Next-strip predictions

[arimareiji]

Removed of own volition.

[brian 333]

Cutaway to Team Evil?

I want to see Orange Voice in the next page.

[ziproot]

Suggested format, in case the thread lasts longer than an unarticulated thought in Veldrina's head^*: Specify the strip where you think this will occur.
_{* - If it actually does, it could be fun to look back on.}

For example, in 1232 I hereby solemnly predict that we'll get one last cutaway (prior to Serini ambushing the party in 1233).

I was thinking maybe checking in on Team Evil or Sabine/IFCC.

[Mike Havran]

My prediction is that the discussion with Thor will continue until Thor starts to suggest another approach, and at this point the spell ends abruptly because Durkon gets a crossbow bolt sneak attack to the head.

[Fyraltari]

This thread has potential.

I suggest we preface our guesses with the strip number for future clarity's sake, as I can definitely see myself going back through this later on to see how accurate we were.

1232: The discussion between Durkon, Thor and Odin continues. Thor asks for clarification about the World-in-the-Rift and/or explains what he's found out about it.

[WanderingMist]

This thread has potential.

I suggest we preface our guesses with the strip number for future clarity's sake, as I can definitely see myself going back through this later on to see how accurate we were.

1132: The discussion between Durkon, Thor and Odin continues. Thor asks for clarification about the World-in-the-Rift and/or explains what he's found out about it.

Sorry, but strip 1132 will actually go this way.

[DataNinja]

It's not strictly specifics for the next strip, but I predict that Elan's important spell is going to see some use here to help the Order fight back.

[halfeye]

There won't be much fighting or action, that sort of strip comes out quicker.

[Ginasius]

When I was immersed in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire fandoms I used to make the following prediction for the next chapter or book:

"Some people are going to die."

[ByzantiumBhuka]

1233: Given the nature of this comic, the next strip will probably consist mainly of Durkon discussing his Commune with the rest of OotS, perhaps with a cutaway to Team Evil at the end. Lots of interesting things for the party to talk about; it'll be fun to see how Roy in particular reacts.

This looks like it'll be a really fun thing. Kudos on the idea, arimareiji!

[Squire Doodad]

1233: A cutaway by the end, probably.

[Fyraltari]

1233: The Order discusses things for a bit and then a cut away, but not to Xykon's group or Serini, I'm more thinking the Monster in the Dark with the bugbears or, and that's a longshot, new arrivals the the pole be it Hinjo and the Azurites or the Vector Legion or somebody else.

[Blue Dragon]

1233: The Order discusses things for a bit and then a cut away, but not to Xykon's group or Serini, I'm more thinking the Monster in the Dark with the bugbears or, and that's a longshot, new arrivals the the pole be it Hinjo and the Azurites or the Vector Legion or somebody else.

10 GP in a cutaway to somebody who didn't show up in this book yet.

[Ionathus]

1233: I think Serini's attack is about to pop off. If you count Durkon's Commune, we've basically had two cutaways from "The Order is waiting in this tunnel" already.

Storywise, they've been waiting for a while now (as evidenced by Elan sitting on the ground, Durkon having the time to Commune, etc). It's time for a good old-fashioned action sequence.

As for Serini's chances, I think she's going to do something less-predictable than take out V or Elan first. Maybe she neutralizes Roy with something clever and outside of the "sneak attack with poison" box we've seen from her already? Serini has apparently been watching events unfold -- I wouldn't be surprised if she isolated Roy as the leader and decides to take him out so the rest of the team can't strategize as effectively.

[Mike Havran]

1233 Some more discussion about their next plan of how to kill Xykon without killing Redcloak, with some more reminiscence. The action will begin in 1234.

[Ionathus]

Is it mean to think that if Serini wants to first eliminate the person with the best chance of thinking quickly to thwart her, she'll actually target Haley? Possibly Minrah for her quick thinking at the Redcloak encounter (if she saw it, not a given since she was brewing amnesia potion)... or on a different track, V by virtue of having spells that could eliminate her advantages.

I don't think it's mean at all! Haley would also be a natural choice, especially if you don't want anybody "thinking like a rogue" to undo your ambush.

I mostly picked Roy because:

1. When discussing Serini's ambush, people in other threads have seemed fixated on the idea that she'll take out the casters first. A great way to show Serini as a competent badass who thinks outside the box would be to have her not do that predictable strategy, but still have her choice succeed because she "went beyond the meta", so to speak. In past battles, The Giant seems to have intentionally avoided the "obvious" choice, if doing so makes for a better story -- like when Z neutralized Haley in his opening strike against Vaarsuvius, even though according to metagame "tiers", he should've targeted either Elan or V, one of the two spellcasters. That encounter showed how V was learning to think tactically and even admit they needed a kobold ranger's help to defeat a fellow wizard. It made the story more interesting, and I can see a similar thing happen here. Maybe she takes out the "leader" but the rest of the team has grown in competence and they don't fall apart again, like they did in DStP?
2. Since Roy's both the leader and Lawful Good, it's possible she'll get Soon Kim vibes from him and decide he's the one most likely to blow the gate, so she can't afford to let him escape even more so than the others. He's the one who blew up the previous gate, after all.

