Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spikes

[Fable Wright]

No sin, no hate, no rivalry stands in the face of evil this vast.

This is the most unrealistic part for me.

Mostly because I have no idea how the Gitrog monster could have been communicated with. Like. How? How does it comprehend the scale of the threat, and who reached out to it?

That said, I love the idea that Zendikar gives Phyrexia the most trouble due to its highly advanced immune system (the Roil).

"My immune system is so advanced that an entire civilization of D&D adventurers spawned for the sole purpose of surviving it. The adventurers are now also part of my immune system. Phyrexia, do you really think an endless series of quantifiable-CR encounters can take me down when the ELDRAZI failed?"

[LaZodiac]

That would be interesting, haven't seen Sheoldred's new art, I will eventually :P But it's interesting. Would that mean that Sheoldred could get other color mana? Would make Sheoldred funny if it survives, it can bring back Old Phyrexia with it's black core, while still having some of the New Phyrexia multicolor. And Sheoldred being black, and fed up with Elesh Norn, could just simply bolt. Have every other Phyrexian be defeated, have they found ways around how to defeat them again if they ever come up again, but leave the door open.



Aren't the Phyrexian compleating people in Theros, and the believe of those people influence the gods? I doubt that Yawg would form, the therosian(?) don't really worship Yawg. And Jin Gitaxias is pretty atheistic, had it been Elesh Norn going after Theros then maybe she would become a god, or a god version of her would be created.

I wonder what will happen to Ephara. On one hand she is the goddess of cities, and that's where a lot of people are going to rail to, on the other her general portfolio is the most aligned with what Jin Gitaxias (and thus the progress engine) care about.

I'd have linked the art but I was tired after my stream. And yeah that could be possible- Sheoldred very clearly wants to gut Norn, and the Phyrexian front is united along thin lines as it is. I could see infighting causing a sway in the march.

Yeah that's how they're getting Heliod. I'm just saying there are ways a Yawg like entity could form on Theros, if the new oil was less loose with allowing personality through.

It is fascinating to speculate what will happen to each of the planes threatened by New Phyrexia, and I'm excited as hell to see it.

This is the most unrealistic part for me.

Mostly because I have no idea how the Gitrog monster could have been communicated with. Like. How? How does it comprehend the scale of the threat, and who reached out to it?

That said, I love the idea that Zendikar gives Phyrexia the most trouble due to its highly advanced immune system (the Roil).

"My immune system is so advanced that an entire civilization of D&D adventurers spawned for the sole purpose of surviving it. The adventurers are now also part of my immune system. Phyrexia, do you really think an endless series of quantifiable-CR encounters can take me down when the ELDRAZI failed?"

The Gitrog has cultists who worship it, and (allegedly) gave a baby to one branch cult. It's a beast, but it's like a dog- you can speak to it on some level. It understands reality enough to know the big metal bugs are bad because they're sharp and pointy and it saw another frog eat one and die, and Thalia (who has bonded with Saint Traft, fought alongside vampires and werewolves and witches, and everything inbetween) wouldn't think twice about recruiting the Gitrog as her new mount. Everything on Innistrad is a horror, this much is true, but horrors can be tamed. In all honesty, some witch hexes probably helped as well.

So far, it seems like Amonkhet, Zendikar, and Alara are giving them the hardest fights, and that rules.

[Emmerlaus]

- Elspeth is also going to do something turbo cool!

I feel like this will be linked in saving Theros. Or becoming the new untainted Goddess there. If they can't corrupt gods, she can become one. She has helped multiple planes and Im sure that her being a planeswalker god card could help her being untainted in the long run by the Phyrexian or gain powers to fight that corruption.

I would be surprised if WotC decided to make Theros the next realm completely corrupted and become another New Phyrexian land. I wonder if the Underworld of Theros can even get corrupted the same way.

- Combo cards! Legendaries together, united to fight back against the machine! Drana and Linvala, Yargle and Multani, Thali and the Gitrog! No sin, no hate, no rivalry stands in the face of evil this vast.

I really like the idea of unlikely allies, it made some wacky combinaison. I wasn't hyped for any of them though. I'm not even sure how I would build them and the combinaison themselves aren't making me excited. If Fblthp, the Lost had being one of the legendary creatured paired though, it might have being a different story. I would have loved for him to be paired with, I dont know, Cosima, God of the Voyage for a traveler team or... I dont know, Uro, Nature's Wrath?

