Magic: The Gathering Thread XXV: 3 Vorthoses barely clinging to sanity and 45 Spikes

[enderlord99]

Spoiler: Impractical Breya (or, more likely, 5C) combo for EDH

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You need to own well over a hundred different Eldrazi cards including: a Spawnsire of Ulamog which will be the only one actually included in the deck, a Pathrazer of Ulamog, and It that Betrays.

In the unlikely event you manage to get things set up properly, you should bring everything in with the Spawnsire's ability then cast Mythos of Snapdax keeping a Midnight Clock, the Pathrazer, a Battle of Wits, and Gideon of the Trials.

Technically, It and Pathrazer are optional to this combo, as is Gideon. The former two are included as backup wincons and the latter as defensive insurance.

EDIT: Apparently it's illegal. Maybe it'd work in regular Highlander?

[Androgeus]

Wouldn't work in EDH.

Rules link

11. Parts of abilities which bring other card(s) you own from outside the game into the game (such as Living Wish; Spawnsire of Ulamog; Karn, the Great Creator) do not function in Commander.

[Fable Wright]

Wouldn't work in EDH.

Rules link

Huh. I always thought you had a standard Wishboard.

[Androgeus]

Huh. I always thought you had a standard Wishboard.

Unfortunately not. Here’s the FAQ about why they don’t allow a wish board. Obviously rule 0 applies and if your playgroup agrees, you can play with wish board.

[Personification]

Spoiler: Impractical Breya (or, more likely, 5C) combo for EDH

Show

You need to own well over a hundred different Eldrazi cards including: a Spawnsire of Ulamog which will be the only one actually included in the deck, a Pathrazer of Ulamog, and It that Betrays.

In the unlikely event you manage to get things set up properly, you should bring everything in with the Spawnsire's ability then cast Mythos of Snapdax keeping a Midnight Clock, the Pathrazer, a Battle of Wits, and Gideon of the Trials.

Technically, It and Pathrazer are optional to this combo, as is Gideon. The former two are included as backup wincons and the latter as defensive insurance.

EDIT: Apparently it's illegal. Maybe it'd work in regular Highlander?

While I don't know if there is any specific format that is considered "regular" highlander, I do know that Canadian Highlander also has no wishboards, though Battle of Wits is a deck that exists in the format, if only as a bit of meme. You could theoretically build this in Vintage, though it probably wouldn't ever win games, then again, the odds of it doing that in any Highlander variant were probably low as well.

[Shadow of the Sun]

While I don't know if there is any specific format that is considered "regular" highlander, I do know that Canadian Highlander also has no wishboards, though Battle of Wits is a deck that exists in the format, if only as a bit of meme. You could theoretically build this in Vintage, though it probably wouldn't ever win games, then again, the odds of it doing that in any Highlander variant were probably low as well.

There's 7 point highlander which is 60 card format with 15 card sideboards.

[unseenmage]

Does Chatterfang work with Helm of the Host?

Could someone walk me through it?

[Tvtyrant]

Does Chatterfang work with Helm of the Host?

Could someone walk me through it?

What part do you need help with?

Basically it would work like:

1 chatterfang with helm at beginning of combat: Creates 1 new chatterfang and 1 squirrel token.

Next combat: 2 chatterfangs create 1 new chatterfang with Helm of the Host and then each chatterfang would add a squirrel token (when one or more tokens is created, not when a token is created.) So basically you get one more token per chatterfang.

[Binks]

So basically you get one more token per chatterfang.

I believe it's a bit more than that. First combat is correct, 1 chatterfang and 1 squirrel. But, assuming neither dies, the next beginning of combat looks like:

- Helm of the Host attempts to create 1 token chatterfang
- Existing Chatterfang #1 says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 1"
- Existing Chatterfang #2 then says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 2" (a chatterfang and a 1/1 squirrel). Replacement effects apply to what they see and go in order, they don't apply to the original effect (Comp 616.1).

It's the same rule that makes 2 Academy Manufacturers create 3 of each token. Each chatterfang looks at the number of tokens that are about to enter the battlefield and adds that many squirrels to the list.

Third combat, assuming none die, would make 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels. Fourth combat 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels, +8 squirrels. etc

Of course, I am not a judge, so if we have one here would appreciate confirmation. Thanks.

[Tvtyrant]

I believe it's a bit more than that. First combat is correct, 1 chatterfang and 1 squirrel. But, assuming neither dies, the next beginning of combat looks like:

- Helm of the Host attempts to create 1 token chatterfang
- Existing Chatterfang #1 says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 1"
- Existing Chatterfang #2 then says "hey, do that, and make as many squirrels as there are tokens being created, which is 2" (a chatterfang and a 1/1 squirrel). Replacement effects apply to what they see and go in order, they don't apply to the original effect (Comp 616.1).

