#1231 - The Discussion Thread

[Grey Watcher]

That appears to be something that would be true if you were writing the comic

Since you aren't, I think we'll wait and see


R
Nope. "Now they just cause concussions." The "just" means that they caused something else, as well as possibly causing concussions.

"I had a diamond and a ruby, now I just have a ruby"

But you could also say "I used to have a diamond, now I just have a ruby." Which highlights that the ruby is less valuable, not necessarily that you had the ruby before. To use another example, "I used to fly first class, now I just fly coach."

[Finagle]

Kill Xykon and then beat Redcloak to within an inch of his life so he'll change his mind?

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work. Redcloak would proudly go meet the Dark One personally rather than do what some Thor worshipper said.

"You're out of healing spells and potions and down to your last 3HP. Now do as we say and contact your god and tell him to cooperate with Thor!"

That's the plan?

[gatemansgc]

Odin seems to be having a lucid moment.

I like how the deva functions as a ringtone!

the deva part made me giggle, it was cute!

[arimareiji]

I must say I enjoy living in the world where my opinions don’t change when I get punched.

I wonder if this is a send-up of the dramatic trope (painfully common in shounen-jump manga and anime) where they refuse to discuss their differences (except to "talk with their fists"), and the loser realizes the winner was right.

[Shining Wrath]

Kill Xykon and then beat Redcloak to within an inch of his life so he'll change his mind?

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work. Redcloak would proudly go meet the Dark One personally rather than do what some Thor worshipper said.

"You're out of healing spells and potions and down to your last 3HP. Now do as we say and contact your god and tell him to cooperate with Thor!"

That's the plan?

It's Roy's current plan. I think Durkon and Thor are moving toward a different plan in the penultimate panel. "... but you cannae truly change someone's mind by hittin' 'em." "Yeah, that's true." For how long will Redcloak's cooperation be needed? And what assurance would he have that he wouldn't be killed after contacting TDO?

[bguy]

Kill Xykon and then beat Redcloak to within an inch of his life so he'll change his mind?

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work. Redcloak would proudly go meet the Dark One personally rather than do what some Thor worshipper said.

"You're out of healing spells and potions and down to your last 3HP. Now do as we say and contact your god and tell him to cooperate with Thor!"

That's the plan?

On the other hand Redcloak probably would be more open to Durkon's proposals once Xykon is destroyed since not only would Redcloak believe his leverage was greatly reduced in such a scenario, but their being willing to negotiate with him even when the Plan is in ruins would show Redcloak that Durkon (and Thor) are being sincere about wanting peace with the goblins and aren't just negotiating with him out of fear of the Plan succeeding.

[arimareiji]

It's Roy's current plan. I think Durkon and Thor are moving toward a different plan in the penultimate panel. "... but you cannae truly change someone's mind by hittin' 'em." "Yeah, that's true." For how long will Redcloak's cooperation be needed? And what assurance would he have that he wouldn't be killed after contacting TDO?

Good points.

I would think they have to keep Redcloak alive for trips around the world to visit the other rifts and seal them, but 1) that's just my take and 2) Redcloak probably wouldn't believe that until he saw it.

Personal head-canon: This actually goes a long way toward guaranteeing the PC races can't immediately return to treating goblinoids as XP fodder and/or "clear them out" every time they try for something better than a hardscrabble existence in a wasteland. The world is still made of three colors, so rifts will probably keep opening periodically for millennia to come (and need to be "spot-welded" with the help of a sufficiently-high priest of TDO).

[Rinazina]

Not a bad strip, but I feel a bit... "anticlimaxed"

I might share the same feeling, but might also be the perfect setup for a Serini-Order-Xykon-Thor parallel happenings :P

Eventually Thor might stretch commune for a bit more time, for the sake of plot?
Also I would expect he'll ask a confirmative statement 'bout planet in the rift.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Ye cannae truly change someone's mind by hittin' 'em.

Actually there are specific cases where that's not true.

Philosophical ideas that can be refuted by punching:
1. Moral Nihilism
2. Moral Relativism
3. Scepticism about the outside world
4. Scepticism about causation
5. Denial of qualia
6. That violence never accomplishes anything

[Thecommander236]

Yeah... If it was possible to get people to join you if you hit them on the head, a lot of the most violent people would be kings. All the most unreasonable people would turn everyone else unreasonable... unless you could hit them hard enough on the head.

[arimareiji]

Yeah... If it was possible to get people to join you if you hit them on the head, a lot of the most violent people would be kings. All the most unreasonable people would turn everyone else unreasonable... unless you could hit them hard enough on the head.

Which has definitely never happened in the real world. (^_~)

[Deathhappens]

Too bad that Redcloak, even with Warhammer diplomacy, won't change his mind. He has too much invested in his sinking fallacy to invest in other opinions.

Who knows? Maybe they just haven't used enough warhammer diplomacy.

(To clarify, I don't believe that IS the direction the comic is goint to take... but that it COULD have been a direction the comic could take.)

[KorvinStarmast]

So, Thor has a special ring tone for Durkon?

Now that is how you know you're special to your God.

Actually there are specific cases where that's not true.

That made me chuckle.

[Deathhappens]

I like how Thor believes it is possible for Durkon + Minrah to kill Redcloak. He has faith in those that have faith in him, does Thor.

"Warhammer Diplomacy" is best conducted between the Sisters of Battle and the Chaos Knights.

Will Thor be able to tell Durkon about Serani? That really spoils a rogue's fun when their surprise attack is known in advance and planned for.