In fact, I would have loved for Uro to make a return and fight his Black/red counterpart but compleated from Theros. I think it could still happen.

[Eldan]

Entirely besides the point, but I think this is the first time in years I want to play white, just because White Phyrexia's aesthetics rock so hard.

[LaZodiac]

I feel like this will be linked in saving Theros. Or becoming the new untainted Goddess there. If they can't corrupt gods, she can become one. She has helped multiple planes and Im sure that her being a planeswalker god card could help her being untainted in the long run by the Phyrexian or gain powers to fight that corruption.

I would be surprised if WotC decided to make Theros the next realm completely corrupted and become another New Phyrexian land. I wonder if the Underworld of Theros can even get corrupted the same way.

I really like the idea of unlikely allies, it made some wacky combinaison. I wasn't hyped for any of them though. I'm not even sure how I would build them and the combinaison themselves aren't making me excited. If Fblthp, the Lost had being one of the legendary creatured paired though, it might have being a different story. I would have loved for him to be paired with, I dont know, Cosima, God of the Voyage for a traveler team or... I dont know, Uro, Nature's Wrath?

In fact, I would have loved for Uro to make a return and fight his Black/red counterpart but compleated from Theros. I think it could still happen.

That's not really how gods on Theros work, and we know from Xenagos that ascending like that strips your spark from you. I'm personally of the opinion that she will, within the weird out-of-time place she appears to be, will briefly ascend to Oldwalker status, and show us what an actual nigh-omnipotent doom-slayer of Phyrexia can do. Urza was full of rage and his mech suit was very good and cool, but a lot of his anger was aimed at himself as well, and it stayed his hand, slowed his swing. He also could not help but appreciate some of what Phyrexia did, as much as it disgusted him.

Elspeth is capable of none of that. She has no more self hatred, no more loathing, and wishes nothing but relentless bloody vengeance upon the demon-machine. She'll use the sylux and take in everything and leave nothing in her wake.

The underworld might be corruptable, in the same vein, but we'll see. I don't think this is going to end with a plane being New New Phyrexia though. We kinda got that with Emma, and kinda kinda got that with Bolas, but given the sheer breadth of what Phyrexia has done, I don't think we're going to get a "but they might be back one day" like the other two.

So far all the combos have been of people from the same plane, and I want to see otherwise. I want to see like, Aurelia and one of the Dominarian angels who I don't remember, rocking the skies with flames and light.

Entirely besides the point, but I think this is the first time in years I want to play white, just because White Phyrexia's aesthetics rock so hard.

Hey that's pretty cool honestly. And they DO look awesome.

[Shadow of the Sun]

The Gitrog Monster is effectively the Hypnotoad from Futurama. It's sentient and at least somewhat intelligent. It just likes eating people too.

[LaZodiac]

Commander Master news!

Commodore Guff is getting a card.

This is not a drill. I repeat, this is not a drill.

The absurd, 500% nonsense author insert character Commodore Guff, whose purpose was to rewrite the story of the OG Phyrexian invasion so our heroes could win because the writers literally could not conceive of a way to make a convincing ending otherwise under the restraints they had, is getting a card.

Now, to be clear: Guff is dead. This won't affect the modern story at all.

But it is really, REALY funny. The sheer explosion of hype last sunday has now been matched by the abject horror/laughter in the face of Guff.

... and like every other MTG development in the last ten years or so directly benefits me because it aligns perfectly with my needs as a DM for my MTG DND campaign. Beautiful.

[Dienekes]

Commander Master news!

Commodore Guff is getting a card.

This is not a drill. I repeat, this is not a drill.

The absurd, 500% nonsense author insert character Commodore Guff, whose purpose was to rewrite the story of the OG Phyrexian invasion so our heroes could win because the writers literally could not conceive of a way to make a convincing ending otherwise under the restraints they had, is getting a card.

Now, to be clear: Guff is dead. This won't affect the modern story at all.

But it is really, REALY funny. The sheer explosion of hype last sunday has now been matched by the abject horror/laughter in the face of Guff.

... and like every other MTG development in the last ten years or so directly benefits me because it aligns perfectly with my needs as a DM for my MTG DND campaign. Beautiful.

Ahaha, first Astor the Upstart now the Guff.

They're bringing back all my old favorites.

