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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Spoiler: Impractical Breya (or, more likely, 5C) combo for EDH
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    You need to own well over a hundred different Eldrazi cards including: a Spawnsire of Ulamog which will be the only one actually included in the deck, a Pathrazer of Ulamog, and It that Betrays.

    In the unlikely event you manage to get things set up properly, you should bring everything in with the Spawnsire's ability then cast Mythos of Snapdax keeping a Midnight Clock, the Pathrazer, a Battle of Wits, and Gideon of the Trials.

    Technically, It and Pathrazer are optional to this combo, as is Gideon. The former two are included as backup wincons and the latter as defensive insurance.


    EDIT: Apparently it's illegal. Maybe it'd work in regular Highlander?
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2021-06-19 at 11:17 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Wouldn't work in EDH.

    Rules link
    11. Parts of abilities which bring other card(s) you own from outside the game into the game (such as Living Wish; Spawnsire of Ulamog; Karn, the Great Creator) do not function in Commander.
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2021-06-19 at 09:30 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    Wouldn't work in EDH.

    Rules link
    Huh. I always thought you had a standard Wishboard.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Post Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Huh. I always thought you had a standard Wishboard.
    Unfortunately not. Hereís the FAQ about why they donít allow a wish board. Obviously rule 0 applies and if your playgroup agrees, you can play with wish board.
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2021-06-20 at 01:08 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Spoiler: Impractical Breya (or, more likely, 5C) combo for EDH
    Show
    You need to own well over a hundred different Eldrazi cards including: a Spawnsire of Ulamog which will be the only one actually included in the deck, a Pathrazer of Ulamog, and It that Betrays.

    In the unlikely event you manage to get things set up properly, you should bring everything in with the Spawnsire's ability then cast Mythos of Snapdax keeping a Midnight Clock, the Pathrazer, a Battle of Wits, and Gideon of the Trials.

    Technically, It and Pathrazer are optional to this combo, as is Gideon. The former two are included as backup wincons and the latter as defensive insurance.


    EDIT: Apparently it's illegal. Maybe it'd work in regular Highlander?
    While I don't know if there is any specific format that is considered "regular" highlander, I do know that Canadian Highlander also has no wishboards, though Battle of Wits is a deck that exists in the format, if only as a bit of meme. You could theoretically build this in Vintage, though it probably wouldn't ever win games, then again, the odds of it doing that in any Highlander variant were probably low as well.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Personification View Post
    While I don't know if there is any specific format that is considered "regular" highlander, I do know that Canadian Highlander also has no wishboards, though Battle of Wits is a deck that exists in the format, if only as a bit of meme. You could theoretically build this in Vintage, though it probably wouldn't ever win games, then again, the odds of it doing that in any Highlander variant were probably low as well.
    There's 7 point highlander which is 60 card format with 15 card sideboards.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Does Chatterfang work with Helm of the Host?

    Could someone walk me through it?
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2021-06-22 at 02:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Does Chatterfang work with Helm of the Host?

    Could someone walk me through it?
    What part do you need help with?

    Basically it would work like:

    1 chatterfang with helm at beginning of combat: Creates 1 new chatterfang and 1 squirrel token.

    Next combat: 2 chatterfangs create 1 new chatterfang with Helm of the Host and then each chatterfang would add a squirrel token (when one or more tokens is created, not when a token is created.) So basically you get one more token per chatterfang.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    So basically you get one more token per chatterfang.
    I believe it's a bit more than that. First combat is correct, 1 chatterfang and 1 squirrel. But, assuming neither dies, the next beginning of combat looks like:

    - Helm of the Host attempts to create 1 token chatterfang
    - Existing Chatterfang #1 says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 1"
    - Existing Chatterfang #2 then says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 2" (a chatterfang and a 1/1 squirrel). Replacement effects apply to what they see and go in order, they don't apply to the original effect (Comp 616.1).

    It's the same rule that makes 2 Academy Manufacturers create 3 of each token. Each chatterfang looks at the number of tokens that are about to enter the battlefield and adds that many squirrels to the list.

    Third combat, assuming none die, would make 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels. Fourth combat 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels, +8 squirrels. etc

    Of course, I am not a judge, so if we have one here would appreciate confirmation. Thanks.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Binks View Post
    I believe it's a bit more than that. First combat is correct, 1 chatterfang and 1 squirrel. But, assuming neither dies, the next beginning of combat looks like:

    - Helm of the Host attempts to create 1 token chatterfang
    - Existing Chatterfang #1 says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 1"
    - Existing Chatterfang #2 then says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 2" (a chatterfang and a 1/1 squirrel). Replacement effects apply to what they see and go in order, they don't apply to the original effect (Comp 616.1).

    It's the same rule that makes 2 Academy Manufacturers create 3 of each token. Each chatterfang looks at the number of tokens that are about to enter the battlefield and adds that many squirrels to the list.

