Loki (2021)

[understatement]

I don't know if anyone did a thread yet, so here's the official trailer for Loki that dropped today:



It looks...pretty neat, honestly. If they do anything from Journey into Mystery or Agent of Asgard, I'd be absolutely thrilled. Those were some of my favorite comic stories.

[Ramza00]

Thinking of these inks from My Drag Brunch with Loki (2019) while watching the trailer.

Spoiler: No spoilers, no dialogue boxes, only an image.

Show

[Dire_Flumph]

I'm not wild about resetting Loki back to where he was in 2012 (or Gamora for that matter), but I've enjoyed the D+ Marvel series enough to give this one some trust, and I'm sure Tom Hiddleston will be entertaining.

[Palanan]

So this is the new, new, new Loki trailer.

It's certainly a little meatier than the previous ones, and I like the fact that they'll be addressing the issue of branch and alternate timelines--although I hope this will mean more clarification rather than ever-greater muddling.

I don't mind an alternative Loki, since the mainstream Loki isn't available. Tom Hiddleston is Tom Hiddleston, so this should be some quality fun.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Maybe this is just the usual Marvel fiddling with scenes to make the trailer but it sounds like the TVA is blaming Loki for the mucking around with the timestream the Avengers did.

[Thomas Cardew]

I'm a little wary. It looks interesting and I'm far more... not quite excited... but anticipatory for this than I am for any other Marvel D+ show. But I'm reminded of Legends of Tomorrow and that's not a good thing. Multiple timeline controlling agencies are hard to get right and can fall into nonsense and farcical messes really fast.

[Rynjin]

I'm a little wary. It looks interesting and I'm far more... not quite excited... but anticipatory for this than I am for any other Marvel D+ show. But I'm reminded of Legends of Tomorrow and that's not a good thing. Multiple timeline controlling agencies are hard to get right and can fall into nonsense and farcical messes really fast.

...That's not a good thing? Legends of Tomorrow (season 2 onward) is the best thing the CW has made in a looong time. It is by far the most "comic-y" of the comic book stuff that has been made for TV/streaming.

[Cikomyr2]

...That's not a good thing? Legends of Tomorrow (season 2 onward) is the best thing the CW has made in a looong time. It is by far the most "comic-y" of the comic book stuff that has been made for TV/streaming.

Pretty much. I mean, each of Marvel's series is their take on a specific genre. Loki is going to be their take at the Time Travel Hijinx genre, which is more established now than ever.

Marvel ain't exactly trailblazers, except for franchise management.

[Dire_Flumph]

...That's not a good thing? Legends of Tomorrow (season 2 onward) is the best thing the CW has made in a looong time. It is by far the most "comic-y" of the comic book stuff that has been made for TV/streaming.

I mean, I understand in principle there are people that don't want to watch a giant Demon fight a giant talking Teddy Bear, but I certainly do. Agree that Season 1 was kind of dull in comparison though. Doom Patrol has also done a great job carrying that brand of madness forward.

[Psyren]

I'm not wild about resetting Loki back to where he was in 2012 (or Gamora for that matter), but I've enjoyed the D+ Marvel series enough to give this one some trust, and I'm sure Tom Hiddleston will be entertaining.

They're not completely reset. Gamora got the rundown on what she missed from GoodNebula, the sister she always wanted. And Loki is getting it from authority figures that have studied his entire life. The important thing, in both cases, is that they believe the folks who tell them about the people they became that first go-round.

Does that mean character-wise they'll both end up exactly where their prime timeline versions ended up, no - but the capacity for character development that led both of them to where they got to is still there. That's all that is needed for their journeys in this iteration to feel organic, credible, and end somewhere north of total villain, just like they did the first time through.

Maybe this is just the usual Marvel fiddling with scenes to make the trailer but it sounds like the TVA is blaming Loki for the mucking around with the timestream the Avengers did.

The Avengers didn't muck around though, they returned the stones to where and when they found them. I'm guessing Loki didn't, and that's what got their attention.

Come to think of it - his Tesseract hasn't made an appearance in any of the trailers. Keep in mind that that thing was powerful enough to make a Captain Marvel. Did he... lose it? Did the TVA confiscate it?