I'd say I'd be excited if they finally make a Mileva legendary. Though I'm guessing she'll just remain a background character who will possibly be compleated in some card called 10th District Scourge or something.

[LaZodiac]

Ahaha, first Astor the Upstart now the Guff.

They're bringing back all my old favorites.

I'd say I'd be excited if they finally make a Mileva legendary. Though I'm guessing she'll just remain a background character who will possibly be compleated in some card called 10th District Scourge or something.

Guff is especially unprecedented given the rule against no more vanity cards, and the fact that aside from you and me everyone hates him. Guess before he died to the yawg-cloud he slipped in an editor's note about how in a couple decades it'll be cool actually if he got a card. Which he's right about, mind!

Honestly, given she's a normal person who survived even the Returned, I imagine she'll be fine against the machine-demon. Just another day in the 10th.

[Lord Raziere]

Ah yes, Commodore Guff, the schmuck who tried to erase the goblin. but could not. Oddly, my mind never connected that he did anything when he erased phyrexian victory stuff. I thought he was just a joke character and a weird aside and commentary on the story without actually effecting anything, and the legacy weapon was the deus ex machina that defeated Yawgmoth. like the fact he couldn't erase the goblin just made me think he couldn't actually affect anything. otherwise, he'd just erase Yawgmoth himself from a book.

[LaZodiac]

Ah yes, Commodore Guff, the schmuck who tried to erase the goblin. but could not. Oddly, my mind never connected that he did anything when he erased phyrexian victory stuff. I thought he was just a joke character and a weird aside and commentary on the story without actually effecting anything, and the legacy weapon was the deus ex machina that defeated Yawgmoth. like the fact he couldn't erase the goblin just made me think he couldn't actually affect anything. otherwise, he'd just erase Yawgmoth himself from a book.

Guff cannot erase Squee because Squee Cannot Die, both from an in universe perspective and an out of universe perspective (it was executive decision that Squee Is Mascot and Cannot Die). He's beholden to his bosses, is all.

Anyway yeah Guff is clearly just a deranged gag character who shouldn't exist, but he DOES and now we have to live with him being a thing in the plot. There's a reason the new invasion hasn't tried to make any callbacks to the original, and Guff is one of them.

[Dienekes]

Ah yes, Commodore Guff, the schmuck who tried to erase the goblin. but could not. Oddly, my mind never connected that he did anything when he erased phyrexian victory stuff. I thought he was just a joke character and a weird aside and commentary on the story without actually effecting anything, and the legacy weapon was the deus ex machina that defeated Yawgmoth. like the fact he couldn't erase the goblin just made me think he couldn't actually affect anything. otherwise, he'd just erase Yawgmoth himself from a book.

No if the part I'm thinking of is the part you are talking about. He was erasing the predetermined future ending where Yawgmoth wins. He wasn't in the process of rewriting anything. I'm not certain if he has that authority. He was an editor you see, not the author. There's a section where he contemplates keeping some of the deaths, you know, so the story will still be dramatic. One of the ones he mentions keeping is the death of Squee. But in the end he erases Squee's death just the same.

Mind you, he definitely is a joke character and a commentary on the restrictions the writers have for these stories by committee and someone else's continuity.

Now, I don't think we can explicitly credit the legacy weapons as being from him, specifically. Just that he erased the ending, so other characters could do their thing.

Apocalypse was a weird book. I love the Invasion Block Trilogy, had some great moments. Urza's turn. Squee's immortality. Szat's betrayal. The Keldon Twilight. And reading in Yawgmoth's insane perspective where everything he desired and everything he hated was Rebbec was fun.

But man is it weird. I have very fond memories of it. But, I kinda maintain that there really have only been 2 objectively good MTG books/stories and the Invasion Block is not one of them.

Guff is especially unprecedented given the rule against no more vanity cards, and the fact that aside from you and me everyone hates him. Guess before he died to the yawg-cloud he slipped in an editor's note about how in a couple decades it'll be cool actually if he got a card. Which he's right about, mind!

Honestly, given she's a normal person who survived even the Returned, I imagine she'll be fine against the machine-demon. Just another day in the 10th.

I wonder if the "no vanity cards" means just no new additions. After all they're still using "Maro" as a creature name.

Commodore Guff might have gotten grandfathered in because he was already a character.