I mean, purely from a game perspective, it SHOULD be possible, and even advantageous, for those two to fight and kill Redcloak if we assume Xykon and the MitD are out of the picture. He's higher-level that Durkon, but not so much as to completely outclass him, and the action economy heavily favors the 2 versus one. On a completely non-exhaustive, not-particularly optimised list of things they could do, Durkon could counterspell anything Redcloak attempts to cast while Minrah puts her racial bonuses (and previous fighter levels) to work bashing his unbuffed noggin in with her hammer.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Something about "Durkon, my dude!" cracks me up. Gotta love Thor!

[Psychronia]

I wonder if it was an anime-esque world?

Thor understands warhammer diplomacy as expected. Still unfortunate, but Redcloak might face the music better once the biggest undead sunk cost is taken care of.

....I don't suppose Jirix would have the level of power needed to cast that spell, would he?

[understatement]

I wonder if it was an anime-esque world?

Thor understands warhammer diplomacy as expected. Still unfortunate, but Redcloak might face the music better once the biggest undead sunk cost is taken care of.

....I don't suppose Jirix would have the level of power needed to cast that spell, would he?

He decidedly does not, and it would be a pretty large cop-out if he did.

[Shining Wrath]

He decidedly does not, and it would be a pretty large cop-out if he did.

To be fair, he's been off-camera for a while, doing ruler stuff. Might have leveled up.
Also, recall that Crystal, as Haley's nemesis, leveled up whenever she did, for free (back when the comic was more cheap-D&D-joke oriented). Jirix could, arguably, level up whenever the plot requires it just because.

[Riftwolf]

Just a quick note: in the last three comics, the point of views jumped three times (from Serini, to the Order, to Thor).

To be fair, he's been off-camera for a while, doing ruler stuff. Might have leveled up.
Also, recall that Crystal, as Haley's nemesis, leveled up whenever she did, for free (back when the comic was more cheap-D&D-joke oriented). Jirix could, arguably, level up whenever the plot requires it just because.

(sarcasm) that's why Jirix stomped the demon roach: to become the person nemesis of roaches who are currently running through epic dungeons! (/sarcasm)

[gatemansgc]

Kill Xykon and then beat Redcloak to within an inch of his life so he'll change his mind?

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work. Redcloak would proudly go meet the Dark One personally rather than do what some Thor worshipper said.

"You're out of healing spells and potions and down to your last 3HP. Now do as we say and contact your god and tell him to cooperate with Thor!"

That's the plan?

when you phrase it like that it sounds worse D:

[Ruck]

Go Hammer, MC Hammer, Warhammer, Thor's Hammer!

[Shining Wrath]

Go Hammer, MC Hammer, Warhammer, Thor's Hammer!

So ... it's Hammer Time?
I also recall Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em. Maybe foreshadowing?

[CountDVB]

Kill Xykon and then beat Redcloak to within an inch of his life so he'll change his mind?

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work. Redcloak would proudly go meet the Dark One personally rather than do what some Thor worshipper said.

"You're out of healing spells and potions and down to your last 3HP. Now do as we say and contact your god and tell him to cooperate with Thor!"

That's the plan?

This is the same Redcloak who hasn't ever spoken with his god much if at all and does everything he can to avoid confronting his mistakes. He may sabotage the last Gate out of spite if something happens to him.

Of course, there's not too many options I can think of. Redcloak's too dug into his heels and we have no idea what the other forces, like the IFCC, have planned.

[Mike Havran]

Kill Xykon and then beat Redcloak to within an inch of his life so he'll change his mind?

Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work. Redcloak would proudly go meet the Dark One personally rather than do what some Thor worshipper said.

"You're out of healing spells and potions and down to your last 3HP. Now do as we say and contact your god and tell him to cooperate with Thor!"

That's the plan?

That would not be even sufficient. They need Redcloak to cast a 9th level spell equivalent at the gate... I can imagine quite well what kind of spell would Redcloak cast if being forced to do something against his will

[understatement]

(sarcasm) that's why Jirix stomped the demon roach: to become the person nemesis of roaches who are currently running through epic dungeons! (/sarcasm)

You're wrong. Jirix will arrive on the back of the young black dragon's green dragon girlfriend as the last Gate unravels, wielding the IFCC's chalice in one hand and Roy's properly-sized boot in the other.

[arimareiji]

Go Hammer, MC Hammer, Warhammer, Thor's Hammer!

XD

The only thing that saved me from spending the next twenty minutes trying to come up with a followup filk line, is knowing that I can't come up with one worthy of that. (^_~)

[hungrycrow]

Hammer diplomacy is sort of the worst plan, except for all the others. If they succeed, they're not in a very good position to convince Redcloak or TDO to cooperate, but at least they have time to figure out new options. If Redcloak reaches the gate however, a lot of irreversible bad things would happen. They have to stop that no matter what, and beating an epic lich in an ambush is still slightly more likely to work out than trying to reason with a guy willing to resort to omnicide.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Go Hammer, MC Hammer, Warhammer, Thor's Hammer!

Two more:

If I had a hammer...

Master, sir, did you just see my MAD SKILLZ!?

[durron597]

I would like to understand why Commune seems way more powerful than the standard rules. We know that spells have to be restricted to their defined uses or else they break the domain agreement. We also know that if gods break the rules, that every other god will notice.

I wonder if it's because Durkon hasn't yet asked a question? The information has mostly been one sided, Durkon to Thor. The rules do not say anything about how long or complicated the question is, just about how short the answers are.

[InvisibleBison]

I would like to understand why Commune seems way more powerful than the standard rules. We know that spells have to be restricted to their defined uses or else they break the domain agreement. We also know that if gods break the rules, that every other god will notice.

I wonder if it's because Durkon hasn't yet asked a question? The information has mostly been one sided, Durkon to Thor. The rules do not say anything about how long or complicated the question is, just about how short the answers are.

In the Geekery thread, it was proposed that what we're seeing here might not be commune at all, but rather the remote sensing and remote communication divine powers.