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2021-04-09, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Automatic Pass vs. Automatic Fail
Paralysed creatures automatically fail Dexterity saving throws.
Careful Spell allows a creature to automatically pass a saving throw (e.g; Fireball; Dex save)
What do?
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2021-04-10, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
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2021-04-10, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Last edited by Tanarii; 2021-04-10 at 01:54 AM.
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2021-04-10, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Automatic Pass vs. Automatic Fail
I'm not sure if it is clear which of the two is the "specific" and which is the "general", so I don't think there is an absolute rule answer.
However, I'm pretty certain that automatic pass makes more sense here:
(1) Paralyse is an automatic failure because if you can't move, you can't dodge.
(2) Careful spell is an automatic success because you shape and position the spell in a way your allies don't even need to dodge.
If anything, it should be easier to avoid hitting someone paralyzed than someone moving around.
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2021-04-10, 06:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
Re: Automatic Pass vs. Automatic Fail
Someone mentioned that specific beats general but this is an excellent example of two contradictory specific rules.
As always, the important thing is that this game has a DM for a reason, to making rulings. This is neither a RAW nor an RAI discussion anymore, the rules tell us all we need to know, they just didn't cover this eventuality.
So, time to apply a ruling. If it were me, I'd agree with MoiMagnus that the Careful Spell is more a function of the spellcaster than of the paralysed creature so the spell shapes itself around them without hitting them.
If the paralyzed creature has Evasion, I'd deny them that however.78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
The PCs, walk into a town they've never before visited together, all the villagers stop & stare at them. The PCs realise why when they get to the fountain at the centre of town, there are accurate statues of each of them, even down to the gear they currently carry. The statues have been here for generations...
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2021-04-10, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
- Location
- Montevarchi, Italy
- Gender
Re: Automatic Pass vs. Automatic Fail
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2021-04-12, 04:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Subang Jaya, Malaysia
- Gender
Re: Automatic Pass vs. Automatic Fail
Might be just me, but i feel that a class ability is more specific than a condition.
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2021-04-12, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- EU
- Gender
Re: Automatic Pass vs. Automatic Fail
Just for completeness:
Originally Posted by Careful Spell