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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Yeah I am excited to see a Batman movie that is like Batman Begins but also unlike every Batman since 2005. I also am excited to see a new character without the mythos of the movie theater / opera, and the pearl necklace, and so on.
    Isn't this more Damien Wayne's backstory than Bruce?
    Remember Tonya Al'Ghul had a kid with Bruce in the comics. Raz raised him to be an assassin and possibly join his League of Assassins if he grew up.
    But the wound up being raised by Batman due to an attack.

    But regardless this trailer looks good and I am excited to see it.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Tonya Al'Ghul
    Is that Ras's third daughter who works in the Orange Julius at the mall? the one with the faded blue jean puffy jacket and the hairsprayed hair a foot above her head?

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowglass View Post
    Is that Ras's third daughter who works in the Orange Julius at the mall? the one with the faded blue jean puffy jacket and the hairsprayed hair a foot above her head?
    I meant Tonya is Nyssa truename.
    She changed her name because she didn't want to have same starting letter as Talia.

    Joking but forgot Talia's name

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Honestly, Shang-Chi's story is a lot like Gamora's from the MCU. If you replace Thanos with a Ra's al-Ghul-ish ancient Chinese sorcerer dude, you get the general idea.

    His personality is quite different than Gamora's, but the core conflict isn't that much.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Which character do you guys think will be featured in the post credits scene?
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by SunsetWaraxe View Post
    Which character do you guys think will be featured in the post credits scene?
    Not Wolverine.

    I figure that if Wolverine is gonna be set up in an MCU property prior to an announcement it's probably gonna be in an episode of Falcon and Winter soldier, since... We've seen Wolverine's favorite bar in an episode of Falcon and Winter Soldier.

    Beyond that, I honestly can't say.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by SunsetWaraxe View Post
    Which character do you guys think will be featured in the post credits scene?
    Iron Fist?
    Maybe the Marvel Film Iron Fist will be able to do actual martial arts and look the part (Tv version was not good at martial arts).

    I'd love movie one since TV show was canceled.
    Maybe he needs help with something.

    Tying it into Iron Fist 2023?

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    I doubt it would be Iron fist, unless they were reviving the Netflix stuff on Disney Plus.

    The Netflix stuff doesn't get referenced but it is part of the same universe as the MCU.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Both Blade and Moon Knight seem like reasonable possibilities. We know those characters are coming, and they're around Shang Chi's power level and reasonably similar in theme.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Both Blade and Moon Knight seem like reasonable possibilities. We know those characters are coming, and they're around Shang Chi's power level and reasonably similar in theme.
    What about Black Knight?
    Dude inherits a castle after a death. He finds the Ebony Blade and unlocks it after passing a test. He infiltrates a bad guy group to take them down. It is a sword that can cut through stuff and deflect magic. Also can be summoned by will once chosen by it. Can't succumb to death while wielding it. Also, when powered up fully it could create armor around the wielder.

    It slowly corrupts you to be more violent though (evil acts committed by the wielder taint the blade, even minor ones like lying).

    Sure, it does references magic, but it mostly is just defensive magic.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    What about Black Knight?
    Dude inherits a castle after a death. He finds the Ebony Blade and unlocks it after passing a test. He infiltrates a bad guy group to take them down. It is a sword that can cut through stuff and deflect magic. Also can be summoned by will once chosen by it. Can't succumb to death while wielding it. Also, when powered up fully it could create armor around the wielder.

    It slowly corrupts you to be more violent though (evil acts committed by the wielder taint the blade, even minor ones like lying).

    Sure, it does references magic, but it mostly is just defensive magic.
    Black Knight is in Eternals, which was supposed to have already released back in 2020. Post-credit scenes have generally been used to tease new characters, so it seems less likely that a character slated to appear previously would show up in one.
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    It slowly corrupts you to be more violent though (evil acts committed by the wielder taint the blade, even minor ones like lying).
    Actually, that's a lie.

    Under the current canon, Merlin lied his ass off when he first gave the Ebony Blade to Sir Percy. Someone pure of heart can't use the sword's powers at all, it can only be used by someone with evil in their heart, and Sir Percy and his descendants, including Dane Witman, are just kind of prone to violence and homicide. Merlin just claimed that they were pure of heart to get them to go along with it.

