College of Spirits?

[Blueiji]

Hey folks! Old hat at D&D here, but quite new to this edition. I was recently invited to a group gearing up for a new campaign, and I've been eyeing the possibility of playing a Bard. Browsing their sub-classes I found College of Spirits, and immediately fell in love.

That said, I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into. The College of Spirits primary ability seems VERY bad (on account of requiring multiple actions to set-up and deploy, having semi-random effects, not synergizing with the rest of the Bard kit, and using up charges of Inspiration). Beyond that, their other abilities all feel pretty subpar as well (barring Spirit Session, which seems dope).

Given this, I have two questions:

• Am I correct in my understanding that the College of Spirits is one of the lower-power Bard sub-classes?
• If I'm correct in this regard, are there any particular builds/optimization tricks I could employ to make a College of Spirits build work better?

To be clear, I'm mainly attracted to College of Spirits for the lore/vibe, so even if its kinda bad I'll still play it. I'm mainly coming here in order to mitigate some of that badness, if possible.

Lastly, I should note that my GM has already approved the College of Spirits, so there's no issue of legality.

[Dork_Forge]

Giving it a quick reread I'd say no, it isn't really weak at all:

-Guidance is always nice

-The tales thing varies a lot, but they don't seem that bad and unless I'm reading this incorrectly, there's no limit on how long you can hold a tale in your mind? So you can roll one up the beginning of the day and walk into combat with it, or reroll using up any left over inspiration to get a more favourable tale before a short rest (once you get font of inspiration)

-The added damage and healing is very nice as long as your DM lets it work with Vicious Mockery and Healing Word (which normally wouldn't be able to be cast through a focus).

[swamp_slug]

I'm not sure on how powerful the College of Spirits is as bards aren't my thing. I will note however, that the subclass is currently UA and is due to be updated on May 18th when Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is published.

You say your DM has given approval for you to use the subclass. If you haven't already, you may want to check that they are OK with you upgrading once the subclass is published, or whether they expect you to continue using the UA rules.

[elyktsorb]

It looks pretty alright to be honest, the tales effects, while random, are all GOOD, so it's always something worth using at the very least.

I honestly wager this subclass is going to get crippled in some way when it gets officially released.

[MrStabby]

Hey folks! Old hat at D&D here, but quite new to this edition. I was recently invited to a group gearing up for a new campaign, and I've been eyeing the possibility of playing a Bard. Browsing their sub-classes I found College of Spirits, and immediately fell in love.

That said, I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into. The College of Spirits primary ability seems VERY bad (on account of requiring multiple actions to set-up and deploy, having semi-random effects, not synergizing with the rest of the Bard kit, and using up charges of Inspiration). Beyond that, their other abilities all feel pretty subpar as well (barring Spirit Session, which seems dope).

Given this, I have two questions:

• Am I correct in my understanding that the College of Spirits is one of the lower-power Bard sub-classes?
• If I'm correct in this regard, are there any particular builds/optimization tricks I could employ to make a College of Spirits build work better?

To be clear, I'm mainly attracted to College of Spirits for the lore/vibe, so even if its kinda bad I'll still play it. I'm mainly coming here in order to mitigate some of that badness, if possible.

Lastly, I should note that my GM has already approved the College of Spirits, so there's no issue of legality.

Its decent. It has some... issues.

Spiritual focus is cool, but rubbish. D6 doesn't feel like much and the Bard spells that actually use a focus and do healing or damage are so narrow that it is almost entirely irrelevant. And it specifies Bard spells, so a dip into another class won't work (but race/backgrounds that add spells to the bard list will).

Tales from beyond is cool and useful but probably not good enough to justify the randomness most of the time. Brom a fun perspective I liked it, as it always seemed worth throwing one (or more) out in tough combats to see what I would get. It was particularly good at helping the bard feel different to other bards.

Spirit session is another Very Very cool ability that isn't actually as good as it looks. I would compare with something like Lore bard's additional magical secrets. If there is something you really want in levels 1 to 3 you could pick it up with lore bard and have a spell known to spare by going lore bard. It is not so helpful if what you want isn't a necromancy or divination spell. What it does offer is scaling and the ability to change - but still not at a full caster level. So imagine if a good necromancy spell were to be released, you could get it, but your cool thematic spell perfect for your character would still come online later for you than the wizard/cleric/whatever.

The good necromancy spells like clone/magic jar, that you would want to be able to swap in and out, are beyond the level of the spell. The divination magics you might want can probably be better provided by Ritual Caster feat (if playing with feats).


I love this subclass - it is so flavourful and I love the style of its abilities but in terms of power level it is pretty weak for a bard. Thankfully, the bard itself is plenty strong enough

It looks pretty alright to be honest, the tales effects, while random, are all GOOD, so it's always something worth using at the very least.

I honestly wager this subclass is going to get crippled in some way when it gets officially released.

They seem to have a habbit of making many UA options somewhat stronger but massively less fun (e.g. Rune Knight, Fey Ranger, Wildfire Druid). I would imagine that this will be the same.

[Man_Over_Game]

Seems interesting. I had read it wrong the first time, thinking it was horrendously weak by not being able to know if you're buffing or attacking the target, but being able to roll first and then pick the target makes it a LOT better.

It's expensive, but very powerful for a Bardic Inspiration use.

The only thing that comes off as odd is the fact that it adds two legitimate ways to spend your action without spending spell slots, where most bards get none. You could also mix in some Sorcerer levels to Twin Guidance in a pinch.

[quindraco]

Spiritual Focus is the Artificer Artillerist ability but worse, so the same logic applies: get your hands on AOE spells so your bonus applies to every target. Your copy works on AOE healing, so spells like Mass Cure Wounds are good choice.

