Battle-Master-Mind Rogue/Fighter Questions

[camcoyote]

I am working on a Mastermind Rogue x / Battlemaster Fighter multiclass, but I have a few questions. The concept is a young upstart noble who is simultaneously a brilliant battlefield tactician and an avowed coward, hiding behind his "bodyguards" (i.e. the party) while throwing darts/daggers. I want to make good use of the Master of Tactics feature (bonus action ranged Help), and with Sharpshooter letting me throw darts at their long range, I would have an effective range of 30 to 60 feet. I don't want to multiclass outside of those two classes or choose different archetypes. I'm also not interested in cheesy, exploitative, broken, or otherwise subjectively rules-legal builds.

What I need help with is:

• What feats, fighting styles, and maneuvers should I choose, and in what order?
• Should I primarily be throwing daggers or darts?
• How much of a fighter dip I should take?
• When should I take fighter levels if I'm starting rogue?
• Any ideas for maneuvers that combo with features, spells, etc.

I'm going to start with feats first, because they come with the option of additional fighting styles and maneuvers.

FEATS

Crossbow Expert: Would need this if only using darts to throw at any enemy if there's one in melee range. Still wouldn't be able to make melee attacks with a dart without Tavern Brawler.

Fighting Initiate: Several fighting styles work well with thrown weapons. How valuable is spending a feat on a second one?

Martial Adept: I don't think I'm going to take more than 6 levels of Fighter at the most, limiting my Superiority Dice and maneuvers known.

Piercer: Not very impactful with the dart/dagger's d4. Can it be used to reroll Sneak Attack damage?

Sharpshooter: Pretty much mandatory. 10 flat damage isn't that spectacular for Rogues, but negating disadvantage at long range is necessary for darts. Does this also work with daggers?

Skulker: Not so sure about this one, it seems like it could be hit or miss. I don't see the character as a stealthy fighter.

Tavern Brawler: Would allow me to make a melee attack with a dart as an improvised weapon (using DEX as it's finesse). Doesn't seem like I'd get much out of it, but still worth considering.

Magic Initiate OR Spell Sniper and/or Warcaster: Either can be used to grab Booming Blade, and Warcaster would allow that to be used as an Opportunity Attack. How useful is this as opposed to, say, going High Elf? Does BB work with Spell Sniper, and if so, can you make a ranged attack with it using a thrown dagger? If you had Thrown Weapon Fighting, would that then allow you to draw a dagger for that attack if your hands were empty after throwing one or more darts on your turn?

FIGHTING STYLES

Archery: Seems mandatory if primarily using darts, and combos with Sharpshooter

Dueling: Works if I'm throwing daggers, but I get that and more with Thrown Weapon Fighting. I assume they stack?

Superior Technique: Like Martial Adept above, I'm not sure how valuable this is, or if it would be wasting a fighting style if I took this. One or the other, both, or neither?\

Thrown Weapon Fighting: Mandatory if throwing more than one dart/dagger per turn. If I go less than 5 levels Fighter, is this still worth it?

Two-Weapon Fighting: Only useful when throwing daggers and would require Thrown Weapon Fighting or Dual Wielder feat to get the full benefit.

MANEUVERS

Bait and Switch: Not a good pick overall, but I have a combo with Mastermind's Misdirection feature below.

Commander's Strike: Notably doesn't combo with bonus action Help. Value goes up with Extra Attack, and can combo with Distracting Strike.

Distracting Strike: For turns when I need my bonus action for Cunning Action, I can still dole out advantage to an ally, or combine with Help for advantage on two enemies. Is this that useful when I already have Help nearly every round?

Feinting Attack: Can't use this and bonus action Help in the same turn, but gives me sneak attack when my target isn't engaged with an ally. Also helps with Sharpshooter.

Goading Attack: Can this combine with Mastermind's Misdirection? Would be useful even when directing an attack at an adjacent ally.

Menacing Attack: Generally seems good. Sort of combos with Steady Aim.

