The craziest party (trying to make the DM lose their mind)

[nickl_2000]

**EDIT**
Okay, to make it clear since I didn't to begin with. First of all, I don't really want to break a DM. I know that it's a lot of work and a good DM is not something you want to lose. This is a thought experiment on what would be the silliest/craziest way to do it. I don't get to play nearly as much as I would like and like to think about weird and silly stuff between games.


So, you have a party of four people and you want to make the most RNG possible party. One that is completely unpredictable and completely nuts how things will go. What are the 4 PCs?

My first thought.

• Wild Magic Sorcerer - Clearly you need this one since they are the Kings of crazy RNG
• Path of Wild Magic Barbarian - Another nice RNG class since you never know what they will be doing
• Alchemist Artificer - the potions give a nice RNG ring to it
• College of Glamour Bard

#4 is a hard one for me since there is much less RNG involved in that one. However, nothing breaks a game like a Bard trying to seduce the Harpy into joining you and no one does that as well as the College of Glamour.

[ProsecutorGodot]

The college of creation bard can be pretty chaotic, if nothing else it gives you the ability to regularly conjure up random temporary objects to try and sell (difficult, they're obviously magical) or just leave somewhere. If you get to 14th level the objects can be huge, just conjure up a massive shimmering rock in someone's place of business or a cage around someone.

Dancing items at 6th level are also pretty cool, turn discarded weapons or ammo into allies.

Again, not really RNG but Bard's make great agents of chaos.

[Droppeddead]

So, you have a party of four people and you want to make the most RNG possible party. One that is completely unpredictable and completely nuts how things will go. What are the 4 PCs?

My first thought.

• Wild Magic Sorcerer - Clearly you need this one since they are the Kings of crazy RNG
• Path of Wild Magic Barbarian - Another nice RNG class since you never know what they will be doing
• Alchemist Artificer - the potions give a nice RNG ring to it
• College of Glamour Bard

#4 is a hard one for me since there is much less RNG involved in that one. However, nothing breaks a game like a Bard trying to seduce the Harpy into joining you and no one does that as well as the College of Glamour.

Well, except the fact that there is nothing RNG about seducing harpies (no roll required, it just wouldn't work), what is the pointof trying to be annoying to the DM? Either way, a Lore Bard with Cutting Words or, even better, the Paragon of Luck is a great way to roll lots of dice.

[nickl_2000]

what is the pointof trying to be annoying to the DM?

Because it's a silly thought experiment to fill in the time between sessions and until covid is over.

[Dalinar]

+1 that "annoy the DM" is not a particularly great goal to have during character creation.

I would consider going the opposite route with the fourth character and going full dice manipulation. Divination 2 / Eloquence 18 for instance. Having to make tons of rolls for three characters then "that 14 is actually a 6" for the other one would be a nice contrast.

[Kurt Kurageous]

+1 that "annoy the DM" is not a particularly great goal to have during character creation.

I would consider going the opposite route with the fourth character and going full dice manipulation. Divination 2 / Eloquence 18 for instance. Having to make tons of rolls for three characters then "that 14 is actually a 6" for the other one would be a nice contrast.

Yeah, you pull this shenanigans at my table (if I even allow the builds), you will TPK. You wanna meta? I can meta too. Gibbering mouthers surround you, mind flayers battle a beholder, and winner gets to eat the survivors of the mouthers. At level 1. That will make you (or your characters) lose their minds. Then we start over with a less adversarial approach to the game. Or you find another DM.

[RogueJK]

I would consider going the opposite route with the fourth character and going full dice manipulation. Divination 2 / Eloquence 18 for instance. Having to make tons of rolls for three characters then "that 14 is actually a 6" for the other one would be a nice contrast.

Yep. A Halfling with the Lucky feat, going either straight Divination Wizard or something like this Eloquence Bard with Diviner dip.

[verbatim]

It's not RNG but a 1+ Paladin x 3+ Horizon Walker Ranger with 20 Charisma can detect the distance and direction to the closest planar portal within 1 mile them once per short/long rest and detect the location and type of any celestial, fiend, or undead within 60 feet of them that is not behind total cover 6 times per long rest (1 + CHA mod).