    Third combat, assuming none die, would make 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels. Fourth combat 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels, +8 squirrels. etc

    Of course, I am not a judge, so if we have one here would appreciate confirmation. Thanks.
    I see your point, and I could be incorrect. I don't think they are triggers though, they happen simultaneously with the tokens being made?
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I see your point, and I could be incorrect. I don't think they are triggers though, they happen simultaneously with the tokens being made?
    They're replacement effects, so you're correct, they're not triggers. But multiple replacement effects can apply sequentially, as long as none of them makes the others irrelevant. They don't use the stack, but they still apply sequentially. It's the same as having two Doubling Seasons out, which is explicitly covered in the oracle rulings if you want to check here.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    They're replacement effects, so you're correct, they're not triggers. But multiple replacement effects can apply sequentially, as long as none of them makes the others irrelevant. They don't use the stack, but they still apply sequentially. It's the same as having two Doubling Seasons out, which is explicitly covered in the oracle rulings if you want to check here.
    Which also means the Chatterfangs will not interact with Panharmonicon, correct?

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Which also means the Chatterfangs will not interact with Panharmonicon, correct?
    Correct, except in the sense that if Panharmonicon doubles a token-making triggered ability, you get extra squirrels both times the ability resolves.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Spoiler: I have somehow been getting an over 50% winrate with this deck in the "No Limits" FNM event.
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    1 Chromatic Orrery
    4 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
    5 Kaya the Inexorable
    1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    1 Roalesk, Apex Hybrid
    4 Dismal Backwater
    1 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
    8 Spark Double
    1 Oath of Teferi
    1 Lithoform Engine
    4 Tranquil Cove
    4 Scoured Barrens
    1 God-Eternal Bontu
    1 Rakdos, the Showstopper
    1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
    1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
    6 Radiant Fountain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Spoiler: I have somehow been getting an over 50% winrate with this deck in the "No Limits" FNM event.
    Show

    1 Chromatic Orrery
    4 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
    5 Kaya the Inexorable
    1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
    1 Roalesk, Apex Hybrid
    4 Dismal Backwater
    1 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
    8 Spark Double
    1 Oath of Teferi
    1 Lithoform Engine
    4 Tranquil Cove
    4 Scoured Barrens
    1 God-Eternal Bontu
    1 Rakdos, the Showstopper
    1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
    1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
    6 Radiant Fountain
    Many of these cards are good (read ridiculously powerful but counterbalanced by mana cost) but less often played in more normal formats because in normal formats you have to kill very fast.
    You do not have many cards with more normal mana costs but all your lands are hp gain lands which allows to survive to the early damage of a burn deck (such as a lightning and more lightning deck which forgot to get the cards to prevent healing).
    I do not see how it fares against an aggro deck before it gets some significant non land permanents but if you can bring those before dying it works.
    Last edited by noob; 2021-06-25 at 03:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Many of these cards are generically good (read ridiculously powerful but counterbalanced by mana cost) but less often played in more normal formats because in normal formats you have to kill very fast.
    You do not have many cards with more normal mana costs but all your lands are hp gain lands which allows to survive to the early damage of a burn deck (such as a lightning and more lightning deck which forgot to get the cards to prevent healing).
    I do not see how it fares against an aggro deck before it gets some significant non land permanents but if you can bring those before dying it works.
    Believe it or not, it's actually meant as a (semi-)janky combo deck. Generally speaking, the only cards I plan to pay any mana for whatsoever are... one copy of Kaya; one copy of Tezzeret; and an arbitrary number of Spark Doubles, all copying Kaya. The plan is to ult Kaya several times so that I can cast-for-free Kroxa several times per turn from my graveyard (all during my upkeep) and thus pinging my opponent for 3*(emblem_count-[0|1]) damage each turn.

    Basically, I have a solid plan for how to win with the deck... I'm just surprised how often I manage to pull it off.

    Normally a 40% winrate is "really good" with me.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2021-06-25 at 03:59 PM.
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    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Believe it or not, it's actually meant as a (semi-)janky combo deck. Generally speaking, the only cards I plan to pay any mana for whatsoever are... one copy of Kaya; one copy of Tezzeret; and an arbitrary number of Spark Doubles, all copying Kaya. The plan is to ult Kaya several times so that I can cast-for-free Kroxa several times per turn from my graveyard (all during my upkeep) and thus pinging my opponent for 3*(emblem_count-[0|1]) damage each turn.
    And a reason why it works so well is in part because an army of kayas is absolutely glorious even if you do not have the combo because it get rids of permanents super efficiently.
    Tezzeret not only does have a ridiculous emblem but before that it makes tokens to tank and also can if needed draw cards.
    Many of the individual cards are actually good and/or polyvalent prior to the combo being made.
    Last edited by noob; 2021-06-25 at 04:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    And a reason why it works so well is in part because an army of kayas is absolutely glorious even if you do not have the combo because it get rids of permanents super efficiently.
    Preaching to the choir on that one. Remember our previous conversation on page 3 where you said "that opponent was very persistent."?
    Many of the individual cards are actually good prior to the combo being made.
    Also true.
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    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Believe it or not, it's actually meant as a (semi-)janky combo deck. Generally speaking, the only cards I plan to pay any mana for whatsoever are... one copy of Kaya; one copy of Tezzeret; and an arbitrary number of Spark Doubles, all copying Kaya. The plan is to ult Kaya several times so that I can cast-for-free Kroxa several times per turn from my graveyard (all during my upkeep) and thus pinging my opponent for 3*(emblem_count-[0|1]) damage each turn.

