Getting Back Into Star Trek?

[Grey Watcher]

So, I've hesitated to watch new Star Trek stuff (Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, etc.) because I haven't kept up with the franchise in a long time (I fell out of the habit of watching regularly sometime during the runs of DS9 and Voyager).

My question here is as follows: how much does appreciating these newer Trek shows depend on being familiar with the older stuff? Should I wait until I get around to watching my way through DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, or is it OK to dive right in? (I already consider myself to be very familiar with the Original Series, the Animated Series, and The Next Generation, including the movies featuring those casts.)

Not really interested in recommendations based on the actual quality of the shows themselves for now. I've heard some pretty extreme opinions on both ends of the spectrum, so I figure the only way for me to really know if I think they're good or bad is to see them for myself.

[JadedDM]

All three shows have some references to previous shows, but for the most part, they're just that--references. Cool if you get them, but it doesn't ruin your understanding if you don't.

Lower Decks might be an exception. A lot of the jokes kind of depend on you knowing stuff from previous shows.

Picard is fairly dependent on TNG, but that probably goes without saying. But it also has quite a few references to VOY, as well (mostly in regard to the Borg).

Most of Discovery's references are from TOS. Which make sense, since initially, it takes place around the same time period.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Grey Watcher
I already consider myself to be very familiar with the Original Series, the Animated Series, and The Next Generation, including the movies featuring those casts.

If you're familiar with TNG and the subsequent movies, then you already know just about everything you need to start with Picard. There are a couple references to the first Trek reboot movie from 2009, but other than that the series doesn't really rely on DS9 or Voyager.

Discovery makes some TOS references, the most important of which is Christopher Pike, but if you're familiar with TOS you should be fine.

As for Lower Decks, I haven't watched much of it, but I had the sense they relied on a lot of fast-paced in-jokes, so that one might be more difficult to jump into.

[Gallowglass]

IMO, you don't need to worry about watching Voyager, Enterprise or Deep Space Nine to get any of the series.

***
Discovery takes place between Enterprise and The original Series, specifically something like 10 years before the Original Series. A younger version of Spock, Christopher Pike, Number One, Et al show up in the second season of Discovery. This would be prior to the Cage (original pilot). It's firmly set in non-reboot universe. Vulcan is not destroyed for example.

it makes absolutely ZERO reference to Enterprise. Because its a prequel to everything else, you don't need to see any of the other series at all to get the show. That being said, it is so dissimilar to tone to any of the prior shows, you need to have an open mind to something different/new or you won't like it. I - personally - started liking it a lot more when I just mentally made it a non-star-trek-related sci-fi show rather than a star-trek show. I was seriously beholden to what I thought a star trek show should be and I needed to just mentally segment it to start enjoying it. Basically, if it was a sci-fi show without star trek in the name, I realized I would like it, so there's no reason to hate it just because of my inbuilt prejudices.

***

Picard is set twenty or thirty years after the last TNG movie and more or less follows from that. It doesn't make any reference to anything from DS9 at all. it uses a couple characters from Voyager, so it wouldn't hurt to know who they are. Its ALSO set in the non-reboot universe. Vulcan is still there. I'd say all you really need to know from Voyager is that there is an ex-borg named Seven of Nine and a handful of other ex-borg (one of which is named Icheb) who came back with Voyager from their mission twenty-odd years ago. In the years between, Seven of Nine has started a non-federation/non-starfleet order of protectors called Rangers who keep peace on the border between what used to be Romulan space and Federation space. Beyond that they are ex-borg you really don't need to know much about them. The only thing you really need to know from the terrible, last TNG movie and the Reboot movies is that Data was destroyed saving Picard's life from a Romulan attempt to kill him. And after that the Romulan sun blew up, taking out a large portion of Romulan power and basically collapsing their empire into a series of smaller insular states. Everything else you need to find out you will learn watching the show.

