Loki (2021)

[dps]

I think this assumes facts not in evidence. Certainly many people liked him well enough, but "vast majority" and "loved" might be stretches

FWIW, I'm not particularly a fan of either Goldblum or Wilson. I don't think I've ever seen Wilson in a role in which he was wasn't basically just playing Owen Wilson as opposed to actually acting (though of course I might have missed something), and
while I would agree that Goldblum is a better actor than that, since Jurassic Park he's been mostly content to just do Jeff Goldblum shtick. OTOH, in the trailer it looks like Wilson is being less Owen Wilson-y than usual, so we'll see.

[Splinterverse]

I can't wait to see this! It looks so good. Hiddleston is the BOMB!

[Palanan]

A brief but important announcement from Tom:

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Wednesday seems like an odd choice. Are they trying to keep from crashing the Disney+ servers?

[Cikomyr2]

Wednesday seems like an odd choice. Are they trying to keep from crashing the Disney+ servers?

Because Loki wants to be a good son, and release his new episodes on Odin's Day

[baraton]

I hope so much for this series that it will not work as well as with The Witcher that expectations will be exaggerated and it will turn out average (forgive me, fans of the series, this is just my opinion).

[Cikomyr2]

I hope so much for this series that it will not work as well as with The Witcher that expectations will be exaggerated and it will turn out average (forgive me, fans of the series, this is just my opinion).

I hated the Witcher because the disjointed structure had no story purpose, and no easy cue to follow. I don't see what was gained in making the time changes so opaque.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
Wednesday seems like an odd choice.

Agreed, not sure what the logic is. My only guess is that they might be releasing Bad Batch episodes on Friday morning, and to avoid overlap they’re releasing Loki on Wednesdays.

Or maybe they’re just playing up Loki’s role as the god of mischief? But there’s probably a more solid rationale besides that.

Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
Because Loki wants to be a good son, and release his new episodes on Odin's Day

Playground needs a like button.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Playground needs a like button.

Second this. If that isn’t the real, official explanation it should be.

[Psyren]

I'd prefer Friday to Wednesday personally but I'm not too fussed either way.

Wednesday seems like an odd choice. Are they trying to keep from crashing the Disney+ servers?

Because Loki wants to be a good son, and release his new episodes on Odin's Day

Second this. If that isn’t the real, official explanation it should be.

My theory is that, with everything steadily reopening, people will start doing things after work on a Friday again by the time June rolls around, and thus have less time to watch these as they debut if they keep a start-of-the-weekend slot. I'm certain that one of the many, many engagement metrics they're capturing around use of their service is how soon after an episode debuts people tend to put it on. WandaVision and FATWS likely provided a decent baseline as far as "what does that Mean-Time-To-Watch look like if people have nothing else to do at the start of their weekend?"

[Cikomyr2]

I'd prefer Friday to Wednesday personally but I'm not too fussed either way.







My theory is that, with everything steadily reopening, people will start doing things after work on a Friday again by the time June rolls around, and thus have less time to watch these as they debut if they keep a start-of-the-weekend slot. I'm certain that one of the many, many engagement metrics they're capturing around use of their service is how soon after an episode debuts people tend to put it on. WandaVision and FATWS likely provided a decent baseline as far as "what does that Mean-Time-To-Watch look like if people have nothing else to do at the start of their weekend?"

That's Doylist reason. Get out of here you philistine!

[Ramza00]

I hated the Witcher because the disjointed structure had no story purpose, and no easy cue to follow. I don't see what was gained in making the time changes so opaque.

Well that is an easy one to answer. The Witcher were originally short stories, and only later we got longer novels after two short stories collections were published. Furthermore the Witcher character at the start is a personality antithetical to the author, yet we see him change slowly by his journeys and how he will be different than the butcher we first see him as.

When we are told stories we often adopt the rules and expectations of previous stories where we expect a certain style by the work. We expect a different style with themes with an oral story that completes by the end of the night, told over a campfire. We expect a different style with themes over a long book that is not short stories but is a long narrative told over several nights.

We expect a person’s life to end up somewhere at the end of the journey is an expectation we impart without realizing it.

Metaphor time, we expect a paper knife to be used for certain purposes for its form was crafted before it was created, then that form was made and was used for that intended purpose. But humans are not paper knives, and Witcher’s are humans, even if they have two different type of swords to slay monsters. With a paper knife as an object it’s essence precedes their existence (its form preceded its creation, its form preceded how it was being used) but with human subjects unlike objects everything is reversed where existence precedes its essence. Humans we exist, and thus we can choose what we do, and we can rebel against the way we form and we can choose different paths. Existentialism Is a Humanism as a philosopher once said.

