What's so great about Dungeons and Dragons?

[Cyclone231]

I can't think of a reason that Dungeons and Dragons is better than other systems. Can anyone give me one?

It can't be because it's easy to remember, because to build the best character for your archetype you need a bunch of sourcebooks.

It can't be because character creation is simple, because if you make a multiclass character, selecting his skills is a very unintuitive way to spend time. It gets even worse if his Int changes.

It can't be because combat is simple, because, well, it isn't (grappling rules, for example).

So what is it? What makes it so great, so popular? Just pure, raw age?

[wgabrie]

Advertising.

[AstralFire]

Because everyone plays it so there's a huge amount of support for it. Same reason Windows is in no danger of falling to any form of Linux or Mac OS in a big way.

[Quietus]

I think it's got to do with several things :

1) It's one of the biggest names (if not THE biggest) in the RPG industry. It's been around for what, three decades now? Almost EVERYONE has heard of it.
2) You don't *need* all those sourcebooks, they just increase your options. They're nice to have, but not necessary.
3) The grapple rules aren't that tough. Though combat CAN be a little involved at times, I'm just saying that people make grappling out to be this horrible thing, when it's not.
4) Heroic fantasy. I have yet to see a better system for pulling off heroic fantasy; I've found Earthdawn to be generically annoying, and of the WoD games I've played, they're not as good at representing the typical Conan character, who can take several hits and not slow down. And don't get me started on Call of Cthulu.

But yeah, mostly, marketing and name brand recognition.

[Mewtarthio]

Also, Wizards of the Coast owns everyone's soul. I predict that they'll soon merge with Blizzard to become "Blizzards of the Coast," and then they will attain apotheosis. Unless, of course, 4e flops.

[Matthew]

It's self perpetuating. The company has more resources and a bigger market presence. It is fun, that's for sure, and the number of 'clone' games and D20 products attest to that.

[Cyclone231]

Because everyone plays it so there's a huge amount of support for it. Same reason Windows is in no danger of falling to any form of Linux or Mac OS in a big way.

So everyone plays it because everyone plays it? Thanks for the info.

4) Heroic fantasy. I have yet to see a better system for pulling off heroic fantasy; I've found Earthdawn to be generically annoying, and of the WoD games I've played, they're not as good at representing the typical Conan character, who can take several hits and not slow down. And don't get me started on Call of Cthulu.

I dunno, Hero System seems to be pretty good at handling heroic fantasy, and it's pretty easy to make a warrior, especially considering the low cost of Strength. And your warrior is far easier to make a person via skills than D&D, what with it's "haha fighters can't have any flavor skills like Perform or Profession or Knowledge :PPP".

I mean, really, in Hero, all you have to do to keep going for a while is just a little resistant Physical and Energy defense (maybe a dozen points worth) and a high STUN (or REC, if you like getting back up rapidly from going unconscious).

[AstralFire]

So everyone plays it because everyone plays it? Thanks for the info.

Dismiss me with snark all you want, but that's the truth. It's obviously not initially why D&D got popular, but it's certainly why it's maintained popularity. Tell me that you've never seen or heard some variation of the following:
"Yeah, I like ______ system better, but no one I know has the books or wants to play it, so I'm in a D&D campaign instead."

Popularity is a powerful tool. A system doesn't have to win converts, just cooperation.

Once you're popular and you've got widespread brandname recognition while not a whit of your competitors do, then the only way you're falling out of first place is when your CEO, Board of Directors, President, COO and Chairman all roll Nat 1s.

And of course, not always even then. After all, TSR pretty much did just that. But even my mom has a (vague, incorrect) recognition of the name "Dungeons and Dragons." The closest competitor is White Wolf. She would stare at you funny if you said a word about "Vampire: The Masquerade."

[Lord Tataraus]

It's self perpetuating. The company has more resources and a bigger market presence. It is fun, that's for sure, and the number of 'clone' games and D20 products attest to that.

Definitely this also, your comments are wrong.

I can't think of a reason that Dungeons and Dragons is better than other systems. Can anyone give me one?

