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Thread: Loki (2021)

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Ramza, I don't know why you keep insisting (however flowery your rhetoric)
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    that I don't think HWR should die. I do. Where I side more with Loki than Sylvie is that "stab now, think later" is not much of a plan. That's all I'm saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Ramza, I don't know why you keep insisting (however flowery your rhetoric)
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    that I don't think HWR should die. I do. Where I side more with Loki than Sylvie is that "stab now, think later" is not much of a plan. That's all I'm saying.
    I am tired of you thinking Sylvie has not thought about this her entire life. Telling women you just need to think more to your satisfaction is a bad look.

    One last bit.

    Spoiler: Wolf's Ears
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    Come on.
    Wait... If you leave this tent, you'll end up like them. What do you see?
    I see a scheme, and in that scheme, I see myself.
    We have a saying in Asgard, "Where there are wolf's ears, wolf's teeth are near."
    It means to be aware of your surroundings.
    Which is absurd, because my people are, by nature, gullible fools.
    A trait that I, the God of Mischief, exploited time and time again simply by listening.
    My teeth were sharp, but my ears even sharper.
    We're running out of time, Mobius.
    Hold it.
    Just give him a chance.
    You remind me of them.
    The Time Variance Authority and the gods of Asgard, one and the same.
    Drunk with power, blinded to the truth.
    Those you underestimate will devour you.
    You underestimate me, just as you underestimate this lesser Loki.
    Which is why, you walk into one wolf's mouth after another.
    Two units.
    He is wasting our time.
    Okay.
    Come on, Loki, make a long story short.
    We need to look for C-20.
    That's exactly what the Variant wants you to do. It's a trap.
    He's waiting for you outside this tent.
    Should I secure the reset charges?
    No.
    He wants me.
    I'm the key to his plan.
    He knows that I'm stronger.
    Almost one unit.
    And he rightly believes that together we can overthrow and rule the TVA.
    But that's not what I want.
    I have a new purpose.
    I'm a servant of the Sacred Timeline.
    And knowing what I now know about his tactics, I can deliver you the Variant, but I need assurances.
    Yeah?
    Assurances that I won't be completely disintegrated the moment the job has been done.
    Right...
    We'll need to speak to the Time-Keepers at once.
    They're in graver danger than we realized.
    He's lying.
    Just playing games.
    There's no one out there.
    Reset the timeline.
    You had me for a second.
    My ears are sharp too.
    Just a reminder asking He Who Remains to "demonstrate X" is to ask He Who Remains to be an (evil) Demon of Rene Descartes.

    If this sounds like gibberish think about the etymology of the word demonstrate

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/demonstrate

    De- the prefix means to "Point Out" or "I show". It can also be thought of "I Prove" / "I Test"

    and the rest of the word the "Monstrate" comes from Monstrum which means "divine omen, wonder" but is also the origin of the word Monster.

    There can be no proof with He Who Remains that is not inherently suspect. You have to decide a theological answer, are you "satisfied" with what is when you enter that room with your sword or are you not satisfied. As soon as your back is turn He Who Remains will kill you just like he killed all his other Variants and anything else that challenged him prior, for that is his nature. Of course he has the capability to change, but he has created a time circle to prevent change so why would he suddenly change now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I am tired of you thinking Sylvie has not thought about this her entire life. Telling women you just need to think more to your satisfaction is a bad look.
    My disagreement has no connection to her gender if you reversed the two positions
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    I would still be on the side that wants to take a minute and think before stabbing.

    Sylvie having thought about this her entire life is irrelevant, they have just been presented with new information in the last few minutes. You're allowed to digest new information before acting; that's all Loki wanted. Maybe even the chance to ask a few more questions so they can prepare.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    My disagreement has no connection to her gender if you reversed the two positions
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    I would still be on the side that wants to take a minute and think before stabbing.

    Sylvie having thought about this her entire life is irrelevant, they have just been presented with new information in the last few minutes. You're allowed to digest new information before acting; that's all Loki wanted. Maybe even the chance to ask a few more questions so they can prepare.
    Time is Space, Space is Money, Space is Change.

    Spoiler: Wolf's Ears
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    There is a reason why I linked the similar scene with Loki, B-15, and Mobius.