IDK that I've ever seen a DM hurt more than the time one introduced something that was obviously an undead into the plot so my Sorcadin could detect something with Divine Sense and I was out for the day.

[kaoskonfety]

I'm looking though and no one has suggested a party full of keen mind. Dice manipulation and forcing a million re-rolls is one thing.

Demanding to get the Barons speech verbatim 4 weeks later, the hair colour of the barmaid who served the sour ale 6 towns back, or a full spending audit for the past month - "cause my feat says so" Go heck.

I've banned Keen Mind as a DM: it pisses me off. Take notes yourselves ya jerks.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I'm looking though and no one has suggested a party full of keen mind. Dice manipulation and forcing a million re-rolls is one thing.

Demanding to get the Barons speech verbatim 4 weeks later, the hair colour of the barmaid who served the sour ale 6 towns back, or a full spending audit for the past month - "cause my feat says so" Go heck.

I've banned Keen Mind as a DM: it pisses me off. Take notes yourselves ya jerks.

I dunno, but then a players asks about eye colors of a 2d NPC, maybe ask them, "What color do you think they were?...You are right!"

As far as the Baron's speech, as a DM/Baron that should be something written out, maybe?

[Houster]

It's easy. All 4 characters can cast conjure animals, and choose 8 1/4cr beasts.

No one in the table wants to play dnd in the next 30 years.

[Nefariis]

It's easy. All 4 characters can cast conjure animals, and choose 8 1/4cr beasts.

No one in the table wants to play dnd in the next 30 years.

Sooo annoying! I actually made a rule at my table that the PC's can have either 1 or 2 summoned creatures and not 4 or 8 unless out of combat

Another annoying shtick is when there is a single build focused around fog cloud/darkness - "Great!, I guess this easy 3 round encounter is now 20 rounds because the other 7 people on the board can't do anything - fantastic!"

Halfling with Halfling Luck/Bountiful Luck can be annoying, but it can also be fun to watch the table get really excited when a critical miss turns into a killing blow

[kaoskonfety]

I dunno, but then a players asks about eye colors of a 2d NPC, maybe ask them, "What color do you think they were?...You are right!"

As far as the Baron's speech, as a DM/Baron that should be something written out, maybe?

My main point is all these dice mechanics things would not bother me in the slightest and will hinder player enjoyment more than mine. I make players track their d*** summons and if you wanna sit over there rolling dice and consulting tables for 3 minutes every turn... go nuts? I'm going to make a sandwich.

There are worse things to do to a DM that are not even generally malicious. Like wanting to 'remember things' and making me write out speeches in full and retaining them for undefined periods of time, just in case you ask. Seriously I cannot state enough my hate of Keen Mind. I suppose with everything being remote play these days I could just record the full sessions and hand them to the player, but that seems exactly as awful, but for the player.

[RogueJK]

Another annoying shtick is when there is a single build focused around fog cloud/darkness - "Great!, I guess this easy 3 round encounter is now 20 rounds because the other 7 people on the board can't do anything - fantastic!"

That's been my experience with a few past Darkness/Devil's Sight Warlocks as well.

"So... your one weird trick that you've built your entire character around and insist on using every combat, severely hampers the rest of the party. Congratulations. You may be having fun, but the rest of the table (including the DM) is not."

Granted, a Darkness/Devil's Sight Warlock doesn't necessarily have to handicap the party. But it's easy to do so, especially for an inexperienced player who just got done reading a bunch of stuff online about how cool the combo is (on paper), but hasn't thought through the appropriate strategies necessary.

[Nefariis]

Soooo I guess we've put together a

Halfling Wild Magic Sorc 1/ Lore Bard 6 (magical secrets: darkness/conjure animals) with feats bountiful luck and keen mind.

"So there we was in the middle of combat - 4 of us vs 4 of them. They weren't particularly strong blokes by any means, but I take absolutely no chances when I get in a tussle. I pop Conjure Animals for four black bear companions to make the numbers a little more in our favor for a right 8 on 4 scrap. However, not to be out done, their caster adds four black bear to the fray as well with their own casting of conjure animals - it is now 8 on 8.

