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  1. - Top - End - #961
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    So set details coming out. Man I just love Eldraine.

    Good luck Syr Ginger. May your vengeance on the planeswalkers be swift and merciless.
    Yeah the art for this set is always AMAZING!

    Im a big fan of a few cards in this set, like Hylda of the Icy Crown. Looks like Queen of Ice got dethroned LOL! I want to put it in the 99 of another Azorius deck I have that was pretty much tapping opponents creature already.

    Kellan, the Fae-Blooded will be awesome in my Wyleth wheel deck. His art is amazing and his effects are too!

    Im super disappointed Greta, Sweettooth Scourge has a so-so effect. But the art is amazing, I still might get a playmat of her if there is one!

  2. - Top - End - #962
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I just pillowforted the hardest anyone has ever pillowfort. Details below.
    Spoiler: invincible pillowfort
    Show
    I had MutaBook combo set up and a Kaya the Inexorable emblem. I used the emblem plus a copy of Majestic Winston to give the land 3 instances of Ward (2) and I had an Urza's Sylex available (via Kaya) in exile. I had also gotten 2 Shield counters onto the Mutavault and had a Vraska, Betrayal's Sting in exile (again, fetchable with Kaya) to proliferate it once per turn

    A puzzle, because I'm curious: Is there any way whatsoever my combo could hypothetically be overcome (after being fully set-up)? Assume my opponents have the full Vintage cardpool as well as all Arena-exclusive cards, with no limit on number of copies. There are, for the purpose of this scenario, nine such opponents in three teams of three (whereas I'm alone) and the puzzle is solved if any opponent wins or if I lose (but not if the game is a draw)

    EDIT: Let's also suppose (in order to give a finite-but-very-long window for my opponents) that I have 300 cards remaining in my library (even though in actuality I only ever included 87 in my deck+sideboard) as well as that the only way I can win is by Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, and that the only optional actions I take from this point forward are to use Kaya's emblem to bring in whatever legend I most need once per turn (Sylex by default, Vraska first round and whenever the 'vault drops below 3 shield-counters, Jace if my library's empty) and to use Vraska's 0-coster to proliferate the 'vault when it's below 3 shields.

    EDIT 2: I just found five solutions to the puzzle already. Never mind.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2023-08-22 at 01:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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  3. - Top - End - #963
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Theoretically brute force, I suppose? If you have arbitrary amounts of mana and can throw a series of land removal spells larger than your number of shield counters in one turn, then kill you immediately? Not that any reasonable deck would have so many land removal spells. Possibly some kind of copy/recurrsion deck.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2023-08-22 at 03:44 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #964
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Theoretically brute force, I suppose? If you have arbitrary amounts of mana and can throw a series of land removal spells larger than your number of shield counters in one turn, then kill you immediately? Not that any reasonable deck would have so many land removal spells. Possibly some kind of copy/recurrsion deck.
    Keep in mind that they each start each turn with six lands and no other permanents (so they're unlikely to have "arbitrary amounts of mana") and that any targeted land-removal gets countered unless they pay 2 three times.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2023-08-22 at 04:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.

  5. - Top - End - #965
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    True, once you got all your things established, it's nearly impossible. I forgot about the six lands, no permanents.
    That should probably stop it, unless we think of clearly ridiculous power nine levels of jank (i.e. the person draws a series of ancestral recalls, moxes, dark rituals and land destructions).
    Then, yeah. "Exile everything" or "remove all counters from everything" are probably the only things that can really do it. And you can probably come back from that, even, because they won't have the mana to kill you immediately.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2023-08-22 at 05:19 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #966
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I just pillowforted the hardest anyone has ever pillowfort. Details below.
    Spoiler: invincible pillowfort
    Show
    I had MutaBook combo set up and a Kaya the Inexorable emblem. I used the emblem plus a copy of Majestic Winston to give the land 3 instances of Ward (2) and I had an Urza's Sylex available (via Kaya) in exile. I had also gotten 2 Shield counters onto the Mutavault and had a Vraska, Betrayal's Sting in exile (again, fetchable with Kaya) to proliferate it once per turn