    Time is Space, Space, is Money, Space is Change. Newtonians physics does not work here for anyone can go do a time portal and get reinforcements, or change the nature of your reality and you wouldn't know it.

    For example Miss Minutes interacted with Loki and Sylvie and then she time traveled back into the past and influenced Ravonna. And due to that or unrelated to that we have a new TVA.

    Likewise we know the Lokis themselves can create solidified illusions and so on. A fact that is emphasized on Episode 2 where the solidified illusions are called "Duplication Casting" and some gobbly **** about holographic mirrors. The mere act of taking a minute to think changes the nature of the environment, which changes the nature of the space, which creates possibility of time loops.

    -----

    If we take the show seriously by its own rules Sylvie had to act or introduced risk into the gambit. Likewise taking time to think is introduced a parallel but different risk into the gambit. No one is able to tell which risk is greater or less, it is immeasurable. Yet you emphasizing she choose wrongly means you do not understand this or you think she made the wrong choice.

    Why do you need to feel such energy to say Sylvie choose wrong? I have already explained my thought process and why she had a duty to act. Why are you so counter-motivated?
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    You're making a number of assumptions here. For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
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    For example Miss Minutes interacted with Loki and Sylvie and then she time traveled back into the past and influenced Ravonna. And due to that or unrelated to that we have a new TVA.
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    You don't know that her departure led to a new TVA, even the one we saw; that is an assumption. It could just as well be that the new TVA we saw was due to the branches that resulted from Sylvie's stab. We just don't know what her departure meant or where that new TVA came from.


    Similarly,

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
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    If we take the show seriously by its own rules Sylvie had to act or introduced risk into the gambit. Likewise taking time to think is introduced a parallel but different risk into the gambit. No one is able to tell which risk is greater or less, it is immeasurable.
    This is also an assumption, based on... nothing I can see. The closest we get to time pressure is
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    the timelines starting to branch, which they will do anyway (and much faster in fact) once the guy is stabbed, making the scenario moot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
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    Why do you need to feel such energy to say Sylvie choose wrong? I have already explained my thought process and why she had a duty to act. Why are you so counter-motivated?
    Spoiler: Duty
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    I posit that she had a duty to learn more about the repercussions before acting, or at least more about Kang and his variants. Why did this one end up winning? How did he alone find and control Alioth? What sorts of abilities does he possess? What's the deal with Miss Minutes? He said all of him were born sometime in the 31st century, can we narrow that down?

    Just as Loki said, this is too big to get wrong. Maybe you arrive at "stab the guy anyway" and there is truly no alternative, but I'm willing to trust Loki's sense motive - and more importantly, his ability to ferret out secrets - to a degree here.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    I repeat the word demonstrate from earlier. You want to be shown that all the augury possibilities will lead to something of your satisfaction.

    That is an impossible ask.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I repeat the word demonstrate from earlier. You want to be shown that all the augury possibilities will lead to something of your satisfaction.

    That is an impossible ask.
    Nothing is possible if you don't even try, sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Nothing is possible if you don't even try, sure.
    Yes it is an impossible ask.

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    In television the more you tell or show a viewer the more you can create a suspension of disbelief similar to Uncanny Valley. This is due to us having multiple types of attention in our brain operating simultaneously and an over abundance of information changes the ratio of types of attention we engage. For example we either become more critical and looking for faults, or we do the opposite extreme and we just enjoy the ride. Different people have different preferences, likewise we have different preferences at different ages, and different preferences when we are hungry, stressed, or we were show X immediately prior and it primes our attention. (This is why recaps can make macguffins really obvious on purpose.)

    We do not know all the mechanics of the TVA and that is okay. Likewise He Who Remain has limits and that is why he created this vile system that he does. He defeated his opponents (if his story is true) not by predicting the actions via divine omen but using the gas monster, as a giant WMD to kill all realities besides one. Likewise after that reality it began to split and he is fine with other realities as long as he can predict them to a limited extent, but his predictions have limits thus he must prune all the other realities continuously. Yet eventually nexus branches occur and new realities are form making the TVA job’s harder.