Precision Attack: Combos with Sharpshooter. Can notably use in the same turn with Commander's Strike and Extra Attack, but I'm not sure when I would use this over Feinting Attack and vice-versa.

Quick Toss: At first this seems perfect for this build, but it uses my bonus action. This is the only option that allows me to throw a dart as a bonus action, but I wouldn't know when to use it over any other maneuver + Help. This also opens up the option of throwing a dart, dealing Sneak Attack Damage, then using your reaction to ready another attack, giving you a somewhat reliable second Sneak Attack in a round.

Trip Attack: Similar to Distracting Strike but with greater potential benefits and detriments depending on how many melee/ranged in your party.

DAGGERS OR DARTS?

Daggers would allow me to attack twice per turn without Extra Attack, and benefit from Two-Weapon Fighting and the Dueling fighting styles (which are mutually exclusive). Dueling does stack with Thrown Weapon Fighting, for an additional +8 per turn with Extra Attack. Doesn't work with the -5/+10 benefit of Sharpshooter, but might from the benefit that removes disadvantage at long range? Not sure. They can be used with maneuvers as both melee and ranged attacks. Much more expensive than fighting with darts.

Darts benefit from both Archery and Thrown Weapon Fighting, and require the latter or Dual Wielder in addition to Extra Attack from Battlemaster 5 to throw more than one per turn (aside from Quick Toss, which is a limited resource). Sharpshooter increases the effective range to 60, which might not be the case for daggers. Could possibly take Crossbow Expert to throw at melee or ranged targets alike with an enemy in melee, although Disengage helps that. They can't be used to make melee attacks except as improvised weapons. Much less expensive than daggers.

ROGUE LEVELS VS FIGHTER LEVELS

My initial thought was to go Rogue 17/Fighter 3, which would give me maneuvers in addition to the Mastermind Capstone. One more level of fighter gives me an additional ASI at the cost of 1d6 Sneak Attack. A fifth fighter level loses an ASI but gives me Extra Attack. 6th level gets me that ASI back for 1d6 Sneak Attack, and 7th gives me Know Your Enemy, the physical counterpart to Mastermind's Insightful Manipulator.

So how deep into fighter should I go? I definitely want to start with Rogue, so when should I multiclass and for how long?

MANEUVER COMBOS

Booming Blade + Disengage (or Pushing Attack): Since I primarily want to fight at range, this seems like a good option for when I need to get out of melee range of an enemy.

Distracting Strike + Commander's Strike: Requires Extra Attack or Action Surge. Would allow a second Rogue to get a Sneak Attack outside their turn.

Bait and Switch + Misdirection: You get a free Disengage and swap places with an ally, and either you or your ally get an AC bonus. If the enemy attacks you, you can direct the attack to your ally, who has increased AC. Usable against ranged attacks as well. Also, the Disengage frees up your bonus action to Help or Hide (if you're a Lightfoot Halfling).

Any other combos you can think of or recommend? Anything else you can think of regarding this build that I haven't mentioned is welcomed. I'd love to hear what ideas you have about making this build work. Thanks!

---

Edit: I watched Treantmonk's throwing build and realized that with a dart build, my attacks will almost never be magical. With that in mind, I'm considering a 2-level dip into Artificer as well for the Repeating Shot infusion. This has made it much more difficult to decide the cutoff points for each class. If I go Rogue 15/Fighter 3, I lose an ASI and Extra Attack. If I go Rogue 13, Fighter 5, my sneak attack will only ever be 7d6. That's not too bad, is it?

For 2 darts, that's: 2d4 + 10 (DEX) +4 (Thrown Weapon) +2 (Returning Weapon) +1d8 (or 2d8, maneuvers) +7d6 and a potential +20 (Sharpshooter) = Average 50 (70 with Sharpshooter)

Alternatively, I can use Quick Toss to throw a dart, then ready an Attack action to throw another during the enemy's turn, giving me a second Sneak Attack that round for an average of 74.5 (104.5). Still seems low, and not sustainable.

