Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spikes

[Emmerlaus]

I guess I'm looking for stuff that encourages interaction from my opponents, group hug or Monarchy kind of stuff. The only examples I've found in Red/Blue (the colors I'm most interested in) have been Kraum and Ludivec, but some more opponent vs. opponent aggression (like with Breena) would be nice if possible.

The how isn't too terribly important, it's not that hard to keep important cards alive when you're running blue.

Interesting... but group hug isnt very Izzet in color. Its quite the challenge...

Would you be willing to dip in another color by any chances? because otherwise, I feel Pramikon, Sky Rampart could be something you enjoy.

Would you be interested in flipping coins strategy otherwise?

You could also aim to have a top deck strategy with a lot of political cards inside.

... Or simply go with Nin, The Pain Artist? Having a removal in the Command Zone can be useful? And its the closest to group hug strategy I can find in those colors lol

[Tvtyrant]

I guess I'm looking for stuff that encourages interaction from my opponents, group hug or Monarchy kind of stuff. The only examples I've found in Red/Blue (the colors I'm most interested in) have been Kraum and Ludivec, but some more opponent vs. opponent aggression (like with Breena) would be nice if possible.

The how isn't too terribly important, it's not that hard to keep important cards alive when you're running blue.

Nin the Pain Artist is one, you kill the biggest threat and let them draw that many cards in return each round.

Zara Renegade Recruiter if you use flicker effects, giving people free beaters after you get a turn with them?

[Emmerlaus]

Nin the Pain Artist is one, you kill the biggest threat and let them draw that many cards in return each round.

Zara Renegade Recruiter if you use flicker effects, giving people free beaters after you get a turn with them?

Im glad to see Im not the only one thinking Nin the Pain Artist should fit the bill LOL

... in what world is this guy black?

Well he could be tanned, true... but I thought we already had Radagast the Brown? lol

[Androgeus]

And obviously without that terrible "Walker" verbiage (which will just be replaced with the standard 2/2 zombie).

Unlikely as that would be a functional change. Walker tokens are named “Walker”, the regular zombie tokens are named zombie.

[Binks]

Unlikely as that would be a functional change. Walker tokens are named “Walker”, the regular zombie tokens are named zombie.

WotC already said they might make mechanical alterations when reprinting them (https://twitter.com/MTGSecretLair/st...95989326053377). Doubtful they'd use "walker" on a regular mtg plane, so more likely any walking dead cards that make those would just make 2/2 zombies and be technically different cards but functionally the same thing.

[Man_Over_Game]

WotC already said they might make mechanical alterations when reprinting them (https://twitter.com/MTGSecretLair/st...95989326053377). Doubtful they'd use "walker" on a regular mtg plane, so more likely any walking dead cards that make those would just make 2/2 zombies and be technically different cards but functionally the same thing.

What's funny is that the only thing that mentions Walkers are the ETB effects. Anything that triggers off of them (like Michonne or Daryl) uses the term Zombie for those triggers instead.

So "Walker" is just a fancy way of saying "2/2 Zombie" for most mechanical purposes. The only time I think the name would be mechanically relevant is if you had to affect cards with a specific name (like Maelstrom Pulse), as "Walker" and "Zombie" would affect two different tokens.

[Amidus Drexel]

My wife and I have recently got into Pauper after a few years of waffling on the format, and have a few decks' worth of cards in the mail. Currently, we're putting together Chatterstorm, BW Pestilence, UB Faeries, and Affinity, but we might end up building some other decks too (I'm a fan of Walls combo, and my wife rather likes the RG/x Cascade deck).

Does anyone else here play Pauper?

WotC already said they might make mechanical alterations when reprinting them (https://twitter.com/MTGSecretLair/st...95989326053377). Doubtful they'd use "walker" on a regular mtg plane, so more likely any walking dead cards that make those would just make 2/2 zombies and be technically different cards but functionally the same thing.

If the cards are technically different (even if functionally identical) without errata that indicates they're the same card, you can play more of them in tournament formats, which could be relevant. Probably not terribly likely, though (and errata-ing "Walker token" to "2/2 zombie token" is not difficult).

[Man_Over_Game]

If the cards are technically different (even if functionally identical) without errata that indicates they're the same card, you can play more of them in tournament formats, which could be relevant. Probably not terribly likely, though (and errata-ing "Walker token" to "2/2 zombie token" is not difficult).

The Universes Beyond cards will be tournament legal, and they'll be considered equivalent to their MTG-Canon duplicate. So if they ever print The Walking Dead MTG cards as canon-equivalents, you can only have 4 of those combined copies like any other card. They'll give them a special rule treatment to reflect that they're the same card.

Apparently they considered giving the UB cards a unique border, but their R&D team was worried about folks not treating them as "Real" MTG cards. Judging by the response in this thread, I'd say it was a good hunch.