It's the same rule that makes 2 Academy Manufacturers create 3 of each token. Each chatterfang looks at the number of tokens that are about to enter the battlefield and adds that many squirrels to the list.

Third combat, assuming none die, would make 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels. Fourth combat 1 chatterfang, +1 squirrel, +2 squirrels, +4 squirrels, +8 squirrels. etc

Of course, I am not a judge, so if we have one here would appreciate confirmation. Thanks.

I see your point, and I could be incorrect. I don't think they are triggers though, they happen simultaneously with the tokens being made?

[Eurus]

I see your point, and I could be incorrect. I don't think they are triggers though, they happen simultaneously with the tokens being made?

They're replacement effects, so you're correct, they're not triggers. But multiple replacement effects can apply sequentially, as long as none of them makes the others irrelevant. They don't use the stack, but they still apply sequentially. It's the same as having two Doubling Seasons out, which is explicitly covered in the oracle rulings if you want to check here.

[unseenmage]

They're replacement effects, so you're correct, they're not triggers. But multiple replacement effects can apply sequentially, as long as none of them makes the others irrelevant. They don't use the stack, but they still apply sequentially. It's the same as having two Doubling Seasons out, which is explicitly covered in the oracle rulings if you want to check here.

Which also means the Chatterfangs will not interact with Panharmonicon, correct?

[Personification]

Which also means the Chatterfangs will not interact with Panharmonicon, correct?

Correct, except in the sense that if Panharmonicon doubles a token-making triggered ability, you get extra squirrels both times the ability resolves.

[enderlord99]

Spoiler: I have somehow been getting an over 50% winrate with this deck in the "No Limits" FNM event.

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1 Chromatic Orrery
4 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
5 Kaya the Inexorable
1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
1 Roalesk, Apex Hybrid
4 Dismal Backwater
1 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
8 Spark Double
1 Oath of Teferi
1 Lithoform Engine
4 Tranquil Cove
4 Scoured Barrens
1 God-Eternal Bontu
1 Rakdos, the Showstopper
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
6 Radiant Fountain

[noob]

Spoiler: I have somehow been getting an over 50% winrate with this deck in the "No Limits" FNM event.

Show

1 Chromatic Orrery
4 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
5 Kaya the Inexorable
1 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
1 Roalesk, Apex Hybrid
4 Dismal Backwater
1 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
8 Spark Double
1 Oath of Teferi
1 Lithoform Engine
4 Tranquil Cove
4 Scoured Barrens
1 God-Eternal Bontu
1 Rakdos, the Showstopper
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
6 Radiant Fountain

Many of these cards are good (read ridiculously powerful but counterbalanced by mana cost) but less often played in more normal formats because in normal formats you have to kill very fast.
You do not have many cards with more normal mana costs but all your lands are hp gain lands which allows to survive to the early damage of a burn deck (such as a lightning and more lightning deck which forgot to get the cards to prevent healing).
I do not see how it fares against an aggro deck before it gets some significant non land permanents but if you can bring those before dying it works.

[enderlord99]

Many of these cards are generically good (read ridiculously powerful but counterbalanced by mana cost) but less often played in more normal formats because in normal formats you have to kill very fast.
You do not have many cards with more normal mana costs but all your lands are hp gain lands which allows to survive to the early damage of a burn deck (such as a lightning and more lightning deck which forgot to get the cards to prevent healing).
I do not see how it fares against an aggro deck before it gets some significant non land permanents but if you can bring those before dying it works.

Believe it or not, it's actually meant as a (semi-)janky combo deck. Generally speaking, the only cards I plan to pay any mana for whatsoever are... one copy of Kaya; one copy of Tezzeret; and an arbitrary number of Spark Doubles, all copying Kaya. The plan is to ult Kaya several times so that I can cast-for-free Kroxa several times per turn from my graveyard (all during my upkeep) and thus pinging my opponent for 3*(emblem_count-[0|1]) damage each turn.

Basically, I have a solid plan for how to win with the deck... I'm just surprised how often I manage to pull it off.

Normally a 40% winrate is "really good" with me.

[noob]

Believe it or not, it's actually meant as a (semi-)janky combo deck. Generally speaking, the only cards I plan to pay any mana for whatsoever are... one copy of Kaya; one copy of Tezzeret; and an arbitrary number of Spark Doubles, all copying Kaya. The plan is to ult Kaya several times so that I can cast-for-free Kroxa several times per turn from my graveyard (all during my upkeep) and thus pinging my opponent for 3*(emblem_count-[0|1]) damage each turn.

