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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    It'd honestly be pretty dumb to integrate all three heads into one prototype, both from a design standpoint and a movie making standpoint. You can only make one Mechagodzilla that way, when you should at very least expect the first one to fail and teach you important lessons on what you need to do to improve the second one. Mecha is grand fodder for a sequel, as long as they don't pretend (badly) that he's a surprise. (Although the level of stupidity required to recreate something that went rogue like that would be impressive, it's hardly out of character for this franchise.)

    Honestly it would be hilarious if they built him two more times and he took on the traits of the other heads. Put old righty in, and it just becomes raw, unfocused aggression. Then put lefty in, and it just wanders off to bird watch and the evil human overlord just hangs his head in disappointment.

    Of course, we may not get any sequels. Toho sounds like they're pulling a Sony: they can't make money on it, so they let someone else use the license; the other guys make a pile of cash on the license and now Toho wants its ball back.
    San/Kevin is the head they used this time.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    San/Kevin is the head they used this time.
    THAT was Kevin? Slow, disinterested, chilled Kevin? Holy carp. I can't imagine what Mecha would be like with Ichi's focus or Ni's bloodlust.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    So, finally got to watch this, and yeah...it was fun. Smart? Hah, no, but look, this movie advertised exactly what it was. Big Monster go smash.

    And yknow? That's okay. I can forgive some insane grabbing of the idiot ball by most of the humans in the film, because ultimately, they're not the thing we're mostly there to see. The actual fights look pretty awesome, at least in the theater. Probably worth seeing on the big screen instead of the small, there's no shortage of actually good CG for the fights.

    I'm also happy that this is an actually money making movie, so the theaters are doin' a bit better, and maybe studios will feel confident about releasing the films they've been holding back. Even if you hate this movie, finally getting to see all the other films that have been stalled for a year, well, that's a big win.

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    I like the whole hollow earth conceit. It's a hearking back to the pulpy adventure roots of these sorts of things. It's something they can explore later, without having to be overly constrained by any sort of realism, because this really isn't the sort of universe that considers carefully the realistic consequences of changes. It's less hard sci fi, and more a pulpy romp.

    I do agree that, had the bad guys not been so blindingly stupid, they might have had a point. Godzilla almost died previously, and was again threatened in this film. If in both films a plucky band of requisite human heroes hadn't performed kaiju CPR, welp, no Godzilla, with a resulting grizzly fate for humanity.

    Yeah, Godzilla is obviously set up as humanity's protector, but even given that, it's a dangerous world, with who knows how many more titans out there somewhere. This movie being profitable, I'm gonna guess quite a few. Having actual weapons, rather than just firing stuff that mostly just gets the monster attention enough for it to kill you....well, that seems obvious. So, they could have been extremely sane and well justified, but Apex approached everything in as stupidly evil a fashion as they could. Oh well.

    I just wish I could figure out how such stupid people routinely manage to amass such wealth, power, and technology. Seems to be something of a trope at this point, and it honestly doesn't make that much sense.


  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    In both cases where Godzilla was in serious help and needed saving by humans, other less smart humans are directly responsible for ****ing him up. So... yeah, while it is true we may need defenses of our own, we don't REALLY need them straight away.

    Also with regards to "how do stupid people get so much money", well... take like half a second to look at some of the richest people on Earth. You'll have your answer.


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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Having argued against Apex's goals, I'm going to flip a bit here - arguably, if you're thinking about defenses, one thing that you should take into account is the reasonable possibility that other, more short-sighted humans are going to interfere with Godzilla trying to show how cool they are.

    In that sense, anti-Titan defenses, especially ones that can work in tandem with friendly Titans, are a good idea. I'd be willing to bet that if you were willing to work slowly and carefully, you could even build those without pissing Godzilla off. One thing you would want to have is a way to power down your systems when the big lizard comes over to see what's going on, to make it clear that they're not trying to threaten him. Another thing you would want is not to use any parts of any Titan alpha, especially one that nearly killed him.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Having argued against Apex's goals, I'm going to flip a bit here - arguably, if you're thinking about defenses, one thing that you should take into account is the reasonable possibility that other, more short-sighted humans are going to interfere with Godzilla trying to show how cool they are.