—————

Telling the stories out of order besides mimicking the short stories introduce us to the constant of the story first. The constant is not Gerald of Rivera and his relationships. No the constant is his job, the racism of the world, how people treat the other races, how people treat The Witchers as people with all these awful racial prejudices, etc.

Getting through this backlog of non sequential timeline and establishing the world will give the creators more freedom to tell Gerald’s story. By not following the rules of traditional story craft you can tell a different style of story.

[Talakeal]

My suspicion when I first watched the trailer is this is essentially going to be the plot to the 00's Marvel comic series Exiles. Which was people (largely Mutants but assorted others joined as it went on) erased from their own time-lines from various other universes are plucked up and drafted by a mysterious cosmic entity to fix cracks in the multiverse by intervening in certain events, all with the eventual promise of their own continued existence at the end of it. Sort of like Quantum Leap meets Sliders but with Marvel Superheroes, they go from one world to world correcting wrongs in hopes that each leap will get them home.

Basically, I think in this case that Loki's not fixing his mistakes specifically so much as having to deal with the generalized havoc of the timeline in exchange for leniency - and possibly his own continued existence past the events of Endgame - by near-omniscient time cops who need his brand of villainy to deal with some other Marvel thing that's out there in the cosmos that's been eluding them.

I would think so to, but its going to be really hard to do anything like that on a TV budget without any of the big name actors from the MCU willing to make a cameo.

I would be looking forward to this show a lot more if it were a movie.

[Psyren]

I would think so to, but its going to be really hard to do anything like that on a TV budget without any of the big name actors from the MCU willing to make a cameo.

I would be looking forward to this show a lot more if it were a movie.

1) If it's multiverse shenanigans, they can easily include characters we haven't seen yet without needing to explain their origins or where they were during the Infinity Saga as thoroughly. Think Mysterio's made-up backstory from FFH, but played straight.

2) Given that we literally saw them bring in Don Cheadle for a 2 minute chat and Evan Peters for a d**k joke, I don't think we have to worry too much about Phase 4's cameo potential.

That's Doylist reason. Get out of here you philistine!

I do like both dammit
But I do tend to default to Doylist where it can be deduced.

[Cikomyr2]

Well that is an easy one to answer. The Witcher were originally short stories, and only later we got longer novels after two short stories collections were published. Furthermore the Witcher character at the start is a personality antithetical to the author, yet we see him change slowly by his journeys and how he will be different than the butcher we first see him as.

When we are told stories we often adopt the rules and expectations of previous stories where we expect a certain style by the work. We expect a different style with themes with an oral story that completes by the end of the night, told over a campfire. We expect a different style with themes over a long book that is not short stories but is a long narrative told over several nights.

We expect a person’s life to end up somewhere at the end of the journey is an expectation we impart without realizing it.

Metaphor time, we expect a paper knife to be used for certain purposes for its form was crafted before it was created, then that form was made and was used for that intended purpose. But humans are not paper knives, and Witcher’s are humans, even if they have two different type of swords to slay monsters. With a paper knife as an object it’s essence precedes their existence (its form preceded its creation, its form preceded how it was being used) but with human subjects unlike objects everything is reversed where existence precedes its essence. Humans we exist, and thus we can choose what we do, and we can rebel against the way we form and we can choose different paths. Existentialism Is a Humanism as a philosopher once said.

—————

Telling the stories out of order besides mimicking the short stories introduce us to the constant of the story first. The constant is not Gerald of Rivera and his relationships. No the constant is his job, the racism of the world, how people treat the other races, how people treat The Witchers as people with all these awful racial prejudices, etc.

Getting through this backlog of non sequential timeline and establishing the world will give the creators more freedom to tell Gerald’s story. By not following the rules of traditional story craft you can tell a different style of story.

You know hwat? My bad. I shouldn't have said that in this thread. We could discuss it, and you make good point, but I don't want to hijack the conversation. Sorry.

[Rynjin]

Playground needs a like button.

I know it's a joke but...ew no. The lack of like/dislike buttons and similar social media features is part of why this site is still a cut above the rest of the internet.

[Kitten Champion]

I would think so to, but its going to be really hard to do anything like that on a TV budget without any of the big name actors from the MCU willing to make a cameo.

If the focus is on repairing the time-stream or whatever, they can simply Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban-it and not have him meaningfully interact with any important MCU characters for the sake of temporal continuity or whatever. They can also do the tried and tested Forrest Gump-insert-your-character-into-older-footage trick if they want to reference a specific point in the movies. Also, yeah, like Psyren said, it's Disney, they can pay for the cameos if need be.