And a reason why it works so well is in part because an army of kayas is absolutely glorious even if you do not have the combo because it get rids of permanents super efficiently.
Tezzeret not only does have a ridiculous emblem but before that it makes tokens to tank and also can if needed draw cards.
Many of the individual cards are actually good and/or polyvalent prior to the combo being made.

[enderlord99]

And a reason why it works so well is in part because an army of kayas is absolutely glorious even if you do not have the combo because it get rids of permanents super efficiently.

Preaching to the choir on that one. Remember our previous conversation on page 3 where you said "that opponent was very persistent."?

Many of the individual cards are actually good prior to the combo being made.

Also true.

[Personification]

Believe it or not, it's actually meant as a (semi-)janky combo deck. Generally speaking, the only cards I plan to pay any mana for whatsoever are... one copy of Kaya; one copy of Tezzeret; and an arbitrary number of Spark Doubles, all copying Kaya. The plan is to ult Kaya several times so that I can cast-for-free Kroxa several times per turn from my graveyard (all during my upkeep) and thus pinging my opponent for 3*(emblem_count-[0|1]) damage each turn.

Basically, I have a solid plan for how to win with the deck... I'm just surprised how often I manage to pull it off.

Normally a 40% winrate is "really good" with me.

If there were room, we would need to amend the thread title to also include "and perhaps the J(oh/e)nny-est J(oh/e)nny to ever J(oh/e)nny."

[enderlord99]

If there were room, we would need to amend the thread title to also include "and perhaps the J(oh/e)nny-est J(oh/e)nny to ever J(oh/e)nny."

That is almost exactly what I am, thank you for noticing.

[Laughing Dog]

I'm actually happy to see the No Limits event again. (Last time was the April Fools!)
It is one of the few times I can play my Happily Ever After deck anymore. (Teferi got banned, and I can't find a good replacement. Is it too much to ask for a planeswalker that can give your spells flash?)


I have also been trolling my opponents in the No Limits event with a deck composed of 17 of the Blue/White Pathways, 12 Deputy of Detentions and 11 Ixalan's Bindings. Doesn't win that often against actually functional decks (since those usually have answers), but it has caused a few rage quits.

[Fable Wright]

It is one of the few times I can play my Happily Ever After deck anymore. (Teferi got banned, and I can't find a good replacement. Is it too much to ask for a planeswalker that can give your spells flash?)

Yes, given that there's only seven permanents that let you cast sorceries as instants in the first place. (Vedalken Orrey, Leyline of Anticipation, Alchemist's Refuge, Emergence Zone, Tidal Barricuda, Teferi, and Hypersonic Dragon.)

[enderlord99]

(Teferi got banned, and I can't find a good replacement. Is it too much to ask for a planeswalker that can give your spells flash?)

Have you considered using a Tribal that gives things Flash instead? There is no such thing.

[Emmerlaus]

Did you guys ever tried pauper EDH? Was it fun? Fast?

Im looking for feedback before making a deck. Very cheap format but Im afraid for it to die like Oathbreaker did

[Techwarrior]

I have also been trolling my opponents in the No Limits event with a deck composed of 17 of the Blue/White Pathways, 12 Deputy of Detentions and 11 Ixalan's Bindings. Doesn't win that often against actually functional decks (since those usually have answers), but it has caused a few rage quits.

You could make a much trollier version of this by going G/W and playing enchantress effects, mana ramp, and prison cards that prevent the mass removal of all your stuff keeping their things locked away. Nevermore comes to mind. I'd look into enchantress commander lists that run stax cards for ideas of you're interested. I could probably also be talked into helping out with a decklist.

[LansXero]

Did you guys ever tried pauper EDH? Was it fun? Fast?

Im looking for feedback before making a deck. Very cheap format but Im afraid for it to die like Oathbreaker did

Ask whoever you intend to play it with, not the internet.

[Emmerlaus]

Ask whoever you intend to play it with, not the internet.

I’m asking if anyone else played here and what were their impression of it. Why would I not ask on the internet? None that my friends knew of the format, their is nothing wrong in asking around what is attractive toward a new format.

TL-DR: don’t be rude to someone who ask questions to learn about something.

[LansXero]

I’m asking if anyone else played here and what were their impression of it. Why would I not ask on the internet? None that my friends knew of the format, their is nothing wrong in asking around what is attractive toward a new format.

TL-DR: don’t be rude to someone who ask questions to learn about something.

It might be the most fun format ever, if the subset of people you can actually meet and play with dont think so, then it wont get played. Unless you wanna play it on something like cockatrice with the people of a given community, your best bet will always be surveying the taste of those local to you since otherwise you'll build decks and get hyped and then never get someone to play it.

[enderlord99]

There's a song about my playstyle.

[Personification]

There's a song about my playstyle.

I don't like hitting lightly described YouTube links, what's the song?