    A puzzle, because I'm curious: Is there any way whatsoever my combo could hypothetically be overcome (after being fully set-up)? Assume my opponents have the full Vintage cardpool as well as all Arena-exclusive cards, with no limit on number of copies. There are, for the purpose of this scenario, nine such opponents in three teams of three (whereas I'm alone) and the puzzle is solved if any opponent wins or if I lose (but not if the game is a draw)

    EDIT: Let's also suppose (in order to give a finite-but-very-long window for my opponents) that I have 300 cards remaining in my library (even though in actuality I only ever included 87 in my deck+sideboard) as well as that the only way I can win is by Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, and that the only optional actions I take from this point forward are to use Kaya's emblem to bring in whatever legend I most need once per turn (Sylex by default, Vraska first round and whenever the 'vault drops below 3 shield-counters, Jace if my library's empty) and to use Vraska's 0-coster to proliferate the 'vault when it's below 3 shields.

    EDIT 2: I just found five solutions to the puzzle already. Never mind.
    Saffi Eriksdotter + Reveillark + Karmic Guide + Phyrexian Altar/Ashnod's Altar + Archon of Justice can eventually exile each opponent's entire board (lands included) through any amount of ward (though it doesn't beat hexproof or shroud - though there are colourless cards and green cards that do). Once the Saffi player has the loop going, it's trivial for them to draw their whole deck with Mentor of the Meek or put every creature in their deck onto the battlefield via Pattern of Rebirth + Boonweaver Giant. From there, they play Blasting Station or Altar of Dementia and ping you to death or mill you out entirely. With Kaya emblem, milling you out isn't a guaranteed kill (barring something like Drannith Magistrate), so victory would probably happen with Blasting Station.

    Edit: With only 6 starting mana and no non-land permanents in play, some shenanigans need to happen. I found a way to do it by adding some red into the combo, though it should be possible via black as well (using something like Dark Ritual). Black and red cards make the kill too simple, though, so I'm not suggesting alternate kill conditions. This requires the Saffi player to have 6 cards in hand or otherwise available (Phyrexian Altar, Saffi Eriksdotter, Tinder Wall, Manamorphose, Renegade Rallier, and Mentor of the Meek), but it's technically possible. Rallier or the card draw engine can be the top card of their library, because Manamorphose draws a card. There are a couple of other things that can stand in for Rallier if we go off via Ashnod's Altar instead, though getting a card-draw engine into play is tricky with only colorless mana.
    1. Cast Phyrexian Altar (3)
    2. Cast Saffi (WG)
    3. Cast Tinder Wall (G)
    4. Sacrifice Tinder wall for RR, use it to cast Manamorphose for WG
    5. Sacrifice Saffi to Phyrexian altar for (1)
    6. Cast Renegade Rallier, (WG1) then do the loop with Saffi + Rallier to generate arbitrary amounts of colored mana
    7. Cast everything else to execute the combo (or play Mentor of the Meek or similar and draw the necessary cards, then cast them)
    Last edited by Amidus Drexel; 2023-08-22 at 07:05 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #967
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I just pillowforted the hardest anyone has ever pillowfort. Details below.
    Spoiler: invincible pillowfort
    Show
    I had MutaBook combo set up and a Kaya the Inexorable emblem. I used the emblem plus a copy of Majestic Winston to give the land 3 instances of Ward (2) and I had an Urza's Sylex available (via Kaya) in exile. I had also gotten 2 Shield counters onto the Mutavault and had a Vraska, Betrayal's Sting in exile (again, fetchable with Kaya) to proliferate it once per turn

    A puzzle, because I'm curious: Is there any way whatsoever my combo could hypothetically be overcome (after being fully set-up)? Assume my opponents have the full Vintage cardpool as well as all Arena-exclusive cards, with no limit on number of copies. There are, for the purpose of this scenario, nine such opponents in three teams of three (whereas I'm alone) and the puzzle is solved if any opponent wins or if I lose (but not if the game is a draw)

    EDIT: Let's also suppose (in order to give a finite-but-very-long window for my opponents) that I have 300 cards remaining in my library (even though in actuality I only ever included 87 in my deck+sideboard) as well as that the only way I can win is by Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, and that the only optional actions I take from this point forward are to use Kaya's emblem to bring in whatever legend I most need once per turn (Sylex by default, Vraska first round and whenever the 'vault drops below 3 shield-counters, Jace if my library's empty) and to use Vraska's 0-coster to proliferate the 'vault when it's below 3 shields.