    In that sense, anti-Titan defenses, especially ones that can work in tandem with friendly Titans, are a good idea. I'd be willing to bet that if you were willing to work slowly and carefully, you could even build those without pissing Godzilla off. One thing you would want to have is a way to power down your systems when the big lizard comes over to see what's going on, to make it clear that they're not trying to threaten him. Another thing you would want is not to use any parts of any Titan alpha, especially one that nearly killed him.
    Considering that the thing that seems to attract Godzilla to the Mecha was a noise that the Mecha was making when not in active use, it's entirely possible that Ghidorah was conscious the entire time and doing it on purpose.

    The obvious thing to do would be to make small-scale weapons—ships and planes and the like, at most something like the Gotengo or the Supah X, that can be used to drive off or kill lower-level titans and provide support to Godzilla and his posse against bigger Titans. Don't actively hunt Titans out, just short of shoot at them if they start approaching human cities in a way that seems threatening and there's no sign of Big G showing up to stop them before they make landfall.

    And preferably should be capable of something that Godzilla would recognize as a sign of submission just in case.

    Maybe, maybe, once Big G gets used to having support from human-made machines, then you can scale up to a Mecha. Maybe something like Mogura.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Having argued against Apex's goals, I'm going to flip a bit here - arguably, if you're thinking about defenses, one thing that you should take into account is the reasonable possibility that other, more short-sighted humans are going to interfere with Godzilla trying to show how cool they are.

    In that sense, anti-Titan defenses, especially ones that can work in tandem with friendly Titans, are a good idea. I'd be willing to bet that if you were willing to work slowly and carefully, you could even build those without pissing Godzilla off. One thing you would want to have is a way to power down your systems when the big lizard comes over to see what's going on, to make it clear that they're not trying to threaten him. Another thing you would want is not to use any parts of any Titan alpha, especially one that nearly killed him.
    Honestly I think it's that particular end fact that made Godzilla as mad as it did. Ghidorah making the ORCA sound is what pissed him off, not this disingenious take I've seen elsewhere that "Godzilla was jealous of us building a titan to replace him". He can clearly work together with people, he's smart.

    I'm 100% in agreement that if we built something to protect against Titans but also work WITH Godzilla, specifically, he wouldn't mind, and would totally get it. At worst, if he makes an intimidation display at our Mogera or Jet Jaguar, just have it take the knee. Make it clear he is the boss and we're assisting. It's that simple.


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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    on the subject of building titans, how about a genetically engineered "Zilla" that was intended to be a human-side titan, but a whole lot of stuff went wrong and the prototype got out. It's smaller, frailer, and lacks atomic breath, but faster, stealthier, and capable of reproducing to give the humans something to fight as well.

    Maybe it's mostly made up of mundane animals or dinosaur DNA similar to that dinosaur from Jurassic World, but with a small bit of Godzilla DNA giving it the same rough body plan as Godzilla.

    Being 100% serious here. #PutZillaInTheMonsterverse
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    It'd honestly be pretty dumb to integrate all three heads into one prototype, both from a design standpoint and a movie making standpoint. You can only make one Mechagodzilla that way, when you should at very least expect the first one to fail and teach you important lessons on what you need to do to improve the second one. Mecha is grand fodder for a sequel, as long as they don't pretend (badly) that he's a surprise. (Although the level of stupidity required to recreate something that went rogue like that would be impressive, it's hardly out of character for this franchise.)

    Honestly it would be hilarious if they built him two more times and he took on the traits of the other heads. Put old righty in, and it just becomes raw, unfocused aggression. Then put lefty in, and it just wanders off to bird watch and the evil human overlord just hangs his head in disappointment.

