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Thread: Loki (2021)

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Randomish speculation:

    I'm wondering if there's not something outside the red lines that the founder of the TVA is hiding from, and that time lines aren't getting purged just because they're different, but because they're going to draw attention to the core timeline and thus the TVA founder. Hence the lack of their presence in the TVA, if even your underlings can't find you, how can anyone else?
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    I think the Sacred Timeline doesn't actually mean it can't exist alongside the Multiverse so much as it makes sure that those timelines all go in linear directions that don't result in branches that just spread in all sorts of directions. The sacred timeline isn't so much a single plant as it is a garden. There are multiple plants in the garden and each one needs it's branches pruned to keep the whole garden tidy.

    So you can have a universe where Loki is born female or a crocodile, but they each need to follow their own scripts or they become variants. There is only one acceptable timeline with a female Loki and only one acceptable timeline with a crocodile Loki.

    At the very least I think that is what the TVA was told about it. That all being a lie is still very much possible or even likely.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2021-07-09 at 11:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    If Loki's purpose is as Mobius described - bring misery, death, destruction, and chaos so that others can become better - then he hardly needs opposable thumbs at all. Since he never wins, it doesn't matter how he challenges the heroes, only that he does challenge the heroes. Maybe in that universe, the Battle for New York was on track to be the Avengers versus Megagator.

    Now I have a proposal: "The loki-gator ate the wrong cat" story is actually a downplayed version of Loki taking the Tesseract from the Flerken from Captain Marvel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    That is the single fact that you are most misunderstanding. There are only parallel timelines. That is what has been shown in every explanation. Just look at how the Time Keepers are portrayed by Miss Minutes in episode 1. The different strands all run together. The sacred timeline twists, bends, and flows like a river. It has eddies or gaps in the middle, and hazy spots on the edges, like water splashing on the riverbank. When a line starts to get too not parallel, it gets pruned. We know now they aren't diverting it back into the main timeline. They're just cutting it off. They can cut off "bad" timelines because it isn't just one single universe that they're editing until it's right. It's a multitude of parallel universes and they only have to intervene when they're wrong. Normally, that is really wrong. There is some amount of wiggle room in the sacred timeline. We even have this reinforced in episode 4, 8 minutes 35 seconds in, when Mobius comments that the magnified nexus threshold they're using "should be setting off alarms if someone steps on the wrong leaf," meaning they have a adjustable range of allowed variance energy.
    Your logic and reasoning have no place here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Now, yes, through the awesome powers of imagination and doing the writers' job for them,
    If you expect every work of speculative fiction to spoonfeed you every last detail of every what-if scenario while refusing to do any mental labor of your own, you're going to have a bad time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Bull.

    The propaganda video we see of the timekeepers creating the sacred timeline, shows them weaving different threads into a single cable.

    The sacred timeline is not a universe. The sacred timeline is a set of events that all universes must follow. It doesn't matter if it's frog Thor and gator Loki doing those events, not anymore than it matters that rocket raccoon is a goddamn raccoon. All that matters is that the broad strokes lead the universe along the timeline as plotted.

    We've been trying to explain this to you since episode 2. It's not the show is ignoring itself, it's that you are failing to understand the show.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    I think the Sacred Timeline doesn't actually mean it can't exist alongside the Multiverse so much as it makes sure that those timelines all go in linear directions that don't result in branches that just spread in all sorts of directions. The sacred timeline isn't so much a single plant as it is a garden. There are multiple plants in the garden and each one needs it's branches pruned to keep the whole garden tidy.

    So you can have a universe where Loki is born female or a crocodile, but they each need to follow their own scripts or they become variants. There is only one acceptable timeline with a female Loki and only one acceptable timeline with a crocodile Loki.

    At the very least I think that is what the TVA was told about it. That all being a lie is still very much possible or even likely.
    I disagree, in that Frogthor/Lokigator's "sacred path" would have to be the same as tim hiddleson's path... more or less. And while that would seem to be impossible... well, they were both pruned, so something didnt work out right for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    I disagree, in that Frogthor/Lokigator's "sacred path" would have to be the same as tim hiddleson's path... more or less. And while that would seem to be impossible... well, they were both pruned, so something didnt work out right for them.
    I didn't say they didn't so that isn't so much disagreeing as it is adding onto the idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    I think that "time works differently in the TVA" was meant to shut down any idea of applying time travel to the TVA itself.
    I'll agree. It would get awkward if you could jump to any point in "time" within the TVA, like to it's founding and mess with it, or see who did create the organization. Seems like the creator would want to prevent that possibility.

    As an aside, I don't know that Sylvie knows how time works in the TVA anyway. She didn't seem to know that her magic was useless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    ...and lokigator ate THAT?
    LOL, that's hilariously silly and now my headcanon. :3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I'll agree. It would get awkward if you could jump to any point in "time" within the TVA, like to it's founding and mess with it, or see who did create the organization. Seems like the creator would want to prevent that possibility.