    EDIT 2: I just found five solutions to the puzzle already. Never mind.
    1- Tuck or Bounce the mutavault with an un-counterable effect, Chaos Warp via Boseiju Who Shelters All for instance. There's a few Boomerangs that do it as well, but most of the actively playable ones say non-land. You can skip the uncounterable section and just pay the ward cost a few times if you have a way to get the mana, but with 6 lands and no non-land permanents that's more difficult than I feel like devoting headspace to figure out.
    2- Win the game. This part's easy since now there's no restriction on how you do that. Thoracle combo is probably the least amount of material needed and still fits under 6 mana with Chaos Warp.
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  8. - Top - End - #968
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I ulted Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim and then highlighted the spent Wishclaw Talisman I had sent my opponent, simply because it was the obviously-worst permanent for them to pick.

    They actually did as I suggested, and since they conceded shortly thereafter (and Arena has no builtin chat) I genuinely couldn't tell if they thought my joke was somehow legit advice, or if they played along because they were gonna lose anyway.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2023-09-03 at 04:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.

  9. - Top - End - #969
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    A friend gifted me his Rhystic Study he pulled from my Sealed Event winning Pack...

    Now I feel guilty selling it, I feel guilty playing it (because It is hands down one of the most annoying cards in Commander) and I feel guilty doing nothing with it.

  10. - Top - End - #970
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I really wish there was a sugary monster or legendary sugary monster commander in the latest Eldraine set. The Bant one is not bad but not the flavor I was hoping for.

  11. - Top - End - #971
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Spore View Post
    A friend gifted me his Rhystic Study he pulled from my Sealed Event winning Pack...

    Now I feel guilty selling it, I feel guilty playing it (because It is hands down one of the most annoying cards in Commander) and I feel guilty doing nothing with it.
    -Emphasis mine-

    I'm confused as to how this item isn't yours to do with as you wish. Regardless though, a friend should be able to understand your discomfort with playing a card. If you're going to get more EV out of trading that card in for other things, that's your prerogative.

    If it's going to bother you doing something with the card other than sleeving it up in a deck you don't play often, then having an open conversation with the friend about it is where you need to start.
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  12. - Top - End - #972
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Techwarrior View Post
    -Emphasis mine-
    I gave it to him sealed for buying our dinner after the event. I won it, he opened it as his. He does not play much, he never plays Blue, so he figured I should get it.

    If anything I am thinking of buying him a Jeska's Will or some black staple for his Rakdos deck. So we both have a bomb in our decks.

  13. - Top - End - #973
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I just ult'd the new Ashiok twice in one game, targeting myself the first time. It was way less reckless than it sounds, for various reasons I don't particularly care to list, but I can definitely confirm that the results definitely fit with Ashiok's personality-gimmick of "Hey, wouldn't it be ****ed up if ____?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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  14. - Top - End - #974
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I just ult'd the new Ashiok twice in one game, targeting myself the first time. It was way less reckless than it sounds, for various reasons I don't particularly care to list, but I can definitely confirm that the results definitely fit with Ashiok's personality-gimmick of "Hey, wouldn't it be ****ed up if ____?"
    "Anyways, I'm Rod Serling."

    ...Now I really want Ashiok as the host of their own Twilight Zone series, where they actually put random people through all kinds of screwed-up scenarios.
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  15. - Top - End - #975
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I could use some advice. Some of my friends have a weekly boardgame night and we frequently end up playing Commander - they roped me into a game a month or two ago and I've picked up some decks of my own since. One of the people I play with has a Mizzix of the Izmagnus spellslinger control deck that's hell to play against; tons of counterspells, board wipes, at least one infinite I've seen, and on more than one occasion he's stolen my board or commander from me.