    Of course, we may not get any sequels. Toho sounds like they're pulling a Sony: they can't make money on it, so they let someone else use the license; the other guys make a pile of cash on the license and now Toho wants its ball back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    San/Kevin is the head they used this time.
    Okay Rater, I need some clarification since I'm guessing you have the novelization. You said all three of Ghidorah's heads were recovered and they used San for Mecha-Godzilla, right? Which would mean you're referring to the heads from the battle in Boston when Godzilla went nuclear I imagine. So do they explain what happened to the San head that the ecoterrorists bought from the fishermen or is it still at large? And does that mean there's an Ichi and Ni head still kicking about somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Honestly I think it's that particular end fact that made Godzilla as mad as it did. Ghidorah making the ORCA sound is what pissed him off, not this disingenious take I've seen elsewhere that "Godzilla was jealous of us building a titan to replace him". He can clearly work together with people, he's smart.
    Not the ORCA sound, Ghidorah was making his alpha call, the one that roused all the Titans from hibernation and set them to hibernating. It wasn't even the ORCA noise which Godzilla had no issue with, it was Ghidorah making his presence as the False King known in a 'I'm still going to supplant you' way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    on the subject of building titans, how about a genetically engineered "Zilla" that was intended to be a human-side titan, but a whole lot of stuff went wrong and the prototype got out. It's smaller, frailer, and lacks atomic breath, but faster, stealthier, and capable of reproducing to give the humans something to fight as well.

    Maybe it's mostly made up of mundane animals or dinosaur DNA similar to that dinosaur from Jurassic World, but with a small bit of Godzilla DNA giving it the same rough body plan as Godzilla.

    Being 100% serious here. #PutZillaInTheMonsterverse
    Legitimately, the problem with Zilla was entirely the fact she was nothing like Godzilla in theme, appearance (kinda), or abilities. It was the disrespect to Godzilla by Tristar that makes Zilla so reviled but...yeah, there's nothing WRONG with Zilla as a monster. Its fantastic threat for human characters in a Titan filled world and could make a great nemesis for Kong in the Hollow Earth for example, just don't pretend that Zilla is Godzilla, that's what riles people up, lol.
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    Legitimately, the problem with Zilla was entirely the fact she was nothing like Godzilla in theme, appearance (kinda), or abilities. It was the disrespect to Godzilla by Tristar that makes Zilla so reviled but...yeah, there's nothing WRONG with Zilla as a monster. Its fantastic threat for human characters in a Titan filled world and could make a great nemesis for Kong in the Hollow Earth for example, just don't pretend that Zilla is Godzilla, that's what riles people up, lol.
    Oh yeah for sure. Just make sure they're separate entities and one isn't passing for the other, maybe give Zilla a new name or something, and i don't see why it wouldn't be okay.

    I could even see the "People think it's Godzilla" thing being parodied or subverted in some way. Zilla's origin was a mutated Komodo Dragon egg, and Komodo's are land (albeit island) based reptiles. So perhaps this incarnation is designed as an inland creature rather then an oceanic one, so it escapes far from the ocean where people haven't seen Godzilla firsthand. So those people might be understandably confused and think it's Godzilla for a bit before being proven wrong in some hilarious way like the real Godzilla showing up, or the main character calling them an idiot.

    Honestly i don't even care if she dies like she did in that one animation against Godzilla, i just think it'd be fun to have her included. Maybe one of her kids escapes and gets taken in by humans to mimic the cartoon spinoff of Zilla's movie, and that offspring could have a future role of some kind.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    I could see Zilla working as a Godzilla-side version of Kong's Skull Crawlers. Not as dangerous as a full-on titan, possibly something a properly equipped/trained human faction could combat, but pack focused and coordinated in a way that they'd be very dangerous for a Titan to take on solo. Give them a need for a alpha but an inability to accept Godzilla, so that any time a potential rival alpha shows, the Zillas are quick to follow - unlike most titans that need to have alpha status proven before they listen. Then the humans can do something other than trip up Godzilla and then attempt to fix their own mistakes while Godzilla focuses on the actual job.

