting pregnant? I figured there were examples I didn't know, which is why I put "almost" in there.
    Yes. Though not "supernaturally", the crew visit a parallel universe where everything is gender flipped (except the evolved cat, who is a dog).

    Lister, the laddish character, gets drunk and has sex with the female version of himself.

    But everything is gender flipped, including who gets pregnant.

    The pregnancy itself isn't really the point though, it's the punchline of the episode and gets dealt with offscreen, it's about reflecting the dismissive way women are treated on the male characters.

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    I can't comment on this episode, because I generally forget it exists. I had to stop writing this comment three times to look back at what we were talking about.

  7. - Top - End - #217
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Another episode that feels mostly like TNG still trying to be a TOS episode. I'm glad it grew beyond this because I agree, there was absolutely nothing special at all about this one.

    Still prefer it over "Alien Baby Forces Troi Into a Hallmark Movie" though

  8. - Top - End - #218
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By Bellevue, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 2 Episode
    Elementary, Dear Data
    Stardate: 42286.3

    [Plot]
    the crew are waiting for another ship to arrive. Geordi has made a model of the HMS Victory to present to the captain that he served with as the ship to arrive is also called Victory. Data comes and collects geordi to go do some holodeck cosplaying, as sherlock holmes and dr. watson

    as it turns out, data remembers everything from all of the novels or stuff for sherlock holmes. dr.p mentions that data would have some trouble. data accepts a challenge

    the first bit ends up being just a combo of two stories. so geordi goes to the arch and has the computer make an opponent for data, not holmes. the computer makes professor m get all smart.

    what follows is an exploration of what would happen with a self aware hologram. in the end, picard promises to help professor m. the victory ship arrives and geordi is fixing his model.

    [Rating]
    4 - Good episode: A few parts of the episode are above average - good plot points, clever use of effects and so on.

    {Episode Commentary}
    so this is a nice episode. it is not one of the holodeck mishaps since the crew (geordi) actually requested what ended up causing the problem. not sure that it is a problem though.

    so professor m is the precursor to the emh and vic from ds9. the story is good in that it also shows ways that data could improve himself. also i think that we have a few episodes to go before we get to encounter data's pet spot.

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

    Trackers)
    Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 1 ()
    Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
    Hidden Gems: 3
    Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 (marc alaimo plays a romylan here)
    Rank of Miles: Ensign
    Prime Directives: 2
    Patrick Stewart Speech: 3 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
    Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
    Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
    Pithy Aesops: 1
    Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
    Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
    Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
    Actually Alien Aliens: 1
    Lore's Appearances: 1
    *Data's Emotions: 2
    *Troi Troubles: 1
    *Money Matters: 1
    Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
    1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
    2)Dr. P verbally belittles Data or treats him with contempt: 2
    3) Dr. P acts and treats Data like some fancy shmancy tool device that needs to be put into its proper place.: 1.5
    4) Dr. P acts racist towards Data:
    5) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:
    Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
    Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!

    My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
    (Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)

  9. - Top - End - #219
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    I like this episode. Data and Geordi as Holmes and Watson is just too perfect! And the guy playing Moriarty was great, too. Even Doctor Pulaski isn't too horrible in this one.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    Watch me draw and swear at video games.

  10. - Top - End - #220
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Even Doctor Pulaski isn't too horrible in this one.
    It's a shame that this is an accurate statement about the character. At least some part of the Bones/Spock rivalry was that Spock understood exactly what was being said and could give as good as he got (often better). That's not there with Data, who is much more childlike.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-01 at 12:00 PM.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  11. - Top - End - #221
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By Bellevue, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Actually this is one of the few episodes that dr.p treats data with a degree of decency. Almost like a mentor of sorts similar to how Picard and Geordi act for Data and showing him human aspects.

    Then we get the stuff that happens with the Stragatema (the weird strategy game) that happens.

