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Thread: Getting Access to Summon Monster
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2021-04-09, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Getting Access to Summon Monster
Suppose you’re playing a divine caster who wants to get into Nar Demonbinder but Summon Monster isn’t natively on your list. How could you fix that?
I have 3.5 ideas right now.
1. Take Initiate of Olidammara. Olidammara’s Bard Spell gives
you access to the Bard spell list up to 3rd level.
2. Take Magical Training (Wizard) and copy a Summon Monster spell into your spellbook. Having a spell in your spellbook and knowing the spell may be different things though.
2.5. Take Magical Training, Alternate Source Spell, and Arcane Disciple (Summoner Domain), treating your Divine casting side as the arcane casting for the purposes of the feat.
3. Just take a dip in any class that has access to the spell.
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2021-04-09, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
Extra Spell cheese?
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2021-04-09, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2017
Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
Radiant Fire for another initiate feat.
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2021-04-10, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
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2021-04-10, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
I was going to suggest Summon Monster as an SLA (since SLAs can sub for specific spells when it comes to reqs), but the wording of Nar Demonbinder is a bit weird "knowledge of at least one summon monster spell".
Nightbringer Initiate feat adds Summon Monster V to a Druid's spell list.Last edited by Thurbane; 2021-04-10 at 12:31 AM.
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2021-04-10, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2017
Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
Unfortunately that feat requires Cleric levels, which get SM natively.[/QUOTE]
I think some others like favored soul can take it too, but I suppose that's not much different either to matter.
What's the class you're thinking of, healer?
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2021-04-10, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
I think some others like favored soul can take it too, but I suppose that's not much different either to matter.
What's the class you're thinking of, healer?[/QUOTE]
Urban Druid actually.
This is why I considered Magical Training and scribing the spell into the spellbook. Does that count as knowing?
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2021-04-10, 01:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Vancouver, BC, Canada
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2021-04-10, 01:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
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2021-04-10, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-04-10, 03:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
Divine Disciple or Contemplative can both give bonus domains (including the ones that give Summon Monster), but come online fairly late if you are trying to get into Nar Demonbinder.
Maybe Planar Touchstone / Catalogues of Enlightenment might work with the right domain?Last edited by Thurbane; 2021-04-10 at 04:43 AM.
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2021-04-10, 04:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
That actually makes it rather difficult, because clerics and druids don't actually count as knowing any of their spells according to the definition of what spells known is in the phb. Only sorcerers and wizards, and classes that mimic their casting (like bards, assassins, archivists, favoured soul etc), "know" any spells, but divine casters who pray for their spells will never qualify, as even if the spell is on their spell list, they still don't actually count as knowing that spell.
Yes, that should technically qualify, as a wizard counts as knowing all the spells in their spellbook, even if they aren't capable of casting them.Last edited by Crake; 2021-04-10 at 04:31 AM.
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2021-04-10, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
Planar Touchstone (Catalogues) is my usual go-to. Since the higher order abilities are cast as spells, it even arguably can cheese you into NDB without otherwise being a caster.
For earlier access than Divine Disciple/Contemplative, you can use something like Divine Oracle or Holt Warden that gives a specific domain and then UMD a wand of Substitute Domain to swap it out for Summoner.
If SLAs count as knowledge of the spell, and for this purpose it seems like they should. Touch of Summoning (though its an Eberron regional feat which might have a setting conflict with NDB) or the Draconic Rite of Passage can get you SM I.
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2021-04-10, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
Hmm that is troublesome. Funny that the wording is that way when NDB can explicitly qualify through divine casting and generally it seems that PrC's are written with the assumption that Cleric and Druid are the only actual divine casters.
Yes, that should technically qualify, as a wizard counts as knowing all the spells in their spellbook, even if they aren't capable of casting them.Originally Posted by SRD
Ah I knew that PT (Catalogues) would give access to the domain power, I forgot about Higher-Order Uses. It's pretty explicit that it allows you to cast spells from that domain, but now it does make me wonder if that counts for the "knowing" part...
Touch of Summoning is about as straightforward as I could have asked for! I knew there'd be a feat like that out there somewhere.
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2021-04-10, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2019
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2021-04-10, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
Argue that knowledge arcane gives you knowledge of summon monster. And that spellcraft teaches you how it is cast Alternatively add a rank in knowledge:summon monster.
Hope this helps!
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2021-04-11, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Getting Access to Summon Monster
I know you’re joking but in all honesty, how meaningful is the phrase “must know X spell” when most other instances of casting requirements are phrased “must be able to cast X spell” or “must have X spell known”?
It may very well be possible that simply being aware of Summon Monster spells and capable of casting 4th level spells qualifies you for NDB.