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Thread: New UA: Draconic Options
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2021-04-15, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
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2021-04-15, 05:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Yes it would, that was a big derp on my part haha.
The breath weapon isn't a bonus action, so not sure what you're going for here. It's part of your attack action, so it competes with Wild Shape attacks, but is at least usable. You're spot on with telepathy and limited flight being super handy, though.Last edited by Hytheter; 2021-04-15 at 06:03 AM.
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2021-04-15, 06:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
I stand corrected. Not only is it not multiattack compatible, it literally takes your one attack action to do it. I guess you could multiclass for Extra Attack or Action Surge, but that would be a pretty bad thing to do.
Every Druid level is a good Druid level, etc, ect.
Seems pretty bad then, I guess.
Still, whatever, you can throw out a flame breath every once in a while, just for giggles. Even in wildshape. A ribbon, but a fun one 🎀
"Hey, you know Burning Hands, and can cast it as a racial ability a few times a day! With funky damage typing! Even in wildshape! Huzzah!"Last edited by sambojin; 2021-04-15 at 06:56 AM.
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2021-04-15, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
"As a bonus action, you can touch a simple or martial weapon and infuse it with one of the following damage types"
I had wrongly assumed that the Beast's natural weapons weren't eligible, but they totally are (because they are explicitly denoted as simple melee weapons).
Unarmed strikes, however, are not. Le sigh. The requisite wording is awkward, but this totally needs to allow something like touching a creature to infuse its unarmed strikes and natural weapons, or it will be yet another thing that is great for Monks, except not.Last edited by x3n0n; 2021-04-15 at 08:02 AM.
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2021-04-15, 08:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Here's a crazy idea: Depending on the books you have at hand, you could use the Rakdos Cultist background that puts Haste on your Spell List, open with Haste and Wild Shape. Use the Haste action to attack and replace that with the breath weapon, do your full Multiattack as an action.
Not a bad use for a haste action in general, now that I think about it.
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2021-04-15, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Ah, you are correct.
Okay, this goes back down to being a solid spell, and not an OP death spell. Thank you for the correction.
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My problem with this is the Feat has to compete with other feats, and for the Barbarian, Fighter and Monk this is a 1/day cure wounds. That is going to give you an average of something like 6 hp? Sure, it could be the Fighter giving up their entire action to revive the barbarian (or vice-versa) but that needs to be a fairly desperate situation, and a lot of other feats could be just as useful. For example, Healer. That gives you an average of 11 hp (double) to each party member, per short rest. Same cost of an action as well.
The shielding could be good, maybe that can carry the feat, but "learn cure wounds" isn't a great ability for anyone except arcane casters, and there are a few different ways to get that already between Magic Initiate, Artificer Initiate, and I think one of the touched feats.
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Yes.
Not being entirely silly here, I'd say the intent is to cover intimidation, rallying cries, or maybe even some freaky echolocation magic. It works against everyone though, so I say flavor it for the the situation at hand, or the character using it.
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Eh, one thing the Charm condition can do though is to prevent all of those enemies from attacking you. Niche and on a random roll, but it could be useful
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2021-04-15, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Yep. Gishes like Hexblades. Also something like a Paladin 2/Sorcerer X who doesn't want to use one of their few Paladin spells known on CW. Similar with a melee Ranger, who may want to use their limited spells known for something else.
Otherwise useful on other sorts of more frontline arcane casters, such as a tankier Wizard like an Medium Armor Abjurer or possibly Bladesinger.
Maybe an Eldritch Knight, although their spell slots are pretty limited.Last edited by RogueJK; 2021-04-15 at 08:59 AM.
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2021-04-15, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
If I already have the Shield spell and am Int-casting, I'd probably prefer Artificer Initiate a significant majority of the time just so I can get Guidance. (Shield is much better, but costs spell slots; this reaction is much, much worse but uses a disjoint set of resources.)