    To be honest, I think that dr.p should have been gone as being someone who didn't see Data as being anything more than a machine then learn how he is more and slowly begins to appreciate and treat him better and maybe goes a Q route and becomes a trickster mentor of sorts for Data.

    Let the Bones Spock dynamics rest.

    But the writers had to go and be stupid. I really want to blame for gene this but I don't think that Gene was the one who came up with using the bones spock dynamics. That was the writers and I think that Gene decided to just do nothing over things.

    Of course it did give the doctor some interesting uses opposed to boring Crusher. TNG has the same problem that Babylon 5 has with dr. Franklin. Neither can figure out how to make their doctors interesting.

    Well until b5's gropos and we get some characterization for Franklin and then he gets his walkabout and then goes to mars. It gave him something to do but he was fairly uninteresting before those. His time with Marcus and the drug addiction were interesting.

    Crusher is basically tied to picard and wesley and has little else. Dr.p has no ties to picard and is older and has a different personality. Then there is Gene's rule on conflict which didn't mean that the writers couldn't have used plots. Investigating what happens on a planet with a special disease maybe.

    Oh well. It's not like having a doctor on board would have allowed for interesting stories to tell for writers that could actually think some
    Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
    Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!

    My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
    (Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)

  12. - Top - End - #222
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    I liked this episode for the most part, though it was not without its flaws. I felt like the setup was a little contrived with Data having to act a bit more obtuse than usual in order for Pulaski's criticisms to seem reasonable, and I'm not sure the computer should be capable of creating a sentient Dr. Moriarty like that, but if you don't think too hard about it I guess it's fine.

    I do consider this one of if not the most egregious episode in terms of Dr. Pulaski picking on Data, but she does at least learn from it. This should have been when the attempt at recreating the Spock/McCoy dynamic was laid to rest or at least allowed to evolve in a more different direction.


    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Of course it did give the doctor some interesting uses opposed to boring Crusher.

    <snip>

    Crusher is basically tied to picard and wesley and has little else. Dr.p has no ties to picard and is older and has a different personality.
    I never used to feel this way, but I actually kinda agree with this. I'm in early season 3 on my own TNG rewatch right now, and I find myself actually missing Dr. Pulaski and being rather bored with Dr. Crusher. I always liked Gates McFadden, but other than being Wesley's mom and an occasional romantic foil for Captain Picard (which they haven't really explored much at this point in the series) she doesn't have much going for her in terms of personality or storylines. At this point she barely has any more character development than Tasha did, if even that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Work is the scourge of the gaming classes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Neither Evershifting List of Perfectly Prepared Spells nor Grounds to Howl at the DM If I Ever Lose is actually a wizard class feature.

  13. - Top - End - #223
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By Bellevue, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 2 Episode 4
    The Outrageous Okona
    Stardate: 42402.7

    [Plot]
    the crew are heading to a system when they have to go rescue a ship owned by Okona. Okona is a charmer, he tells jokes to Data, who doesn't get them. so data goes to guinan to learn about humor.

    Okona charms a few female crewmembers then the leaders of the two planets show up and complain. to sum up, Okona helped the son and daughter of the two leaders have a relationship. that all ends up well.

    the other part is data learning about humor and bad jokes.

    [Rating]
    3 - Average episode: OK to watch, but nothing amazing. This should be the default score.

    {Episode Commentary}
    so the comic who appears is joe priscopo and Okona is played by the runner up for Riker. the writers tried to make an expy of Han Solo as Okona but I have doubts about how that was what they were going for. Okona doesn't seem to have really much of anything like Han and most of the stuff ascribed to Okona is informed and not really true.

    this is a break of what the writers thought was going across and what the audience was getting. the rest of the plot is basically a smash up of romeo and juliet. i would have gone with a lower score but the stuff with data elevates the episode for a score of 2 to a 3.