    The sword don't do **** but give them an excuse.

    When Dane finds out, he has a brief panic attack but ultimately accepts that there's legitimate malice in him and it's not the sword doing it and decides that he's going to use the evil in him as a whetstone to sharpen the good.

    Cue accessing the 'Full Power' of the Ebony Blade.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    What about Black Knight?.
    As Mechalich already mentioned Black Knight is going to be in The Eternals played by Jon Snow actor Kit Harington.

    Likewise Richard Madden the actor who played Robb Stark, the King of the North / the Young Wolf is likely the main protagonist in The Eternals movie since Richard is playing the character Ikaris who usually is the POV character in the comics. Then again the MCU may go with Angelina Jolie as she is playing the character Thena.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Actually, that's a lie.

    Under the current canon, Merlin lied his ass off when he first gave the Ebony Blade to Sir Percy. Someone pure of heart can't use the sword's powers at all, it can only be used by someone with evil in their heart, and Sir Percy and his descendants, including Dane Witman, are just kind of prone to violence and homicide. Merlin just claimed that they were pure of heart to get them to go along with it.

    The sword don't do **** but give them an excuse.

    When Dane finds out, he has a brief panic attack but ultimately accepts that there's legitimate malice in him and it's not the sword doing it and decides that he's going to use the evil in him as a whetstone to sharpen the good.

    Cue accessing the 'Full Power' of the Ebony Blade.
    Every time you tell us about a retcon from the last few years, it makes me glad I don't spend money on Comics anymore. They all sound terrible.

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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Black Knight is in Eternals, which was supposed to have already released back in 2020. Post-credit scenes have generally been used to tease new characters, so it seems less likely that a character slated to appear previously would show up in one.
    As it stands now though, Shang Chi (September) is coming out before Eternals (November), so it's still a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowglass View Post
    Every time you tell us about a retcon from the last few years, it makes me glad I don't spend money on Comics anymore. They all sound terrible.
    This, and it also makes me glad that the MCU is able to leverage what works from the comics but not afraid to streamline the stuff that is too goofy or convoluted.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowglass View Post
    Every time you tell us about a retcon from the last few years, it makes me glad I don't spend money on Comics anymore. They all sound terrible.
    I mean, "struggling with my own dark impulses" is usually a much better conflict than "the sword makes me evil."

    Dane could just... Not use the sword. He has other weapons, magical and technological, that are on the same level the sword was prior to the current retcon.

    He literally has no reason whatsoever to use a sword that drives him to commit violence. He has equal or better options. It's a dumb conflict that's easily solved.

    There have in fact been several times where he's gone extended periods with not using the sword.

    But "the sword doesn't make you evil, it at most only draws out what's already there" eliminates that issue. It reframes the narrative from "man versus outside force" to "man versus his own nature." He's no longer doing a stupid by using the sword.

    Now the sword becomes a tool, allowing him to turn his own darker nature towards positive ends.

    It's a better narrative.
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    As it stands now though, Shang Chi (September) is coming out before Eternals (November), so it's still a possibility.



    This, and it also makes me glad that the MCU is able to leverage what works from the comics but not afraid to streamline the stuff that is too goofy or convoluted.
    Yeah its much better to just create the character at whatever point in their insane life history you want and not have to justify the path that led there. Rogue didnt have to have a crazy backstory about the time she drained ms marvel into a coma, permanently absorbing her powers and her mind (which is sealed away except for when its not) etc. We didnt need to cover the time when storm lost her powers and decided to grow a mohawk but then got her powers back because whatever. Just slap the characters down with the power and personality set you want them to have, maybe include a short blurb for a backstory and call it a day.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah its much better to just create the character at whatever point in their insane life history you want and not have to justify the path that led there. Rogue didnt have to have a crazy backstory about the time she drained ms marvel into a coma, permanently absorbing her powers and her mind (which is sealed away except for when its not) etc. We didnt need to cover the time when storm lost her powers and decided to grow a mohawk but then got her powers back because whatever. Just slap the characters down with the power and personality set you want them to have, maybe include a short blurb for a backstory and call it a day.
    Agreed. we don't need full convoluted versions, we just need the basic idea of who and what the superhero is and they clearly work fine, because telling the current story is more important than the backstory.