I will state that a big part of Picard is slowly learning about what has happened over the preceding 20 years to Picard and the universe. You get fed what you need to know, so don't get irritated if it takes a while to make everything clear. You aren't missing anything, this is all new information to everyone.

***

Lower Decks is an animated comedy series set in the years directly following TNG, DS9 and Voyager. It makes numerous references to things from all the prior series, but not in a way that means someone who didn't watch them won't get the joke. Its remarkably self-contained for what it is. Most of the references are to TOS and TNG and reflect the writers having more reverence for the earlier things. By the end of the first season they sort of set up a "mission" of following up on the unresolved threads left abandoned by ex shows. Such as going back to the world from the TOS episode with the computer who brainwashed everyone to find out that after Kirk and crew left, the computer just went back to doing the same thing. Personally, i think this is hilarious, but I could see why it could make it harder for people to follow if they aren't aware of the original references. Its funny and doesn't depend on understanding all the in jokes to be amused.


*****

TLDR: Nothing from Enterprise or Deep Space Nine are important to know. All you need to know from Voyager is that there are some ex-borg running around federation space. Discovery is significantly tonally different than prior shows. Picard is a long form serial story that feels like an update of TNG. Lower Decks is a pure comedy that doesn't require encyclopedic knowledge to enjoy it, but it might enhance your enjoyment if you did have it.

[Peelee]

Gallowglass's breakdown is excellent and I agree with it. Though as an addendum, if you haven't seen any Trek since the 90s...well, i liked Enterprise (at least the parts that didn't deal with the Temporal Cold War and the Xindi).

[JadedDM]

it makes absolutely ZERO reference to Enterprise.

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[factotum]

Gallowglass's breakdown is excellent and I agree with it. Though as an addendum, if you haven't seen any Trek since the 90s...well, i liked Enterprise (at least the parts that didn't deal with the Temporal Cold War and the Xindi).

I didn't like Enterprise at all, but not because of the acting or writing, which were mostly OK. I didn't like it because it felt like a gigantic missed opportunity to actually show what things would have been like back then. Example: in the regular Star Trek we have shields, which are a thing that reduces incoming damage and whose integrity can be expressed as a percentage. Enterprise didn't have shields, so they decided to have "polarised hull plating" (which already sounds ridiculous), which is a thing that reduces incoming damage and whose integrity can be expressed as a percentage. So, basically, shields but they call it something different. Oh, and the NX-01, the fastest, most powerful ship ever created by humans, is sent out on a random exploration mission rather than, I don't know, *protecting their colonies and transports from pirates*, something we know is an issue because they had episodes about it!

IMHO, the Enterprise should have been the second or even maybe the third NX class ship launched, because then its mission profile would have made sense. Since it's going into first contact situations there should have been actual diplomats aboard.

[KillianHawkeye]

IMHO, the Enterprise should have been the second or even maybe the third NX class ship launched, because then its mission profile would have made sense. Since it's going into first contact situations there should have been actual diplomats aboard.

I'm not going to say you're wrong, but the whole premise of Enterprise was basically that humanity hadn't learned any of that yet since they'd never had a ship fast enough to explore beyond Earth's immediate stellar neighborhood. And also that events conspired to thrust Earth into galactic affairs before they were really ready to be out there, so they just didn't have the luxury of doing as you suggest.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Sort of the same as the OP, I've been struggling with the new ST shows.
I didn't get on with Picard at all, as I felt it was too big a wrench away from the feel and style of TNG. But I keep hearing that Discovery is pretty good - and especially that it's good after the first season.
I watched a couple of episodes of the that first season and gave up, cause it just seemed to be trying to be grim for grimness' sake - and every time the Klingons appeared I just felt my eyes glazing over: they were SO dull!

Anyway, my question is: can I safely ignore Discovery S1, and start with S2 instead?

[Peelee]

I'm not going to say you're wrong, but the whole premise of Enterprise was basically that humanity hadn't learned any of that yet since they'd never had a ship fast enough to explore beyond Earth's immediate stellar neighborhood. And also that events conspired to thrust Earth into galactic affairs before they were really ready to be out there, so they just didn't have the luxury of doing as you suggest.

