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Thread: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-09, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Gridania, Eorzea
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Re: Loki (2021)
Randomish speculation:
I'm wondering if there's not something outside the red lines that the founder of the TVA is hiding from, and that time lines aren't getting purged just because they're different, but because they're going to draw attention to the core timeline and thus the TVA founder. Hence the lack of their presence in the TVA, if even your underlings can't find you, how can anyone else?
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2021-07-09, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
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Re: Loki (2021)
I think the Sacred Timeline doesn't actually mean it can't exist alongside the Multiverse so much as it makes sure that those timelines all go in linear directions that don't result in branches that just spread in all sorts of directions. The sacred timeline isn't so much a single plant as it is a garden. There are multiple plants in the garden and each one needs it's branches pruned to keep the whole garden tidy.
So you can have a universe where Loki is born female or a crocodile, but they each need to follow their own scripts or they become variants. There is only one acceptable timeline with a female Loki and only one acceptable timeline with a crocodile Loki.
At the very least I think that is what the TVA was told about it. That all being a lie is still very much possible or even likely.Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2021-07-09 at 11:25 AM.
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2021-07-09, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
All this works too. See? Imagination. Creativity. Qualities that should not be difficult to employ.
Your logic and reasoning have no place here!
If you expect every work of speculative fiction to spoonfeed you every last detail of every what-if scenario while refusing to do any mental labor of your own, you're going to have a bad time.
*Applauds*Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-07-09, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
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2021-07-09, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Gender
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2021-07-09, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Orlando, FL
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Re: Loki (2021)
I'll agree. It would get awkward if you could jump to any point in "time" within the TVA, like to it's founding and mess with it, or see who did create the organization. Seems like the creator would want to prevent that possibility.
As an aside, I don't know that Sylvie knows how time works in the TVA anyway. She didn't seem to know that her magic was useless.
LOL, that's hilariously silly and now my headcanon. :3
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2021-07-09, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Location
- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-09, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Washington, USA
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Re: Loki (2021)
The truth is, there are still several things we, as the audience, don't know yet. These may be revealed in the last episode, or possibly put off until next season.
1.) We don't know why Sylvie was declared a variant. Renslayer says she doesn't remember, but the smug way she said it suggested she might be lying. But either way, we don't have an answer. Sylvie herself hinted it was because she was a woman, but again, we don't know that for sure.
2.) We don't know what caused the Nexus event on Lamentis-1. Mobius suggested it was because two Lokis cared about each other, but I don't know if that's actually true or just a wild guess on his part.
3.) We don't know the purpose of the Sacred Timeline. The Timekeepers (or rather, whoever is behind them) clearly has an agenda and is deliberately leading the timeline in a specific direction; but to what end, we don't know.
So there's really no reason to get heated over arguments surrounding these things, because we really don't know for sure yet what the answers are for any of them.
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2021-07-09, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
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2021-07-10, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Loki (2021)
I'm reminded ot Time City, by Diana Wynne Jones. The premise is not dissimilar, with the titular city sitting outside the regular time stream with an enforcement agency who makes sure that "Unstable Eras" stay on track. Like the TVA, the residents consider themselves superior to the denizens of the regular timeline.
At one point, someone corrects the protagonists on this. Of course Time City is an Unstable Era, and is in fact the most unstable of them all!
Wouldn't surprise me if we got something like that for the TVA. Outside the Time Stream? Piffle! The TVA can make variants just like anyone else! And with nobody looking for them there, what better place to hide out? And time travel is perfectly possible in the TVA, if you know the trick...
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2021-07-10, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
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Re: Loki (2021)
I didn't get the impression that whatever stops Loki and Sylvie's magic from working within the TVA was the fact that it exists outside of time. It seemed like an unrelated security measure. Like "The TVA exists outside of time (because of course it has to), and also your magic doesn't work here LMAO (because reasons)".
The point being that they could be entirely unrelated aspects of whatever dimension the TVA exists in. Like, obviously any extra-dimensional authority that has to deal with potentially magical beings would want to secure its base of operations with antimagic protections.
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2021-07-10, 01:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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- Knoxville Tennessee
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Re: Loki (2021)
So I have a thought about the gator loki thing. Say that Gator Loki lives on a timeline where literally everyone is an animal but otherwise all the events of the movies and the shows play out exactly the same. It follows the arc of the "sacred timeline" even if the pieces are made of a different material then the ones over in the MCU, so is it still the sacred timeline or is it not?