    I don't think anyone could handle adapting the full actual history of a superhero. just the history of superman himself would practically be its own series, and it'd have to be animated because thats the only way your showing all of the weird stuff he's done even if your narrowing it down to the highlight reel of his 80-year run. just find all his most iconic or most well known stories throughout the various ages and put them back to back, from golden age to modern age. silver age would be the second season and would be the comedic lighter one.
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah its much better to just create the character at whatever point in their insane life history you want and not have to justify the path that led there. Rogue didnt have to have a crazy backstory about the time she drained ms marvel into a coma, permanently absorbing her powers and her mind (which is sealed away except for when its not) etc. We didnt need to cover the time when storm lost her powers and decided to grow a mohawk but then got her powers back because whatever. Just slap the characters down with the power and personality set you want them to have, maybe include a short blurb for a backstory and call it a day.
    It is not a crazy backstory if you read the comics is sequential order with our time, instead of being a young person who reads the comics out of order years later for the comics came before . Here is a quick summary, weaving the stories of several characters together and explaining what is happening behind the scenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by So to recap

    1968 Carol Danvers created, 1969 She is Injured, 1977 Carol has superpowers and her own book, 1978 Carol gets her arch-rival with Mystique, 1981 Rogue daughter of Mystique tries to kill Carol and nearly succeeds, 1982 Carol goes to Professor X for she has no memories and is a normal human again, she gain news superpowers due to Aliens. 1983 Rogue shows up and Prof X shows Carol the door.
    Long stuff with more behind the scenes.
    • 1968 Carol Danvers is created as an Air Force Army Captain in Captain Marvel issue 1. This is not Carol's book, she is a side character. The main character at the time is Mar-Vell and Rick Jones. You see recently Marvell obtained the trademark Captain Marvel merely by publishing a comic with that name for Fawcett Comics stop publishing Captain Marvel (Shazam) stories for 10+ years. Marvel did not own the character Shazam but there is a mix match with trademarks and copyrights. Copyrights last longer for several decades. Trademarks aka brands and logos last only 10 years and they are a use it or lose it and another company can snipe the trademark if you stop using it. Well Mar-Vell and Rick Jones was a mixture of Superman and Shazam, on purpose, where Rick Jones use the tech bands Nega-Bands and when he uses these bracelets Mar-Vell like Shazam manifests and replaces him. Except these are two different people, yadda, yadda, yadda. (Note Mar-Vell was specifically chosen to sound like Kal-El but also to invoke the Marvel Comics brand.)
    • 1969 Carol Danvers is in several comics of Captain Marvel as a non powered person, who gets injured in an explosion in Captain Marvel issue 18. This will be the future of her powers when she gets her own book 8 years later but those powers did not kick in instantly
    • 1975 Dave Cockrum famous artist who worked for DC and Marvel, returns to Marvel and his art designs were used to create the 2nd team of X-Men, the "Giant Size X-Men" which he drew. Dave is the creator of Storm, Colossus, and Nightcrawler, plus many other characters in Marvel. Before working at Marvel he drew the Legion of Superheroes and he later does a homage of his previous work for the Shi'ar Imperial Guard is based off this DC team of future superheroes. This stuff will be relevant later. Also Chris Claremont (future main writer of the X-Men for 16 years) was an intern at Marvel during Giant Size X-Men but 1 issues later he is writting the main X-Men book though he has some assistance from Giant Size Writer Len Wein for 2 issues.
    • 1977 Ms Marvel is launched and with Issue 2 Chris Claremont takes over. While at the Marvel office Chris Claremont pulls a Shuri and did WHAT ARE THOSE when Chris saw some absent minded doodles of Dave's that were Mystique and other things. Mystique at the time was just a character design no thought was put into her backstory when Chris first sawed her and thus Dave and Chris collaborated and
    • 1978 Mystique debuts in Ms Marvel issue 16 debuts to be Carol Danver's new big bad, a big bad from the shadows.
    • 1979 Ms Marvel is canceled with issue 23. Rogue was going to show up with issue 25 but this did not happened at the time. Marvel always saves their characters so Ms. Marvel appears in some Avengers issues.
    • 1981 Chris Claremont uses the Ms Marvel issue 25 plotline of Rogue taking Carol's powers in the Avengers yearly issue called the 10th Annual Avengers.
    • 1981 Chris Claremont brings over Carol Danvers character in his Uncanny X-Men issues. She first appears in UXM150 the issue where Magneto has his turn and he stops trying to destroy Humans after he almost kills Kitty Pryde. (He notices Kitty Pryde is Jewish and Magneto is a concentration camp survivor per this issue though they did not reveal he was Jewish till years later.) Note Carol Danvers goes to Professor X for Carol has lost her memories and powers after Rogue took them in the 10th Annual Avengers issue.
    • 1982 Rogue appears in some Dazzler stand alone issues as an antagonist for Dazzler. Only later would Chris Claremont fold Dazzler into the X-Men. In UXM158 Carol is going to help the X-Men by sneaking them into the pentagon so they can delete computer records about the secret identities of mutants. Mystique, Rogue and the Brotherhood show up and the two teams collide.
    • 1982 While in Space the X-Men were doing space things and "The Brood" arc happened with The Brood being Alien the Movie proxies at the time. During this time Carol Danvers gets new superpowers and becomes Binary.
    • 1983 Rogue shows up at Professor's X doorstop in UXM171 (leaving Mystique in UXM170 where she takes the bus.) Rogue says she is having memory problems ever since she absorbed half of Carol almost 2 years later. Carol is PISSED and punches Rogue with her new superpowers. Carol then gives Professor X an Ultimatum. Choose me who is an X-Men, who has saved your life and is a member of your team, or choose the Terrorist Girl who has literally tried to murder your team. Professor X does Carol a dirty and Carol flies off extremely angry for she was betrayed. None of the X-Men trust the Terrorist Girl but now it is Wolverine Wedding time. Logan is going to marry a woman Mariko Yashida but Mariko is the sister of the crime lord Silver Samurai. Stuff happen and Rogue saves Mariko's life by taking an attack meant for her is dying but survives due to Logan letting Rogue touch him and borrow his healing powers. Rogue is now a trusted member of the X-Men.