    Mostly what I've learned is to be hyper aggressive towards him. He doesn't have much of a board presence and if I don't do something to take him out early or spend my removal on his commander, the experience counters start to stack up fast and he just kinda goes off. Not that I make a lot of headway, I usually have to rebuild my board every other turn it feels like (I think there was one game I replayed Gyre Sage and Shalai and Hallar like three or four times back to back, I could not get anything to stick). I should probably also try to squeeze more interaction/protection into my decks, but there's only so much I can do there.

    My question is, what sort of deck is fun to play in that environment? So far the best ideas I've had are Muldrotha or Henzie "Toolbox" Torre. Muldrotha offers a ton of value and I basically only have to care about them getting yoinked to the other team. Henzie would probably be more fun, not only is it actively bad to remove him, but I can blitz out big chunky guys to hit people in the face and serve as sac targets without falling behind on card draw.

  16. - Top - End - #976
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I am biased, but I have a Doran the Siege Tower deck that I enjoy playing.

    The deck is almost entirely made out of value engines, tutors, Austere Command, Cataclysm (oh my god does Cataclysm punish Mizzix type decks I love it) and things like Mirari's Wake for massive mana advantage. (Lord of Extinction is also very fun with a Behemoth Sledge.) Yosei the Morning Star with a recursion engine (budget version is Volrath's Stronghold + Phyrexian Tower that I can get with a Knight of the Reliquary, but Debtor's Knell works well) is especially brutal against combo players. I can afford to durdle around with these value engines because Doran the Siege Tower is going to be swinging on turn 4, quite possibly with a Sword of Feast and Famine, and three hits of 7 damage means you will die to commander damage if you fail to interact with me. Sorin Markov is also known to put the fear of Doran in players. In your particular case, you may wish to focus on having access to Sword of Fire and Ice to prevent Doran from being stolen too early, but something as simple as Phyrexian Tower or Homeward Path obtained via Knight of the Reliquary (which can be obtained via Eladamri's Call or Demonic Tutor or Survival of the Fittest or any number of other creature tutors) can act as risk reduction for someone stealing your commander.

    Also, and this is slightly understated, but Doran costs 3 (and is thus really cheap to play after being bounced), has 5 toughness (meaning that burn has issues easily killing him) and is in Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile colors. Being tutor-heavy means Yawgmoth's Will is an insane value proposition.
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  17. - Top - End - #977
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    I could use some advice. Some of my friends have a weekly boardgame night and we frequently end up playing Commander - they roped me into a game a month or two ago and I've picked up some decks of my own since. One of the people I play with has a Mizzix of the Izmagnus spellslinger control deck that's hell to play against; tons of counterspells, board wipes, at least one infinite I've seen, and on more than one occasion he's stolen my board or commander from me.

    Mostly what I've learned is to be hyper aggressive towards him. He doesn't have much of a board presence and if I don't do something to take him out early or spend my removal on his commander, the experience counters start to stack up fast and he just kinda goes off. Not that I make a lot of headway, I usually have to rebuild my board every other turn it feels like (I think there was one game I replayed Gyre Sage and Shalai and Hallar like three or four times back to back, I could not get anything to stick). I should probably also try to squeeze more interaction/protection into my decks, but there's only so much I can do there.

    My question is, what sort of deck is fun to play in that environment? So far the best ideas I've had are Muldrotha or Henzie "Toolbox" Torre. Muldrotha offers a ton of value and I basically only have to care about them getting yoinked to the other team. Henzie would probably be more fun, not only is it actively bad to remove him, but I can blitz out big chunky guys to hit people in the face and serve as sac targets without falling behind on card draw.
    So its pratically boardwipe tribal... Maybe cat tribal aggro deck with Arahbo, Roar of the World? Get as much 1 to 3 mana cost cats on the board and charge him.