I think non-Hexblade, non-Celestial melee warlocks and Rangers have the strongest case here. The high-Cha Pal2/SorX probably has enough spell preps to not need CW from this and has access to Shield via Sorc. (Hexblade might want it for spell slot reasons, but the opportunity cost feels really high.)
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2021-04-15, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Yeah, even though Hexblades have access to Shield, outside of low levels Shield isn't always all that useful on a Hexblade. It's not often worth burning 50% of your 3rd, 4th, or 5th level spell slots on Shield. This gives you an alternate option to leverage your Reaction for a defensive boost.
Compare to Defensive Duelist, which is another feat that lets you use your Reaction for defensive benefit:
DD Pros:
-Fixed AC bonus that scales with Proficiency
-Unlimited uses per day
DD Cons
-Minimum DEX requirement
-Must be wielding a Finesse weapon
-No Cure Wounds
-Not Shareable
-Only usable against melee attacksLast edited by RogueJK; 2021-04-15 at 09:26 AM.
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2021-04-15, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
I think that's kind of the issue, you're not being entirely silly. These are kobolds. The lemmings of D&D. One of their premier monsters is an "inventor" with such tools as: a scorpion on a stick. A grenade that's just a wasp nest. And the terrible bio warfare tool known as skunk in a cage.
This kobold reads like it's trying to be all cool and draconic, and that's not what a kobold is. Kobolds are these insane weird little things that make goblins look tough.
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2021-04-15, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
That is one version of them, and you could reflavor their "roars" to be that way. Maybe the advantage is from the enemies thinking it is cute or funny.
But, I think there are multiple types of Kobolds in the multiverse, and I've never really been a fan of the silly versions. But, that is personal preference.
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2021-04-15, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
I'm not complaining about not getting more examples, my issue with this is that your go to example for 'being a straight Wizard' was the Iron Wizard, or quite frankly anything that depended on a feat. Whilst Wizards (like anyone else) can certainly benefit from feats, playing a straight one doesn't necessitate feats and V. Human is a super common race choice in my experience.
Looks to me as if the wizard would be better off with the Healer feat instead. Cheap healing every short rest with no spell slot cost plus unlimited popup heals. I think this example is undermining your point instead of supporting it.
Persepective point for me: I don't like pop up healing mechanically or thematically, constantly brining someone up at 1hp will likely lead to their downing if not outright death and in my games would earn said person increasing amounts of exhaustion.
If you pick another wizard besides Bladesinger then Gift of the Metallic Dragons (or whatever the name is) gets even worse because now you're even less likely to be able to get value out of the protective half of the feat (can't protect front-liners without being near the front line, and for protecting yourself you won't typically want to risk spending your reaction on a mere +d4 to AC against a single hit because that leaves you unable to Shield against other hits vs. your crummy AC), so now you're getting expensive subpar healing and very little else.
You can also read the situation, it may be that you could only take a single attack that turn because the others have already been spent on your allies, a lot of the time the potential of Shield is barely touched.
It's not a compelling feat.
I mean, you quoted an example where the Wizard was the one taking the feat, it has significantly less value to anyone that doesn't have slots. If you're taking a feat primarily to have a heal, and don't have slots, then it's easily Healer since it's the only one that gives you more than a single use.
The point about this vs Magic Initiate is that it's a pick your casting mod feat, when imo there's very strong flavour ties to it for Cha instead.
I feel the same about choose your own casting mod as I do about this massive push towards prof mod uses, not good.For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge
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2021-04-15, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Well I may never play anything other than these options again, glad to see them dragonfolks aren't badly underpowered any more.
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2021-04-15, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
I foresee a number of Emerald Dragonborn Bearbarians in the future, for people who want All The Resistance.
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2021-04-15, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
But, I think you are stating the issue like it is the solution.