    The closest thing to a god admits he is not all knowing, he also admits he is not all good quite the opposite. He is also not all powerful only via weaponizing the monster via time travel can he get some of his power. It can be argued not knowing how the gas monster works is a good thing much like how technology is good but would reality be better without A or H bombs, it can be argued.

    You are never going to get your “Aleph point” from which to view of all infinity, with absolute knowledge (The Aleph.) Risk and fortune will always exist, likewise infinite knowledge belongs to the infinity and knowledge can not be separate from experience and thus experience as an individual. A person who has been on the run her entire life has become a survivor for she knows not to linger and be tempted by fake knowledge that may get her killed.

    —————

    The fortune of all will always be in flux. That is the nature of reality. The only way to remove entropy from the system is the death drive, to control by mass extermination, the death drive also known as “The Thanatos Drive.” To create “control” by aggression, repetition compulsion, destruction, and even self-destruction. That is how He Who Remains is all that is at the end of time with Miss Minutes (who can time travel) and his gas monster (which he can control.)
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    Yes, I know how TV shows work But presumably Sylvie and Loki don't know they're in one, and so I can judge their actions in-universe and think that one was more prudent than the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Yes, I know how TV shows work But presumably Sylvie and Loki don't know they're in one, and so I can judge their actions in-universe and think that one was more prudent than the other.
    And you are SHOCKED when someone disagrees!
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I am tired of you thinking Sylvie has not thought about this her entire life. Telling women you just need to think more to your satisfaction is a bad look.

    Actively boiling down someone else's statement to stretch it into the most sexist possible interpretation possible when it's clear you are losing an argument isn't a good look.
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    Ok, so I’m an absurdly late comer to this discussion because I didn’t have time to watch the new episode until last night, and here are some random thoughts.

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    I heavily disliked He Who Remains’ acting, he laughed way too much and it felt very obnoxious, and not in that “love to hate” way. The whole office scene was kind of dull and I thought it really didn’t have to be.

    I understood Sylvie’s viewpoint, but I would have taken He Who Remains’ offer. Control of the TVA also means control of how time is managed. Given that they’re a fricking time travel agency, I see no reason why they can’t just change their mission statement to killing all Kangs automatically and letting everything else branch out the way it should. Surely if Kang is dead in the main timelines, Kang wouldn’t appear in branches (barring especially gruesome ones). If there’s really any other threat of multiversal war, again, time travel agency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Actively boiling down someone else's statement to stretch it into the most sexist possible interpretation possible when it's clear you are losing an argument isn't a good look.
    I did nothing of the sort.

    Psyren is making the arguement action is only permissible under his ideal conditions. Ideal conditions have a model, a standard also called “norms” where deviations from the “norms” are called variants. Aka the whole thing the show has been about.

    By reminding people that sex exists and there is no ideal norm to judge this situation I am challenging the entire logic of ideal theory. There will never be an ideal situation with perfect information concerning episode 6. NEVER!. There will always be variants of people in this show, and there will always be variants of this situation, and trying to pass judgement and act superior is missing the point of the situation of Episode 6.

    Sylvie has been thinking about this her entire life, and to ask more of this is to require only a super-human, a saint to make the judgement call.

    Spoiler: Episode 6
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    I could have used class there instead of sex / gender. Or I can use moral sainthood since He Who Remains used himself when he stated we are all murders, hypocrites, and villains. (A sophist rhetorical flourish on He Who Remains end.)

    But whatever, this arguement has extinguished itself. If you want to say the women is being impetuous with a person who is worse than Hitler who murdered all realities besides 1, and then pruned the remaining realities and eliminated all variants again and again. Never finding a better way, keep on feeding them to a gas monster, we’ll go ahead.

    “It is the impetuous Women” that we should focus our attention on and just whine that in this fictional show I can wish-cast she was just not so impulsive. That is where I will deploy my attention for I just want to do that, it is my choice!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Actively boiling down someone else's statement to stretch it into the most sexist possible interpretation possible when it's clear you are losing an argument isn't a good look.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I could have used class there instead of sex / gender.
    But you didn't, did you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Sylvie has been thinking about this her entire life, and to ask more of this is to require only a super-human, a saint to make the judgement call.
    Putting aside that she IS super-human, you don't have to be a saint to analyze new information.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Yes people never die or fail for analyzing new information is a free action, with no hazard when you live in the life of the mind.