Nothing else leaps out at me in terms of building yourself around the subclass, but I'd ask your GM to houserule that you can choose to roll on the Tale table with a weaker die than your actual one, to avoid the class punishing you for leveling up by making your RNG worse.

[Nidgit]

As mentioned, Spirits is currently in UA. Pretty much everyone agrees that it's a fantastic concept but one that's a bit complicated to use effectively, so we're all hoping the official version next month is a lot more streamlined.

[Thunderous Mojo]

To be clear, I'm mainly attracted to College of Spirits for the lore/vibe, so even if its kinda bad I'll still play it. I'm mainly coming here in order to mitigate some of that badness, if possible.

I don't think the U/A nails the flavor. Spiritual Focus feels like a mismatch for the class. The Bard spell list does not contain an abundance of spells that damage or heal.

To garner the most benefit from Spiritual Focus at 6th level your spell list will look something like this:

1st level: Thunder Wave, Cure Wounds
2nd Level: Cloud of Daggers, Shatter, Phantasmal Force
3rd Level: Oops the Bard spell list doesn't contain any spells that heal or deal damage at this level.

This spell list, while effective doesn't evoke 'College of Spirits' to me.
That spell list screams Artificer to me.

Spiritual Focus should add extra spells in my opinion, and needs to be reworked to better match the implied flavor. If you want to do some blasting though, you will be fine with the U/A.

[KorvinStarmast]

As mentioned, Spirits is currently in UA. Pretty much everyone agrees that it's a fantastic concept but one that's a bit complicated to use effectively, so we're all hoping the official version next month is a lot more streamlined.

But we are not betting the rent money on that being the case. Tasha's signalled that the QC effort has lost emphasis ...

[P. G. Macer]

I don't think the U/A nails the flavor. Spiritual Focus feels like a mismatch for the class. The Bard spell list does not contain an abundance of spells that damage or heal.

To garner the most benefit from Spiritual Focus a 6th level your spell list will look something like this:

1st level: Thunder Wave, Cure Wounds
2nd Level: Cloud of Daggers, Shatter, Phantasmal Force
3rd Level: Oops the Bard spell list doesn't contain any spells that heal or deal damage at this level.

This spell list, while effective doesn't evoke 'College of Spirits' to me.
That spell list screams Artificer to me.

Spiritual Focus should add extra spells in my opinion, and needs to be reworked to better match the implied flavor. If you want to do some blasting though, you will be fine with the U/A.

Minor nitpick, but if you play with the Tasha’s expanded spell lists, bards get Mass Healing Word, a 3rd-level spell. But since you cannot assume that Tasha’s is in play (even though WotC is acting like it is), your point still stands.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Minor nitpick, but if you play with the Tasha’s expanded spell lists, bards get Mass Healing Word, a 3rd-level spell. But since you cannot assume that Tasha’s is in play (even though WotC is acting like it is), your point still stands.

Thank You for the catch. I didn't have sufficient time to check TCoE.
Spiritual Focus at 6th level essentially Upcasts Mass Healing Word into a 4th level slot for free.

Unfortunately, this alone is not sufficient to stimulate the Powergamer areas of brain enough to override my aesthetic objections. 🥸

[Blueiji]

This analysis of the subclass and its features has all been really helpful! I now feel prepared to make the best of it, and I'm excited for this character. Thank you dearly, Playground. <3

[MrStabby]

I don't think the U/A nails the flavor. Spiritual Focus feels like a mismatch for the class. The Bard spell list does not contain an abundance of spells that damage or heal.

To garner the most benefit from Spiritual Focus at 6th level your spell list will look something like this:

1st level: Thunder Wave, Cure Wounds
2nd Level: Cloud of Daggers, Shatter, Phantasmal Force
3rd Level: Oops the Bard spell list doesn't contain any spells that heal or deal damage at this level.

This spell list, while effective doesn't evoke 'College of Spirits' to me.
That spell list screams Artificer to me.

Spiritual Focus should add extra spells in my opinion, and needs to be reworked to better match the implied flavor. If you want to do some blasting though, you will be fine with the U/A.

Thunderwave and cure wounds dont have a material component so dknt benefit from spiritual focus. Cloud of daggers does no damage "when cast" so also receives no benefits... probably. To be fair the ability just requires you to roll the d6 when the spell is cast, you may be able to save it to use till such tame as the spell leads to a damage roll.

Shatter is fine to use it with though.

Either way, generally I am in agreement. The spell list does not support the ability well at all.

My suggestion to the OP is to play the class anyway. You want the flavour and it does kinda deliver it. See if your DM will upgrade/make relevant some of the abilities though - making some more spells bard spells or making custom spells that work with abilities.

I would also suggest buffing spirit session to allow any necromancy/divination spell of a level you have slots for. As it is, your divination/necromancy themed character will get access to these thematic abilities later than something like a generic war wizard which kind of undermines your specialism. In practice, I found the spells for this ability to be a bit too limited to be useful: an occasional raise dead comes in handy and swapping it for more either a divination spell of a more combat themed spell like animate dead is good, but the whole interaction of everything is so painful that it never works out well.

You can animate dead as a good spell to use. If you do, then when you make use of your ability to pick a different spell your army goes wild. Raise dead/revify is a great use on paper - a spell you wont need every day but great when you do, but in reality having to wait till after the next long rest is a pain and with one member of your party down and unable to take part in the ritual you might not be able to even get a spell of the requisite level. It is nice, but just not as good as it first looks and leaves you less good in your area of specialism than a generic cleric or wizard.