    Yes this is lots of words but it explains what happened and as you can see it naturally flows. Rogue is a Captain Marvel antagonist, a nobody who later becomes more popular than Captain Marvel

    Like I said earlier in a previous post in this thread with the Betsy Braddock character, Chris Claremont likes to "save" women characters he finds interesting especially ones he created earlier, CC adores his dames. To demostrate this, by 1988 Chris Claremont has created a Quintet of Claremont Dames with having Storm, Rogue, Betsy Braddock, Dazzler, and Maddie Pryor, the 5 knights of Claremont all stuck in the Australian Outback with some boys to serve these ladies.

    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by So to recap

    1968 Carol Danvers created, 1969 She is Injured, 1977 Carol has superpowers and her own book, 1978 Carol gets her arch-rival with Mystique, 1981 Rogue daughter of Mystique tries to kill Carol and nearly succeeds, 1982 Carol goes to Professor X for she has no memories and is a normal human again, she gain news superpowers due to Aliens. 1983 Rogue shows up and Prof X shows Carol the door.
    The MCU can do whatever it wants but this is already a mostly streamlined story. Just have The Brotherhood be the Antagonists for a Captain Marvel movie and at the end of the movie Carol is depowered and the mutant terrorist shows up at the house of some bald man as a post credit scene.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-04-23 at 06:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    I am aware you can get a decent synopsis on most characters for where they are and how they got there, I was more pointing out that in a movie you dont have to. For example, if instead of child rogue we got bombshell beauty from the popular xmen cartoon rogue, unless the story involved captain marvel in some way, we as viewers dont need to know all that stuff because its not important to the story. Instead they can just go, "Here is rogue, she is a flying brick that can drain people of their powers and memories." It wasnt even mentioned in the cartoon until they decided to focus on that for a few episodes where rogue is going nuts and has to figure out why. Suddenly we get her backstory more or less as you stated it. Until then, it wasnt important to mention.
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    I think it's more than a little likely that the Rogue draining Carol Danvers' powers is going to be in the MCU, for three reasons.