Indeed.

As to polarized hull plating, they were between a rock and a hard place; it was either do that, or have weapons that, for some reason, cannot seriously harm the ship. Its a minor thing I don't particularly care about.

Also, why would their flagship be sent to hunt down petty pirates? They don't need Warp 4 for that. Might as well ask why it wasn't used for shipping military or other high-importance components, since it was so fast. That's not what it was built for, it was built for finding out what was out there.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by factotum
I didn't like Enterprise at all, but not because of the acting or writing, which were mostly OK. I didn't like it because it felt like a gigantic missed opportunity to actually show what things would have been like back then.

Very much agreed. It felt like they wanted it to be exactly like TNG, with just a few cosmetic details altered, but still fighting Romulans with retro-designed Birds of Prey, etc.

I didn’t watch much of it, but what I saw didn’t feel like the beginning of the interstellar era.

Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed
Anyway, my question is: can I safely ignore Discovery S1, and start with S2 instead?

I would say that might be difficult, since a lot of the characters and situations set up in S1 carry over into S2.

Also, if you didn’t like S1, you probably won’t like S2. I gave up at the end of S2, and really wish I’d watched something else instead.

[Peelee]

Very much agreed. It felt like they wanted it to be exactly like TNG, with just a few cosmetic details altered, but still fighting Romulans with retro-designed Birds of Prey, etc.

I didn’t watch much of it

...its completely different from TNG, though? Imean like it or hate it, it definitely was its own separate show with its own feel and way to go about things. That's like watching the first two episodes of TNG and calling it a TOS clone with better effects.

[Gallowglass]

Spoiler: Image

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{Scrubbed}

[The Glyphstone]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

{Scrubbed} All they pointed out was a single Easter Egg that runs counter to the statement 'Zero References to Enterprise'. {Scrubbed}

[Gallowglass]

Sort of the same as the OP, I've been struggling with the new ST shows.
I didn't get on with Picard at all, as I felt it was too big a wrench away from the feel and style of TNG. But I keep hearing that Discovery is pretty good - and especially that it's good after the first season.
I watched a couple of episodes of the that first season and gave up, cause it just seemed to be trying to be grim for grimness' sake - and every time the Klingons appeared I just felt my eyes glazing over: they were SO dull!

Anyway, my question is: can I safely ignore Discovery S1, and start with S2 instead?

Eh. Maybe. S2 and S3 Discovery are certainly both very different tonally than S1 discovery. But there are some plots from S1 that carry through. Here, I'll put some info in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler: S1 spoilers

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S1 introduces us to the main character of discovery, Spock's adoptive human sister, Michael Burnham. Unlike other Star Trek, Discovery is a one character story, where everyone else is there to service her story. This gets slightly better in S2 and S3 and some of the other characters start getting fleshed out and given storylines, but not appreciably. It remains Michael Burnham's show.

in S1, the klingons are significantly reworked. Different look entirely which is pretty... well... bad in my opinion. Also they are split into several different species of Klingons. Black Klingons, Gold Klingons, so on and so forth. Its better to just imagine them a whole new race. The Klingon storyline takes up most of Season 1 but they more or less disappear by S2, so its okay to not understand any of it.

Michael Burnham is a LT on a ship run by her mentor Phillippa Gieorgiou. In the opening act, she gets killed and eaten by Klingons after Michael makes a rash decision that forces the Federation into a war with the Klingons. Michael is sent to prison, only to be broken out by another captain, Gabriel Lorca, who runs a top secret ship of mad scientists called Discovery.

That's what Discovery is. A ship of mad scientists. 99% of the crew are science officers. Lorca assembled them under the pretense of building future state weapons for the war against the Klingons. but he has ulterior motives.