    Maybe Norin the Wary ETB deck? Hard to destroy commander that one is.

    Otherwise Henzie "Toolbox" Torre is a good choice.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I think it depends on how deep you want to go on the aggressive side of things.

    Edgar Markov Vampire Tribal will definitely go fast and has a decent amount of protection you can put in for that. But it is pretty high on the power scale and might be too powerful for a given group - eminence is very silly.

    Various goblin lists might be fun to try as well.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    I could use some advice. Some of my friends have a weekly boardgame night and we frequently end up playing Commander - they roped me into a game a month or two ago and I've picked up some decks of my own since. One of the people I play with has a Mizzix of the Izmagnus spellslinger control deck that's hell to play against; tons of counterspells, board wipes, at least one infinite I've seen, and on more than one occasion he's stolen my board or commander from me.

    Mostly what I've learned is to be hyper aggressive towards him. He doesn't have much of a board presence and if I don't do something to take him out early or spend my removal on his commander, the experience counters start to stack up fast and he just kinda goes off. Not that I make a lot of headway, I usually have to rebuild my board every other turn it feels like (I think there was one game I replayed Gyre Sage and Shalai and Hallar like three or four times back to back, I could not get anything to stick). I should probably also try to squeeze more interaction/protection into my decks, but there's only so much I can do there.

    My question is, what sort of deck is fun to play in that environment? So far the best ideas I've had are Muldrotha or Henzie "Toolbox" Torre. Muldrotha offers a ton of value and I basically only have to care about them getting yoinked to the other team. Henzie would probably be more fun, not only is it actively bad to remove him, but I can blitz out big chunky guys to hit people in the face and serve as sac targets without falling behind on card draw.
    Aggressively pressuring the control deck is definitely the way to win. If counterspells are your main concern, I'd look at G/R or G/R/x commanders (there are quite a few cards in those colors that make your spells uncounterable, and they're usually good haste colors too) or play some flash threats. If you're more worried about the boardwipes or the creature theft, any sacrifice/graveyard value deck is going to make them think twice about killing everything. Against lots of bounce spells, look for cards that have strong cast triggers or etb triggers so you're still getting value from casting your creatures again.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    I could use some advice. Some of my friends have a weekly boardgame night and we frequently end up playing Commander - they roped me into a game a month or two ago and I've picked up some decks of my own since. One of the people I play with has a Mizzix of the Izmagnus spellslinger control deck that's hell to play against; tons of counterspells, board wipes, at least one infinite I've seen, and on more than one occasion he's stolen my board or commander from me.

    Mostly what I've learned is to be hyper aggressive towards him. He doesn't have much of a board presence and if I don't do something to take him out early or spend my removal on his commander, the experience counters start to stack up fast and he just kinda goes off. Not that I make a lot of headway, I usually have to rebuild my board every other turn it feels like (I think there was one game I replayed Gyre Sage and Shalai and Hallar like three or four times back to back, I could not get anything to stick). I should probably also try to squeeze more interaction/protection into my decks, but there's only so much I can do there.

    My question is, what sort of deck is fun to play in that environment? So far the best ideas I've had are Muldrotha or Henzie "Toolbox" Torre. Muldrotha offers a ton of value and I basically only have to care about them getting yoinked to the other team. Henzie would probably be more fun, not only is it actively bad to remove him, but I can blitz out big chunky guys to hit people in the face and serve as sac targets without falling behind on card draw.
    Izzet cannot deal with Enchantments besides things like Cyclonic Rift, killing you the player, or countering the enchantment. Enchantress style decks should run right in the face of this deck archetype, while also being a pretty good archetype that isn't actively just hating out a particular deck. It would probably help to know how the player is going infinite, since some forms of disruption (removal) aren't good against a lot of izzet combos.

    That's something you really need to think about when you're building a deck in regards to a particular playgroup. i.e. "Is this card/deck just here to spit in the face of X" and if so, why you're doing that. I have a Feather, the Redeemed deck that runs a copy of Pyroblast. That's an incredibly narrow card, but Feather cares about casting instants and targeting things, so it's not entirely dead in non-blue matchups. It also really helps shores up a particular weakness of her archetype.