I still like our odds, but I'm not taking any chances - I hit the area with Darkness for a little battle field control. Now mind you, no one in the area has the Devil's Sight - so there we all were, all 16 of us in the dark, not knowing if the person/animal next to us was friend or foe - 64 limbs flailing about frantically in a mad dash looking for something, anything, to hit.

To make matters a little more sticky, my Wild Magic seemed to have surged when the Darkness spell was cast, and suddenly there were a group of Flumphs (37-38) that appeared somewhere in the area nearby us. Now you might be asking yourself, 'How do I know they were Flumphs if the entire area was in darkness?' Well, great question - that's because of the immediate sounds telepathic screaming in undercommon that followed and filled our heads as they frantically flew about us seemingly frightened to death of the situation in which they were teleported into.

A full 10 minutes of mayhem then ensued - full of mental shrieking and the occasional blow to the face from both claw and fist until the darkness spell finally fell and we were able to properly see who it was exactly we were attempting to strangle - by that time everyone was utterly exhausted, both mentally and physically, so we decided to call it a draw - we then shook hands and headed back into the pub from which we came for another pint.

And that's when I knew - this was going to be how I handle every encounter in the future, either skill or combat.

If you would like to know more, I have a fairly Keen Mind, I wouldn't mind in the slightest to rehash the story again going into more detail - like about what everyone was wearing, the sizes, colors, and shape of each bear, general antics of what happened in those 10 minutes, and an impression/impersonation of what each Flumph said and sounded like - Honestly, I wouldn't mind at all. *looks over at the DM*"

[verbatim]

That's been my experience with a few past Darkness/Devil's Sight Warlocks as well.

"So... your one weird trick that you've built your entire character around and insist on using every combat, severely hampers the rest of the party. Congratulations. You may be having fun, but the rest of the table (including the DM) is not."

I've been thinking about a shadow monk build that I'm hesitant to play because of this, does anyone have any personal experience playing as/with or DM'ing for one?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I found out(from the player and DM side) that the best why to break the DM is a cleric and a lot of bards(one most be lore to make all the NPCs fail there rolls).
You can also add a divination wizard.

I've been thinking about a shadow monk build that I'm hesitant to play because of this, does anyone have any personal experience playing as/with or DM'ing for one?

Yes, I have one in a game that is running for 2 years and we just pass the half of it.

His mobility is amazing and really helpful.
We also use him as transport(25 str belt of giant strength and a portable hole).

[Rukelnikov]

I would go with all the things that can regularly and cosistenly mess with dice rolls

Portent
Chronal Shift
Cloud/Storm Rune
Runic Shield
Second Chance

And stuff like that, there are a couple more.

If you just want RNG so that the DM has to improv a lot, then you are kinda out of luck, besides Wild Sorcerer, most RNG stuff is in items, and not any of those that an Artificer can replicate, so you would need your DM to hand them to you.

[Kane0]

Have you considered a party of entirely noncombatants? Like, no focus on combat at all and throwing everything they can into social and exploration stuff.

[RogueJK]

I've been thinking about a shadow monk build that I'm hesitant to play because of this, does anyone have any personal experience playing as/with or DM'ing for one?

Yep, I've even played as a Shadow Monk myself. I cast Darkness a few times, when trying to break line of sight, or when holding a choke point against a horde of enemies, or to hamper a group of ranged enemies while we handled the group of their closer melee buddies. (It can even be situationally useful as a buff/debuff to level the playing field, if you and your allies are already at Disadvantage due to some effect, though I've never personally have the opportunity to utilize it like that.)

But Darkness (and having ability to see through it) isn't a schtick that Shadow Monks are based around. Being able to cast Darkness isn't even really one of their primary abilities, and won't see regular use by most players. More of a tertiary option, for the few times that the situation renders it useful. It also really helps that Shadow Monks can't see through their own Darkness, so you won't be tempted to just drop it smack dab in the middle of combat, other party members be darned.

The thing is, the Darkness spell itself isn't the problem. The issue is (selfish/inexperienced) players that want to plan an entire character strategy around their own ability to see through Darkness without regard for the fact that nobody else in the party will be able to do the same. What sounds like such a great strategy on paper in single-character white room hyper-optimization theorycrafting ends up being something totally different when playing with a group of teammates in the "real (game) world".