Pretty much. I mean, each of Marvel's series is their take on a specific genre. Loki is going to be their take at the Time Travel Hijinx genre, which is more established now than ever.

Marvel ain't exactly trailblazers, except for franchise management.

Not seeing the issue. Yes, they're taking a proven formula and applying their IP to it, and the interconnectedness of that attracts audiences who might otherwise skip it. That's a good thing, it means we can get interesting takes on these genres that don't wither on the vine of obscurity the way they might have if they weren't Marvel.

[Kitten Champion]

Honestly, this is probably the hardest show to do outside of WandaVision. Like WandaVision, this is a very weird concept in general. Also, it's a story where the central protagonist is also kind of villainous - or in this case explicitly villainous - and that's not easy to write for in a very general audiences kind of way. However, when you break down what makes Loki work as a character they've clearly come up with ideas to deal with some of those hurdles.

First, make it Cosmic -- this is something Ragnarok proved pretty convincingly to me, that the Thor side of the MCU needs to be big, colourful, and full of loud strangeness. The series concept they've got here is beyond the space opera sphere of the Guardians of the Galaxy kind of-cosmic and into the most cosmic cosmic-Marvel, like The Living Tribunal-kinds of nonsense. Also, making it this level of cosmic means they don't have to make space-ship sets and models if they want to go somewhere like with GotG, creating something closer to a Doctor Who.

Then, Loki is an anarchic Supervillain/anti-hero, obviously, but with that you need some motivation for him to act and something to act against that works within that concept. Now, that's usually been Thor, then Hela, then Thanos... briefly. So, what do you do? Give him a cosmic police agency to screw with and be screwed over by, apparently. I'm sure there's more to it when we get into it, but yeah, it's a power dynamic he can work within that we can relate to which can also serve to push him forward as a character, but at the same time he can also push back against it.

Lastly - and somewhat related to the above - you have Owen Wilson. Going back to sort of basic screenwriting stuff, but Loki's your villain-protagonist and has been described concisely as a diva, you really need someone to play against his larger-than-life personality and shenanigans. Owen Wilson is good at playing low-key chill guy with an unassuming presence, something both pretty opposite to Loki's own temperament but also something he hasn't really dealt with. At the same time, Wilson's disarming folksiness can be grating - I mean, intentionally so - which opens him up more give-and-take with Hiddleston rather than someone more authoritative like Anthony Hopkin's Odin was.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Rynjin
Legends of Tomorrow (season 2 onward) is the best thing the CW has made in a looong time.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Comparing something to anything on CW is a very, very low bar.

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
I mean, I understand in principle there are people that don't want to watch a giant Demon fight a giant talking Teddy Bear, but I certainly do.

Put me in the “not now, not ever” category for that.

I made it through the first episode of Doom Patrol, no need to even think about it ever again.

Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
Also, making it this level of cosmic means they don't have to make space-ship sets and models if they want to go somewhere like with GotG, creating something closer to a Doctor Who.

Not sure I see the distinction here. Are you saying it’s more cost-effective because they’re building fewer sets, versus grand CGI spectacles?

[Tyndmyr]

Put me in the “not now, not ever” category for that.

I made it through the first episode of Doom Patrol, no need to even think about it ever again.

I slogged through like three episodes. It doesn't get any better. Not sure why I did that, other than being very bored inside with the pandemic. I kinda get the whacky style they were going for, but in practice, it just felt....really rough.

[Cikomyr2]

Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Comparing something to anything on CW is a very, very low bar.



Put me in the “not now, not ever” category for that.

I made it through the first episode of Doom Patrol, no need to even think about it ever again.



Not sure I see the distinction here. Are you saying it’s more cost-effective because they’re building fewer sets, versus grand CGI spectacles?

Cool. So you won't be watching Loki if you clearly hate the entire premise from the get go.

[Mordar]

My only major concern is Owen Wilson playing Owen Wilson pretending to be in a MCU property.

Other than that, the franchise has built enough credit with me that I'll forgive goofy timecop hijinks (and if they are done well, so much the better).

- M

[Psyren]

My only major concern is Owen Wilson playing Owen Wilson pretending to be in a MCU property.

I don't see an issue here either. It worked like gangbusters for Jeff Goldblum.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't see an issue here either. It worked like gangbusters for Jeff Goldblum.