My wife and I have recently got into Pauper after a few years of waffling on the format, and have a few decks' worth of cards in the mail. Currently, we're putting together Chatterstorm, BW Pestilence, UB Faeries, and Affinity, but we might end up building some other decks too (I'm a fan of Walls combo, and my wife rather likes the RG/x Cascade deck).

Does anyone else here play Pauper?

I really want to, but I've just got my wife back into Magic and she's a bit skittish about trying new game modes. She built her first blue deck after years of despising them and found it pretty fun! (Although she found it incredibly exhausting, which I kinda agree with...)

[Emmerlaus]

Spoiler season have started!

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-set/...ad-werewolves/

Opinion so far: Coven is not interesting, Decayed is not for me BUT I like the Disturb mechanic. Althought I dont play the black color that much, Void Maw just got a new mechanic to build around

I have a Zelda 64 EDH deck and Im now hoping for a way to put a Daybound/Nightbound card inside. Something fitting the theme though...

[LansXero]

Just venting, but if you play Arena, know your own stuff please. Stupid dungeon delving decks slowing drafts down when they take forever to resolve their stuff.

Also, if you've lost, be kind and concede. Nobody wants to go through the motions when its a foregone conclussion.

[Dienekes]

Spoiler season have started!

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-set/...ad-werewolves/

Opinion so far: Coven is not interesting, Decayed is not for me BUT I like the Disturb mechanic. Althought I dont play the black color that much, Void Maw just got a new mechanic to build around

I have a Zelda 64 EDH deck and Im now hoping for a way to put a Daybound/Nightbound card inside. Something fitting the theme though...

Hmm, transforming creature flashback seems like a mechanic I will find very boring but will definitely be very useful.

Well that might be a bit harsh. Perhaps it will push players to being more aggressive with attacking with their creatures. That could be fun. But I think it will probably just get slotted into those silly sacrifice decks.

[enderlord99]

Also, if you've lost, be kind and concede. Nobody wants to go through the motions when its a foregone conclussion.

Did you really call me "nobody" just because I like to flex when I'm ahead?

[RayGallade]

Just venting, but if you play Arena, know your own stuff please. Stupid dungeon delving decks slowing drafts down when they take forever to resolve their stuff.

Also, if you've lost, be kind and concede. Nobody wants to go through the motions when its a foregone conclussion.

I'm going to push back on both of those points. There are times when I feel I need to evaluate the board state seriously before making my room choice if I pick up Venture cards. Making the correct decision can often mean the difference between having lethal and missing it.

As for "if you've lost," it depends on what you mean. Opponent is completely locked out (eg: Rule of Law and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets ultimate) without any outs, sure I can understand the frustration. Nine Lives, Solemnity, and a pair of Sterling Groves? Your opponent might be running a sweeper that hits your combo pieces. Got your opponent down to one life and you're still at twenty? You could always run out of steam or the other player might stabilize and turn the tables on you. It could even be that your opponent wants to let you play your fancy combo out.

Granted, this comes from someone who runs Baral, Chief of Compliance to lock his opponents out of Historic Brawl. Got tired enough of intricate combos that I decided the easiest way to stop them was simply not to let my opponent resolve anything.

[LansXero]

I'm going to push back on both of those points. There are times when I feel I need to evaluate the board state seriously before making my room choice if I pick up Venture cards. Making the correct decision can often mean the difference between having lethal and missing it.

At times perhaps. But every single time it triggers they take forever.

As for "if you've lost," it depends on what you mean

.

I mean literally lost. Like, there is lethal on board once everything resolves and you're tapped out. Letting the triggers go to overtime is an ass move.

[enderlord99]

I mean literally lost. Like, there is lethal on board once everything resolves and you're tapped out. Letting the triggers go to overtime is an ass move.

Oh! You were specifically complaining about deliberate roping?

I agree then.

[Emmerlaus]

Im surprised nobody is talking about the new set... Should we talk about it in spoilers or not?

[LaZodiac]

The new set is good, and the story they've been releasing for it is fantastic. I just think most people here don't care about it, unfortunately (I do though).

[Dienekes]

The new set is good, and the story they've been releasing for it is fantastic. I just think most people here don't care about it, unfortunately (I do though).

Out of curiosity, what's making it good?

I went through a big read of MTG story early covid and kind of drained out of them. But I'm willing to read werewolves absolutely destroy some of the planeswalker crew.

[Tvtyrant]

Out of curiosity, what's making it good?

I went through a big read of MTG story early covid and kind of drained out of them. But I'm willing to read werewolves absolutely destroy some of the planeswalker crew.

I'm extremely sick of Innistrad, so I'm basically skipping this set.