Still, I should point out because I was being unclear, I don't think this is the eXiles in the sense that he's going to be travelling the multiverse. It's possible, I suppose, given the next MCU Spider-Man film is likely to have multi-verse as an important plot element and the Doctor Strange sequel is on the horizon -- it's just not what's presented in the trailer. What I do think is he's going to be traveling through time after being press-ganged into helping cosmic-level temporal continuity cops in exchange for not being erased from all existence as a remnant of an altered time-line.

My point was also that - like with eXiles - I think Loki's not clearing up his mistakes specifically, but resolving whatever crisis that could lead these nigh omniscient time-cops to seek the outside help of someone nefarious like Loki in the first place. Which, I would also guess, we'll learn at some point is all the plot of yet another Marvel villain. Whose identity I couldn't hazard to guess, but I can't imagine there not being one.

[Psyren]

I know it's a joke but...ew no. The lack of like/dislike buttons and similar social media features is part of why this site is still a cut above the rest of the internet.

Yeah, this. (Actual moderation helps too)

My point was also that - like with eXiles - I think Loki's not clearing up his mistakes specifically, but resolving whatever crisis that could lead these nigh omniscient time-cops to seek the outside help of someone nefarious like Loki in the first place. Which, I would also guess, we'll learn at some point is all the plot of yet another Marvel villain. Whose identity I couldn't hazard to guess, but I can't imagine there not being one.

My money's on Kang

[Kitten Champion]

My money's on Kang

The problem there is they announced Jonathan Majors being cast as Kang around when Loki had already finalized its production.

Incidentally, this is the Wikipedia plot summary --

After stealing the Tesseract during the events of Avengers: Endgame (2019), an alternate version of Loki is brought to the mysterious Time Variance Authority (TVA), a bureaucratic organization that exists outside of time and space and monitors the timeline. They give Loki a choice: face being deleted from existence due to being a "time variant", or help fix the timeline and stop a greater threat. Loki ends up trapped in his own crime thriller, traveling through time and altering human history

Which is a less obtuse way of saying what I was thinking they were going with this.

[Magic_Hat]

Who is that cartoon, clock guy/gal/character?

Spoiler: image, just a promotional poster for Loki

Show

[Starbuck_II]

Cartoon mascot or they go to cartoon multiverse.
Like the spider-ham in Miles's Into the Spiderverse movie?

[Rynjin]

10 to 1 it's a one-off character from the first episode where they make Loki watch some kind of training video or "this is how time aberrations work" dealy and Owen Wilson keeps making him sit down every time he exclaims about how it's stupid and tries to leave.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Dunno, but it’s at 0:58 on the trailer, behind bars on the TV screen.

[Magic_Hat]

Dunno, but it’s at 0:58 on the trailer, behind bars on the TV screen.

I just noticed that cartoon character has sixteen (I guess) notches on it. So I guess it can't be a clock as our time system (specifically hours in a day) is based off twelve...unless it's a weird alien time system, but why would they be so needlessly eccentric especially now? I mean, they have extraterrestrials who speak English.

[The Glyphstone]

It'd hardly be the first time a cartoon mascot wasn't exactly photo-realistic, even just on Earth.

[Magic_Hat]

It'd hardly be the first time a cartoon mascot wasn't exactly photo-realistic, even just on Earth.

Could you cite a precedent?

[Rodin]

Could you cite a precedent?

...All of them? Seriously, name a photrealistic cartoon mascot. Just one.

If you want a counter-example, I picked the first one that came into my head - Tony the Tiger. He walks on his hind legs, has much larger eyes than a regular tiger, has opposable thumbs, has only 4 fingers/toes on said hand, he walks on his hind legs...and that's just the blatantly obvious stuff after 5 seconds of looking at him.

[Talakeal]

...All of them? Seriously, name a photrealistic cartoon mascot. Just one.

If you want a counter-example, I picked the first one that came into my head - Tony the Tiger. He walks on his hind legs, has much larger eyes than a regular tiger, has opposable thumbs, has only 4 fingers/toes on said hand, he walks on his hind legs...and that's just the blatantly obvious stuff after 5 seconds of looking at him.

And a blue nose.

[Psyren]

Think Mysterio's made-up backstory from FFH, but played straight.

Well, I had the right idea but the wrong vehicle for it apparently!

[The Glyphstone]

Captain Crunch has never been depicted with four gold bars on his sleeve either, the appropriate rank insignia for a naval captain.