    As an aside, I don't know that Sylvie knows how time works in the TVA anyway. She didn't seem to know that her magic was useless.




    LOL, that's hilariously silly and now my headcanon. :3
    Now I wondering if Lokigater still has a tesseract in his belly or did TVA remove it?

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    The truth is, there are still several things we, as the audience, don't know yet. These may be revealed in the last episode, or possibly put off until next season.

    1.) We don't know why Sylvie was declared a variant. Renslayer says she doesn't remember, but the smug way she said it suggested she might be lying. But either way, we don't have an answer. Sylvie herself hinted it was because she was a woman, but again, we don't know that for sure.

    2.) We don't know what caused the Nexus event on Lamentis-1. Mobius suggested it was because two Lokis cared about each other, but I don't know if that's actually true or just a wild guess on his part.

    3.) We don't know the purpose of the Sacred Timeline. The Timekeepers (or rather, whoever is behind them) clearly has an agenda and is deliberately leading the timeline in a specific direction; but to what end, we don't know.

    So there's really no reason to get heated over arguments surrounding these things, because we really don't know for sure yet what the answers are for any of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    ...and lokigator ate THAT?
    When the only tool you have is a gator, every problem looks like a snack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I'll agree. It would get awkward if you could jump to any point in "time" within the TVA, like to it's founding and mess with it, or see who did create the organization. Seems like the creator would want to prevent that possibility.

    As an aside, I don't know that Sylvie knows how time works in the TVA anyway. She didn't seem to know that her magic was useless.
    I'm reminded ot Time City, by Diana Wynne Jones. The premise is not dissimilar, with the titular city sitting outside the regular time stream with an enforcement agency who makes sure that "Unstable Eras" stay on track. Like the TVA, the residents consider themselves superior to the denizens of the regular timeline.

    At one point, someone corrects the protagonists on this. Of course Time City is an Unstable Era, and is in fact the most unstable of them all!

    Wouldn't surprise me if we got something like that for the TVA. Outside the Time Stream? Piffle! The TVA can make variants just like anyone else! And with nobody looking for them there, what better place to hide out? And time travel is perfectly possible in the TVA, if you know the trick...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    As an aside, I don't know that Sylvie knows how time works in the TVA anyway. She didn't seem to know that her magic was useless.
    I didn't get the impression that whatever stops Loki and Sylvie's magic from working within the TVA was the fact that it exists outside of time. It seemed like an unrelated security measure. Like "The TVA exists outside of time (because of course it has to), and also your magic doesn't work here LMAO (because reasons)".

    The point being that they could be entirely unrelated aspects of whatever dimension the TVA exists in. Like, obviously any extra-dimensional authority that has to deal with potentially magical beings would want to secure its base of operations with antimagic protections.
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    So I have a thought about the gator loki thing. Say that Gator Loki lives on a timeline where literally everyone is an animal but otherwise all the events of the movies and the shows play out exactly the same. It follows the arc of the "sacred timeline" even if the pieces are made of a different material then the ones over in the MCU, so is it still the sacred timeline or is it not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    So I have a thought about the gator loki thing. Say that Gator Loki lives on a timeline where literally everyone is an animal but otherwise all the events of the movies and the shows play out exactly the same. It follows the arc of the "sacred timeline" even if the pieces are made of a different material then the ones over in the MCU, so is it still the sacred timeline or is it not?
    Classic Loki was considered fine by the TVA all the way up until after his "death." Why not Croki?
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Classic Loki was considered fine by the TVA all the way up until after his "death." Why not Croki?
    Because he had to eat that cat. Otherwise, Croki was legit.

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    Why oh, why did they cast Owen Wilson! God I loathe him. Don't want spoilers but does he get a lot of screen time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosnoop110 View Post
    Why oh, why did they cast Owen Wilson! God I loathe him. Don't want spoilers but does he get a lot of screen time?
    Yes for first two episodes, but less after that.
    He has to introduce Loki to premise of being a buddy cop. Granted, Loki is big on doing his own thing so you'll see Loki more by himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Because he had to eat that cat. Otherwise, Croki was legit.
    My point exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosnoop110 View Post
    Why oh, why did they cast Owen Wilson! God I loathe him. Don't want spoilers but does he get a lot of screen time?
    He's a fairly major character so, I dunno, squeeze your eyes shut during his scenes or skip?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosnoop110 View Post
    Why oh, why did they cast Owen Wilson! God I loathe him. Don't want spoilers but does he get a lot of screen time?
    He has quite a sizeable screen time and he's again playing as himself. I didn't find him as bad as I expected though, if that helps.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Anyone else see a faint parallel (or maybe just a nod) to Peter Pan in episode 5?

    In another realm there is a child leader finding and recruiting 'lost' people while being hunted by a tyrant who gets his hand bit off by an alligator.