Goldblum wasn't a major protagonist character, though. He was more of an extended cameo, whereas Wilson will be front and center for the entire run of the series if he's a co-protagonist alongside Hiddleston.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
Cool. So you won't be watching Loki if you clearly hate the entire premise from the get go.

Entirely false, and obviously not what I said.

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Not sure why I did that, other than being very bored inside with the pandemic. I kinda get the whacky style they were going for, but in practice, it just felt....really rough.

Pretty much the same here. It was clunky in every way, especially the extremely forced X-Men parallel. Not even Alan Tudyk could make it remotely appealing.

Originally Posted by Mordar
My only major concern is Owen Wilson playing Owen Wilson pretending to be in a MCU property.

This didn’t stand out as a problem to me. Owen Wilson is kind of like those Quaker rice cakes that you can cover with peanut butter. The rice cake is still there, but it’s the peanut butter you notice. I’m expecting that’ll be the case with Tom Hiddleston.

And if we’re lucky, we’ll get a genuinely fun dynamic between Rice Cakes and Big Bendy Horns. Over in the Falcon and Winter Soldier, the anti-buddy dynamic is one of the most enjoyable things about the show. With an actor of Tom Hiddleston’s calibre, I’m looking forward to something similar in Loki.

[Mordar]

I don't see an issue here either. It worked like gangbusters for Jeff Goldblum.

If only they would have called him something...anything...other than Grandmaster

I like Owen Wilson as Owen Wilson pretending to be a Space Cowboy...or a Regular Cowboy Trainrobbing Sidekick. Maybe I'll like him here, but I don't think so. Part of the fun to guess and then find out if I'm right, knowing full well it is a tiny snapshot of the show.

- M

[Eldan]

Also, Goldblum is actually a good actor. I can't think of a role where I ever enjoyed Wilson much.

[Psyren]

If only they would have called him something...anything...other than Grandmaster

All I can say is that the vast majority of the movie audience loved him in that role. Maybe it ticked off some of the more hardcore comic fans, but eh.

Goldblum wasn't a major protagonist character, though. He was more of an extended cameo, whereas Wilson will be front and center for the entire run of the series if he's a co-protagonist alongside Hiddleston.

Even if this assessment of his role* turns out to be true, so what? Loki is clearly meant to be more of a comedic hijinks show than, say, WandaVision was. I expect that Owen Wilson Owen Wilson-ing it up in a MCU property is precisely what a sizeable chunk of the audience will be there to see. So again I ask, what's the problem?

*Personally I think "co-protagonist" will be a bit of a stretch. He'll be Loki's handler, the guy who drags him in to TVA to grumpily tell him he's a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules before turning him loose on his next assignment anyway. Well, more bemused than grumpy most likely, but still.

[Kitten Champion]

Not sure I see the distinction here. Are you saying it’s more cost-effective because they’re building fewer sets, versus grand CGI spectacles?

Pretty much. It's relatively common on genre television for that reason - Sliders, Stargate, Once Upon a Time (who directly lifted the portal effect from Doctor Strange for it's later seasons when they used to use relatively expensive ones), the Transporters in Star Trek were made for this reason, and others that I can't think of at the moment - and like with the TARDIS you don't need to spend the money displaying space travel when "woosh woosh" and you open the door to another planet/time period.

[The Glyphstone]

All I can say is that the vast majority of the movie audience loved him in that role. Maybe it ticked off some of the more hardcore comic fans, but eh.



Even if this assessment of his role* turns out to be true, so what? Loki is clearly meant to be more of a comedic hijinks show than, say, WandaVision was. I expect that Owen Wilson Owen Wilson-ing it up in a MCU property is precisely what a sizeable chunk of the audience will be there to see. So again I ask, what's the problem?

*Personally I think "co-protagonist" will be a bit of a stretch. He'll be Loki's handler, the guy who drags him in to TVA to grumpily tell him he's a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules before turning him loose on his next assignment anyway. Well, more bemused than grumpy most likely, but still.

For me? Its not. The only movie I've ever seen Wilson in was Shanghai Noon, and I liked it. But if someone doesn't like Owen Wilson, then having him be a major character in Loki is a bigger drawback than someone who doesn't like Jeff Goldblum having him be a prominent cameo in Ragnarok.