    Likewise the guy who can manipulate time will never do the 16x movement trick his underling did earlier.

    The women is so rash and I need to say so!
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    My disagreement has no connection to her gender if you reversed the two positions
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    I would still be on the side that wants to take a minute and think before stabbing.

    Sylvie having thought about this her entire life is irrelevant, they have just been presented with new information in the last few minutes. You're allowed to digest new information before acting; that's all Loki wanted. Maybe even the chance to ask a few more questions so they can prepare.
    You are allowed to digest new info but she didn't want to, because she knew that she could be convinced. Makes perfect sense with her character and motivation throughout the show, but not something I would have done in her position.

    If you've ever watched or read the Expanse, there's a similar scene.

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    Miller shooting Dresden: "I didn't kill him because he was crazy, I killed him because he was making sense."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Yes people never die or fail for analyzing new information is a free action, with no hazard when you live in the life of the mind.

    Likewise the guy who can manipulate time will never do the 16x movement trick his underling did earlier.
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    So he'd do 16x speed if you take a minute to talk about what he said, but not if you stab him. Great logic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joran View Post
    You are allowed to digest new info but she didn't want to, because she knew that she could be convinced. Makes perfect sense with her character and motivation throughout the show, but not something I would have done in her position.
    I agree that it was in keeping with her character. And having what I perceive as a character flaw does not mean I think she is bad overall.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    So he'd do 16x speed if you take a minute to talk about what he said, but not if you stab him. Great logic.
    What can I say, Agent Coulson’s death and reversal of fortunes hit me hard. Best not to get over-confident. One does all the things one can to make sure he stays in the ground.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Forgive me if this question has already been asked, but if magic doesn't work in the TVA headquarters, to the point infinity stones are schmancy paperweights, why isn't Loki blue? One of the first thing Odin did when he picked up baby Loki was make him so he looked Asgardian, not the blue and other features of the frost giants. Presumably, this was done with magic.
    So why isn't Loki blue?
    Also, I'm a little miffed how little Loki's bisexuality was explored. I didn't expect otherwise, but I'm still a little miffed.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2021-07-20 at 11:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Forgive me if this question has already been asked, but if magic doesn't work in the TVA headquarters, to the point infinity stones are schmancy paperweights, why isn't Loki blue? One of the first thing Odin did when he picked up baby Loki was make him so he looked Asgardian, not the blue and other features of the frost giants. Presumably, this was done with magic.
    So why isn't Loki blue?
    Also, I'm a little miffed how little Loki's bisexuality was explored. I didn't expect otherwise, but I'm still a little miffed.
    We presume Loki is not blue and not bigger due to magic but there could be other causes. You are not the first person to ask this, and others have given explanations, and I am not satisfied with the answers in any direction.

    Likewise we assume infinity stones do not work due to magic rules but they could not work for a separate reason involved they only work in the universe they are coded for. (This is how they work in the comics, but the MCU is not a slave to continuity.)
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-07-20 at 11:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    (Also, funny note from the previous episode - why does a frost giant need a blanket anyway?).
    Maybe he was faking being cold just to use his romantic charms. I mean, it's what I would do in his position. :3


    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Forgive me if this question has already been asked, but if magic doesn't work in the TVA headquarters, to the point infinity stones are schmancy paperweights, why isn't Loki blue? One of the first thing Odin did when he picked up baby Loki was make him so he looked Asgardian, not the blue and other features of the frost giants. Presumably, this was done with magic.
    So why isn't Loki blue?
    To borrow D&D's magic system, perhaps Odin was smart enough to make the changes permanent so that it didn't rely on a continuous magical effect that could fail. That's my theory since we never see Loki accidentally change back in any of the movies.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Originally Posted by DigoDragon
    To borrow D&D's magic system, perhaps Odin was smart enough to make the changes permanent so that it didn't rely on a continuous magical effect that could fail. That's my theory since we never see Loki accidentally change back in any of the movies.
    Possibly, but it can be overcome by direct contact with intense cold, as we saw several times in Thor 1. The moment in the vault might have been voluntary, but the first time (during combat with the frost giants) definitely wasn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    So he'd do 16x speed if you take a minute to talk about what he said, but not if you stab him. Great logic.
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    As far as Kang was concerned, if he was killed it wouldn't matter, not even to him. Branches would develop, Kangs would arise, they would have a multiversal war, one of them would win it and form something like the TVA as the only way to keep the war won. I think he rather assumed that it would be him that won it, like he did last time, and the differences in the TVA at the end likely showed that he didn't.