    Regardless the endless betrayals in that scene was a hoot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erys View Post
    Anyone else see a faint parallel (or maybe just a nod) to Peter Pan in episode 5?

    In another realm there is a child leader finding and recruiting 'lost' people while being hunted by a tyrant who gets his hand bit off by an alligator.

    Regardless the endless betrayals in that scene was a hoot!
    .... I mean..

    ... Oh ****.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Sure thing! Let me take a second to use this mystical thing I have called imagination for just a second.

    One easy way that Alligator!Loki can cause the Avengers is by no longer being an alligator by the time the Battle of New York rolls around, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years after he was born. You know, because magic, and gods.
    Or the avengers are animals too and NYC looks different because it's build and inhabited by sentient animals.

    When they climb into their hideout there's actually Frog-Thor in a jar trying to reach the hammer.

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    Finally caught up after forgetting to watch Episode 5. It's fine, I guess. There's about 3 characters I like in this show, and all three were in this episode, so I guess I don't have many complaints aside from that one overly-long shot blanket scene.

    I will say, though, that this weird hang-up over the crocogator is pretty baffling. It's probably not meant to be scrutinised or bickered over, is all.

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    I have to say, although there are a number of weak points in this series the strong points are VERY strong.

    In particular, I was mesmerized by Richard E Grant's turn as Classic Loki. He was on screen for about 20 minutes of a single 50 minute episode, and everything he did was wonderful. The snarky witticisms, the tragedy of his past failings and his realisation of them, until finally his redemption in the face of death. An entire poignant character arc from start to finish, squeezed in between jokes about crocodiles and sci-fi babble? I loved it.

    Also, it was pointed out to me later; when Classic Loki is raising the image of Asgard, listen to the music - it's a slow, but very recognisable version of Ride of the Valkyries. Such a great little touch that I might never have spotted, and now I kind of want to go back to episode 1 an just listen to the music again for other similar references.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy View Post
    I will say, though, that this weird hang-up over the crocogator is pretty baffling. It's probably not meant to be scrutinised or bickered over, is all.
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    I have to stop reflexively open this thread on Wednesday mornings after new updates.

    Three weeks in a row I spoiled myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Also, it was pointed out to me later; when Classic Loki is raising the image of Asgard, listen to the music - it's a slow, but very recognisable version of Ride of the Valkyries. Such a great little touch that I might never have spotted, and now I kind of want to go back to episode 1 an just listen to the music again for other similar references.
    I appreciated that touch. Nothing says "pompous and powerful" like Wagner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I have to stop reflexively open this thread on Wednesday mornings after new updates.
    I added a phone reminder to stay out of this thread until I've seen the episode tomorrow evening. ^^

    I'd love to see a series of shorts where each episode focuses on a specific Loki variant before the TVA gets them.
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    What I hope to see tonight as a post credit scene (links to someone’s fan art / photoshop )

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    Finale: Mind. Blown.

    That is all.

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    JM absolutely killed it!
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-07-14 at 02:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyren View Post
    finale: Mind. Blown.

    That is all.

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    jm absolutely killed it!
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    Glad you guys enjoyed it.

    Spoiler: E6: For all time. Always.
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    I won't say disliked it, it was just ... fine, I guess? That's always the risk with these sort of mystery-based series, there's the chance the reveal won't quite live up to your expectations. And I will emphasise that below is all my personal taste, so if you thought it was fantastic more power to you!
    So:
    • Really, the series was just a set up to Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania
    • The TVA, the Time-keepers and the Sacred Timeline: I think this is where my (mild) dissatisfaction stems from. Essentially, most of what has been said previously was correct. There was a multiverse, there was a multiversal war, and the TVA was created to prune timelines to avoid a future war. The founding idea was to prevent anarchy, and not for any (say) "personnel gain". The only thing that really changed was that HWR/Kang was the person ultimately in charge, and his variants were the cause of the war. I guess I expected a bigger reveal that would overturn a lot of the stated premise, when really only a few detailed were changed.
    • He Who Remains/Kang - didn't quite jive with JM's performance, he felt a bit too erratic. Will be interesting to see how he portrays Kang, who presumably will be a lot more .. grounded.
    • I felt like there was a lot of dead air in this episode that could have been trimmed, in particular with the exploration of the manor. And Loki & Sylvie felt extremely passive during the exposition.
    • The Kiss - well now I will say I did smile at this part (and not in a creep way I swear!)
    • Mobius and B-15 - disappointing that essentially all their character development has been wiped away by whatever happened to the TVA ... but on the other hand, it does give us an excellent chance to reconnect with the characters in season 2.
    • Ravonna and changed Kang!TVA - on that note about the TVA. I'm guessing whatever Ravonna did when she stepped through the portal was the cause of the TVA's "change in leadership" - but I'm not sure why HWR would get her to do that.
    • Also interesting that the timeline appeared to be circular ... very interesting implications.


    Last edited by thatSeniorGuy; 2021-07-14 at 07:54 AM.
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