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

    Trackers)
    Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 1 ()
    Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
    Hidden Gems: 3
    Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 (marc alaimo plays a romylan here)
    Rank of Miles: Ensign
    Prime Directives: 2
    Patrick Stewart Speech: 3 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
    Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
    Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
    Pithy Aesops: 1
    Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
    Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
    Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
    Actually Alien Aliens: 1
    Lore's Appearances: 1
    *Data's Emotions: 2
    *Troi Troubles: 1
    *Money Matters: 1
    Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
    1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
    2)Dr. P verbally belittles Data or treats him with contempt: 2
    3) Dr. P acts and treats Data like some fancy shmancy tool device that needs to be put into its proper place.: 1.5
    4) Dr. P acts racist towards Data:
    5) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:
    Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
    Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!

    My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
    (Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)

  14. - Top - End - #224
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Okona had a cool costume, that's the only thing I truly remembered about this episode! "Data learns about human customs" was always varying quality depending on the writer, but I do think it worked more often than it didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Crusher is basically tied to picard and wesley and has little else. Dr.p has no ties to picard and is older and has a different personality. Then there is Gene's rule on conflict which didn't mean that the writers couldn't have used plots. Investigating what happens on a planet with a special disease maybe.

    Oh well. It's not like having a doctor on board would have allowed for interesting stories to tell for writers that could actually think some
    I agree that Dr. Crusher is not very distinct, but I find that I didn't really mind all that much. I appreciated how she was allowed to shine as a very competent doctor and leader of a team. She didn't have fits of passion or ever seem unreasonable, and she rarely made big flashy mistakes. I even appreciated how she was allowed to have ongoing romances even though our introduction to her was in the role of a mother, and nobody made a big deal of it. TNG was pretty touch-and-go for its handling of female characters, but that bit was nice.

    There's something about the "unremarkable, competent badass" character type that I like a lot, especially in a cast with as many personal woes as TNG (even if they're all incredibly reasonable people for the most part).

    Which is part of what galled me so much about Sub Rosa: Crusher had to be out of character from the start for it to work (which it didn't anyway, but they certainly tried). I guess by season 7 the writers had run out of ways to do weird sex stuff to Troi.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2021-09-02 at 10:55 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #225
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    "Data learns about human customs" was always varying quality depending on the writer, but I do think it worked more often than it didn't.
    The "fish out of water, but for humans" is a standard Trek setpiece. Spock, Data, Odo, Neelix, they all have a "will I ever understand these crazy humans and their crazy humanisms" outlook for the audience.

    Okona's shenanigans did not age well.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-02 at 12:22 PM.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  16. - Top - End - #226
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Okona had a cool costume, that's the only thing I truly remembered about this episode!
    Also really great hair!
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    Watch me draw and swear at video games.

  17. - Top - End - #227
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By Bellevue, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 2 Episode 5
    Loud as a whisper
    Stardate: 42477.2-42479.3

    [Plot]
    the crew have gone to pick up the diplomat, Riva. Riva is deaf but is tied telepathically with 3 individuals who are the scholar - a man, the warrior - a man, the balance - a woman. they are his chorus, speaking at different times based on Riva wishes to say.

    the crew go to the warring planet so Riva can do his work. riva does do dinner with troi. on the planet, riva starts the meeting but the chorus are killed and then riva goes into despair.

    data learns to understand sign language and so there is a bit of talk as troi works to get the negotiations going again and treat riva. Riva can teach them sign language as the two sides are learning about each other.

    the crew leave as Picard thanks troi for her efforts.

    [Rating]
    4 - Good episode: A few parts of the episode are above average - good plot points, clever use of effects and so on.

    {Episode Commentary}
    i thought this episode was pretty good, almost a 5, but there are some things that frustrate me. The scene with Dr. P talking with Geordi about his eyeballs and stuff feels out of place. Then there is the fact that Sign Language has become unknown somehow.

    This annoys me. Given the number of people who knew sign language at the time (Also, the actor playing Riva is Deaf), I found it too unbelievable that Sign language, any of those languages, would have become so unknown. It almost suggests that you wouldn't find deaf people in the Federation.