Guff cannot erase Squee because Squee Cannot Die, both from an in universe perspective and an out of universe perspective (it was executive decision that Squee Is Mascot and Cannot Die). He's beholden to his bosses, is all.

Anyway yeah Guff is clearly just a deranged gag character who shouldn't exist, but he DOES and now we have to live with him being a thing in the plot. There's a reason the new invasion hasn't tried to make any callbacks to the original, and Guff is one of them.

I honestly thought the idea of a strike team of planeswalkers all coming together in order to invade Phyrexia and plant a bomb to destroy it and its means of invasion, only to descend into infighting and betrayals was a callback to the originals.

[LaZodiac]

I honestly thought the idea of a strike team of planeswalkers all coming together in order to invade Phyrexia and plant a bomb to destroy it and its means of invasion, only to descend into infighting and betrayals was a callback to the originals.

You know in retrospect, that could be the case. The problem is that it was actually pretty well executed, so I completely missed this being a potential reference to "Urza hires a bunch of people he doesn't care about and one insane murderer so he can justify using them as nukes when the inevitable happens".

[Dienekes]

You know in retrospect, that could be the case. The problem is that it was actually pretty well executed, so I completely missed this being a potential reference to "Urza hires a bunch of people he doesn't care about and one insane murderer so he can justify using them as nukes when the inevitable happens".

I mean, Urza doesn’t care about anyone. He was a sociopath.

I also don’t really see how either was more or less well executed. They both failed. Only Urza’s plan failed because Urza realizing he loves and has more in common with the Phyrexians. It had one point of failure: Urza. The new team fails because of lack of protection, some really dumb decisions, and the exact opposite of Urza, the people cares about each other and let their emotions lead them to do blatantly stupid things. Looking at you Jayce.

Also as an aside. I don’t think I’ve given props to Tyvar, as a character yet. From someone that I nearly forgot about and left no real impression on me to the one character in the group I felt carried his own weight and didn’t do anything too dumb. Props to the elf boy. I’m starting to like him.

[Lord Raziere]

Urza screwed up a lot of things. Heck, technically even to this day most of MtG's story can be summed up as "The fallout of Urza making a decision. Again."

The events of Otaria, the Mirari and the appearance of Karona? all because he made Karn and a weapon to make him ascend to Planeswalker status

Events of Time Spiral? most of the rifts started because of the Golgothian Sylex blast and the fight against Phyrexia

the whole thing with Nicol Bolas trying to get back his power? was because Time Spiral happened, because of Urza's machinations.

first Mirrodin trilogy? All because of the way he made Karn. New Phyrexia? also because of the way he made Karn.

like even this latest arc is still dealing with Urza's mistakes in an indirect manner.

its ridiculous. so much so that so, that memetic Urza would live though his weapon firing only to be sent back in time to create all the planes and the Eldrazi so that he can responsible for everything else to, just to make everything Urza's fault- including the creation of Phyrexia so that Yawgmoth can find it in the first place, and it wouldn't even be surprising.

[Eldan]

There's still the mysterious first creator of Phyrexia, who must have been an Oldwalker.

[Techwarrior]

Spore, Techwarrior, and Personification, what do you three think of my most-specific gameplay story yet? Others can answer too, I just know that most of those answers will be "you were both playing control so I don't care"

Totally missed this, sorry. My take from the info given is that the oppo either has a limited cardpool or has just whiffed their deck-building. I don't know the Historic metagame well enough to have much of an opinion as the closest format to that I've played with any regularity is Pioneer and it's been a couple of months since I've had the time. I almost refuse to believe that zero copies of Veto can possibly be correct.

I can only presume one of two reasonable situations if it's not the above:

1) this was game 2 and they had sided out Veto do to the cards played (unlikely in a wishclaw + Lich's Mastery + Approach list)
2) this was game 1 and they have knowingly gone all-in beating aggro hoping that something like 10 counters in the board saves them versus control and/or combo.

Also... I don't know what I may have done to suggest I don't like control mirrors. My personal gripe is always against the decks that are effectively choosing to concede the match versus anything that plays a Goblin Piker before turn 4.

Yes, please sign me up for playing a full swiss with control when every single opponent I'm going to have today has decided that the only reasonable solution is to play twenty plus 4-9 drops.

[enderlord99]

Also... I don't know what I may have done to suggest I don't like control mirrors.