There are worse systems and some that people could argue are "better" though to keep in the same genre, there really isn't a better system.

It can't be because it's easy to remember, because to build the best character for your archetype you need a bunch of sourcebooks.

I find it easy to remember and core is simple enough. Remember that you don't have to make very wizard a batman.

t can't be because character creation is simple, because if you make a multiclass character, selecting his skills is a very unintuitive way to spend time. It gets even worse if his Int changes.

I have found only one system that is easier than a D20 system to make a character for: Cyberpunk 2020, you fill out 40 points worth of skills (which isn't much) jot down your attributes, pick up a gun and maybe some random equipment and in ten minutes you play.

It can't be because combat is simple, because, well, it isn't (grappling rules, for example).

Combat is very straightforward and not everyone grapples. In fact, I've found most people use the same tactics throughout a campaign so it gets very quick because you know all the rules that apply to you.

So what is it? What makes it so great, so popular? Just pure, raw age?

Marketing and age are a big part of it as well. D&D is not a bad system, at all. In fact, it is a great system or every few people would play it.

[Lemur]

So everyone plays it because everyone plays it? Thanks for the info.

Is that sarcasm? I can't tell. But it's true on a profound level, no matter how strange it sounds. Any multiplayer game, not just P&P RPGs are going to become more popular and have greater perceived value as more people play them. It's easier to find players, and in some cases people will start playing just because their friends are, and they don't want to be out of the loop.

No matter how much WotC tries marketing, the game primarily spreads by word of mouth. The marketing is just there to feed off and maintain the existing customer base. It's not what actually makes the game popular.




hee hee, "Blizzards of the Coast".

[Chronos]

And your warrior is far easier to make a person via skills than D&D, what with it's "haha fighters can't have any flavor skills like Perform or Profession or Knowledge :PPP".

First of all, what makes you think that fighters can't have flavor skills? You can buy them cross-class, or you can dip another class for them, or you can get access to them through feats (of which the fighter has plenty), or you can just use them untrained. Second, what do skills have to do with making a character a person? That's equally easy (or difficult) in any system, because the things that make a character a person aren't numbers on the page.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

D&D is all I've ever known. I was introduced to the world of RPGs with this game, and to be honest I've never played anything else. It was a big step away for me when I decided to purchase the d20 Modern Handbook. Not Vampire, not Exalted but the d20 Modern Handbook, something that should have been an easy sell to me, except that I was nervous about venturing away from the familiar, comforting world of D&D. Up until then I'd bought D&D books and D&D books only, and I still purchase D&D books and D&D books only. Hell, I've never even bought any Forgotten Realms or Eberron books! I know that this is probably going to draw accusations of me being a puppet for WotC, and that's probably true, as I enjoy all the books I have (even though some have been declared by the community as only helpful because they can prop up that one bad table leg), and I'm relatively optimistic about the arrival of 4th Edition. Call me what you will, but I believe WotC to be doing a decent job, and frankly I'm tired of these accusations that 4e is just going to be World of Warcraft with a D&D label slapped on it.

[AstralFire]

D&D is all I've ever known. I was introduced to the world of RPGs with this game, and to be honest I've never played anything else. It was a big step away for me when I decided to purchase the d20 Modern Handbook. Up until then I'd bought D&D books and D&D books only, and I still purchase D&D books and D&D books only. I know that this is probably going to draw accusations of me being a puppet for WotC, and that's probably true, as I enjoy all the books I have (even though some have been declared by the community as only helpful because they can prop up that one bad table leg), and I'm relatively optimistic about the arrival of 4th Edition. Call me what you will, but I believe WotC to be doing a decent job, and frankly I'm tired of these accusations that 4e is just going to be World of Warcraft with a D&D label slapped on it.

I'm actually looking forward to the 4e ruleset, but I enjoy the constant revising of gamerules in the search of perfection.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm actually looking forward to the 4e ruleset, but I enjoy the constant revising of gamerules in the search of perfection.

What do you mean?

[AstralFire]

What do you mean?

