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Thread: Loki (2021)

  1. - Top - End - #721
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The presence of the Thanos Copter in the Void does give strong circumstantial support to the idea that at least one variant Thanos has been beaten by the TVA...
    True, but your argument is undercut by that version being the Thanoscopter version of Thanos. Also, at least one variant of Thanos has lost to Squirrel Girl, so his power level can be pretty variable...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    True, but your argument is undercut by that version being the Thanoscopter version of Thanos.
    Yeah, if he's dumb/audacious enough to faff about in a pelly with his name tattooed on the side, he kinda probably deserves to lose.

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    The reverse is also true though, some variants are actually stronger than the sacred version. See Classic Loki for example, or Sylvie for that matter. Given that, the most likely explanation is that the TVA catch variants off guard the vast majority of the time. (Given that they can see your whole branch provided you're not hiding in an apocalypse event, that likely isn't too difficult.)

    The only two we've seen evade capture are the ones who escaped the TVA's clutches, which appears to be rare (and even more likely, not an accident.)
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-07-23 at 03:20 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #724
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    If they’re using variants as agents (which we know they are), there might be some higher-power-tier agents they send after the really dangerous cases. EX: send TVAAgent!Thor against Variant!Thanos. Kind of like they did with Loki.

    I thought about the TVA just having their agents zerg rush him, but their numbers are finite (else Sylvie wouldn’t have been able to depopulate the TVA with her timeline bombing) and so is the amount of time they have to arrest/prune him before the branch redlines. So they can’t just pile on infinite bodies until someone batons him, nor can they wait for him to take a nap or something in all cases. They need some kind of workaround.

  5. - Top - End - #725
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    You only need to touch someone with a baton to deal with them so the TVA do seem like they should have quite an advantage on most variants.
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2021-07-24 at 01:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Would surprise be enough to take down a variant Thanos?
    Thor surprised Thanos at the end of Infinity War.
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    Would have killed him too, had Thor aimed for the head...
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  7. - Top - End - #727
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    For that matter, Hulk also got the drop on Thanos at the beginning of IW. He didn't win that one, but it did catch Thanos off guard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Magic Batons, little disks that can taser Thor to unconscious, we really do not know the limits of all this tech in the MCU for they are magic engineering devices that work to accelerate the plot and suddenly not work when the plot demands
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Interesting to consider how well Thanos would do against Alioth; the TVA has a remarkably effective cosmic garbage disposal (although it seems like a bit of a redundant step- their kill-you-with-a-touch batons actually send you to the Void where a giant smoke monster... kills you with a touch. Needed by the plot, yes, entirely logical... not so much.), but it's not unstoppable, as Sylvie and Loki demonstrated.

    Also... am I the only one that thinks the Citadel at the End of Time (or whatever it was called) looks remarkably like a rundown version of the Empress Hotel in Victoria, albeit with a turret glued onto it?

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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
    Interesting to consider how well Thanos would do against Alioth; the TVA has a remarkably effective cosmic garbage disposal (although it seems like a bit of a redundant step- their kill-you-with-a-touch batons actually send you to the Void where a giant smoke monster... kills you with a touch. Needed by the plot, yes, entirely logical... not so much.), but it's not unstoppable, as Sylvie and Loki demonstrated.
    Thanos could do pretty well against Alioth if he had infinity stones. As could other variants with mind control powers, like Wanda or Agatha. I'm not sure that Alioth can be fought physically though.

  11. - Top - End - #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Thanos could do pretty well against Alioth if he had infinity stones. As could other variants with mind control powers, like Wanda or Agatha. I'm not sure that Alioth can be fought physically though.
    Infinity stones only work within their own little section of the multiverse, so a version of Thanos that had been sent to the end of time would find himself relatively powerless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Infinity stones only work within their own little section of the multiverse, so a version of Thanos that had been sent to the end of time would find himself relatively powerless.
    Is that how that works? The stones don't work in the TVA, but neither do Loki's powers, and those worked fine in the Void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Is that how that works? The stones don't work in the TVA, but neither do Loki's powers, and those worked fine in the Void.
    I don’t think it was officially established for the stones, but it would make sense if they do work in the Void; why else have them crammed in desk drawers and being used as paperweights in TVA headquarters? They’re not exactly useful in the TVA, why keep them around at all unless they’d be dangerous in the TVA garbage dump?