That's at level 20, so I'm not sure the damage is high enough for what a rogue should be putting out at that level. Can anyone tell me if that's low? I don't necessarily want to focus only on dealing damage, but want to create a character that offers a lot of utility and support capabilities. Considering that, is it a good tradeoff for higher DPR?

[Houster]

See treantmonk's chuck the axe thrower build. While it's not your build idea exactly, you will find a lot of answers there.

Always wanted to combine these subclasses. Sound really fun and party supportive.

[camcoyote]

See treantmonk's chuck the axe thrower build. While it's not your build idea exactly, you will find a lot of answers there.

Always wanted to combine these subclasses. Sound really fun and party supportive.

After I saw your comment, I took a look at the video and it's interesting, but a pretty big departure from what I'm looking to build. Going Artificer 2 is a good idea for Returning Weapon since the darts won't be magical. With that in mind, I'm considering possibly only going Rogue 13 or even Fighter 3 instead of 5 depending on how much I value Extra Attack. Now I'm really not sure what my cutoff points should be.

[Houster]

Can't say I remember what the difference is between daggers and darts, but if you ask me, rogue is there only for master of tactics, you wanna go at least 8 fighter for extra attack and an extra feat.
From there battlemaster kinda gets worse, being that you only get to choose the maneuvers you didn't... so in theory it just gets worse.So from there you can go back to rogue, unless you want extra attack(3 attacks).

[camcoyote]

Can't say I remember what the difference is between daggers and darts, but if you ask me, rogue is there only for master of tactics, you wanna go at least 8 fighter for extra attack and an extra feat.
From there battlemaster kinda gets worse, being that you only get to choose the maneuvers you didn't... so in theory it just gets worse.So from there you can go back to rogue, unless you want extra attack(3 attacks).

Darts are the only ranged weapon with the Thrown property, making them the only Thrown weapon that qualifies for Sharpshooter.

Rogue is essential to the concept for a number of reasons, even if it's not the most optimal choice:

• Cunning Action to disengage when I am forced into melee, plus Uncanny Dodge and Evasion for survivability. The character is more of a coward and less of a fighter, so things that increase my survivability (especially Misdirection which requires Mastermind Rogue 13) fit the character more thematically
• Sneak Attack to bolster DPR, which is pretty low for this build
• I didn't mention in my post, but many skill- and tool-based proficiencies and options are vital to how I want to play this character outside of combat, especially with Reliable Talent and Insightful Manipulator. I wanted to optimize him as much as I could in combat with this build since he's more roleplay-focused in other aspects (e.g. Sleight of Hand to cheat at cards, Expertise in History, noble of a disgraced house so he makes prodigious use of the disguise and forgery kits, etc.)

What I'm really not happy with is the nearly mandatory Artificer dip; without it I could get to Fighter 7 or Rogue 15.

[J-H]

Go Halfling and then take the Bountiful Luck feat. Now you can help your allies not make mistake by giving them proper supervision in combat.

I also like Inspiring Leader on this type of character.

[Man_Over_Game]

Artificer isn't required. Tasha's added the Thrown Weapon fighting style, so you can attack with as many Thrown weapons as you want.

[Houster]

Artificer isn't required. Tasha's added the Thrown Weapon fighting style, so you can attack with as many Thrown weapons as you want.

He means not the returning property, but the ability to consistently throw magical weapons.

Can't see a way around that.

[ZRN]

Can't say I remember what the difference is between daggers and darts, but if you ask me, rogue is there only for master of tactics, you wanna go at least 8 fighter for extra attack and an extra feat.

Uncanny Dodge and Evasion both seem pretty relevant to the character concept.