    I could even see the name Zilla working for similar reasons to real life:
    Scientist: I call it Zilla.
    Assistant: Why not Godzilla 2, or Godzilla junior, or...?
    Scientist: We made this, Carl. We made this. I see no god here.

    or

    Military General: (After seeing a Zilla for the first time.) Have you ever seen such a godless creation in your life...?

    Yeah, it would still count as humans cleaning up their own messes, but I would prefer human involvement to sometimes take forms beyond "I'm doing something stupid", "Thirteen hundred honorable servicemen and women just died ignominious deaths because you wanted to take a big monkey to the south pole" and definitely "For some reason our director thinks cribbing off Michael Bay for our human sideplots will make us relatable rather than irritatingly pointless".

    As for Mechagodzilla, I have to admit, thinking about it, that using Kevin as your prototype makes sense. All footage (movie clips) we've seen of Ghidorah show Kevin being unfocused and the last to take offensive action. It would be sensible to assume that, of the three potential heads, he would be the most likely to be docile, even controllable. If nothing else, the least likely to create trouble if it's even possible to create trouble. Then you remember that even the least aggressive side of Ghidorah is still Ghidorah, and thus still clever, cruel, and very very evil, and you realize that entire thing was doomed from the start.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    I wouldn't mind seeing humanity building it's own Jaeger or growing its own monster with the actual objective of supporting and helping Godzilla during his fight, and that going very wrong.

    Would make more sense than just insisting on fighting King Arthur after he proved he can cut off both your arm and your right leg.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Both of those sound really cool actually, i could definitely see a situation where Zilla (or Zillas, depends) were originally intended as a "Hold them off" measure until Godzilla or some other freindly titan / jeager / force arrived. if a portal in spacetime opens up in Nevada and lets out a giant Kaiju, Godzilla isn't going to be there right away. Zillas are faster and more agile though, and could get there and keep the thing distracted long enough for the big guns to show up. As is traditional in media though, something goes horribly wrong.

    At the same time though, i wouldn't be opposed to a fully benevolent Zilla like in the old Zilla cartoon series. Perhaps save that for a second movie though, first one sets up Zilla(s) as a thing, second one has one of the young grow up to be a protector of a small area similar to Kong and Skull island or something.

    Assuming Zilla is man-made via genetic tinkering, i would hope that they'd also be able to show the science in a positive light as well somehow through the film. Perhaps the company that made Zilla also made various antibiotics and plague or environment resistant plants / animals that can help combat climate change. Maybe if Zilla was made with a small bit of Godzilla's DNA, they can use he information they got from that to help Godzilla recover from a bad wound, like quickly re-grow or re-attach an arm or something. idk, the science doesn't get enough positive representation IMO, so having some of that would be nice.
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  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Godzilla vs Kong

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    In both cases where Godzilla was in serious help and needed saving by humans, other less smart humans are directly responsible for ****ing him up. So... yeah, while it is true we may need defenses of our own, we don't REALLY need them straight away.

    Also with regards to "how do stupid people get so much money", well... take like half a second to look at some of the richest people on Earth. You'll have your answer.
    This is a setting in which betting on all the other humans to be smart is, well, not great odds. Maybe someone in your city will do something blitheringly idiotic.

    This isn't really "humans are innocent" cause that's not how the setting is portrayed, but there's substantial good human vs bad human sideplot going on in these. If you're in such a world, you've got to expect that humanity isn't going to always do the smart thing. So, you need weapons capable of plastering whatever titans they wake up or build or attract. Or at least contributing.

    Godzilla honestly doesn't seem at all bothered by humanity using weapons against other titans. He only gets a bit annoyed when they shoot at him, which is kind of fair.

    The human side plots are definitely the weakest part of these films.

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