[Anteros]

Not liking what I've seen so far. In general I'm pretty burnt out on Marvel, but Loki was always a favorite so I was willing to give it a try, but Owen Wilson is incapable of playing any role except Owen Wilson, so that's a major drawback right out of the gate. I'll never understand why Hollywood insists on casting actors that can't act. It's fine for a buddy-cop movie with Jackie Chan, but not something you want me to take seriously. Hiddleston is also starting to show his age a bit.

Overall it looks like it somehow take itself too seriously while simultaneously being too campy. I'll give it a try, but I'm not optimistic.

[Ramza00]

Hear me out. Loki and Picard cross over. Q torturing Loki, while Picard repairs the timelines.

[Cikomyr2]

I just don't understand this

In general I'm pretty burnt out on Marvel

And this

I'll give it a try, but I'm not optimistic.

In the same post.

Don't watch it then. You just said you are burn out on Marvel, why not just give yourself a pause and just wait until the season ends so you can check if it's worth your time, or you might just get even more tired of Marvel?

You are doing a disservice to a show if you force yourself to watch it while you aren't excited for it, while you are tired of its genre and you outright claim you don't like what the trailer showed you so far. THESE ARE ALL THE FLAGS MAN. Don't watch it.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I just don't understand this


And this



In the same post.

Don't watch it then. You just said you are burn out on Marvel, why not just give yourself a pause and just wait until the season ends so you can check if it's worth your time, or you might just get even more tired of Marvel?

You are doing a disservice to a show if you force yourself to watch it while you aren't excited for it, while you are tired of its genre and you outright claim you don't like what the trailer showed you so far. THESE ARE ALL THE FLAGS MAN. Don't watch it.

Second this. Find something you want to do and do that instead. It’s entertainment, not groceries; you can put it off as long as you want. Odds are the show will still be there in six months, with the added bonus that you’d have the option of binge-watching it if you decide you want to watch it then.

[Cikomyr2]

Yes. It's extremely healthy to not consume stuff you aren't excited about, and forcing yourself on entertainment do you a disservice first and foremost.* you aren't going to be less burned out of Marvel if you have to continuously force feed it to yourself.

Enjoy anything else, and come back to it when you get the crave (and the benefit of people telling you to skip Show X).


*exception may be with certain hobbies, like crafting, painting, drawing, where a depressive state might discourage you from actively engage with your hobby that could provide you with an actually beneficial creative outlet. But thats active entertainment, compared to passive entertainment like TV, movies, podcasts)

[BloodSquirrel]

Don't watch it then. You just said you are burn out on Marvel, why not just give yourself a pause and just wait until the season ends so you can check if it's worth your time, or you might just get even more tired of Marvel?

You are doing a disservice to a show if you force yourself to watch it while you aren't excited for it, while you are tired of its genre and you outright claim you don't like what the trailer showed you so far. THESE ARE ALL THE FLAGS MAN. Don't watch it.

Counterpoint: Spoilers and participating in the public conversation about it.

If something is going to turn out to be good, it's generally better not to miss the bus on those things. If you didn't see the Mando S2 right away, and you spend any amount of time on the internet, the ending has almost certainly been spoiled for you, and if you wanted to talk about, you've missed the best time to do so.

Of course, the upside is that you can wait to hear the general buzz on how it ends before getting excited about a strong start. I skipped Wandavision, thinking I'd watch it when it was all out, but after catching wind of how it ended, I decided not to bother.

[Cikomyr2]

Counterpoint: Spoilers and participating in the public conversation about it.

If something is going to turn out to be good, it's generally better not to miss the bus on those things. If you didn't see the Mando S2 right away, and you spend any amount of time on the internet, the ending has almost certainly been spoiled for you, and if you wanted to talk about, you've missed the best time to do so.

Of course, the upside is that you can wait to hear the general buzz on how it ends before getting excited about a strong start. I skipped Wandavision, thinking I'd watch it when it was all out, but after catching wind of how it ended, I decided not to bother.

Spoilers and conversation about a show you are not interested in and forcing yourself to watch?

I get a lot of people like being linked with the rest of pop culture and "living the moment" with the rest of the community.. but.. it's like forcing yourself to watch baseball just because you want to have something to talk with your father.