[quindraco]

You'll need to be closer, but the best thrown weapon with sharpshooter is nets. There are several ways to make the rules explode with nets, and sharpshooter is one of them, even though the real reason you took the feat was simply to throw the net farther away. I'll sum up the most important two rulings your GM will need to make, and an optional third one:

First of all, what happens when an effect adds untyped damage to a net? Examples abound: Sneak Attack, Hunter's Mark, the thrower's dexterity, etc. There is no RAW in the PHB on what damage "-" means (it could mean 0, and it could mean anything else - there's literally no rule), and no rule saying damage can't be untyped - but untyped damage is also very OP, so your GM might want to assign a damage type. This is directly related to the infamously necessary ruling on how flame tongue rapiers even work.

Second is the same question, but for typed - Hex, Genielocks, and so on. If the answer is that Hunter's Mark doesn't work but Hex does, this means untyped damage works but only in conjunction with typed, so you'll want a source of typed damage (like Hex) so you can legally add Sharpshooter damage. This is the RAI on flame tongue rapiers, incidentally - there's a JC tweet clarifying that the RAI is that anything adding untyped damage to typed damage can choose any available type (attacker's choice), so e.g. when you swing a flame tongue rapier, you can add your stat to the piercing or the fire, as you like.

I believe we have a JC tweet that the RAI is that nets that would deal X untyped damage can't, as that's the intended meaning of "-", but I am not aware of a JC tweet clarifying the RAI on nets that would deal typed damage.

Third, optional ruling: the RAW on an Artificer's returning net is clear, but also unfathomably stupid: the net returns to the thrower but the target is still restrained. The target is still entitled to checks to escape but usually no longer has a practical way to damage the net; nonetheless, if the net is destroyed, the target escapes. I've seen GMs rule, to reduce stupidity, both that returning drags the target to the thrower and then stops, and that a returning net that hits simply doesn't return at all. It's just something to keep in mind.

Anyway. If you want to throw things and help the party, nets can't be beat - any Large or smaller target that is hit is restrained until freed, even if it can trivially free itself. Sharpshooter removes the disadvantage at range and crossbow mastery or gunner within 5 feet, as you like.

[Nefariis]

As someone that has both DM'ed and played with a mastermind rogue, the help action as a bonus action is fairly underwhelming compared to some of the other rogue sub classes - and it's absolutely garbage if you are taking Sharpshooter.

With Sharpshooter and not using your bonus action to attack you are giving up an extra 1d6 + 15 damage (and an opportunity for sneak damage) which is much much more useful than giving someone else advantage on a single attack. If you take sharpshooter, you have declared yourself the damage dealer, so unless you are giving advantage to a Crit Fishing Smiting GWM Paladin, you should be taking all the attacks you can get.

Instead of the Master Mind have you looked at the Scout?

The class has this feature -

Skirmisher
Starting at 3rd level, you are difficult to pin down during a fight. You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesnÂ’t provoke opportunity attacks.

which to me fits waaay better into the coward theme - its a reaction disengage which would free up your bonus action - which then you can take Crossbow expert

At level 8 (fighter 5 / rogue 3) the damage would be 5d6 + 12 + 30 (Sharpshooter) = 59.5 or 73 with maneuvers (+3d8) plus two more skills/expertise you wouldn't get with mastermind

[Man_Over_Game]

I think it's a little bit scattered of a build.

Between Sharpshooter on a Rogue, combining Mastermind with a DPS focus, and orienting the build around forcing a way to deal magic damage with throwing weapons, it's kind of all over the place and doesn't really excel at any one of them. Is it a support? Is it a damage dealer? Even when it tries to do both at the same time (Battlemaster maneuvers), it doesn't take the role seriously enough by trying to do it in other ways.

It's okay to have options, but what you're trying to do is be a side-support while dealing as much damage as everyone else, and that's not all that feasible. Start prioritizing what's important to you, sacrifice the rest, and everything will get a lot simpler.

For instance, I think the build would end up a lot better by just capping Rogue at level 1. This can either afford you those Artificer levels you need, gives you more battlemaster stuff or feats to work with, and it frees up your Bonus Action for anything else you think it can benefit. Artificer, too, can be ignored by just accepting that you won't be dealing magic damage without certain gear (which is true of most Fighters).