When it comes to rulesets, I don't mind constant minor revising with the occasional large overhaul. I welcomed 3.5 with open arms, I welcome 4ed optimistically based on Tome of Battle and Star Wars SAGA edition, and when there eventually will be a 5ed, I'll look forward to it too. I acknowledge there are flaws with any system, so when I can be reasonably confident that a competent revision is underway (read: Not written by me, since I don't get to playtest much), I'm fairly glad to hear it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

When it comes to rulesets, I don't mind constant minor revising with the occasional large overhaul. I welcomed 3.5 with open arms, I welcome 4ed optimistically based on Tome of Battle and Star Wars SAGA edition, and when there eventually will be a 5ed, I'll look forward to it too. I acknowledge there are flaws with any system, so when I can be reasonably confident that a competent revision is underway (read: Not written by me, since I don't get to playtest much), I'm fairly glad to hear it.

Good to hear. I know this'll probably paint me as even more of a hopeless sheep, but I really just tend to trust WotC to give it their best effort. They helped to make D&D the most recocgnized RPG ever, and I think that the game is in good hands.

[AstralFire]

Good to hear. I know this'll probably paint me as even more of a hopeless sheep, but I really just tend to trust WotC to give it their best effort. They helped to make D&D the most recocgnized RPG ever, and I think that the game is in good hands.

And if it's not, well, it's easy to common-sense-out bad things. Not as easy to come up with good things.

[ocato]

and if all else fails, we can still play 3.5.

[random11]

1) Like other people mentioned: popularity.
It's a lot easier to find a group for D&D then for some other games.

2) Experience.
The company is old, but it also changes over time. I'm guessing it's mostly to make money, but it also improves the rules and gives more variety.

3) The style is fantasy, but it's general enough to fit any world or campaign you can think of.


Personally, I prefer point based systems over classes, and I also favor realism over heroic-epic, so D&D is not for me.
But if you want a heroic fantasy, and not too picky about the mechanics, D&D is an excellent choice.

[JaxGaret]

Options.

D&D in its current incarnation releases so much more material - just official WotC material, not even counting the many 3rd-party suppliers of D&D crack - than any of the other systesm, it's not even close.

The reason for this, of course, is that D&D has a much larger fan base, so WotC can afford to release many splatbooks and take losses on some of them if they completely flop. They make it all back in the end - but a smaller competitor can't.

Basically, it's just easier to play with the big stack, to use a poker analogy. It can be hard to play from behind. You either take more risks and probably fold, or play it safe and keep your small market share.

So, my answer is that it is economic in origin. As are most things.

[AslanCross]

I'll have to agree with the popularity argument. You'd think it would be difficult to find D&D players in a third world country half a world away from the US, but D&D is one of those games that everybody (lower middle class and above, at least) has at least heard of, whether negatively or positively. That's why it was so easy for me to ask people if they were interested in learning the game.

"Oh sure, my uncle used to play that and I always wanted to learn it!"
"My brother told me about how he dropped a boulder on his party member once..."

In a world where there are so many ways to do viral marketing, a game that has been spreading by viral marketing for two decades would definitely have some clout.

[CrazedGoblin]

Because it is.

[Winterwind]

Here in Germany, D&D came out practically simultaneously with a German RPG with a similar premise (heroic fantasy) called Das Schwarze Auge (DSA, The Dark Eye), which promptly surpassed D&D in terms of popularity. I know dozens of roleplayers, and none of them plays or has ever played D&D. Why DSA surpassed D&D so much, I don't know, but it shows that D&D's popularity probably indeed relies on it having been the first RPG to a significant degree, since in a country where it failed to be the first one it did not become nearly as dominating.

[Mr Horse]

For me, it's mainly nostalgia. I also like the basic "feel" of the system and the rich campaign worlds, although I hated the item/loot-oriented and exceptionally high magic direction the system took with 3.0 and even moreso 3.5 Edition.
I usually play with the 3.5E rules, but a 2nd Ed attitude towards the whole magic items deal.