You're one of the three people I listed as being fine with control. I assumed that everyone in the thread other than us four either hates it or (as is the case with Zodi) doesn't play enough to have a strong opinion about any particular playstyle in the first place.

[LaZodiac]

I mean, Urza doesn’t care about anyone. He was a sociopath.

I also don’t really see how either was more or less well executed. They both failed. Only Urza’s plan failed because Urza realizing he loves and has more in common with the Phyrexians. It had one point of failure: Urza. The new team fails because of lack of protection, some really dumb decisions, and the exact opposite of Urza, the people cares about each other and let their emotions lead them to do blatantly stupid things. Looking at you Jayce.

Also as an aside. I don’t think I’ve given props to Tyvar, as a character yet. From someone that I nearly forgot about and left no real impression on me to the one character in the group I felt carried his own weight and didn’t do anything too dumb. Props to the elf boy. I’m starting to like him.

I meant better executed in that it is written better, not that in universe it was more or less effective.

Ironically Jace is the one person who WASN'T swayed by his emotion and care for others. He got ****ed by his love for Vraska, but when push came to shove he was fully dedicated to detonating that Sylex no matter the cost... which I still think is a good thing he didn't do it, because he was corrupted enough that I bet it would have backfired. And I mean, the new team had as much protection as they could have in the time allotted.

Tyvar does kick ass, yeah. The guy's ability is to take materials and combine with them ala The Absorbing Man, and he managed to get through all of New Phyrexia without consuming any tainted metal because he's a smarter cookie than I thought. Props to the elf hunk.

Urza screwed up a lot of things. Heck, technically even to this day most of MtG's story can be summed up as "The fallout of Urza making a decision. Again."

The events of Otaria, the Mirari and the appearance of Karona? all because he made Karn and a weapon to make him ascend to Planeswalker status

Events of Time Spiral? most of the rifts started because of the Golgothian Sylex blast and the fight against Phyrexia

the whole thing with Nicol Bolas trying to get back his power? was because Time Spiral happened, because of Urza's machinations.

first Mirrodin trilogy? All because of the way he made Karn. New Phyrexia? also because of the way he made Karn.

like even this latest arc is still dealing with Urza's mistakes in an indirect manner.

its ridiculous. so much so that so, that memetic Urza would live though his weapon firing only to be sent back in time to create all the planes and the Eldrazi so that he can responsible for everything else to, just to make everything Urza's fault- including the creation of Phyrexia so that Yawgmoth can find it in the first place, and it wouldn't even be surprising.

Yeah Urza's caused a lot of problems. Thankfully they're not going to go and do something as silly as that.

There's still the mysterious first creator of Phyrexia, who must have been an Oldwalker.

The mysterious first creator of the original, non corrupted Phyrexia is known- he's some dude who looks like a fleshy dragon engine at the core of the artificial plane that would become Old Phyrexia, dead but sustaining the plane. While we do not know who he is or why he did this, we know his general vibe: he's a dude who liked dragons and artifice and wanted to make mechanical organic life, so he did. Then he died.

I do think it'd be fun to get a card of The Dragon Planeswalker, mind you, but I don't think there's anything interesting in revealing who this original guy was.

[Dienekes]

I meant better executed in that it is written better, not that in universe it was more or less effective.

Ironically Jace is the one person who WASN'T swayed by his emotion and care for others. He got ****ed by his love for Vraska, but when push came to shove he was fully dedicated to detonating that Sylex no matter the cost... which I still think is a good thing he didn't do it, because he was corrupted enough that I bet it would have backfired. And I mean, the new team had as much protection as they could have in the time allotted.

Tyvar does kick ass, yeah. The guy's ability is to take materials and combine with them ala The Absorbing Man, and he managed to get through all of New Phyrexia without consuming any tainted metal because he's a smarter cookie than I thought. Props to the elf hunk.

Ahh, totally fair. I’m not 100% sure I agree. I haven’t exactly analyzed either’s prose, and I’ll admit I have Urza’s turn etched into my head as a great moment that has stuck with me. Right up there with Chainer’s final moments.

Nothing in the current run I can say really made my jaw drop.

But of course, it’s also fighting against nostalgia there.

[LaZodiac]

Ahh, totally fair. I’m not 100% sure I agree. I haven’t exactly analyzed either’s prose, and I’ll admit I have Urza’s turn etched into my head as a great moment that has stuck with me. Right up there with Chainer’s final moments.

