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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Hi Everyone!

    Im about to start DMing a new campaing and one of my players wants to play a "Captain America" style fighter. Thinking how this could work in my homebrew setting, i came to the conclusion that this could work better if it is a feat or a fighting style, rather than a magical shield that just hit and come back to the owner.

    So I would like some opinions or ideas for this feat/F.S!

    Meaby something like this (if it is a feat)


    • +1 str
    • Shields also count as a martial weapon for you, it has the Thrown property (30ft - 50ft). It does 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
    • The shield bounce back at the owner (for whatever reason, physics?). You do not get the +2 A.C bonus from the shield until it comes back. Also you need a free hand in order to grab without dificulties the shield when it bounce back.
    • If you gain the extra attack feature, the shield bounces to another target that is within 10ft of the original target before bounces back to the owner. Count this bounce as a separate attack.


    I know it may be broken or underpower, but its an example of what Im looking for.

    Thank you all!! :D
    Last edited by Zilen; 2021-04-13 at 06:07 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zhorn's Avatar

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    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    More of a topic for the homebrew forum.

    But on topic: I think the only real issue I'd say is returning weapon is more of a magic weapon function that you're baking into the feat.
    To use Captain America as our base point, he doesn't throw just any shield and has it bounce back, that's a very specific shield he's using for the returning property and would be analogous to being a magic item.

    If one of my players were asking to build such a character I would probably direct them to Tavern Brawler (proficiency on improvised weapons) possibly with Shield Master (and/or?) for being skilled at using the shield as a weapon (if a player has both of those I already allow shield bashing as a bonus action attack for 1d4+STR ).
    From there, throwing improvised weapons is a 20/60 range.
    Tack on an Artificer infusion onto the shield for Returning Weapon and done.

    Larger investment overall, but not as narrow in application and you are also getting the other benefits of the related feats.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhorn View Post
    More of a topic for the homebrew forum.

    But on topic: I think the only real issue I'd say is returning weapon is more of a magic weapon function that you're baking into the feat.
    To use Captain America as our base point, he doesn't throw just any shield and has it bounce back, that's a very specific shield he's using for the returning property and would be analogous to being a magic item.

    If one of my players were asking to build such a character I would probably direct them to Tavern Brawler (proficiency on improvised weapons) possibly with Shield Master (and/or?) for being skilled at using the shield as a weapon (if a player has both of those I already allow shield bashing as a bonus action attack for 1d4+STR ).
    From there, throwing improvised weapons is a 20/60 range.
    Tack on an Artificer infusion onto the shield for Returning Weapon and done.

    Larger investment overall, but not as narrow in application and you are also getting the other benefits of the related feats.
    Ty for the reply! Ill move this to that forum then, sorry!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Hi Everyone!

    Im about to start DMing a new campaing and one of my players wants to play a "Captain America" style fighter. Thinking how this could work in my homebrew setting, i came to the conclusion that this could work better if it is a feat or a fighting style, rather than a magical shield that just hit and come back to the owner.

    So I would like some opinions or ideas for this feat/F.S!

    Meaby something like this (if it is a feat)


    +1 str
    Shields also count as a martial weapon for you, it has the Thrown property (30ft - 50ft). It does 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
    The shield bounce back at the owner (for whatever reason, physics?). You do not get the +2 A.C bonus from the shield until it comes back. Also you need a free hand in order to grab without dificulties the shield when it bounce back.
    If you gain the extra attack feature, the shield bounces to another target that is within 10ft of the original target before bounces back to the owner. Count this bounce as a separate attack.


    I know it may be broken or underpower, but its an example of what Im looking for.

    Thank you all!! :D

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zhorn's Avatar

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    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilen View Post
    Ill move this to that forum then, sorry!
    No need to be sorry. just ask a mod and they should be able to move this thread over there for you, or merge it into one if you already have one made.
    Once you have a thread with traction, generally a good idea to stick with that rather than jumping ship to a new thread.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    I think this would work best as a magical item or framed as a supernatural ability.

    If I were in your shoes, I'd give every player a cool magic item or just let the one character have the ability to throw a shield (1d6+Str damage, 20/60 range, one-handed martial weapon) and have it return/ricochet for free. It doesn't break anything. Just make sure you allow other players to do cool things, it's bad form to play favorites.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Feb 2021

    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    You might have an easier time making a commonly available discus item, although the magic item sounds like a good way to go about it too. However, having an item be - perhaps +1 ac instead of +2, and you can use it to make a 1d4 + Dex / 1d6 + Str might be a cute weapon

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Jul 2019

    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilen View Post
    Hi Everyone!

    Im about to start DMing a new campaing and one of my players wants to play a "Captain America" style fighter. Thinking how this could work in my homebrew setting, i came to the conclusion that this could work better if it is a feat or a fighting style, rather than a magical shield that just hit and come back to the owner.

    So I would like some opinions or ideas for this feat/F.S!