    Commander is a group format, which requires people come back to the table to continue. That means there has to be some amount of concessions given to making sure that people are playing reasonable things together. If this guy runs the table every time he breaks out the deck, maybe some form of politics either in or out of game to prevent him from doing that or getting too far ahead is needed. If not, starting an arms race against that particular deck/opponent is also a thing you can do, but it has to be done deliberately and with care.
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  21. - Top - End - #981
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Techwarrior View Post
    It would probably help to know how the player is going infinite, since some forms of disruption (removal) aren't good against a lot of izzet combos.
    If I remember right it was Mana Geyser + Reiterate into I think Comet Storm?

    I don't know the full scope of the deck, but I know he's got plenty of draw, tutors, and a handful of graveyard recursion effects. I've also seen Expropriate and Reins of Power (funnily using my own board) come out of it as win conditions.

    That's something you really need to think about when you're building a deck in regards to a particular playgroup. i.e. "Is this card/deck just here to spit in the face of X" and if so, why you're doing that. I have a Feather, the Redeemed deck that runs a copy of Pyroblast. That's an incredibly narrow card, but Feather cares about casting instants and targeting things, so it's not entirely dead in non-blue matchups. It also really helps shores up a particular weakness of her archetype.
    For sure. There was definitely a part of me that was very spitefully thinking 'how can I ruin that deck in particular' in the moment where I was replaying my commander for the Nth time, but calmed down a bit after some thinking. I was looking at stax and curse enchantments or other forms of shenanigans like Zedruu the Greathearted, Ruric That, but ended up ruling them out because I don't want to make the game worse for everyone. That's why I was careful to ask what's fun, not just what wins.

    Commander is a group format, which requires people come back to the table to continue. That means there has to be some amount of concessions given to making sure that people are playing reasonable things together. If this guy runs the table every time he breaks out the deck, maybe some form of politics either in or out of game to prevent him from doing that or getting too far ahead is needed. If not, starting an arms race against that particular deck/opponent is also a thing you can do, but it has to be done deliberately and with care.
    I'll keep that in mind for next time. I feel bad bullying one person until they're out, but it feels like that's correct unless someone else is presenting a lot of immediate threats.

    I do think Henzie might be a fun investment anyway, I found a deck list that I like and I'll tweak a bit, but playtesting that initial version has been really fun. It feels so absurdly fast with tons of card draw pushing out a flood of big creatures that I frequently get to rotate in and out of the graveyard. It can deal some damage for sure, but it might struggle to secure a win.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    X based damage spells are very easy to avoid with anything that gives yourself hexproof and things like Lazotep plating, Deflecting Swat, Teferi's Protection, and similar effects. Counterspells are also good against them.

    I'm guessing the problem is that the player is getting their draw engines up unmolested though. If they're keeping things like Archmage Emeritus or being allowed to Blue Sun's Zenith for 15 you're losing that game.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Yesterday I witnessed Baba Lysaga in action. I believed the builders when they said it is difficult to pull off and very finnicky...but gods does good deck building ever help her. I understimated how much Golgari can just recurse their graveyard to get token role enchantments.

    It stands up faster than other decks after wipes making wiping her actually a futile thing. I have found no way for a casual table - aside from hyper specific stuff like hand disruption, tempoing her out, or general **** like Bojuka Bogging her graveyard recursion.

    Plus some cards counting for two or even three types is mental! Absolute sleeper commander.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    What do you think of the idea of an enchantment with "If an opponent would gain any amount of life, instead they gain that much life minus one and each other opponent loses one life."
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    What do you think of the idea of an enchantment with "If an opponent would gain any amount of life, instead they gain that much life minus one and each other opponent loses one life."
    That seems like it would be worse than Tainted Remedy in most situations (almost strictly worse in 1v1), but with some effort you can make it work similarly (make them gain life in increments of 1 instead of a huge amount all at once). My assumption is that it's either useless or a combo piece; you're not going to get much value off of it in normal situations. Probably playable in the kinds of decks that want Tainted Remedy (doubly so if it's at a cheaper mana cost).
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I made a custom commander card for mtg and played a few matches with it online. Maybe I'm not that good of a player, but I'm wondering what power level it is? I feel it's a 5-6, but maybe it's because I'm not terribly competitive.