    Which is not something that sounds good to consider.

    Data learns it quickly and is able to translate for Riva. It will take time for the others to do the same, and I can't help but wonder how that would go. It would make for a nice little story.

    An interesting bit of story lore is that the Klingons didn't have a word for "Peacemaker". That is pretty interesting.

    Then we have history in how Riva helped with negotiating between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. The exact pathway that led to the better relations goes through some variation, thanks to Star Trek 6 and some other episodes.

    Personally, I think that there were probably multiple instances of talks beyond Star Trek 6, and that there would have been a need for further talks on different subjects, so Riva was probably involved. We also know that Curzon Dax was too, and probably Spock. After all, just the starting stuff in Star Trek 6 would also include further discussions on a range of matters probably.

    The other part that I didn't like was the DR.P with Geordi. I don't know that we needed a scene about if Geordi could get replacement eyes. Especially with how DR.P is quick to suggest a replacement over Geordi's visor. Implants or actually repairing his system such that Geordi would be able to see, like what happens on Baku in the Star Trek Insurrections movie where Geordi's eyes regenerate.

    Is this to suggest that the idea of people having traits like deafness or blindness things that the Federation no longer likes to accept in its citizens? That apparently there are no deaf members of the crew? That Picard doesn't know what Riva is doing and calls it "Gestural Language"? When there should a record about Sign Language, which Data learns from, that he could have looked over, after knowing that Riva is Deaf?

    What is this saying about the Federation? No disabled people around? Or did the writers just have one of their flumphs and end up getting some basic bit of science/physics/history/etc wrong?

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

    Trackers)
    Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 1 ()
    Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
    Hidden Gems: 3
    Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 (marc alaimo plays a romylan here)
    Rank of Miles: Ensign
    Prime Directives: 2
    Patrick Stewart Speech: 3 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
    Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
    Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
    Pithy Aesops: 1
    Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
    Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
    Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
    Actually Alien Aliens: 1
    Lore's Appearances: 1
    *Data's Emotions: 2
    *Troi Troubles: 1
    *Money Matters: 1
    Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
    1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
    2)Dr. P verbally belittles Data or treats him with contempt: 2
    3) Dr. P acts and treats Data like some fancy shmancy tool device that needs to be put into its proper place.: 1.5
    4) Dr. P acts racist towards Data:
    5) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:
    Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
    Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!

    My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
    (Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)

  18. - Top - End - #228
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    This annoys me. Given the number of people who knew sign language at the time (Also, the actor playing Riva is Deaf), I found it too unbelievable that Sign language, any of those languages, would have become so unknown. It almost suggests that you wouldn't find deaf people in the Federation.
    Now I want to see the hearing aid version of the VISOR
    "If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins

    Omegaupdate Forum

    WoTC Forums Archive + Indexing Projext

    PostImage, a free and sensible alternative to Photobucket

    Temple+ Modding Project for Atari's Temple of Elemental Evil

    Morrus' RPG Forum (EN World v2)

  19. - Top - End - #229
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Now I want to see the hearing aid version of the VISOR
    Spoiler: Like this?
    Show

  20. - Top - End - #230
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    i thought this episode was pretty good, almost a 5, but there are some things that frustrate me. The scene with Dr. P talking with Geordi about his eyeballs and stuff feels out of place. Then there is the fact that Sign Language has become unknown somehow.

    This annoys me. Given the number of people who knew sign language at the time (Also, the actor playing Riva is Deaf), I found it too unbelievable that Sign language, any of those languages, would have become so unknown. It almost suggests that you wouldn't find deaf people in the Federation.

    Is this to suggest that the idea of people having traits like deafness or blindness things that the Federation no longer likes to accept in its citizens? That apparently there are no deaf members of the crew? That Picard doesn't know what Riva is doing and calls it "Gestural Language"? When there should a record about Sign Language, which Data learns from, that he could have looked over, after knowing that Riva is Deaf?
    It's possible they cured congenital deafness and also developed other systems in place for developmental deafness which removed. Especially given the development of the universal translator*, which presumably would not work with gestural-based languages, and world unification favoring breaking down of language barriers. I don't see a huge issue with this.