[Fyraltari]

I don't think Serini is going to attack them alone. Orange is the wildcard there, and that's assuming she doesn't have more helpers. It's not outside the realm of possibility for her to attack everybody at once.

[KorvinStarmast]

I wouldn't be surprised if she isolated Roy as the leader and decides to take him out so the rest of the team can't strategize as effectively.

A hundred soldiers ably led defeat a thousand without a head. Take out the leadership, or, as we parse it in 21st century warfare: disable the Command and Control hubs/nodes

But OoTS has a robust command structure: Haley as second in command has grown. Even though as a leader she's not as good as Roy, she's still got the brains and the leader role figured out well enough to do the old "next adventurer up" thing. Plus, she's a Rogue, and I think she'll have a few counters to whatever Serini is trying to accomplish. And she has wands.

Is it mean to think that if Serini wants to first eliminate the person with the best chance of thinking quickly to thwart her, she'll actually target Haley?

That was my gut feel.

Since Roy's both the leader and Lawful Good, it's possible she'll get Soon Kim vibes from him and decide he's the one most likely to blow the gate, so she can't afford to let him escape even more so than the others. He's the one who blew up the previous gate, after all.

That too.

On the other hand, standard adventuring party tactics is "take out the enemy casters first" and Serini was a long time adventurer ... do leopards reallly change their spost? Miko disabled V right off the bat when she took on the Order.

[Ionathus]

A hundred soldiers ably led defeat a thousand without a head. Take out the leadership, or, as we parse it in 21st century warfare: disable the Command and Control hubs/nodes

But OoTS has a robust command structure: Haley as second in command has grown. Even though as a leader she's not as good as Roy, she's still got the brains and the leader role figured out well enough to do the old "next adventurer up" thing. Plus, she's a Rogue, and I think she'll have a few counters to whatever Serini is trying to accomplish. And she has wands.
That was my gut feel.
That too.

On the other hand, standard adventuring party tactics is "take out the enemy casters first" and Serini was a long time adventurer ... do leopards reallly change their spost? Miko disabled V right off the bat when she took on the Order.

Right, that was my thought in my second post as well -- that The Order will prove more independent than she expected, and even without Roy's leadership they'll hold their own.

[Precure]

Rocks fall, everyone dies.

[brian 333]

Actually, the first target will be Durkon. See Invisibility is an important asset in a fight against a rogue, and the ability to heal and reverse all of the poison damage is a hard counter to the strategy she used on the paladins.

1. Durkon
2. Minrah
3. Elan
4. Vaarsuvius
5. Haley
6. Belkar
7. Roy

I anticipate the reveal of Orange, whose role will be to keep the melee characters distracted and everyone else unaware of the real danger until it is too late.

[Brumagris]

Actually, the first target will be Durkon. See Invisibility is an important asset in a fight against a rogue, and the ability to heal and reverse all of the poison damage is a hard counter to the strategy she used on the paladins.

1. Durkon
2. Minrah
3. Elan
4. Vaarsuvius
5. Haley
6. Belkar
7. Roy

I anticipate the reveal of Orange, whose role will be to keep the melee characters distracted and everyone else unaware of the real danger until it is too late.

So you are counting on Durkon preparing the right spells? that is a LOT of speculation down there :D

[Ionathus]

You have good points about Serini not being likely to try to out-munchkin the Order. Personally I hadn't even thought about it in those terms, aside from "V is the one best equipped to yank the rug out from under her biggest advantages." Serini has to win without giving them a fair chance, and I don't think she can if the Order has any meaningful way to target her. (That and I keep thinking back to the fight against Durkula, where they had a great plan but the enemy's spell effects quickly yanked their biggest strength out from under them. It took a Durkon ex machina to avoid TPK.)

If it helps explain why I say my opinion may be mean: Imo, Roy isn't much of an immediate loss tactically.

Spoiler: collapsed for space

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He's great at inspiring others to keep following, but in the middle of a fight... historically, I wouldn't bet against the weight of his bad ideas to be comparable to the weight of his good ideas. Or even to outweigh them. And he's good at battering things into submission, but only the ones that give him the courtesy of a fair fight.

Although tbh, maybe I'm just still aghast at the quick transition from "We should leave the defenses of the gate alone, we can't afford to take chances anymore" to "Yeah, let's jump out of the portal and attack Team Evil, because if we win then yay".

Because if they lose (and there seems to be a very significant chance), they just gave away the biggest card Serini has to play: Keeping Team Evil spinning their wheels fighting monsters (under the premise that they just have to pick the right door), playing a shell game. Replace "shell" below, with "door".
A con man doesn't choose to play the shell game with you if there is any possibility of him actually losing.
The con isn't in getting you to pick the wrong shell. The con is in getting you to accept that the basic premise of the game is still being followed.
The con is in getting you to pick a shell at all.