[Man_Over_Game]

Out of curiosity, what's making it good?

I went through a big read of MTG story early covid and kind of drained out of them. But I'm willing to read werewolves absolutely destroy some of the planeswalker crew.

I'll try to summarize it, but it will be a bit simplified for those who aren't familiar with what the heck's going on.

Innistrad is Soren's (Vampire Plainswalker) hometown and lifelong project. Before the Battle For Zendikar, Soren and Nahiri (Stone Magic Plainswalker) were good friends and worked together to stop the Eldrazi when they first showed up. However, just before they showed up again, they had a disagreement, his psychotic angel bodyguard detected Nahiri as a threat, and Soren resorted to sealing away Nahiri into a stone prison that is normally used for demons just so neither Nahiri or his angel got destroyed for good.

Just after the Eldrazi showed up the second time to wreck Zendikar, Nahiri manages to break free. Seeing as how her world is destroyed, and her allies have forsaken her (when really she had just missed Soren who decided to leave her in the Helvault to make sure all the demons stayed in there too), she decides to take some revenge. Ugin, her other ally, is dead, so that leaves Soren. She decides to get creative, since she's really pissed about her homeworld being destroyed (after risking it the first time to seal away the Eldrazi).

So she uses her stone magic to build cryptoliths on Innistrad, essentially ley-line redirectors, to aim Innistrad's magic towards a ritual circle to summon Emrakul. His influence on the plain corrupts everything into having more and more Eldrazi mutations, until half the population are nothing but eldritch horrors.

A big battle happens, Soren gets trapped in a stone prison by Nahiri (how's that for ironic), Soren's last sane superangel barely manages to seal Emrakul in Innistrad's moon, and the influence of the Eldrazi is paused for a hot minute of MTG time (which is usually counted in centuries), Innistrad goes back to normal.

Well, kinda. Innistrad is a world of vampires and werewolves, kept in check by Soren and his angels. Thing is, werewolves just happen to be really affected by the fact that an eldritch titan is trapped in their power source, and neither Soren or most of his angels are around anymore, so the people are running into a few problems. But they figured out a solution: Magic.

So the new set is about a bunch of civilians trying to become hedge witches to protect themselves against vampires who always want to eat them, demons who always want to cheat them, and werewolves who now want to eat everything.





Innistrad sets are friggin' cool, probably some of the best design I've seen out of most MTG sets. I mean, just look at this guy: https://mythicspoiler.com/mid/cards/...tedbishop.html

Can't wait for the set to come in, really looking forward to it.

[Dienekes]

I'm extremely sick of Innistrad, so I'm basically skipping this set.

So, I've played MTG on and off for decades, and by essentially pure luck I have missed every Innistrad set. So I'm actually excited to finally play werewolves, they look kinda fun.

But I don't really know how to comment on the set really. Most of the stuff I tend to think is fun and thematic tends to gets beat pretty easily by actually well crafted decks.

So the new set is about a bunch of civilians trying to become hedge witches to protect themselves against vampires who always want to eat them, demons who always want to cheat them, and werewolves who now want to eat everything.

Thank you for the summery. But I kinda knew the run up. I was more asking "what makes this current batch of stories good?" from your or LaZodiac's perspective.

Because if it's just the planeswalkers faffing about doing their heroics, I'll probably skip it. if it is visceral and disturbing horror about rampaging werewolves eating said planeswalkers, yeah I might give it a read.

[enderlord99]

if it's just the planeswalkers faffing about doing their heroics, I'll probably skip it. if it is visceral and disturbing horror about rampaging werewolves eating said planeswalkers, yeah I might give it a read.

For now? I'd say skip.

[Man_Over_Game]

Because if it's just the planeswalkers faffing about doing their heroics, I'll probably skip it. if it is visceral and disturbing horror about rampaging werewolves eating said planeswalkers, yeah I might give it a read.

Innistrad's never really been about plainswalkers doing plainswalker things. It's usually caught in its own internal battles, because Soren's really paranoid and surrounded the whole plane with wards and angels. As of now, none of the revealed cards even mention plainswalkers in their flavor text or abilities besides the few local planeswalkers.

More than likely, it'll end with some kind of spell releasing Soren, or maybe some ritual to stop the werewolves breaks the moon and releases Emrakul. Shadows Over Innistrad/Eldritch Moon was a little bit more involved, with Jace acting as the local Sherlock Holmes, Liliana being bored and deciding to assist with undead, Nahiri trying to mess everything up, and Soren getting the Han Solo treatment, but even then their involvement revolved mostly around the local environment and not all that relevant in the Multiverse.