    *I have major issues with the universal translator.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  21. - Top - End - #231
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It's possible they cured congenital deafness
    IIRC there's a Voyager episode where they mention being able to do some gene tweaking to prevent a spinal deformity, so this is likely.

  22. - Top - End - #232
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Yeah, I feel like Geordi's blindness is meant to be a fairly unusual case of a person who has a handicap that isn't dealt with at birth and had to find a technological work around. Heck, even in Star Trek IV, Doctor McCoy is able to cure a kidney dialysis patient in like 20 minutes by giving her a pill from his medkit. Medical science in by the Next Gen is really just supposed to be THAT advanced that almost no one is handicapped anymore.

    Technically, that's disability erasure, but it also is totally appropriate for a pro-science utopia 400 years in the future.

    Anyway, considering the number of times that Geordi's VISOR technology was the key to saving the day (which I can probably count on one hand, but it's honestly amazing it happened more than once), everyone should be glad that he was born blind.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    Watch me draw and swear at video games.

  23. - Top - End - #233
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By Bellevue, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 2 Episode 6
    The Schizoid Man
    Stardate: 42437.5-42437.7

    [Plot]
    the crew go to help one Ira graves who is dying, and also famous. he knew dr soong. he puts his mind in data before he dies. so data acts as graves does.

    graves didn't realize how strong data is and then graves doesn't handle his feelings towards his assistant well.

    picard talks with graves, things are solved.

    The_Schizoid_Man_(episode) - if you want a full deal of the episode

    [Rating]
    4 - Good episode: A few parts of the episode are above average - good plot points, clever use of effects and so on.

    {Episode Commentary}
    i don't like the character of ira graves for what he tries to do to data. that said there is some tremendously good acting by brent spiner portraying graves-in-data.

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

    Trackers)
    Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 1 ()
    Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
    Hidden Gems: 3
    Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 (marc alaimo plays a romylan here)
    Rank of Miles: Ensign
    Prime Directives: 2
    Patrick Stewart Speech: 3 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
    Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
    Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
    Pithy Aesops: 1
    Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
    Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
    Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
    Actually Alien Aliens: 1
    Lore's Appearances: 1
    *Data's Emotions: 2
    *Troi Troubles: 1
    *Money Matters: 1
    Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
    1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
    2)Dr. P verbally belittles Data or treats him with contempt: 2
    3) Dr. P acts and treats Data like some fancy shmancy tool device that needs to be put into its proper place.: 1.5
    4) Dr. P acts racist towards Data:
    5) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:
    Last edited by russdm; 2021-09-08 at 04:59 AM.
    Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
    Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!

    My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
    (Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)

  24. - Top - End - #234
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Yeah, I feel like Geordi's blindness is meant to be a fairly unusual case of a person who has a handicap that isn't dealt with at birth and had to find a technological work around.
    TOS had another blind person (guest-starring) with a technological workaround (Miranda Jones, in the season 3 Is There In Truth Now Beauty? episode)- that was basically akin to sonar, making it impossible for her to pilot a starship, since she couldn't see things that were on viewscreens.

    So there's already precedent for Geordi's situation.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  25. - Top - End - #235
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    I like any episode where Brent Spiner gets to act with a different personality, because he's great at it.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    Watch me draw and swear at video games.

  26. - Top - End - #236
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Then there is the fact that Sign Language has become unknown somehow.

    This annoys me. Given the number of people who knew sign language at the time (Also, the actor playing Riva is Deaf), I found it too unbelievable that Sign language, any of those languages, would have become so unknown. It almost suggests that you wouldn't find deaf people in the Federation.

    Which is not something that sounds good to consider.
    As KillianHawkeye and Peelee said, it's likely that deafness is extremely uncommon due to utopian improvements in medical tech. Without sparking a real-world politics debate, I'd guess that some members of the Deaf community didn't/don't like the implications of that presentation.