[Grynning]

A lot of people have mentioned D&D's popularity, but there's another quality that's harder to describe but just as important: the mystique. D&D has a certain feel, a kind of familiarity mixed with grandeur. I think everyone who plays fantasy RPG's still gets a little misty eyed about that first time your party of 4 (Fighter Cleric Thief and Magic User) kicked open the doors of dungeon and started killing monsters and taking their stuff. Sure the game has evolved considerably since then, but D&D has always managed to stay true to it's roots. It still has that kind of lackadaisical fantasy feel that is lacking from a lot of other games that take themselves way too seriously.
Anyways, that's why I still love it. Granted, I love other games too, I'm stoked about getting a Conan d20 game going (which has fairly different rules for the most part), I play a WoD game, a Call of Cthulu game, and I played Palladium for a long time. But D&D will always have a special place on my shelf...probably the biggest, too.

[Bayar]

It is popular because it is based on the Lord of the rings...and it is around for about 30 something years...it was first a game only for geeks. Now if you play D&D, you are cool

[Kurald Galain]

4) Heroic fantasy. I have yet to see a better system for pulling off heroic fantasy;

Exalted. TORG. Amber DRP. MERP. Palladium. Runequest.

Ctulhu is not supposed to be heroic fantasy to begin with.

I have found only one system that is easier than a D20 system to make a character for: Cyberpunk 2020

Oh, but there are tons and tons of systems with easier and/or faster character creation than D&D. Literally anything by White Wolf, for starters. Then, Ctulhu, Paranoia, Toon, Over the Edge, Warhammer FRP, Indiana Jones RP, Amber DRP, et cetera. The only ones that stand out as being more complex than D&D are GURPS, Hackmaster, and Alternity.

It's not that D&D is difficult per se, because any moderately intelligent person can certainly learn those combat rules, or character building rules, over a few sessions, but it's that many other RPGs are simpler.


Anyway. In my opinion, there are two problems with D&D. The first is that the class system is really restrictive (just look at the trouble you have to go through to play a wizard who can wield a sword well...) The second is that combat is excessively slow. Both of these can be alleviated by house ruling, of course. Oh, and the third problem is that having large quantities of rules breeds rules lawyering players, but the answer to that is simply to play with people you like.

[Grynning]

Hey, now, don't knock us rules lawyers. For some of us that's part of the fun
I will concede that a lot of RPG's have simpler rules, but a lot of those RPG's are also A. Crappy B. Just as restrictive rules-wise, or worse, so rules-lite that it affects playability (Palladium is included in this category for me, their games have tons of rules, but not for any of the important stuff...like movement in combat, for instance) C. Have this kind of RP-nazi philosophy that encourages role-play that can be a bit too immersive. Sometimes I feel like playing one of those games, but a lot of times, I want to look at a grid, move around figures, throw dice around, get into silly arguments about the practicality of Halflings as weaponry, and laugh a lot. That's where D&D excels.

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

The game is fun because it emualtes a certain kind of fantasy, less so in 3rd, but I like it all the same. I find classes and all that sort of thing fun, as well as the flavor.

I honestly can't see where all the hate is coming from.

[Dausuul]

As others have said, market share tends to be self-perpetuating; like Windows, D&D is in an industry where the cost of switching to a different product is high. If somebody tells you there's a better brand of pizza out there, it's easy to give it a try and it's easy to change to the new pizza if you decide you like it better. With RPGs, though, learning the new system takes some time, mastering the new system takes more time, it requires a fresh outlay of cash to buy the rulebooks, you usually have to dump your existing campaign, and it's often hard to tell whether the new system really is better until you've reached a certain level of mastery.

In addition, WotC's tremendous market share enables it to pump out new sourcebooks at a prodigious pace, and they have a lot more resources to improve the product. I know people like to complain about how WotC never playtests anything, but in all honesty the D&D system goes through far more testing, and is better balanced, than the vast majority of competing RPGs; WotC can afford to do that. It can also afford to hire excellent designers and put them to work full-time.

I'm not saying that D&D isn't a good system, because it is, for all its flaws and irritations. But it's the structural advantages of being the first in the industry that have kept it on top all these years.