"I know! I'll make a Half-Drow Warlock with Elven Accuracy, then take Devil's Sight, and cast Darkness on top of the enemies in every combat so I'll always have Advantage! What a sweet strategy! Oh, wait... I have other party members? And they can't see through it? Well, I'm not going to let that stop me. C'mon Triple Advantage!"

[Wizard_Lizard]

Party of four...
Well.. shepherd druid with a billion summons would certainly drive me to insanity pretty quickly..

[Azuresun]

Well, except the fact that there is nothing RNG about seducing harpies (no roll required, it just wouldn't work)

Well, not with that attitude.

[CrazyCarppy]

While tons of randomness from dice may drive a dm crazy, who needs dice?
All you need is characters that do completely random things for no real reason.
Like wandering away in the middle of a close fight. Befriending npcs and gaining them as allies and then killing them. Not because that was the plan all along, but because.....well chaos.
A chaotically player pc is far more frustrating than mere tons of duce and random tables can ever be.

[Nefariis]

I've been thinking about a shadow monk build that I'm hesitant to play because of this, does anyone have any personal experience playing as/with or DM'ing for one?

I've been DMing 5e for 8 years and I have seen it a lot, my advice is to not play it unless the other melee characters also have Devil's sight.

It slows down combat and it makes everyone else useless - don't do it.

As an easy alternative that I've seen work very well is taking a two level dip of twilight cleric - his channel divinity creates 30ft of dim light centered on himself which would work with Shadow Monk's teleporting ability - as a bonus he will get tons of utility and all that sweet sweet temp HP

Channel Divinity: Twilight Sanctuary

At 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to refresh your allies with soothing twilight.

As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light. The sphere moves with you, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated or die. Whenever a creature (including you) ends its turn in the sphere, you can grant that creature one of these benefits:

You grant it temporary hit points equal to 1d6 plus your cleric level.

You end one effect on it causing it to be charmed or frightened

.

Have you considered a party of entirely noncombatants? Like, no focus on combat at all and throwing everything they can into social and exploration stuff.

This actually might be really fun as a DM and at the very least it would be a refreshing few sessions instead of always playing with a group of murder hobos.

While tons of randomness from dice may drive a dm crazy, who needs dice?
All you need is characters that do completely random things for no real reason.
Like wandering away in the middle of a close fight. Befriending npcs and gaining them as allies and then killing them. Not because that was the plan all along, but because.....well chaos.
A chaotically player pc is far more frustrating than mere tons of duce and random tables can ever be.

This is probably the correct answer to OP's question - if a player is chaotic, then it really doesn't matter how optimized his character is, he is going to be nearly impossible to play with. This also goes for people that play lazy or disinterested character types, if there is no motivation to save (or end) the world one way or another, then it kind of leaves the DM and the other players in tough spot.

[Theodoxus]

Another annoying shtick is when there is a single build focused around fog cloud/darkness - "Great!, I guess this easy 3 round encounter is now 20 rounds because the other 7 people on the board can't do anything - fantastic!"

I did this to great effect in AL. 2nd level ghostwise halfling moon druid named Skitters. The party got ambushed by bandits outside Phandelin. My init was kinda low, so the party had mostly engaged the bandits by the time my turn came up. Round 1: Fog Cloud on the milieu, Bonus Action: Turn into a giant spider and wade into the fog, using blindsense to seek out bandits. Round 2: The party worked on getting out of the fog (I hadn't told them my plan, so they weren't expecting it). I attacked the first bandit I sensed, killing him outright. The bandits then tried to flee the fog as they sensed a spider lurking. The rest of the party took up a perimeter, waiting for bandits to emerge. I used telepathy to notify a party member of bandit movements, and turned a deadly encounter (12 bandits) into a bloody mess on the road. The party's barbarian took the brunt of the damage when 4 bandits broke out of the fog near him. But the rest of the party was unscathed, other than our cleric who is deathly afraid of spiders... when I eventually emerged from the fog, he bolted off the road and into the forest. I burned my spells healing the barbarian...

I only did that trick once though.