[KorvinStarmast]

ROGUE LEVELS VS FIGHTER LEVELS
I definitely want to start with Rogue, so when should I multiclass and for how long?

How soon do you want second wind and action surge?

The build plan on this should probably be carefully managed level by level if you are beginning at level 1.

Rogue at 1.
Rogue at 2 (Cunning Action seems to be a key to this build)
Fighter at 3
Fighter at 4
Fighter at 5.
Rogue until you get tired of roguing.

Weird feat suggestion: Sentinel. When the enemy is at speed 0, easier to get away from.

SENTINEL
1. When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature’s speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
2. Creatures provoke opportunity attacks from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach.
3. When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn’t have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

Granted, that might not fit your "hide behind the party" but as fluid as 5e movement is in terms of getting around other creatures, this might work out.

[ZRN]

I thought I'd add in that the new UA hobgoblin is a perfect race for a mastermind, as other have noted on this forum.

If you're going to screw with your original concept to try to wedge in magic throwing weapons via artificer or whatever, could I suggest just using a hand crossbow instead? Hiding behind your bodyguards and shooting people with a crossbow is plenty cowardly!

[Nefariis]

Unfortunately the battle field controllers of 4e just don't exist in 5e.

other than Maneuvering Attack and Pushing Attack, there really isn't much in the way of Battlefield Control for Battle Masters.

If you want to help the party through utility, Artificers are awesome - they are really fun to play and they are greatly appreciated at every table - plus they can still fit in that bookworm/coward theme.

If you want to go damage/sharpshooter, you need 3-4 attacks and your bonus action.

[camcoyote]

You'll need to be closer, but the best thrown weapon with sharpshooter is nets. There are several ways to make the rules explode with nets, and sharpshooter is one of them, even though the real reason you took the feat was simply to throw the net farther away. I'll sum up the most important two rulings your GM will need to make, and an optional third one:

First of all, what happens when an effect adds untyped damage to a net? Examples abound: Sneak Attack, Hunter's Mark, the thrower's dexterity, etc. There is no RAW in the PHB on what damage "-" means (it could mean 0, and it could mean anything else - there's literally no rule), and no rule saying damage can't be untyped - but untyped damage is also very OP, so your GM might want to assign a damage type. This is directly related to the infamously necessary ruling on how flame tongue rapiers even work.

Second is the same question, but for typed - Hex, Genielocks, and so on. If the answer is that Hunter's Mark doesn't work but Hex does, this means untyped damage works but only in conjunction with typed, so you'll want a source of typed damage (like Hex) so you can legally add Sharpshooter damage. This is the RAI on flame tongue rapiers, incidentally - there's a JC tweet clarifying that the RAI is that anything adding untyped damage to typed damage can choose any available type (attacker's choice), so e.g. when you swing a flame tongue rapier, you can add your stat to the piercing or the fire, as you like.

I believe we have a JC tweet that the RAI is that nets that would deal X untyped damage can't, as that's the intended meaning of "-", but I am not aware of a JC tweet clarifying the RAI on nets that would deal typed damage.

Third, optional ruling: the RAW on an Artificer's returning net is clear, but also unfathomably stupid: the net returns to the thrower but the target is still restrained. The target is still entitled to checks to escape but usually no longer has a practical way to damage the net; nonetheless, if the net is destroyed, the target escapes. I've seen GMs rule, to reduce stupidity, both that returning drags the target to the thrower and then stops, and that a returning net that hits simply doesn't return at all. It's just something to keep in mind.

Anyway. If you want to throw things and help the party, nets can't be beat - any Large or smaller target that is hit is restrained until freed, even if it can trivially free itself. Sharpshooter removes the disadvantage at range and crossbow mastery or gunner within 5 feet, as you like.