The biggest thing Discovery has invented is the Spore drive. A form of transport using mushrooms that allows them to instantly transport to any point in the galaxy. Instant movement. They use this to start turning the war against the Klingons. The Spore drive gets used in S2 and S3 so its important. Know that the ships "chief engineer" is a human who has bound himself to the Spore engine and is needed to run it. A biological component.

The Klingons make a secret agent to infiltrate Discovery by surgically and genetically altering a Klingon into a human. This is Michaels love interest and the only thing that ties S1 klingons into S2. They do to good of a job and he is torn between his two cultures.

At the midpoint of S1, it all changes. We find out that Lorca is secretly from the mirror universe. You know, from TOS, DS9 and a few other showings. He escaped to the prime universe and has orchestrated the build of Discovery and the spore drive to get back to his universe intending to... I don't know... conquer it I guess? I'm unclear as to his motives.

Discovery ends up in the Mirror universe where, shocker, we find out that Michael's ex-mentor Phillipa Gieorgiou is the emperor! and that the Mirror Burnham is dead, killed by Lorca before he escaped.

A plot that doesn't matter in later seasons ensues, and Lorca gets killed and the Discovery gets back to the prime universe, bringing evil Phillipa with them. Once back they solve the Klingon crisis and stop the war. Hooray.

At the end of season the decision is made to take all of discovery's ... er... discoveries... and hide them away because they are too dangerous. This is a sad attempt to explain why all the things they found out are still secret when Kirk and others run into them in a few years. The last coda of the season involves them getting a distress call.... from THE ENTERPRISE! GASP!

And that leads to S2.

I think they do a good job "reintroducing" the side cast members in S2 so you will be okay as long as you can live with not knowing the relationships between the main character and the rest of the crew immediately until they get "reintroduced". Except maybe

Spoiler

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Evil Phillipa. That's a hard one to not have some backstory on. Also the Klingon that's not a Klingon whose name I can't even remember. I guess he would be confusing too.

Although I will say that if you couldn't get into Picard because it was too dissimilar to TNG, then I would recommend staying as far away from Discovery as you can.

[Gallowglass]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote} All they pointed out was a single Easter Egg that runs counter to the statement 'Zero References to Enterprise'. {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

{Scrubbed} I shouldn't have to wordsmith a pack of adverbs in a post to the point of "Makes exactly zero (meaningful) reference to Enterprise (that I recall) in order to satisfy the internet pundits who constantly want to one up others and prove their trivia superiority. But I guess I could be reading into it. If so I apologize. We all know I'm far too sensitive to be on the internet.

Knowing that Jonothan Archer is the captain of the Enterprise doesn't really fit the bill of "need to know" IMO.

[The Glyphstone]

Probably not. It's hardly need to know, that sort of thing is thrown in for the eagle-eyed fans to chuckle over because they got the obscure reference. Like how the Star Trek reboot film mentions Scotty accidentally vaporizing "Admiral Archer's prized beagle". Entirely irrelevant to the actual movie, but a nod to older continuity and the fans.

[Peelee]

Probably not. It's hardly need to know, that sort of thing is thrown in for the eagle-eyed fans to chuckle over because they got the obscure reference.

IIRC Futurama's writers liked to call those "freeze-frame jokes".

Like how the Star Trek reboot film mentions Scotty accidentally vaporizing "Admiral Archer's prized beagle". Entirely irrelevant to the actual movie, but a nod to older continuity and the fans.

It was nice of them to nod to the fans while dumping very light-reflecting rubbish over the fans.

[Gallowglass]

It was nice of them to nod to the fans while dumping very light-reflecting rubbish over the fans.

I personally, really enjoyed the reboot film.

It's a shame they never made any sequels.

[Peelee]

I personally, really enjoyed the reboot film.

It's a shame they never made any sequels.

I enjoyed a good bit of it, but things like completely wrecking how the entirety of space travel works doesn't quite rub me the right way. Abrams loves breaking established universes for minor plot contrivances in his movies, I've noticed.

[factotum]

And also that events conspired to thrust Earth into galactic affairs before they were really ready to be out there, so they just didn't have the luxury of doing as you suggest.