  14. - Top - End - #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Is that how that works? The stones don't work in the TVA, but neither do Loki's powers, and those worked fine in the Void.
    It's how they work in the comics. I suppose it could be different for the MCU.

  15. - Top - End - #735
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Thanos could do pretty well against Alioth if he had infinity stones. As could other variants with mind control powers, like Wanda or Agatha. I'm not sure that Alioth can be fought physically though.
    The big guns on the USS Eldridge seemed to just pass harmlessly through Alioth.

    As for mind control, it did take two Loki's to pull it off, with a distraction assist from a third so they could connect. I'm going with the assumption no one would have expected that many Loki's working together.
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  16. - Top - End - #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    The big guns on the USS Eldridge seemed to just pass harmlessly through Alioth.

    As for mind control, it did take two Loki's to pull it off, with a distraction assist from a third so they could connect. I'm going with the assumption no one would have expected that many Loki's working together.
    I mean if you're comparing the power and abilities of even one infinity stone to a few 3" naval guns your power scaling even for the MCU versions is way off....

  17. - Top - End - #737
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    The TVA mostly don't have to deal with a powerful Thanos anyway. HWR doesn't care if Thanos ends all life in the universe someday, only that any different Kang is prevented. It's a Thanos that fails to gather the stones, or fumbles the infinity gauntlet, or rides around in a helicopter that the TVA is worried about. The more damage Thanos does, the less likely it is a Kang will ever live later on. I doubt we'll get confirmation, but it's probably intentional that they keep the extra infinity stones in the TVA and don't purge them to the void of time for a meeting with Alioth.

  18. - Top - End - #738
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    So this only occurred to me now, but if HWR was trying to prevent other Kang variants from existing and if the MCU keeps the part about him being descended from Reed Richards this gives a direct track as to why the Fantastic Four will only be showing up now (or rather in a few irl years).
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2021-07-26 at 12:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I mean if you're comparing the power and abilities of even one infinity stone to a few 3" naval guns your power scaling even for the MCU versions is way off....
    No, no, I was just commenting on the question about whether physical attacks can affect Ailoth or not. XD

    The stones are very much a whole different level above the kinetic energy of a few cannon shells.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Would surprise be enough to take down a variant Thanos?
    Landing a touch attack on Thanos doesn't actually appear all that hard. He tanks quite a number of hits in his time onscreen. His durability is ridiculous, but a squad of guy with batons hitting him with surprise? Yeah, probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Infinity stones only work within their own little section of the multiverse, so a version of Thanos that had been sent to the end of time would find himself relatively powerless.
    I think the whole stone borrowing plot from Endgame contradicts this. It seems they work fine absolutely everywhere but within the TVA itself.

  21. - Top - End - #741
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Landing a touch attack on Thanos doesn't actually appear all that hard. He tanks quite a number of hits in his time onscreen. His durability is ridiculous, but a squad of guy with batons hitting him with surprise? Yeah, probably.



    I think the whole stone borrowing plot from Endgame contradicts this. It seems they work fine absolutely everywhere but within the TVA itself.
    Wait, but weren't they same universe different timeline?
    They weren't different multiverse yet.

  22. - Top - End - #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Wait, but weren't they same universe different timeline?
    They weren't different multiverse yet.
    The TVA does a poor job of explaining the difference between universe (which is presumably where Alligator Loki comes from) and timeline, which is where our variant Loki comes from.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  23. - Top - End - #743
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    And the TVA itself seems to exist in some sort of pocket dimension, which doesnt help matters any.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  24. - Top - End - #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Wait, but weren't they same universe different timeline?
    They weren't different multiverse yet.
    The directors / writers contradicted their own time travel rules over 2 movies. Likewise the Loki writers (which is a different group of people) were given free reign to create their own rules, metaphysics, and powers that be per interviews for this Disney Plus show.