    Basically, I have a solid plan for how to win with the deck... I'm just surprised how often I manage to pull it off.

    Normally a 40% winrate is "really good" with me.
    If there were room, we would need to amend the thread title to also include "and perhaps the J(oh/e)nny-est J(oh/e)nny to ever J(oh/e)nny."
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Personification View Post
    If there were room, we would need to amend the thread title to also include "and perhaps the J(oh/e)nny-est J(oh/e)nny to ever J(oh/e)nny."
    That is almost exactly what I am, thank you for noticing.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2021-06-25 at 05:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    I'm actually happy to see the No Limits event again. (Last time was the April Fools!)
    It is one of the few times I can play my Happily Ever After deck anymore. (Teferi got banned, and I can't find a good replacement. Is it too much to ask for a planeswalker that can give your spells flash?)


    I have also been trolling my opponents in the No Limits event with a deck composed of 17 of the Blue/White Pathways, 12 Deputy of Detentions and 11 Ixalan's Bindings. Doesn't win that often against actually functional decks (since those usually have answers), but it has caused a few rage quits.
    Last edited by Laughing Dog; 2021-06-25 at 09:39 PM. Reason: typo
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Laughing Dog View Post
    It is one of the few times I can play my Happily Ever After deck anymore. (Teferi got banned, and I can't find a good replacement. Is it too much to ask for a planeswalker that can give your spells flash?)
    Yes, given that there's only seven permanents that let you cast sorceries as instants in the first place. (Vedalken Orrey, Leyline of Anticipation, Alchemist's Refuge, Emergence Zone, Tidal Barricuda, Teferi, and Hypersonic Dragon.)
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Laughing Dog View Post
    (Teferi got banned, and I can't find a good replacement. Is it too much to ask for a planeswalker that can give your spells flash?)
    Have you considered using a Tribal that gives things Flash instead? There is no such thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Did you guys ever tried pauper EDH? Was it fun? Fast?

    Im looking for feedback before making a deck. Very cheap format but Im afraid for it to die like Oathbreaker did

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Laughing Dog View Post
    I have also been trolling my opponents in the No Limits event with a deck composed of 17 of the Blue/White Pathways, 12 Deputy of Detentions and 11 Ixalan's Bindings. Doesn't win that often against actually functional decks (since those usually have answers), but it has caused a few rage quits.
    You could make a much trollier version of this by going G/W and playing enchantress effects, mana ramp, and prison cards that prevent the mass removal of all your stuff keeping their things locked away. Nevermore comes to mind. I'd look into enchantress commander lists that run stax cards for ideas of you're interested. I could probably also be talked into helping out with a decklist.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmerlaus View Post
    Did you guys ever tried pauper EDH? Was it fun? Fast?

    Im looking for feedback before making a deck. Very cheap format but Im afraid for it to die like Oathbreaker did
    Ask whoever you intend to play it with, not the internet.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Ask whoever you intend to play it with, not the internet.
    Iím asking if anyone else played here and what were their impression of it. Why would I not ask on the internet? None that my friends knew of the format, their is nothing wrong in asking around what is attractive toward a new format.

    TL-DR: donít be rude to someone who ask questions to learn about something.

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmerlaus View Post
    Iím asking if anyone else played here and what were their impression of it. Why would I not ask on the internet? None that my friends knew of the format, their is nothing wrong in asking around what is attractive toward a new format.

    TL-DR: donít be rude to someone who ask questions to learn about something.
    It might be the most fun format ever, if the subset of people you can actually meet and play with dont think so, then it wont get played. Unless you wanna play it on something like cockatrice with the people of a given community, your best bet will always be surveying the taste of those local to you since otherwise you'll build decks and get hyped and then never get someone to play it.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    There's a song about my playstyle.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2021-06-27 at 06:07 PM.
    Spoiler: Vanity quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spi

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    There's a song about my playstyle.
    I don't like hitting lightly described YouTube links, what's the song?
    Stop using good evidence and logic that makes sense to refute points, that's my job
    Lots of people seem to use blue for sarcasm, I decided I should too
    Quote Originally Posted by nabcif View Post
    Nitpick: I believe you'll find that only our heads explode. Page 43 of Book of Pedantic Forumites, if memory serves.
    I have joined the ranks of the FFRPeople Here is my character.

    Thank you to Linkele for creating my avatar!

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