    I watched this episode several years ago, before my first (very enlightening) personal interaction with the Deaf community. I only remember snippets ("Speak directly to me!" is a really good scene in this episode, reinforcing how Deaf people also want to be spoken to rather than through their translator), but I felt like they came through pretty well and did the concept justice.

    Between this and Children of a Lesser God being released within a year or two of each other, was there a big push for discussing Deaf issues in the 80s that I'm too young to know about?

  27. - Top - End - #237
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Season 2 Episode 5It almost suggests that you wouldn't find deaf people in the Federation.

    Which is not something that sounds good to consider.
    Are you implying that the federation is purging the disabled? That sounds more like the evil parallel universe version of the federation from Mirror Mirror

    I'm pretty sure the main federation just has super advanced medicine
    "If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins

    Omegaupdate Forum

    WoTC Forums Archive + Indexing Projext

    PostImage, a free and sensible alternative to Photobucket

    Temple+ Modding Project for Atari's Temple of Elemental Evil

    Morrus' RPG Forum (EN World v2)

  28. - Top - End - #238
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By Bellevue, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Season 2 Episode 7
    Unnatural Selection
    Stardate: 42494.8

    [Plot]
    the crew are heading to space station india for some important thing. Picard discusses Dr.P and then the crew receive a distress call from the USS Lantree. Going to that ship, they discover that the crew has aged rapidly and died. The crew set the Lantree to send out a quarantine warning. While they go to investigate what happened after the crew visited "Darwin Research Center".

    The crew head to the research center where they discover some experiments of a genetic nature to improve humans. The scientists at the research center treated a member of the Lantree crew for a disease. Then, the research center scientists then had tweaked some children to make them telepathic and telekinetic and other improvements. the scientists at the research center have been experiencing rapid aging as well. They blame the Lantree.

    It turns out that the research scientists also included putting in some advanced or better human body immune system. Which is highly aggressive that also attacks various viruses and anything at all. Which is what happened when the Lantree was treated with a disease. That ended up causing the problems.

    So, Dr.P has found out this, and then the crew work to lower her age back to normal. That takes some work, but Chief Miles O'Brien had an idea. With help from Picard, Miles works to come up with the working solution. The crew are able to do that. Miles beams up the Doctor and makes the attempt, which works.

    The crew head back to the Lantree and proceed to destroy it so no other ship will be affected by what happened.

    [Rating]
    4 - Good episode: A few parts of the episode are above average - good plot points, clever use of effects and so on.
    &
    2 - Poor episode: Not too bad but has one or two week areas (Poor plot, weak character use, bad effects)

    {Episode Commentary}
    The second rating is solely on the special effects to show the aging on Dr.P which is tremendously bad looking. The other characters with the aging special effects, the people at the Darwin Research Center, are all older slightly and the special effects are less "gorny". Dr.P looks like as she aged that someone stretched her face out and added in some fat pockets. It just looks terrible, not the least bit realistic. Then with Dr.P being a main character, it means we get some serious looks at the terrible makeup choices. Some people are age nicely when they get older, and it is possible that Dr.P could have been one of those.

    The makeup effects are just about as bad for Dr.P as for what happened with Admiral Jameson last season. Just considerably bad. It just looks completely bizarre and really terrible. Even worse, because they (Crew/Production) made the casting choices to make the Darwin Research Center Scientists older and with less un-realistic looking age effects, it just makes it more noticeable for Dr.P. So while everyone else affected by the aging don't look that bad in their appearance, Dr.P ends up with big honking "Old fat person" makeup.

    Aside from the above bad special effects, the rest of the plot works fairly well. It is mainly about the unintended side effects and dangers of experimenting with human beings. Like the augments, which were Khan and friends. In this case, the scientists made their kids a little dangerous.