But then again... looking back at that comic, Roy seizes on the idea she tossed out and turns it into a plan. But Haley's the one who tossed it out, despite her being the one who explained shell games to Roy and Hinjo. It's just one incident and usually she's a lot smarter, but it still diminishes her credibility as the only one who can out-rogue a rogue.

I'd argue that Roy's biggest contribution is keeping his head screwed on mid-fight, which is a big asset if an Epic-level rogue is trying to ambush and disorient you. Even if his (tactically) good ideas don't outweigh his bad ones (and I'm genuinely curious what examples of bad tactics you think he's displayed in the past 3 arcs, post-War & XPs), it's his ability to rally the team and keep them focused that would count the most. It would also be a nice payoff for the chaos his death threw the party into during DStP!

As for their decision to attack Team Evil right now, I also don't agree it's the best choice but I understand the logic. If Team Evil has already burnt not-insignificant resources on a door or two, plus an inconclusive combat with Durkon & Minrah, now might be a good time to strike while the iron's hot. Their cover is already blown thanks to Durkon, so now TE will be actively looking for anything strange and is that much more likely to figure out the portal trap. Plus, Redcloak might have been optimizing his spells for monster combat, rather than combat with a team of adventurers. If they don't attack now, they lose that advantage.

And, depending on how self-aware you think the characters are...I've been a PC in enough sessions that started with "let's strategize and optimize this ambush for 3 hours before attacking at the perfect moment" and ended with "wow we overthought that; if we'd just planned a little bit, then rushed in and hit hard-and-fast, it would've been much easier."

[halfeye]

1233 will be another talky/exposition comic.

[WanderingMist]

I don't have a lot of time this morning to go through and compile the specifics that you deserve (because that's a fair implied question), but generally speaking I think you touched on one big element already: No battle plan long survives first contact with the enemy. And Roy doesn't often think on his feet, or in terms of "If I were my opponent, what could I do to screw us over?".

He leans more toward "Let's do something that caters to our strengths", which is generally valuable... but others have their own. Even when he breaks character in this regard, he still doesn't tend to shift gears when his opponent shifts gears -- e.g. he does Mind Blank against the vampires, he doesn't plan for the semi-predictable (panel 1) or shift gears until he's half-dead. If not for the Durkon ex machina, it would have been TPK.

The flip side of that is that it can fairly be described as keeping your head screwed on straight, which is a necessity against shock and indecision per se. Truly there are times when that's invaluable, and what I should have done a lot better job of expressing is that I don't think Roy's leadership is an immediate loss mid-fight against Serini.

Because against someone whose whole character build enables using your expectations against you, particularly when you don't know they're coming...

Spoiler: illustration

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it sorta reminds me of a manga where one character pokes gentle fun at another character's awesome lightning-fast technique (Rakan and Negi in Negima). Sure, it lets him be super-effective against most opponents by taking the initiative for what he plans to do. But it also locks him into that course of action (for instance, running from point A to point B). If someone figures it out and can react, it's like calling them up and saying "Hi, I'm going to be here at point B in 0.1 seconds. Stick your fist out, and I'll run into it." In the same way, if Serini knows what they're planning and how they'll probably react (on her own home turf, no less), all she has to do is is what she specializes in: "Hit 'em where they ain't", the famous philosophy of another short person. (^_~)

Also: I'd agree wrt the chaos following Roy's death -- but they did okay in the immediate aftermath, the big problem was their long-term loss of cohesion without someone to keep them focused on a common goal.

Spoiler:

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Question: How long has it been since you read Negima? Remember that it didn't matter that the opponent knew where Negi would be, the entire point was distracting Rakan from the fact that Negi was drawing a monstrously large spell circle mid-fight.

1233: Blackwing is assassinated.

[Metastachydium]

1233: Roy finally begins to show signs of radiation poisoning.

[b_jonas]

The next strip, #1233, will return to Serini. She'll reveal that she's the quasi-immortal shapeshifter daughter of the Snarl, who has appeared in the comic under various other guises, including Redcloak's Niece, the Monster in the Dark, Trigak, and Shoulder Pad Guy. She will thus fulfill Haley's and Belkar's prediction that Trigak will be a recurring villain, even if her chimera body got destroyed.

[Ionathus]

1234: This "I think Redcloak is right" conversation continues. Either they loop in the other party members, or Roy & Durkon keep debating it and trying to figure out how they can approach the situation and possibly get through to Redcloak.

Roy's statements to Julia back on the ship come to mind: he expressed doubt about putting Durkon's mission ahead of stopping The Plan right away...I wonder if this will change that?

[Riftwolf]

Not sure if it'll be next page, but I'm guessing the next diplomatic target will be Oona.

[Metastachydium]

Not sure if it'll be next page, but I'm guessing the next diplomatic target will be Oona.

Strip no. 1234:
Xykon, Redcloak and Oona: [Emerge from the tunnel.]
Haley: [Disarms trap.]
Roy: [Polite & pleasant.] Would you, gentlemen, excuse us for a second? We would love to have a brief discussion with Ms. Oona here, mainly about the possibility of her usurping [gestures towards Redcloak] your position, Sir.