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2021-05-03, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-05-03 at 03:23 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-05-03, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-05-03, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
I think the best reason why dragons hoard wealth I saw was in the comic book Raghnarok. Raghnarok (a dragon child) goes to visit his grandmother and spots a human fleeing with a bag full of gold.
Raghnarok: Nana, nana! I just saw a hman escape with your gold!
Grandmother: I saw him, what, do you think I'm blind?
R: And you're just going to leat him get away with it?
G: It's just the one human, it's not worth the exercise. Besides, I've got plenty of gold left.
R: But, think! Once the humans know you're just letting them take your gold, they'll come by dozens and -
R: *Realization*
*Cut to later as dozens of human mindlessly rush inside Grandmother's lair while chanting "gold" repeatedly*
R: You did it on purpose! That was a lure!
G: *Licking her lips, with a towel tied around her neck* Call it an investment.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-05-03, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2021
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Panel 11, "We didn't really plan it that way on purpose...but I guess we didn't really prevent it, either."
So Thor does not admit that he knew it would happen or that he knew he would benefit from it, only that he did nothing to stop it because it never crossed his mind.
“But it’s just so pejorative for you to say I share in the responsibility. And let’s try keep the focus on what’s important here. What’s important is the rude way you phrased it. “
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2021-05-03, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Bristol, UK
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
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2021-05-03, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-05-03, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
You are right. I’ve probably gone overboard here.
Regardless, Thor doesn’t deny what Durkon says. Thor adds more nuance, and it’s clear that he views the situation as more negligence than malice.
But at the end of the day, creating an ecosystem where everyone harvests xp really was the goal. And it didn’t bother any of the gods that the goblins found themselves in an undesirable niche in that ecosystem.
I know if I found myself in the goblin slot of that ecosystem, and if I found out the ecosystem was essentially designed that way, I would be pissed.
Probably not burn the world down and kill the gods pissed, but I’ve never had big goals.Last edited by Dion; 2021-05-03 at 10:57 PM.
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2021-05-03, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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2021-05-04, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
When the only reason you refrain from mass deicide is that it's too ambitious for your tastes.
But yeah, I feel like Redcloak's main point still stands. The gods might not have created goblins with the explicit intention of turning them into XP bags, but by Thor's own admission they didn't do anything to prevent the formation of an ecosystem where a sapient race is treated as a resource by the rest.
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2021-05-04, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-05-04, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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2021-05-04, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-05-04, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-05-04, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Calgary, AB
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2021-05-04, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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2021-05-04, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
"Awwwww, the jowwy widdle hawfwing wuvs his widdle cat! How cute!"
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2021-05-04, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2021
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
That is a stronger indication that it's connected in some way to the halfling race.
But, it might not be connected because it's true, and jolly still doesn't mean good.
By RAW, halflings are Usually Neutral, but an evil character can have just as high spirits. Belkar isn't un-jolly because he does murder, he's un-jolly because he does murder because he's angry.Last edited by Good Coyote; 2021-05-04 at 08:35 PM.
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2021-05-04, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by bunsen_h; 2021-05-04 at 09:49 PM.
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2021-05-04, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2021
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
I actually agree that it's more likely that it's to do with perceptions of the halfling race, since otherwise it's just coincidence that the guard happened to choose that particular word, which isn't common elsewhere. Also, I already agreed with the assumption that it was about all halflings.
I said stronger indication because it is theoretically possible that it was a coincidence, since the guard is clearly doing a baby talk mocking of Belkar. He's not particularly cute based on observation either. (In this sense, anyway, he's apparently fairly charismatic.)
It's not really important though because everything else I said was assuming it's true that there is a perception of halflings as jolly.
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2021-05-12, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2021
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
So, the crusade - or at least part of it - of the Little Bald Man With Red Cape is based on a false premise. Pretty interesting. I don't think that he will believe if someone tell him, of course, but maybe can shake his faith in The Dark One.
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2021-05-12, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-05-12, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah at this point, the reasons why are a bit of a moot point, people like something done about their injustices rather than people just sitting around being accurate about it. Sure its more accurate, but until you got a solution thats not going to help all that much.
I doubt the whole "everyone's got to eat and its a whole ecosystem" will really get through to Redcloak either, as its sounds like a survival of the fittest kind of thing and he is Lawful Evil trying to extremist ends for a cause of equality. to him that would probably the very kind of thing that Xykon revels in and Redcloak likes to think of himself as not being like Xykon, no matter how untrue one may think it is.
the thing that could give him pause though is the whole "we can't do widespread changes once the world's made" thing. because it makes his demands for the deities to give the goblins equality without destroying the world pretty much impossible. that or basically forces him into causing the world's destruction. though considering that he is going through this whole plan for one outcome or the other and just destroying the gates to force the gods to remake the world is easier to his perspective because it would mean to him that the Dark One gets have a say in the next world, he must be holding out some hope of the negotiations going through and divine change in this world being possible, or he wouldn't bother waiting for the heroes to destroy the gates he'd just sabotage or destroy them himself in ways that can't be traced back to him- heck, he wouldn't need Xykon for any of this if that was his goal, he'd just force all the gates destruction.