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    Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
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    I think he rather assumed that it would be him that won it, like he did last time, and the differences in the TVA at the end likely showed that he didn't.
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    But didn’t we see a giant statue of Kang in the alternate TVA?

    That would suggest a Kang won out, perhaps one that didn’t feel the need to hide behind animatronic Timekeepers.

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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    But didn’t we see a giant statue of Kang in the alternate TVA?

    That would suggest a Kang won out, perhaps one that didn’t feel the need to hide behind animatronic Timekeepers.
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    Yes, the multiversal war was always a war between Kangs. He Who Remains seemed to assume that because he was the variant who won it last time he would do so again and recreate things the same way he did last time. In fact weren't his last words "see you later" or something like that?.

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
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    Yes, the multiversal war was always a war between Kangs. He Who Remains seemed to assume that because he was the variant who won it last time he would do so again and recreate things the same way he did last time. In fact weren't his last words "see you later" or something like that?.
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    I didn't read it that way.

    His preferred way is that Loki and Sylvie take over, and all of his work doesn't get undone. After all, he put everything in place so the Kangs don't fight.

    However, he also doesn't see a difference between himself and the other Kangs. They aren't different people, they're all just Kang to him. So even if he loses another version of him will win. That Kang may reinstitute the TVA. He may be an omnicidal maniac. Either way it doesn't matter, because Kang wins in the end. And Kang winning is all that matters, even if its a radically different version than himself. He prefers the winner be the He Who Remains version, but other Kangs winning is also acceptable.

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    This might have been mentioned already, but in the Citadel...
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    As the two Loki's go through the place, there's a room with the three time keepers as statues on pedestals. But wasn't there a fourth pedestal that looked like it had a statue knocked off it?

    Maybe I'm seeing it wrong cause the scene is dark, but just thinking out loud.



    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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    But didn’t we see a giant statue of Kang in the alternate TVA?

    That would suggest a Kang won out, perhaps one that didn’t feel the need to hide behind animatronic Timekeepers.
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    I had an odd thought about that-- what if there's more than one TVA existing at the same time? I had this thought because I was thinking back to the various moments where Mobius had trouble remembering details in the TVA, such as leaving the water stains on Renslayer's table, or that he didn't remember ever pruning a Gator Loki.

    Originally I thought that maybe there's more than one Mobius, but then I thought why not more than one TVA? Perhaps there's two and they exist in different "pockets" so that normally they don't see one another, but maybe on a rare occasion agents somehow get their tempad jumps crossed and end up in the other TVA.

    We see the statue of Kang in the TVA Loki ends up in at the end, but wasn't Loki teleported there before Sylvie kills "their" Kang? If multiple Kang's exist, perhaps more than one had the idea to create a TVA.

    Could just be an idea too silly though and the TBA change happened retroactively while Loki was teleported. I acknowledge it's rather out there. ^^;



    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Possibly, but it can be overcome by direct contact with intense cold, as we saw several times in Thor 1. The moment in the vault might have been voluntary, but the first time (during combat with the frost giants) definitely wasn't.
    True, true... tis not a perfect idea.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
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    Yes, the multiversal war was always a war between Kangs. He Who Remains seemed to assume that because he was the variant who won it last time he would do so again and recreate things the same way he did last time. In fact weren't his last words "see you later" or something like that?.
    Yep, Narcissism.

    Spoiler: Narcissism
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    He Who Remains, Mr. Richard feels the only threats to him is other Kangs.

    Yet he also polices other variants besides Kang.

    Is this a contradiction to a Narcissist?