    We should turn off our brain and just enjoy the ride. (unless you find fun in looking for contradictions)

    A question I ask having fun looking at the absurd with no answer. Could an invisible helicarrier, with DNA sensing, and some big guns be enough firepower to take down Thanos that he has less freedom to act in an offensive way, allowing a dexterous and mobile Spider-Man to take the gauntlet, or perhaps a Wong to just cut off the arm with teleportation gateways? Where was that invisibility tech in the Battle of Upstate New York (I mean Battle of Earth) ?
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-07-26 at 01:32 PM.
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    I would say that my fun comes from taking things that look like contradictions on the surface, and finding ways to make them fit, even if it takes adding a small handwave or headcanon to get them to go in all the way.

    For example:
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    Jonathan Majors in interviews saying that Kang the Conqueror would not show up in Loki, only for him to appear in the finale as the big reveal - but while JM is playing both KTC and HWR, they are not actually the same character. This fits with the comics due to his HWR outfit being much more reminiscent of Immortus, a different (and arguably more dangerous) Kang, than the original - and it further makes sense that Immortus would have been the one to, at least until the Lokis came around, subjugate all the others.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  26. - Top - End - #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    The directors / writers contradicted their own time travel rules over 2 movies. Likewise the Loki writers (which is a different group of people) were given free reign to create their own rules, metaphysics, and powers that be per interviews for this Disney Plus show.

    We should turn off our brain and just enjoy the ride. (unless you find fun in looking for contradictions)

    A question I ask having fun looking at the absurd with no answer. Could an invisible helicarrier, with DNA sensing, and some big guns be enough firepower to take down Thanos that he has less freedom to act in an offensive way, allowing a dexterous and mobile Spider-Man to take the gauntlet, or perhaps a Wong to just cut off the arm with teleportation gateways? Where was that invisibility tech in the Battle of Upstate New York (I mean Battle of Earth) ?
    I do enjoy contradictions, sometimes. The exploring of them, at least, is interesting.

    The teleport circles lopping off limbs does seem like an oversight. An, ahem, disarmed Thanos does seem like a solved problem. As for firepower, eh, I dunno. A fairly large amount of firepower is directed at him in canon, and we can assume substantially more immediately prior to the events of Infinity War, as he acquired the first two gems. Hitting him harder doesn't seem to actually hurt him all that much, you sort of need some kind of way around that durability, rather than attacking it head on. Hock him into the sun without the gauntlet, something like that.

  27. - Top - End - #747
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
    Hitting him harder doesn't seem to actually hurt him all that much, you sort of need some kind of way around that durability, rather than attacking it head on.
    I’ve often wondered why Stark didn’t spray nanofoam up Thanos’ nose and into his airways to solidify his lungs from the inside out.

    If Stark can use nanofoam to patch the hull of a violently depressurizing alien starship, he should be able to suffocate Thanos with the stuff.

  28. - Top - End - #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I’ve often wondered why Stark didn’t spray nanofoam up Thanos’ nose and into his airways to solidify his lungs from the inside out.

    If Stark can use nanofoam to patch the hull of a violently depressurizing alien starship, he should be able to suffocate Thanos with the stuff.
    I cant imagine that Thanos would politely hold still for that to happen.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  29. - Top - End - #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I cant imagine that Thanos would politely hold still for that to happen.
    I want a super fight where Thanos says it tickles, he starts laughing, then he sneezes throwing the heroes back dozens of feat.
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  30. - Top - End - #750
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    Default Re: Loki (2021)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I cant imagine that Thanos would politely hold still for that to happen.
    I now want to see a nanotech facehugger drone that sprays the nanofoam.

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