Those events consisted of taking a Klingon home. No reason why the ship couldn't have returned home immediately after that.

Also, why would their flagship be sent to hunt down petty pirates? They don't need Warp 4 for that.

It takes months to travel interstellar distances at the max warp 2 all their other ships can do, so yes, they totally *do* need Warp 4 for that. Not to mention, in the episode I was talking about (where they help out a cargo transport on its way from Earth), Archer's dialogue when speaking to the pirates goes something like "Take a careful look at this ship I'm in. You're going to be seeing a lot more of these around soon, and you'll be in real trouble then.". Unfortunately, the second NX ship then wasn't launched until three years later. If it had been out and about in a few months then I would withdraw my objection, but that's not what actually happened.

[False God]

Discovery is largely standalone, although it's setting claims otherwise, it feels more like a Trek AU. I'd rate it as requiring the least Trek-savvy of the new shows because of that.

Lower Decks is largely referential in the way memes are. If you've ever surfed a series of Star Trek memes, that's about as deep as you'll need to know. It does hold a lot more to what you would expect from more standard Trek fare (albeit with a comedy angle). It's fun and doesn't require much Trek-savvy, but I'd say more than Discovery, though that isn't much.

Picard is almost entirely reliant on your knowledge of TNG. A few things are spelled out, but it leans pretty heavily on "If you're watching this, we assume your favorite series is TNG." But it really only relies on the highlight reel of TNG, so if you want to google "best episodes of TNG" and then watch that, you'll probably get enough.

[SunsetWaraxe]

If you watched TNG and its movies, Picard is really easy to get into. If you need a refresher, you really only need to watch First Contact and Nemesis.

Discovery is Star Trek for a new generation, so you really do not need any prior knowledge.

Lower Decks lives and breathes in the TNG era shows. A lot of its humor is derived from poking fun or referencing things that happened in that era.

Strange New Worlds, a new show that is being filmed right now, will likely only require you to have watched season 2 of Discovery.

[JadedDM]

Oh Gosh. A name on a ridiculous background computer screen. How careless of me.

never mind. turns out you DO have to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Enterprise to enjoy it. I take back everything I said. Well done JadedDM. Very helpful.

Well, you didn't say you needed an encyclopedic knowledge of Enterprise to enjoy Discovery. If you had, I would have agreed with you. In fact, I said as much in my own post: "All three shows have some references to previous shows, but for the most part, they're just that--references. Cool if you get them, but it doesn't ruin your understanding if you don't." What you did say, was that Discovery makes "absolutely ZERO" references to Enterprise.

But really, I was just joking around. Otherwise, I would have instead pointed out that a major plotline from season 1 comes directly from an episode of Enterprise.

Spoiler: Major season 1 Discovery spoilers

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Enterprise's Season 4 episode "In a Mirror, Darkly" reveals that the Defiant (a Constitution class starship that vanished in the season 3 episode of TOS, "The Tholian Web") was transported to the Mirror Universe's 22nd century, captured by the Tholians, then stolen by the Terrans. This is how the Terran Empire learned of the Prime Universe, which is how Mirror Lorca knew of it and was able to escape to it and take his Prime counterpart's place.

[Peelee]

It takes months to travel interstellar distances at the max warp 2 all their other ships can do, so yes, they totally *do* need Warp 4 for that.

Oh, the pirates all have Warp 4 capable ships? If so, then a single NX ship is hardly going to be a match for any more than one of them, since they're at least as advanced as Earth. If not, then literally any of Earth's other ships in Starfleet would be better suited handle it. Either way, having the Enterprise run around chasing pirates in a show that's specifically designed around the seminal period of the Federation in the most advanced ship they had at the time sounds like it would have run for even fewer seasons. And that's not even getting into why the Vulcans, who were capable of Warp 6 at the time with more than a single ship, were allied with Earth, and were explicitly not wanting Earth to go too far too fast into the galaxy yet, wasn't doing a dang thing to help with the pirates. If you want to levy a complaint about show logic, aim it there instead.