    1. Captain Marvel is pretty damn powerful and you can leverage that story-line into making her less so for future movies.

    2. The "superhero has to deal with power-loss" is an old chestnut at this point.

    3. It lets the MCU have 90's X-Men Rogue that everyone loves rather than Fox X-Men Rogue who is more of a plot tool than Superhero.

    Besides, it wasn't a bad story. She got to go on to have space adventures with writer Chris Claremont, who was the only writer that liked her as a character at the time, giving her more definition for her character who was written rather inconsistently hitherto, and also her sparkly new Binary form which is kind of cool in a Super Saiyan-y way. This was also when she met and befriended Jessica Drew - Spider-Woman - who at this point is a now pretty constant feature in Carol's life in the comics as her best friend.

    Also Storm with a mohawk is awesome.
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I am aware you can get a decent synopsis on most characters for where they are and how they got there, I was more pointing out that in a movie you dont have to. For example, if instead of child rogue we got bombshell beauty from the popular xmen cartoon rogue, unless the story involved captain marvel in some way, we as viewers dont need to know all that stuff because its not important to the story. Instead they can just go, "Here is rogue, she is a flying brick that can drain people of their powers and memories." It wasnt even mentioned in the cartoon until they decided to focus on that for a few episodes where rogue is going nuts and has to figure out why. Suddenly we get her backstory more or less as you stated it. Until then, it wasnt important to mention.
    I am not disagreeing in fact I am agreeing but trying to signal my love for two different mediums

    Comics there will always be too much with Marvel and DC. There is like 6000+ X-Men comics and literally like 6x that amount for the greater Marvel industry with 616 and all the other AUs.

    Since the canon is so large it forces no one to be an authority of the manner and every story can be someone’s first time. The world existed prior to any authority, much like the world existed prior to your Daddy and Momma, and it existed prior to your Grandparents, so on and so on before the existence of writing. The world merely exists just like people exist. This is either alienating or liberating.

    It allows you to evoke Epic Poetry for every story starts In Median Res, in the middle of things. For example The Iliad is a self contained story that starts in Year 10 of the War, Achilles loses his soul mate, stuff happens, Achilles gets his revenge.

    And the end of The Iliad is not the death of Achilles or the end of the war but instead Achilles meeting the King of Troy, who literally leaves the protection of the city walls, and he gets on his knees and begs for the body of his son, Achilles former enemy who stole the soulmate of Achilles in War. The two man weep and Achilles allows this mercy when he has filled so many other emotions through the story, and that is the end of it. It started in the middle of things and then it ended when the story ended.

    Sure there are other Trojan War epics. 7 additional epics we call the epic cycle that were important to the Greeks. Several of them we lost to time for people may have written them down and we have references to them, but now we all have fragments. Like tears / comics in the rain, lost to memory and experience.

    I love how Baroque comics are with the over the top detail, so much that one can not retain it all and thus the emotional through line is now the story.

    —————

    The MCU movies and now tv shows are a different thing. They are all origin stories and so on, where one story continues the other. There is only about 50 hours of MCU movies prior to this Disney Plus thing (not counting agents of shield, Netflix marvel, and so on.) Everything is streamlined where everyone can have the same type of experience even if that is now changing. I was born in the mid 80s and thus I was in my twenties when 2008 Iron Man came out, but now we have MCU fans who were not even born when that movie came out and other people have missed most of those movies.

    My point is mediums change and have different strengths, it is okay, in fact it is exquisite 👌
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
    3. It lets the MCU have 90's X-Men Rogue that everyone loves….
    What defines 90s X-Men Rogue?

    I’m familar with Rogue from X-Men #182 or thereabouts, but quit reading around 1990, so not sure what characterizes Rogue in the 90s.

    Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
    Also Storm with a mohawk is awesome.
    Eh. Not really a fan of Punk Storm.

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    What defines 90s X-Men Rogue?

    I’m familar with Rogue from X-Men #182 or thereabouts, but quit reading around 1990, so not sure what characterizes Rogue in the 90s.
    Gambit. When Gambit was introduced in 1990, and Christopher Claremont left the X-Men books 18 months later the style of Rogue stories shifted. It was now a romantic comedy / melodrama with a women protagonist where she has agency and was the PoV and she was balancing multiple desires, simultaneously with a world that did not want to give what she wanted or needed and thus there was tension and change where human action unlocked potential that was not there before, but also human action creates unforeseen messes for life is not a song as someone would tell 11 year old Sansa Stark.

    It is good stuff, not everyone will like it, but there is enough reversals with Rogue dating Remy, dumping his ass due to spoilers for a 1990s big reversal, her dating other people, and so on till they did finally get married 28 years later. Rogue has agency and is in control of her life and it is not just about a man but her story does involve intimacy for it is what she craves most in the world and her power prevents that.

    There is a CEREBRO X-Men podcast I am about to recommend. It started in 2020 and 30+ episodes so far. Like 10 or so with current and past X-Men Writers and editors.

    Each episode is 2 or 3 hours and the host Connor Goldsmith does a character file of 15ish minutes (sometimes longer when there are lots of appearances) explaining in sequential order the stories and the retcons as they unfold, as the writers writes them. Followed by 2 hours of the Guest talking with the host what is their introduction to X-Men, what does the character mean to them (the guest picks the character), and so on.

    Well Cass Morris picked Rogue / Anna Marie, and the guest Cass explains how the character works from a craft perspective since Cass Morris is a fantasy writer herself.

    Rogue for some female readers is a wish fulfillment character, Rogue struggles and has unfulfilled desires but she also has skills and powers that allows her to do some things (some not all) female readers wish they can do. Rogue can be strong, tough, face no consequences, flirt, yet her power weakness makes her relatable for she does not get what she wants and she has to work around that.

    https://anchor.fm/cerebrocast/episod...-Morris-eoc5df

    —————

    I prefer 80s Rogue and mid 00s Mike Carey’s Rogue* but the 90s and other era Rogue is good.

    *Mike Carey’s Rogue is her leading a team of misfits that she picked to be an alternative X-Men separate from the main team. It is very successful and then leads to disaster that was kind of preordained due to an X-Men event involving Baby Hope Summers, a messiah macguffins mutant everyone wants. After this event Carey still wrote Rogue but it was more a stand alone book. With Rogue working on her Traumas followed by her getting control of her powers temporarily* (a thing that others writers reversed, but since 2018 Rogue has regain control of her powers another time. She has two different mental blocks) and Rogue teaching other mutants. It is good stuff.

    In 2018 Rogue got married afterwards her and Gambit have a 12 issue miniseries with 2 arcs and then Rogue works with Betsy on Excalibur (2019 till now) where Rogue is a mini character but supporting friend while Betsy deals with her own trauma. Just announced but not launching till June 2021 Rogue is joining the new X-Men team as one of the main 7 or 8 members, while Gambit appears to still be doing Excalibur stuff.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-04-23 at 10:40 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    What defines 90s X-Men Rogue?

    I’m familar with Rogue from X-Men #182 or thereabouts, but quit reading around 1990, so not sure what characterizes Rogue in the 90s.
    Mostly what Ramza stated, but put simply it's the one that's in the 90's cartoon. Strong, confident, sassy, full of adorable American Southern aphorism, and like everyone ever on Claremont's X-Men also emotionally vulnerable during the melodramatic bits.

    The relationship with Gambit is the biggest charm point though, as it's between two very likeable and flirtatious characters with some lovely back-and-forth dialogue. There's an ongoing question as to how serious the underlying romantic feelings are for one another given Rogue's powers creating a literal physical distance between them and her traumatic personal history creating an emotional barrier, while Gambit's tendency to be a flippant Casanova can obfuscate the sincerity of his feelings.