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    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2023-10-22 at 05:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Seems fine, power wise? A rating of 5-6, on a scale of one to ten where 7 is 'pushed mechanic' and 10 is 'bah-roken' seems about right.

    From a high-level perspective: 3UUU, Sacrifice a creature or artifact you control: Clone target Artifact you control is not an inherently threatening effect. Ward 3 is powerful, but manageable, especially on a fairly fragile body.

    The potential point of concern is that some players would not realize that Ward, being a triggered ability, does nothing after a spell is cast and targeting something. You cannot pay 1UU to mana leak something targeting your artifact or creature, but many new players will try to do just that.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Seems fine, power wise? A rating of 5-6, on a scale of one to ten where 7 is 'pushed mechanic' and 10 is 'bah-roken' seems about right.

    From a high-level perspective: 3UUU, Sacrifice a creature or artifact you control: Clone target Artifact you control is not an inherently threatening effect. Ward 3 is powerful, but manageable, especially on a fairly fragile body.

    The potential point of concern is that some players would not realize that Ward, being a triggered ability, does nothing after a spell is cast and targeting something. You cannot pay 1UU to mana leak something targeting your artifact or creature, but many new players will try to do just that.
    The ward thing is good imo, because I was trying to make it fun to play, but not too spicy.

    Four more things to note:
    1. Clone any artifact, even ones you don't control.
    2. Turning it into a copy doesn't proc etb effects. I discovered that when I copied Talion, the Kindly Lord.
    3. If your opponent has Horror creatures, Phyrexian creatures (like praetor's...), changelings, etc. You can turn them into harmless artifacts like mana rocks or food tokens (even if it's an opponent who controls the food token).
    4. If you use the first ability (see omnibian) on a noncreature artifact, it won't become a creature. It'll be like a vehicle with no crew ability. You can turn a noncreature artifact into a creature if you have an artifact creature on the battlefield like frogmite for example. Turn a food token into a 2/2 Horror that isn't a creature, a 3/3 Phyrexian Horror with Ward 3 that still isn't a creature. Then into a copy of frogmite with ward 3. Then you can turn that into a 3/3 Phyrexian Horror with ward 3. But that's 9 mana (5uuuu) to get a 3/3 with ward 3. So it depends on how desperate the situation is.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2023-10-22 at 07:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    4. If you use the first ability (see omnibian) on a noncreature artifact, it won't become a creature. It'll be like a vehicle with no crew ability. You can turn a noncreature artifact into a creature if you have an artifact creature on the battlefield like frogmite for example. Turn a food token into a 2/2 Horror that isn't a creature, a 3/3 Phyrexian Horror with Ward 3 that still isn't a creature. Then into a copy of frogmite with ward 3. Then you can turn that into a 3/3 Phyrexian Horror with ward 3. But that's 9 mana (5uuuu) to get a 3/3 with ward 3. So it depends on how desperate the situation is.
    If itís not a creature it wonít have any creature subtypes and wonít be able to be targeted by any of the later abilities.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    If itís not a creature it wonít have any creature subtypes and wonít be able to be targeted by any of the later abilities.
    I'm going to have to include a special errata then that it retains them even though it ordinarily wouldn't (similar to the tribal type I think). Normally, I'd consider letting them be creatures, but I want to keep the power level lower. It's already fun enough imo. Now I just need to figure out what kind of cards to put into my deck because I'm W/L at 1/2 at the moment. Currently working with this decklist: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5938687#paper

    Thanks for pointing that out though. I did not know about that, thought reconfigure cards didn't have that problem, but scryfall rulings section verified.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2023-10-23 at 07:37 PM.
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