As I said in my post, I'm not interested in cheesy, exploitative, broken, or otherwise subjectively rules-legal builds. I would honestly never even ask my DM to consider adding any damage to a net attack. RAI as far as I'm aware, in order to apply additional damage to an attack, the attack must be capable of dealing damage. Take a tweet from Jeremy Crawford, which I am unable to add to my comment, but is quoted below:

Sneak Attack causes the weapon it uses to deal more damage. The intent is that an unusual weapon like the net that deals no damage doesn't magically start dealing damage with Sneak Attack. But a DM is free to override that intent. The RAW certainly isn't entirely clear here. #DnD

I have considered the use of a net using either the Quick Toss maneuver and following up with attacks at advantage, or forgoing the Extra Attack and combining Crossbow Expert with Precision Attack and Archery to make very accurate melee-ranged net throws followed up with a hand crossbow attack. It definitely gives a good support vibe, I'm just not sold on him getting that close to enemies willingly, and I really want to stick to the knife-throwing visual (even if I have to flavor darts as throwing knives).

[camcoyote]

As someone that has both DM'ed and played with a mastermind rogue, the help action as a bonus action is fairly underwhelming compared to some of the other rogue sub classes - and it's absolutely garbage if you are taking Sharpshooter.

With Sharpshooter and not using your bonus action to attack you are giving up an extra 1d6 + 15 damage (and an opportunity for sneak damage) which is much much more useful than giving someone else advantage on a single attack. If you take sharpshooter, you have declared yourself the damage dealer, so unless you are giving advantage to a Crit Fishing Smiting GWM Paladin, you should be taking all the attacks you can get.

Instead of the Master Mind have you looked at the Scout?

The class has this feature -



which to me fits waaay better into the coward theme - its a reaction disengage which would free up your bonus action - which then you can take Crossbow expert

At level 8 (fighter 5 / rogue 3) the damage would be 5d6 + 12 + 30 (Sharpshooter) = 59.5 or 73 with maneuvers (+3d8) plus two more skills/expertise you wouldn't get with mastermind

I really want to stick with the darts as my primary weapon, which wouldn't work with Crossbow Expert's second attack. I would still get a bonus action throw with Quick Toss, however. At fighter 5/rogue 3, that would give me 3d4+12+6+2d6+30+1d8 = 67 and only uses one maneuver. I wouldn't be able to sustain this longer than 4 or 5 rounds, but Superiority Dice recharge on a short rest and I have plenty of uses for my bonus action with Cunning Action and Master of Tactics. Also with my build, I can throw everything with a single hand, leaving my other hand free to hold a melee weapon in case I need to make an opportunity attack. All crossbows require one free hand to load them, and you can't both draw and stow a weapon on your turn, so the only way to have a melee weapon out at the end of your turn that I can think of is to drop it as a free action at the beginning of your turn, attack with the crossbow, pick it back up as your object interaction, and end your turn. Which seems kind of cheesy to me, but I guess it's fine.

I have considered the Scout, as well as the Inquisitive (which I adore, but not for this build), the Phantom (for the free floating proficiency, giving a Jack of All Trades vibe and +1/2 Sneak Attack), and the Thief (a different type of mobility and utility, bonus action Sleight of Hand), but what I really like about the Mastermind with this build is the Master of Intrigue, Insightful Manipulator, and Misdirection features at levels 3, 9 and 13. As much as my post is focused on combat, a significant part of the build is dedicated to the utility and roleplay aspects of the character.

The bonus action Help is okay, and I plan on using it in combat only as often as an ally will get significant use out of it (GWM paladin is fishing for crits, party bruiser is going to grapple or shove, another rogue needs Sneak Attack, party wizard is casting Dispel Magic/Counterspell/Telekinesis). Outside of combat, I can get quite a bit more utility out of it by assisting two different party members at once that are up to 60 feet away from each other (with me in the exact center). This can be used in ways an ordinary Help action could never simply due to the range, as well as aiding in physical or skill checks like Athletics to climb, Perception/Investigation to spot things, Survival checks to forage or follow tracks, or even in social encounters using Master of Intrigue to pretend I'm a local, an eye witness, a neighbor, member, etc. I can even dole out advantage when I am using my action to make an ability check, so it is always handy.