    The answer is no, they think differently and they are not good with seeing contradictions, nor they do not care about contradictions, for “psychological splitting” is a core aspect of the personality type. With Narcissists there is always something excellent in their self-image they can latch onto, they are talented in their self image, or they are morally good (even when they are not), or they are the prettiest, the smartest, the best at conquering and being a survivor. What is excellent need not be fixed, they will find a new way to exalt themselves and during those brief moments they are not high on their own supply they will have narcissistic anger / narcissistic rage. This rage is often directed at the thing that make them feel not the greatest, they feel injury and they have to destroy the thing that offends their sense of self.

    —————

    He Who Remains can not lose in his mind. Likewise he can not examine the faults of “his design” from a sense of self perspective, but also he does not care to examine the faults, for that would be boring and he is already the greatest. It is a “self closed system” his own cognition and thus his inner self and the external world he manufactured by killing everyone who challenges him are one and the same, the external world is a mirror to his own self perception.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-07-21 at 12:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Originally Posted by DigoDragon
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    As the two Loki's go through the place, there's a room with the three time keepers as statues on pedestals. But wasn't there a fourth pedestal that looked like it had a statue knocked off it?
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    Yep, there was a statue that had been thrown down and broken. I had thought there were only two standing plus the one fallen, which may have represented the robot Timekeeper that Sylvie "killed."

    But it was all so Scooby-Doo that I couldn't really take those scenes seriously. I know others have commented about the setting, but I found it very generic and unimaginative. All of time and space to draw on, and we have a castle that just happens to look sinister according to late 20th/early 21st-century eyes?

    For me, the visual high point of the series was that first majestic pan of the TVA headquarters, which reminded me of a John Berkey painting. It was classic sci-fi design, and worked perfectly with the 70s aesthetic inside the TVA.

    By contrast, the castle thing was just...dull, and even trite, despite the little silvery veins here and there. I would have wanted much, much more from a citadel outside of time. The only consistency is that the castle was as unimpressive as its occupant.
    Last edited by Palanan; 2021-07-21 at 12:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
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    Yes, the multiversal war was always a war between Kangs. He Who Remains seemed to assume that because he was the variant who won it last time he would do so again and recreate things the same way he did last time. In fact weren't his last words "see you later" or something like that?.
    I didn't take it that literally; I don't think he cares which one ends up on top, because it will ultimately be one who did what he did (or something similar.)
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    Namely, subjugate the others - most likely with Alioth - and then arrange the timeline so that "he" is always the winner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
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    I didn't read it that way.

    His preferred way is that Loki and Sylvie take over, and all of his work doesn't get undone. After all, he put everything in place so the Kangs don't fight.

    However, he also doesn't see a difference between himself and the other Kangs. They aren't different people, they're all just Kang to him. So even if he loses another version of him will win. That Kang may reinstitute the TVA. He may be an omnicidal maniac. Either way it doesn't matter, because Kang wins in the end. And Kang winning is all that matters, even if its a radically different version than himself. He prefers the winner be the He Who Remains version, but other Kangs winning is also acceptable.
    This. Cosmic order is the goal, not a particular signature variation at the bottom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Yep, Narcissism.

    Spoiler: Narcissism
    Show

    He Who Remains, Mr. Richard feels the only threats to him is other Kangs.

    Yet he also polices other variants besides Kang.

    Is this a contradiction to a Narcissist?

    The answer is no, they think differently and they are not good with seeing contradictions, nor they do not care about contradictions, for “psychological splitting” is a core aspect of the personality type. With Narcissists there is always something excellent in their self-image they can latch onto, they are talented in their self image, or they are morally good (even when they are not), or they are the prettiest, the smartest, the best at conquering and being a survivor. What is excellent need not be fixed, they will find a new way to exalt themselves and during those brief moments they are not high on their own supply they will have narcissistic anger / narcissistic rage. This rage is often directed at the thing that make them feel not the greatest, they feel injury and they have to destroy the thing that offends their sense of self.

    —————

    He Who Remains can not lose in his mind. Likewise he can not examine the faults of “his design” from a sense of self perspective, but also he does not care to examine the faults, for that would be boring and he is already the greatest. It is a “self closed system” his own cognition and thus his inner self and the external world he manufactured by killing everyone who challenges him are one and the same, the external world is a mirror to his own self perception.
    For once we agree. (Clearly that makes us both sexist)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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