    Meaby something like this (if it is a feat)


    +1 str
    Shields also count as a martial weapon for you, it has the Thrown property (30ft - 50ft). It does 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
    The shield bounce back at the owner (for whatever reason, physics?). You do not get the +2 A.C bonus from the shield until it comes back. Also you need a free hand in order to grab without dificulties the shield when it bounce back.
    If you gain the extra attack feature, the shield bounces to another target that is within 10ft of the original target before bounces back to the owner. Count this bounce as a separate attack.


    I know it may be broken or underpower, but its an example of what Im looking for.

    Thank you all!! :D
    Some time ago i made a monk archetype that uses a similar mechanic, take a look here!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Sep 2010

    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhorn View Post
    To use Captain America as our base point, he doesn't throw just any shield and has it bounce back, that's a very specific shield he's using for the returning property and would be analogous to being a magic item.
    Well, it's the Cap that applies his skill at throwing his shield to have it bounce as he intends (i.e. non-magical), but the shield's unique properties is what makes it possible to pull off those maneuvers (so... magical, I guess).

    Other character with Cap's shield - good for an initial throw with uncontrolled bounces.

    Cap with other shield - good for an initial throw, limited bounce capability, but any bouncing is controlled because the Cap still knows how to work with sub-optimal tools.

    -DF

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    I think the shield needs the light property too, so it can be used with two weapon fighting, or give it some other way to combine punches and shield bashes/throws. It would definitely feel more like Captain Steroids America if he was duking it out with his fist as well. You also specified you don't get the AC benefit of the shield until it comes back but it doesn't seem to take any in-game time to come back or have any chance to fail, so that doesn't really matter.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

    Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).



    Nod, get treat.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Oct 2019

    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Unless you house rule away the RAW requirement to burn an action to don or doff a shield the PC will not gain the benefit of +2 AC of wielding a shield while using it as a weapon.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zhorn's Avatar

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    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    @DwarfFighter, mostly agree. The throwing the shield as a range attack makes sense as a function of skill, hence having that aspect based of a mix of Tavern Brawler/Shield Master in my post, with the returning quality being a quality dependant on the shield.
    Mostly what I was looking at was where in the rules and narrative of the mechanics can we get as close as possible to the desired end result with the least homebrewing as possible.
    A specific magic item doing all the work lock the player into only ever being able to perform that maneuver with that specific item, and a feat built exclusively for that maneuver locks out others who's not taken that feat from even performing a close approximation.

    As a function of an improvised weapon attack, the base structure can be attempted without any investment (throwing a object as an improvised weapon attack) with technique and training via feats improving the skill reliability, and the infusion to supply the return without locking it to a specific item (still a specific property needed, but not something that is unique, nor incompatible with other magic items should upgrades become available).

    Quote Originally Posted by da newt View Post
    Unless you house rule away the RAW requirement to burn an action to don or doff a shield the PC will not gain the benefit of +2 AC of wielding a shield while using it as a weapon.
    Maybe the Shield Training feat from the 2020 UA instead of Shield Master?
    Such a shame that one didn't make the cut for Tasha's.
    Last edited by Zhorn; 2021-04-14 at 07:00 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Oct 2015

    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilen View Post
    Hi Everyone!

    Im about to start DMing a new campaing and one of my players wants to play a "Captain America" style fighter. Thinking how this could work in my homebrew setting, i came to the conclusion that this could work better if it is a feat or a fighting style, rather than a magical shield that just hit and come back to the owner.

    So I would like some opinions or ideas for this feat/F.S!

    Meaby something like this (if it is a feat)


    • +1 str
    • Shields also count as a martial weapon for you, it has the Thrown property (30ft - 50ft). It does 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
    • The shield bounce back at the owner (for whatever reason, physics?). You do not get the +2 A.C bonus from the shield until it comes back. Also you need a free hand in order to grab without dificulties the shield when it bounce back.
    • If you gain the extra attack feature, the shield bounces to another target that is within 10ft of the original target before bounces back to the owner. Count this bounce as a separate attack.


    I know it may be broken or underpower, but its an example of what Im looking for.

    Thank you all!! :D
    Remove the +1 strength. You can add/remove that after determining the strength of the finished feat. I think this is easily full feat territory.

    Making a shield into a martial weapon means you can use two weapon fighting bonus action if your other weapon is light. You can also use it with dual wielder. Normally this is weak, but the biggest consequence of dual wielding is normally your inability to use a shield or two handed weapon. Here it is a nice free bonus action, so it does inflate the feats strength.

    You don't mention when the shield returns. Most returning weapons come back immediately, and it should. In turn-based games leaving objects in suspended animation doesn't work well.

    How does the bouncing back interact with things like quick throw maneuver?

    I think this is best implemented as either a subclass or unique weapon. But I think this feat is working fine too.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Thrown Shield Fighting Ideas

    Thank you both!

    Ill check that out!!

    Mmmm, its a good idea that he should be able to punch as well. Meaby something like a B.A for punching after you used your action to throw the shield.

    You do have a point in there, in normal scenarios the shield goes and comes back in the same turn. And if it misses the shield bounces with terrain and comes back.

    Ty!

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