Not to mention, in the episode I was talking about (where they help out a cargo transport on its way from Earth), Archer's dialogue when speaking to the pirates goes something like "Take a careful look at this ship I'm in. You're going to be seeing a lot more of these around soon, and you'll be in real trouble then.". Unfortunately, the second NX ship then wasn't launched until three years later. If it had been out and about in a few months then I would withdraw my objection, but that's not what actually happened.

Characters aren't allowed to boast or be over-confident?

But really, I was just joking around. Otherwise, I would have instead pointed out that a major plotline from season 1 comes directly from an episode of Enterprise.

Spoiler: Major season 1 Discovery spoilers

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Enterprise's Season 4 episode "In a Mirror, Darkly" reveals that the Defiant (a Constitution class starship that vanished in the season 3 episode of TOS, "The Tholian Web") was transported to the Mirror Universe's 22nd century, captured by the Tholians, then stolen by the Terrans. This is how the Terran Empire learned of the Prime Universe, which is how Mirror Lorca knew of it and was able to escape to it and take his Prime counterpart's place.

TOS, not Enterprise.

[JadedDM]

TOS, not Enterprise.

It's both.

Spoiler

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"The Tholian Web" (TOS) establishes the Defiant vanished.

"In a Mirror Darkly" (ENT) establishes the Defiant reappeared in the Mirror Universe of the 22nd century, was captured by Tholians, then stolen by the Terrans.

[Peelee]

It's both.

Spoiler

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"The Tholian Web" (TOS) establishes the Defiant vanished.

"In a Mirror Darkly" (ENT) establishes the Defiant reappeared in the Mirror Universe of the 22nd century, was captured by Tholians, then stolen by the Terrans.

Welp, don't need breakfast tomorrow, there's enough egg on my face already!

[factotum]

Either way, having the Enterprise run around chasing pirates in a show that's specifically designed around the seminal period of the Federation in the most advanced ship they had at the time sounds like it would have run for even fewer seasons.

Um, did you miss the part where I made it very clear that's not how I wanted the series to go? As I said, the NX class ship that was sent out to do the explory stuff should have been the second or even third one launched--there was absolutely no reason that Enterprise had to be the very first one. As for your other comment, it doesn't matter if the pirates can only do warp 2 when your warships can *also* only do Warp 2, because you can't catch them, and if you get a distress call from a freighter that's under attack, unless you're literally right on top of them it'll take you days, weeks or even months to get there.

[Peelee]

Um, did you miss the part where I made it very clear that's not how I wanted the series to go? As I said, the NX class ship that was sent out to do the explory stuff should have been the second or even third one launched--there was absolutely no reason that Enterprise had to be the very first one. As for your other comment, it doesn't matter if the pirates can only do warp 2 when your warships can *also* only do Warp 2, because you can't catch them, and if you get a distress call from a freighter that's under attack, unless you're literally right on top of them it'll take you days, weeks or even months to get there.

You made zero argument for why the first ship shouldn't be able to explore, other than that it should be used for cleaning up petty internal matter, which would not make sense and would by necessity rework the frame of the show. It's like complaining that the Red October wasnt in the Soviet version of the Coast Guard; that's not what it was built for. The NX was not built for chasing pirates. It was never in its mission statement. And there's no reason why it should have been, it would be a colossal waste.

If the pirates only have Warp 2, and the pirates are capable of chasing and finding cargo ships, then surely it works the other way around with Starfleet's military ships. And, again, Vulcans exist.

[DavidSh]

If the pirates only have Warp 2, and the pirates are capable of chasing and finding cargo ships, then surely it works the other way around with Starfleet's military ships.

I haven't watched that show. What speed do the cargo ships have? Do they describe how the pirates operate? There are scenarios where, to fight pirates, you either need superior speed, or supply military escorts to the cargo ships, or employ Q-ships.