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2021-07-10, 01:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-10, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-10, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2016
Re: Loki (2021)
Why oh, why did they cast Owen Wilson! God I loathe him. Don't want spoilers but does he get a lot of screen time?
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2021-07-10, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-10, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-07-10, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- material & internet plane
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2021-07-11, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
Re: Loki (2021)
Anyone else see a faint parallel (or maybe just a nod) to Peter Pan in episode 5?
In another realm there is a child leader finding and recruiting 'lost' people while being hunted by a tyrant who gets his hand bit off by an alligator.
Regardless the endless betrayals in that scene was a hoot!
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2021-07-11, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2020
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2021-07-12, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2020
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2021-07-13, 04:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
Re: Loki (2021)
Finally caught up after forgetting to watch Episode 5. It's fine, I guess. There's about 3 characters I like in this show, and all three were in this episode, so I guess I don't have many complaints aside from that one overly-long shot blanket scene.
I will say, though, that this weird hang-up over the crocogator is pretty baffling. It's probably not meant to be scrutinised or bickered over, is all.
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2021-07-13, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
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- England
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Re: Loki (2021)
I have to say, although there are a number of weak points in this series the strong points are VERY strong.
In particular, I was mesmerized by Richard E Grant's turn as Classic Loki. He was on screen for about 20 minutes of a single 50 minute episode, and everything he did was wonderful. The snarky witticisms, the tragedy of his past failings and his realisation of them, until finally his redemption in the face of death. An entire poignant character arc from start to finish, squeezed in between jokes about crocodiles and sci-fi babble? I loved it.
Also, it was pointed out to me later; when Classic Loki is raising the image of Asgard, listen to the music - it's a slow, but very recognisable version of Ride of the Valkyries. Such a great little touch that I might never have spotted, and now I kind of want to go back to episode 1 an just listen to the music again for other similar references.
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2021-07-13, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2020
Re: Loki (2021)
I have to stop reflexively open this thread on Wednesday mornings after new updates.
Three weeks in a row I spoiled myself.
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2021-07-13, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
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Re: Loki (2021)
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2021-07-13, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-13, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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Re: Loki (2021)
What I hope to see tonight as a post credit scene (links to someone’s fan art / photoshop )
https://twitter.com/ElainaCScott/sta...652006912?s=20Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-07-14, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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Re: Loki (2021)
Finale: Mind. Blown.
That is all.
SpoilerJM absolutely killed it!Last edited by Psyren; 2021-07-14 at 02:50 AM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-07-14, 03:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2020
@Patt
Spoiler: Bleep bloop!"People are ideas." :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:
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T_P_T
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2021-07-14, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- On my Liset
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Re: Loki (2021)
Glad you guys enjoyed it.
Spoiler: E6: For all time. Always.
I won't say disliked it, it was just ... fine, I guess? That's always the risk with these sort of mystery-based series, there's the chance the reveal won't quite live up to your expectations. And I will emphasise that below is all my personal taste, so if you thought it was fantastic more power to you!
So:
- Really, the series was just a set up to Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania
- The TVA, the Time-keepers and the Sacred Timeline: I think this is where my (mild) dissatisfaction stems from. Essentially, most of what has been said previously was correct. There was a multiverse, there was a multiversal war, and the TVA was created to prune timelines to avoid a future war. The founding idea was to prevent anarchy, and not for any (say) "personnel gain". The only thing that really changed was that HWR/Kang was the person ultimately in charge, and his variants were the cause of the war. I guess I expected a bigger reveal that would overturn a lot of the stated premise, when really only a few detailed were changed.
- He Who Remains/Kang - didn't quite jive with JM's performance, he felt a bit too erratic. Will be interesting to see how he portrays Kang, who presumably will be a lot more .. grounded.
- I felt like there was a lot of dead air in this episode that could have been trimmed, in particular with the exploration of the manor. And Loki & Sylvie felt extremely passive during the exposition.
- The Kiss - well now I will say I did smile at this part (and not in a creep way I swear!)
- Mobius and B-15 - disappointing that essentially all their character development has been wiped away by whatever happened to the TVA ... but on the other hand, it does give us an excellent chance to reconnect with the characters in season 2.
- Ravonna and changed Kang!TVA - on that note about the TVA. I'm guessing whatever Ravonna did when she stepped through the portal was the cause of the TVA's "change in leadership" - but I'm not sure why HWR would get her to do that.
- Also interesting that the timeline appeared to be circular ... very interesting implications.