This feat isn't good for people who don't have spell slots. That cuts out quite a few classes. Then, for the classes that do have spell slots, six of them have this spell natively, and two more can get it something similar with a subclass (Celestial Soul and Celestial Warlock)
That leaves.... wizards. And of all the classes who could have the AC increase (which isn't that great, being only a +1d4 and within 5ft), wizards are the least useful class to have that on.
And, if a wizard really wants a int-based cure wounds... Artificer Initiate gives that to them. With the same spell slot casting. So, this might be better than Artificer Initiate because it gives two abilities, but compare with the other two feats, and this one isn't offering something truly exciting for all classes.
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2021-04-15, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2019
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I feel a bit weird about the flavoring of Kobold's Mighty Roar ability - like, the little fellow does a surprisingly terrifying draconic roar, but only things within 10 ft can hear it? Or does a kobold's attempt at projecting their voice really fall off quickly, so someone 15 or 20 ft away doesn't get the impressive effect?
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2021-04-15, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
It cuts out 4 classes, 2 of which have casting subclasses.
We have a different opinion, just because a class/subclass can have Cure Wounds doesn't mean that they don't benefit by offloading it to a feat rather than their own spell list, especially when it comes with a free casting.
Both of the Paladins (one a Divine Soul Sorcadin), the Ranger (who didn't take CW because of limited spells known), and Bard I Dm would like this feat for both the CW known and freecasting, as well as the AC bump. On top of that the Fighter (Battlemaster) and Rogue/Barbarian would probably enjoy it as well since it offers other character protection and allows them to heal others when needed and themselves between harder fights.
Again, my position is basically, I don't like choose your own stat casting and this feat really isn't as bad as it seems to be coming off.For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge
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2021-04-15, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Just a quick note here to say "must be wielding a Finesse weapon [at the time when DD is invoked]" isn't as big of a restriction as I once thought it was. A Crossbow Expert with Defensive Duelist can e.g. draw a dagger every round after shooting his crossbow, and then drop it before the next round of shooting. Ditto for a GWM user.
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2021-04-15, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2017
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
10 ft is just when you get really hit by it. Subsonic sound effected bodies is a real thing.
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But, here is the thing. Is "I don't have to prepare this anymore" worth giving up a different feat? Is the Paladin really seeing this as a great option compared to Warcaster to get advantage on con save versus losing Bless? OR Sentinel?
It is convenient, sure, but feats should be more than convenient
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2021-04-15, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Are those separate points? I feel like I've lost the thread of your argument(s?).
The choose-your-own-stat thing with respect to Cure Wounds is "Wizards shouldn't get it", as far as I can tell (Wis and Cha can just, you know, take the spell through any of several other means). I can be sympathetic to the Int/Wizard thing.
As far as the feat being good: I can believe that players would be happy taking it, especially a spells-known caster who expects to be targeted by enough attacks to have several barely-hits in an adventuring day.
I doubt that it is a particularly effective choice for any character without spell slots, but whatever.
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2021-04-15, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-04-15, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
I quite like being able to breath in place of an attack. I want to make a dragonborn bladesinger now, to just replace everything hahaha.
I will say that I'm a bit wary of the metal dragon's ability to incapacitate on an AoE as an attack, even if it's 1/LR.
I think Gem dragon might get nerfed. It's a bit loaded, with good damage types on breath, telepathy and flight. I would like to retain the telepathy for flavor, so I guess we'll see what they do with the flight.
Finally, I like the new spin on kobold to make them less swingy (garbage in sunlight, borderline OP in dark with Pact Tactics). However, I dislike the flavor of a "roar" on them. It should be more like a screech, or opossum hissing.Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
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2021-04-15, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Again, the feat is not that one thing, it is an additional point of consideration that can make it appealing (the same way that I like using Magic Initiate to grab Shield on a Sorcerer sometimes).