As unimpressive as Misdirection seems, I really love the flavor and possible combinations with different maneuvers like Goading Attack or Bait and Switch. The bonus proficiencies help with the character's background (noble of a disgraced house, so he uses the disguise and forgery kit to re-enter high society); I know I can get them from the Charlatan background, but I wanted very specific skill and tool proficiencies (History, Arcana, Playing Card Set and more). All things considered, Mastermind has what I'm looking for in several areas, it's just kind of lackluster in combat.

[camcoyote]

I think it's a little bit scattered of a build.

Between Sharpshooter on a Rogue, combining Mastermind with a DPS focus, and orienting the build around forcing a way to deal magic damage with throwing weapons, it's kind of all over the place and doesn't really excel at any one of them. Is it a support? Is it a damage dealer? Even when it tries to do both at the same time (Battlemaster maneuvers), it doesn't take the role seriously enough by trying to do it in other ways.

It's okay to have options, but what you're trying to do is be a side-support while dealing as much damage as everyone else, and that's not all that feasible. Start prioritizing what's important to you, sacrifice the rest, and everything will get a lot simpler.

For instance, I think the build would end up a lot better by just capping Rogue at level 1. This can either afford you those Artificer levels you need, gives you more battlemaster stuff or feats to work with, and it frees up your Bonus Action for anything else you think it can benefit. Artificer, too, can be ignored by just accepting that you won't be dealing magic damage without certain gear (which is true of most Fighters).

I have mentioned this in other comments, but the build is primarily focused on out of combat utility and support. The purpose of this thread was primarily twofold: to shore up a glaring weakness in the damage department (it's a reflavored knife throwing build; I knew it was never going to be that powerful), and to fulfill the concept of a self-preserving pretty boy who doesn't like to get his hands dirty and hates the sight of his own blood.

A significant portion of the build was not included in the post, including skill and tool proficiencies and Expertise, implementation and roleplay of abilities such as Insightful Manipulator and Master of Intrigue, and largely anything to do with his character, personality, ideals, and goals, all of which contribute substantially to a utility and support-oriented character. It's also a character I made for a specific DM I play with that allows me to use all of my tool proficiencies in various ways (of which this build by level 20 has Calligrapher's Supplies, Cartographer's Tools, Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit, Painter's Supplies, Playing Card Set, Thieves' Tools, and Tinker's Tools), and who makes every character feel relevant and impactful no matter what type of character they're playing.

That said, most of the Mastermind and Rogue features alike are integral to the skill-based utility/support character I want to play. I'm only giving him Fighter levels at all because he picked up knife throwing from his dad's bodyguard and practiced trick shots to impress friends for drinks. He took advantage of his parents who paid his tuition for ten years without graduating, only taking classes he found easy, electives like painting, calligraphy, mapmaking, etc., and a great number of more esoteric courses regarding philosophy and historic warfare, which though he claimed was dreadfully boring he was actually quite fascinated with. Maybe a bard would better suit the concept, but I don't see him as a spellcaster and less that he's inspiring to others and more that he is naturally talented wastrel who's motivated by self preservation and can help so frequently because he has no direction in life rather than be a jack of all trades.

And this might sound like he's a real **** person to be around, and that's sort of true but not really. He's likes being around other people, and definitely wants people to like him so he tries to impress them. More selfish than altruistic, but he'd balk at anyone doing something truly evil.

[camcoyote]

Go Halfling and then take the Bountiful Luck feat. Now you can help your allies not make mistake by giving them proper supervision in combat.

I also like Inspiring Leader on this type of character.

Those are both great support feats, I'm just not sure they fit the character. I've frequently described him as self-preserving, lazy, directionless, but intellectually talented. The support he provides with Master of Tactics and Guidance comes from swift and insightful analysis and a sharp eye for detail. Fast learner, but has been coasting his whole life. That's why I figured Bard wouldn't work as well since he guides others with his technical aptitude and expertise (numerous tool proficiencies) rather than through inspiration, performance, or lore.