but thats not what he is doing. all this time he has been holding out hope that negotiations ARE possible and that the deities CAN change things without destroying and remaking the world without any proof of that being possible over something more known and quantified. a very idealistic hope for someone like him. he and O-Chul have an entire conversation about how he bet the longshot and how its the heroes who keep destroying the gates to prevent him, when really lets think about this:
-say Redcloak and Xykon succeeded at Lirian's Gate before any of this happened. what would've occurred? the gods would simply say "yeah we hear you, but we literally are unable to meet your demands, because we lock ourselves out of widespread changes once the world's done being created. its apart of the rules so we don't fiddle with it mid-world and potentially cause another snarl". Redcloak would realize its all for naught.......but we don't know what TDO's reaction would be.
all of this is ignoring what TDO is actually intending to do with the Gate once he has one. We just assume he is telling the truth about the negotiation bit, but he is literally formed from the beliefs of like, war hatred and vengeance towards the Northern Gods from the corpses of a million goblins, and goblin culture emphasizes a lot of "do what I say and don't ask questions" mentality that Redcloak embodies both ways, both not question his leaders orders while giving orders that his underlings don't question not realizing that they either sacrifice them or have purposes that aren't always to their benefit.
I have a simple theory, and that is: TDO doesn't intend to negotiate or bluff. He just intends to straight up murder the Northern Gods with the Snarl in revenge, figuring he can take over the entire pantheon to replace them with his quiddity and gain a bunch of belief from the former followers of the Northern Gods through fear. after all if a bunch of former northern god believers pray to TDO "Don't kill us" that counts as belief that could sustain him. nothing says he has to gain enough followers to get to the next world by making nice or only from goblins. after all, if he can use the snarl as a weapon of fear against the gods.....why not the mortals as well? that is a plan that is perfectly in keeping with a LE alignment, with his backstory and motivations. the whole negotiation part may just be a lie that was told to Redcloak and the goblins so that they would go along with this.
but if the gods can't actually make any changes to the world once its done? that lie comes crumbling down and Redcloak might go to TDO to check in with him on that, because without that hope, the one Redcloak has been shooting for rather than just destroying the gates to force a world remaking with more equal goblins....well...he either realizes that he has been lied to or devotes himself to this all so that TDO can gain a bunch of followers through fear, oppress them with goblins at the top.
its either that, or TDO berates Redcloak for abandoning Gobbotopia and thinks the Plan is stupid when they already got a good thing going with that. thats really the only two ways I can see this shaking out due to the "Don't screw this up" message. assuming Jirix isn't lying through his teeth and TDO said something about this that Redcloak really should've heard hundreds of pages ago.
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2021-05-13, 12:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-05-13, 06:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-05-13, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Is it lying if you're an author trying to preserve suspense for a work you haven't finished yet and so you don't tell your readers everything you know about the real plan?
Or if you change your mind after you wrote something and the plot ends up going a different way than you first thought it would?
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2021-05-13, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Yes, if an author gives a detailed clarification on a subject which he knows to be incorrect, that's lying by definition. Also, explaining things like this does not preserve suspense (since the readers stop being on high alert).
As for the other question, it would appear that the Giant has had a fairly clear picture of what the overarching plotline is going to look like for a long-long time, and I very strongly doubt that he would have changed his mind about something as important as this is during the course of the last two years just because "yeah, the explanation I gave makes all kinds of sense but if I throw it all out and it'll turn out the Dark One was simply retarded all along that will be such a TWEEEEST!"
At any rate, theories that contradict the Word of the Giant have precious little weight as far as I am concerned, and unless you want to seriously debate whether Thor is the Snarl and Fruit Pie is the only being powerful to stop him in time and save the world or not, you shoulp perhaps care a bit more about the author's statements.
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2021-05-13, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
When an author tries to preserve the suspense of their work they do so by being intentionally vague about it, not giving a detailed explanations about how it works and then later on have it work completely differently instead. Of course, an author could give an intentionally wrong explanation to throw people off, but that would be lying.
Last edited by Worldsong; 2021-05-13 at 09:38 AM.
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2021-05-13, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2021-05-13, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2021-05-13 at 03:11 PM.
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2021-05-13, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1232 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think it's unreasonable to think Rich would fudge the truth a bit to preserve spoilers or suspense, but I also don't think he's doing so here, for the reasons stated about what the Ritual actually does. The Dark One can't kill all the gods with it, he can only move the gate once to another plane-- and as some of you have said already, his grievance is with all of them, not just the Northern ones. It's probably a safe assumption that he knows what his own Ritual does, and thus the threat of using it to unleash the Snarl would be more effective than actually using it.