You reduced everyone that would benefit from it to basically Wizards, I just explained why that isn't how I see things, based on my own preferences and in game experiences with a variety of players (for whatever it's worth, said players all differ greatly in experience, from a 2nd edition player all the way up to started within the last year).
The comparison to all feats is also just nonsensical, a player can just simply not be interested in the feats you named because it doesn't fit their image of their character or their preferred playstyle. One Paladin has cast Bless a couple times, the other has never even prepared it and tries to maximise simultaneous support and damage. Neither have expressed any interest in Warcaster, it wasn't even in the running to them.
Feats don't compete against all feats simply because they exist, in practice they compete against other feats the player in question is considering for their character, making like for like feats the closest to consistent means of comparison. It's so player to player, table to table different that you can't write off any feat unless it is spectacularly terrible.
They are.
The choose-your-own-stat thing with respect to Cure Wounds is "Wizards shouldn't get it", as far as I can tell (Wis and Cha can just, you know, take the spell through any of several other means). I can be sympathetic to the Int/Wizard thing.
As far as the feat being good: I can believe that players would be happy taking it, especially a spells-known caster who expects to be targeted by enough attacks to have several barely-hits in an adventuring day.
I doubt that it is a particularly effective choice for any character without spell slots, but whatever.
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2021-04-15, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Thank you for saying that! Sometimes I feel like it's just me being grumpy and I worry I've become a grognard, so it's good to feel that I'm not the only one who feels this way. I just... I don't know. 5e design has just become so uninspired. It's all so neat and samey. Arcane magic is divine magic is psionics is ki, all the same. Races, classes, subclasses, feats... it's just so similar, I just don't get the spark of wonder I've always felt for D&D out of it. It feels like there's this big cloud of Balance and Simplicity that overpowers any attempt to color outside the lines, if that makes sense. The other week, it struck me that the last time I was truly excited for anything to come out of 5e was when the Mystic was in UA, and we all know what became of that.
At the same time, there are so many people who love 5e for what it does, so I'm pretty sure the best thing for me is to just accept that this edition is slipping away from me and start looking elsewhere. :(
(Edit: Not ruling out that I've become a grognard anyway, but at least I'm not alone in it. )Last edited by Warder; 2021-04-15 at 01:49 PM.
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2021-04-15, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2020
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
I'm super curious about two builds:
My Monk 1/ Bladesinger X, used to be Variant Human/Custom Origin for Unarmed Fighting style via Fighting Initiative, now I can recreate that with a slight downgrade via Kobold Tail Variant.
My Ascendant Dragon X/ Bladesinger 2 build seems like it will get a little bit more splashy with the AOE damage with both Extra Attacks consisting of, at Level 5 AD, one 3d8 Cone and one 2d6 Cone. That's on average 23 damage on both fails, 11 on success, which is still really nice if you're hitting a crowd.
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2021-04-15, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: New UA: Draconic Options
As someone who feels very similarly about most UAs and about Tasha's Cauldron of Everything (uninspired, many classes have no thematic reason to exist as something separate from the PHB classes--the game mechanics are sort of new but the themes aren't unique), may I offer my sympathies and also say that I've gotten a lot of satisfaction from the Chtulhu book, which showed me that 5E doesn't have to be uninspired and samey.
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2021-04-15, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
Thank you for pointing it out, I'll definitely check it out! And yeah, I think that's what gets to me the most - the foundations for 5e are so solid and it feels like it was designed for modularity, to be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. But everything official that comes out of WotC is just more of the same, and that's what's disappointing to me. But I guess that means that others step up to the plate, so it's a good opportunity for me to look to third party publishers, that's a very compelling point.
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2021-04-15, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
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2021-04-15, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: New UA: Draconic Options
I do like the spell name "Icingdeath's Frost Breath" - I'm assuming Icingdeath is a famous known dragon from a previous edition or novel, but I can't help but think of a very imposing ancient white dragon that runs a patisserie, known for impeccable frosting and glazes.
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2021-04-15, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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