Nothing in the current run I can say really made my jaw drop.

But of course, it’s also fighting against nostalgia there.

While I'll admit Urza slowly sucombing to his own desires and kneeling to Yawgmoth has a lot of bite to it, the stuff with Jace and Vraska, with Nahiri, and god poor Nissa, probably hits me harder. But like you said yourself, nostalgia is part of the equation; Jace and Vraska are the characters I grew up with, I have less attachment to Urza and the old story. I certainly like it, it's just not My Era, you know?

[Eldan]

The mysterious first creator of the original, non corrupted Phyrexia is known- he's some dude who looks like a fleshy dragon engine at the core of the artificial plane that would become Old Phyrexia, dead but sustaining the plane. While we do not know who he is or why he did this, we know his general vibe: he's a dude who liked dragons and artifice and wanted to make mechanical organic life, so he did. Then he died.

I do think it'd be fun to get a card of The Dragon Planeswalker, mind you, but I don't think there's anything interesting in revealing who this original guy was.

Oh. Must have forgotten that part, it's been a while. Nevermind, then.

Unless... URZA TURNS INTO A FLESH DRAGON!

[LaZodiac]

Oh. Must have forgotten that part, it's been a while. Nevermind, then.

Unless... URZA TURNS INTO A FLESH DRAGON!

Not entirely impossible, The Doom of Fools enjoyed being a black dragon when he wasn't being a weirdo squid-snake man made of obsidian and darkness. But naw, the sheer lengths the series has gone to showing that Time Travel is fundementally impossible, where even the successful attempts are barely hanging in there and only like, half-work at best... Urza did not go back in time to create Phyrexia, hahaha.

On that note, something I do hope we get one day: it's stated that the power armour Urza made for the Nine Titans all look like their preferred form of being, to better match the walker. I want to see art of the power armour looking like everyone else's (except Urza's, which is the current card art for the card in question).

[Androgeus]

That's not really how gods on Theros work, and we know from Xenagos that ascending like that strips your spark from you.

Xenagos was still a planeswalker

[LaZodiac]

Xenagos was still a planeswalker

Other instances of Word of God disagree. Ultimately we Don't Know since he never left Theros after apotheosis, and within the set they wanted him to be a god card to match the cycle so there you have it. In my opinion I think he could have his spark, but only if he like, stepped down from his throne- if he's a God he's a God, if he's a Walker he's a Walker, and never the twain shall meet. He just has to remove his God hat to leave.

[Dante & Vergil]

Other instances of Word of God disagree. Ultimately we Don't Know since he never left Theros after apotheosis, and within the set they wanted him to be a god card to match the cycle so there you have it. In my opinion I think he could have his spark, but only if he like, stepped down from his throne- if he's a God he's a God, if he's a Walker he's a Walker, and never the twain shall meet. He just has to remove his God hat to leave.

Do you think that they'll change the way gods work with how the connectivity of planes is being messed with by The Realmbreaker?

[LaZodiac]

Do you think that they'll change the way gods work with how the connectivity of planes is being messed with by The Realmbreaker?

Genuinely Theros might be getting turbo killed for this exact reason... but also given how the other Realms in Kaldheim work, the theogenesis of Theros won't bleed over to other places except where omenpaths form. It'll be fine.

[Dante & Vergil]

Genuinely Theros might be getting turbo killed for this exact reason... but also given how the other Realms in Kaldheim work, the theogenesis of Theros won't bleed over to other places except where omenpaths form. It'll be fine.

That makes sense. Thanks!

[enderlord99]

Spoiler: Advice for Johnnies like myself, especially of the "uber" variety

Show

No, you do not have a good enough setup going to deliberately let your opponent ult Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and then "win anyway." Whywould you even think that, you idiot‽ Unless you have multiple Kaya, the Inexorable emblems already active (alongside a Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider in a relevant zone) your only options are to win extremely fast, get rid of Teferi before it ults, stifle the ult, or lose. Even if you do have the full setup, attempting to go for the "secret option five" will almost certainly just result in achieving option four.

Yes, I am speaking from experience here! How could you tell{?} I tried it with one Kaya emblem, expecting to get another quickly. I think it's obvious from the above how that went.

[HolyDraconus]

I been thinking about this for a while, and I’m surprised it’s not being talked about much….. is no one going to acknowledge the fact that you can literally see Elspeth’s spark in vanish into eternity?