This time, it seems like planeswalkers won't get involved until the locals get them involved. So far, all that's known is that Teferi, Chandra and Kaya are being recruited to stop the Eternal Night (a super-evil, never-ending night that the Moon is slowly inflicting on Innistrad), although I imagine more dramatic stuff will happen in the following set, Crimson Vow. That seems to be the trend with Innistrad sets: A first set to ask a question, and a second set for an explosive answer.

[LaZodiac]

Innistrad's never really been about plainswalkers doing plainswalker things. It's usually caught in its own internal battles, because Soren's really paranoid and surrounded the whole plain with wards and angels. As of now, none of the revealed cards even mention plainswalkers.

More than likely, it'll end with some kind of spell releasing Soren, or maybe some ritual to stop the werewolves breaks the moon and releases Emrakul. Shadows Over Innistrad/Eldritch Moon was a little bit more involved, with Jace acting as the local Sherlock Holmes, Liliana being bored and deciding to assist with undead, Nahiri trying to mess everything up, and Soren getting the Han Solo treatment, but even then their involvement revolved mostly around the local environment and not all that relevant in the Multiverse.

This time, it seems like planeswalkers won't get involved until the locals get them involved. So far, all that's known is that Teferi, Chandra and Kaya are being recruited to stop the Eternal Night (a super-evil, never-ending night that the Moon is slowly inflicting on Innistrad), although I imagine more dramatic stuff will happen in the following set, Crimson Vow. That seems to be the trend with Innistrad sets: A first set to ask a question, and a second set for an explosive answer.

There was also a really nice story of Tefer meeting Wren, the cool dryad planeswalker.

[Emmerlaus]

Im a EDH (Commander) player and Im a big fan on some of the new cards like Croaking Counterpart and Heronblade Elite. But yeah, I won’t buy cards above 5 dollars in this set. Only cheap cards in the 99 for my decks. The white Adversary card could have fit in one of my deck but it’s not even that good.

But still, I like the Disturb mechanic. I hope they expand on it. I suspect they will for the next set. Bought a few cheap one for my new Vega deck. This way I’ll finally have an Azorius color deck!

[Dienekes]

So they made another set release trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQi3raUki7s

It's not as good as War of the Spark's or Throne of Eldraine's in my opinion. But it's fun.

[Emmerlaus]

So they made another set release trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQi3raUki7s

It's not as good as War of the Spark's or Throne of Eldraine's in my opinion. But it's fun.

Im not sure if I should laugh or cringe by the fact they gave the name Tim to a little boy in crutches... Im not sure if was deliberate or not LOL

[Personification]

So, I've played MTG on and off for decades, and by essentially pure luck I have missed every Innistrad set. So I'm actually excited to finally play werewolves, they look kinda fun.

But I don't really know how to comment on the set really. Most of the stuff I tend to think is fun and thematic tends to gets beat pretty easily by actually well crafted decks.



Thank you for the summery. But I kinda knew the run up. I was more asking "what makes this current batch of stories good?" from your or LaZodiac's perspective.

Because if it's just the planeswalkers faffing about doing their heroics, I'll probably skip it. if it is visceral and disturbing horror about rampaging werewolves eating said planeswalkers, yeah I might give it a read.

It's a bit of both. There's also witches doing witchy things if you are interested. If you really want to see people just getting gutted on Innistrad, I would recommend "A Gaze Blank and Pitiless" from SOI.

[LaZodiac]

There's also a fair number of side stories involving planebound people, some of whom are legendary cards in the set. The latest one featuring Rem and Vadrick fighting Stickfingers is really good (it also reveals Vadrick has a husband, and there's a cool old trans lady, if representation is a thing you care a lot about). Chandra also gets to be more gay in the main story.

[Dienekes]

It's a bit of both. There's also witches doing witchy things if you are interested. If you really want to see people just getting gutted on Innistrad, I would recommend "A Gaze Blank and Pitiless" from SOI.

Witches being witches can be fun, so long as it's you know actual horror. If it ain't horrifying it isn't really horror. It's just an adventure story dressed in Goth. But I'll look into A Gae Blank and Pitiless. It certainly sounds promising.

There's also a fair number of side stories involving planebound people, some of whom are legendary cards in the set. The latest one featuring Rem and Vadrick fighting Stickfingers is really good (it also reveals Vadrick has a husband, and there's a cool old trans lady, if representation is a thing you care a lot about). Chandra also gets to be more gay in the main story.

This is one of those things that mentally I am aware that having a more diverse cast is beneficial to society and allows people to see themselves portrayed as heroic in a narrative. Which is good and should be encouraged.

But has never actually increased or decreased my enjoyment of a story. Who people are in a relationship with is pretty much the least interesting part of a character. We're reading about terrifying monsters ripping apart townsfolk, cursing people into madness, and the very depths of the blackest part of the human psyche. I just never get excited about who people are interested in romantically.