    Also, with Rogue being who she is she's very much in charge of her sexuality in a way that's not... BDSM-y as Claremont tended to go. Which in turn made Gambit more appealing in his own way.

    Those characters and their interactions in the cartoon were in part why X-Men developed a larger following among girls and young women. There's a lot of nostalgia there, and the Fox movies tried to tap into it a bit with Shawn Ashmore's Iceman but the characters weren't the same and those movies never had time to develop much outside of the main three-or-four characters.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    For the record, in the comics, Rogue and Gambit are currently married and her powers are currently 100% under her control.

    I can't say when they got married because it's a spoiler for the comic in question, but Mr. and Ms. X is basically about their honeymoon and after she got her powers under control in an early issue of the current volume of Excalibur they talked about having kids.

    Rogue isn't sure if she's ever going to want them. Gambit is interested but is deferring to Rogue's judgment.

    They're freaking adorable.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2021-04-23 at 10:35 PM.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    One more bit of trivia to echo how adorable Rater202 says Gambit and Rogue is.

    Stuff happens and Mystique gave Gambit 3 cats about 8 years ago and they are cute, so this is 5 years prior to the Wedding. Well that cats are cute!

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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Mr. And Mrs. X is also the introduction of Xandra Nerumi, daughter of Charles Xavier and Liliandra Nerumi.

    Despite appearing to be a preteen and technically being even younger than that, she is the single most reasonable ruler the Shi'Ar empire has ever had and is undertaking the long arduous process of making it not a dystopian intergalactic hellhole.

    Between that, Broo becoming the Brood King, Hulkling and Wiccan taking over and reforming the Kree and Skrull Empires(merged together into the Kree-Skrull Alliance,) and most recently Venom killing and usurping Knull as the King in Black(the God of the Symbiotes and core of their hivemind) outer space in the Marvel Universe is shaping up to be a lot less sucky place than it's been for a long time.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Between that, Broo becoming the Brood King, Hulkling and Wiccan taking over and reforming the Kree and Skrull Empires(merged together into the Kree-Skrull Alliance,) and most recently Venom killing and usurping Knull as the King in Black(the God of the Symbiotes and core of their hivemind) outer space in the Marvel Universe is shaping up to be a lot less sucky place than it's been for a long time.
    Ewing looks at this and laughs. I haven't read his most recent arc that started this month and who knows long that will last

    Small correction. To my understanding the Kree split after their homeworld was destroyed and now there is Kree that is part of the Alliance (Kree+Skrull run by Teddy son of MarVell and the former Skrull princess), and a new faction called The Utopian Kree*, which is run by a new AI which is different than the old Kree Supreme Intelligence but incorporates some of the old Supreme Intelligence. The Utopian Kree has some of its set up due to Marvel Boy which is another Young Avenger from Vol 2 and before that was a Grant Morrison creation.

    *Utopian Kree is the new name since they no longer consider themselves the Kree Empire for the Empire splintered.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-04-23 at 11:13 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Shang Chi and the Very Long Subtitle About Obscure Marvel Lore

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Mr. And Mrs. X is also the introduction of Xandra Nerumi, daughter of Charles Xavier and Liliandra Nerumi.

    Despite appearing to be a preteen and technically being even younger than that, she is the single most reasonable ruler the Shi'Ar empire has ever had and is undertaking the long arduous process of making it not a dystopian intergalactic hellhole.

    Between that, Broo becoming the Brood King, Hulkling and Wiccan taking over and reforming the Kree and Skrull Empires(merged together into the Kree-Skrull Alliance,) and most recently Venom killing and usurping Knull as the King in Black(the God of the Symbiotes and core of their hivemind) outer space in the Marvel Universe is shaping up to be a lot less sucky place than it's been for a long time.
    Eh. Its comic books, we'll see how long it lasts.

    also whats with Marvel and giving incredible power to pre-teen children? first that reality warping son of Reed Richards and Susan Storm, then some child bonding with a symbiote, now a child emperor. are they just trying to live up to their inheritance of the marvel name from Billy Batson?
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