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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Jan 2012

    Default Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    As the title.

    I previously played vampire in 1st and 2nd edition, and see that it is up to 5th edition in the times apart from my absence of involvement.


    What big differences/changes are there between the those edition revisions that I need to be on the lookout for?

    I do understand that I will be basically beginning all over due to the length of time that I played last, but I want to be safe rather than sorry incase my memory has firmly held onto a random rule or two from back the the before time.

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    Friv's Avatar

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    Default Re: Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    To be honest, the short answer is "most of them."

    5th Edition was billed as a "back to basics" version of the game, but that's more thematic than mechanical. Blood Pool has been replaced by a Hunger mechanic that makes you more erratic as you get hungrier, with uncertainty about how much Blood you can use. Touchstones have been imported from Requiem, creating a system where you need to care for specific mortals to maintain your humanity. The basic die resolution system is slightly different; no more variable target numbers. Damage applies differently. Most of the Disciplines have very different mechanics. There is a Loresheet system to tie you to plot elements with your points. Generation has been divided into two traits, one which is static and one which grows over time.

    Narratively, the setting has changed a lot. Organized vampire hunters with government support control many cities, and are actively hunting vampires, driving the Camarilla further underground. The Sabbat have mostly vanished to fight ancient vampires in the Middle East, and many elders are being called by the Antediluvians, vanishing possibly for a time and possibly forever. The Setites joined the Camarilla and the Gangrel quit. The Ravnos may or may not be dead. There is a lot more, but that's off the top of my head.
    If you like my thoughts, you'll love my writing. Visit me at www.mishahandman.com.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anonymouswizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    The game desperately wants to be Requeiem 1e. Part is tied to both Agree and Generation, you begin at the minimum Blood Potency for your Generation, gain a dot every hundred years, and lose a dot if you spend too long in Torpor. Also, despite a couple of boosts (I think all weapons do less damage) vampires are in general weaker more to support human hunters and, via proxy, the Second Insisting as main antagonists.

    Oh, last time I checked all Generation did was call you minimum and maximum Blood Potency.

    Setting-wise the Camarilla has been reduced from an elite group who claimed dominion over all vampires and did their best to keep vampiric disorder to internal politicking, to an insular sect who requires you to jump through hoops to get in, threw the Anarchs to the Second Inquisition despite being responsible for the Masquerade breach, and shun all modern technology except possibly Cam-approved burner phones. In response three Clans have joined the Anarchs, who have also taken up solve of the Sabbath's nasty hobbies including widespread diablerie. Assamites are more in t Can and their Sorcerers and Viziers have been combined, which is bad news for the note fractured Clan Tremere.

    Anarchy Clans are the Brush, the Gangrel, the Settites, and the sparkles.

    Also changes to Disciplines (you can choose the power from want at each dot from those at that level or below! But you can only have five powers, max), changes to things like Blood Buffing and healing (make a Rouse Check, get a number of dice for one roll or heal a certain amount of damage), and other mechanical tweaks.

    Plus the entire no Sabbat deal, the Beckoning calling elders to the Middle East, the tender being split into four house, the Bloodlines of Death merging with the Giovanni, and other various changes. Don't get me wrong, it's mostly good stuff, but it is two steps to the side compared to late 2e and Revised era Masquerade. In some ways the fluff is back to the themes it has in the earliest days, in other ways it's not.

    Oh, and Thin Bloods are now super special values with varying traits and the ability to temporarily pick up Discipline powers by feeding, for no actually explained reason. Hence sparkles. Just give me a 13th generation Caitiff instead.
    Snazzy avatar (now back! ) by Honest Tiefling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    OK, thanks for that info.


    I remember combat being sludge to get through, is that still a thing in 5th or has it become more streamlined?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
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    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    Physical combat is pretty de-emphasized. It is pretty bare-boned and tries to end combat in 3 rounds. Main idea is everyone shares a turn essentially where the defending player now has the option to attack back or dodge. Damage has been redone to remove the soaking mechanic. It is just superficial or lethal. There are other rules to give a feel for some of the older styles like maneuvers, etc. but these are optional rules.

    Combat also can be social affairs of which now damage willpower.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    Reading this, I'd rather dig out my 2nd rev books and do my own housecleaning on setting and system.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anonymouswizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Reading this, I'd rather dig out my 2nd rev books and do my own housecleaning on setting and system.
    Honestly houseruling 2e or Requiem likely leads to a better game, it really makes me want to pick up V20.

    Did I mention that Nosferatu are no longer as ugly as they used to be? In fact a lot of Banes have been weakened somewhat, from Gangrel to Ventrue. The writers also missed a lot of nice opportunities (the Salubri get a write-up in the Companion! But it's the Seven again, instead of the Antitribu, Ashirra Salubri, or any of the other parts of the Clan with actual impact on the setting).
    Snazzy avatar (now back! ) by Honest Tiefling.

    RIP Laser-Snail, may you live on in our hearts forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Eldest's Avatar

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    Default Re: Differences between 1st/2nd edition Vampire and 5th.

    As somebody with no particular axe to grind, I would still recommend only looking over 5e for mechanical improvements and then bringing those to your game of choice. The lack of TN, the Hunger dice instead of blood points (make sure to pay attention to what blood potency gets to reroll what failed hunger dice), the simplified damage tracks, and the critical system, especially with messy crititals and bestial failures, I would look at specifically, as I feel like those all were great additions to the game. However, I felt like 5e was too lacking on material to properly bite into (pun intended), and would personally look at Requium where if I'm making it all up myself, I don't have to worry about fitting into other writer's ideas of what the setting should look like. If you instead prefer 1e or 2e, by all means.
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