    Considering that later material would make it clear that genetic experimentation and manipulation are things illegal in the Federation, it kinda ruins some of the plot here. That being how the actions taken at the Darwin research center are illegal under later material. Which is bit of a funny thing.

    So, the main issue was that the kids' were given a better immune system. that makes it difficult for them to ever leave the center, since they are basically plague bearers. They can't live with anybody else because their immune system will end up attacking the others around them without it. It is not something that the research center scientists considered, and while the beaming solution works, it is only a temporary fix.

    The solution of using a transporter means that you would have to set up everyone and everything to constantly being beamed up and down again when one of the Darwin kids are anywhere not in their controlled environment. So, basically have made them completely unsafe for anybody around.

    This, along with the Augments, are pretty clear cases for why tampering with Human Genetics or whatever, are dangerous. There was no intention to make it so the Lantree crew died, but that is the result, and the scientists were actually working against trying to have that. But, it still happened. So, they, the scientists, won't be able to do much really, and have some difficulty with their kids. Then, the kids are going to be basically stuck at Darwin for their lives, at least until a fix can made that doesn't have their immune systems attacking others.

    Dr.P had a brush with death, and while it makes her be a little mean to Data, given the situation, I won't hold it against her. It will only add a few in, and it is all on the shuttle craft while Dr.P is dealing with one of the Darwin kids and doing examinations. That makes me give her a pass in this episode, especially since it is the only moments that she is and she is more going on about her mortality and Data's near immortality. Her comments are not intended to hurt in my opinion, or more accurately, she is not facing her own death in a short time. I think we can cut her some slack.

    Miles: So, Miles gets a name, has two gold pips, and addressed as being the Transporter Chief. He has gone from a bit person to a recurring cast member and we will get to see him some more. That is pretty good.

    So, the next episode, is another one of the best episodes, another hidden gem, in my opinion.

    So? Do fellow playgrounders agree? Disagree? Comments of your own? Get some discussing going on

    Trackers)
    Gene Roddenberry ruins Star Trek: 1 ()
    Redshirts Actually wearing a Redshirt Deaths: 1
    Hidden Gems: 3
    Funny Guest Star Appearances: 2 (marc alaimo plays a romylan here)
    Rank of Miles: Ensign, Two Gold Pips (Is this Lt.?)
    Prime Directives: 2
    Patrick Stewart Speech: 3 (Did I miss an earlier one? I don't think so)
    Riker "Patrick Stewart Speech": 1
    Riker Romances Something/Someone: 1
    Pithy Aesops: 1
    Klingon Proverbs/Beliefs/Sentiments: 1) Drink not with thine enemy; A) Several in the Episode, "Heart of Glory";
    Worfed (Worf loses to establish danger): 2
    Holodeck Mishaps/Breakings/Issues: 1
    Actually Alien Aliens: 1
    Lore's Appearances: 1
    *Data's Emotions: 2
    *Troi Troubles: 1
    *Money Matters: 1
    Polarize the Phase Inverters: 1
    1) Dr. P is mean to Data: 2
    2)Dr. P verbally belittles Data or treats him with contempt: 2
    3) Dr. P acts and treats Data like some fancy shmancy tool device that needs to be put into its proper place.: 1.5
    4) Dr. P acts racist towards Data:
    5) Dr. P does what she does to Data and NO ONE calls her out on her disrespectful behavior towards an officer of Starfleet that has been commissioned:
    Last edited by russdm; 2021-09-09 at 11:44 AM.
    Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
    Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!

    My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
    (Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)

  29. - Top - End - #239
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Feb 2015

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Star Trek has a history of bad aging effects. Did they ever pull it off well?

  30. - Top - End - #240
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New kids in the class. Let's watch and discuss, Star Trek: The Next Generation

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    Star Trek has a history of bad aging effects. Did they ever pull it off well?
    Spoiler: later TNG episodes
    Show
    I thought old Noonien Soong was done pretty well. Took me awhile to catch on that it was Brent Spiner too!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •