Why dose the forum seem to think Thor is CG?

[urbanwolf]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

[ebarde]

The clerics he empowers are all Lawful Good, which is only one step removed of CG

[KorvinStarmast]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

first offer me edivance of a forum that is sentient.

[Psteve]

The clerics he empowers are all Lawful Good, which is only one step removed of CG

Lawful Good is 2 steps removed from Chaotic Good. Neutral Good and Chaotic Neutral are the only alignments that are 1 step away from Chaotic Good

[Jason]

In the 3.0 Deities and Demigods Thor is Chaotic Good.

[Sir_Norbert]

In the early strips, for instance #73, Thor was portrayed a lot more chaotically than his recent appearances. Since those early appearances were all we had to go on for a long time, "CG" became pretty much accepted.

[dancrilis]

first offer me edivance of a forum that is sentient.

I was going to try this - but deleted the post as it might have been viewed as overly political or potentially insulting (not to you but to all of us - although it wasn't intended to be).

In brief the forum could be considered a superorganism under some social theory.

[KorvinStarmast]

I was going to try this - but deleted the post as it might have been viewed as overly political or potentially insulting (not to you but to all of us - although it wasn't intended to be).

In brief the forum could be considered a superorganism under some social theory.

"The forum" does not speak with one voice. It is a cacophony of voices, hence the question is based on a false premise. Attempting to superimpose that status of "superorganism" on this forum is a lost cause. The 1232 thread, and the plethora of disagreements therein, as well as the V & I thread, demonstrate but two examples of a lack of consensus as the normal state of being.

Which is fine.

[ziproot]

"The forum" does not speak with one voice. It is a cacophony of voices, hence the question is based on a false premise. Attempting to superimpose that status of "superorganism" on this forum is a lost cause. The 1232 thread, and the plethora of disagreements therein, as well as the V & I thread, demonstrate but two examples of a lack of consensus as the normal state of being.

Which is fine.

If the OOTS forum users became the OOTS gods for a day, we would get another snarl really quickly.

[Doug Lampert]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

That would be like how Sune who is CG can't have LG clerics and paladins, except that she totally does.
That would be like how Mystra who is NG can't have LE clerics, except that she totally does. (3 steps away)
That would be like how Saint Cuthbert who is LN allows LE clerics, except that he totally does not, and that one is in core.

There are allowed to be exceptions, there is an exception in core, there are many exceptions in specific settings.

[Ruck]

And we're well past the point where anyone should expect strict fidelity to the rules if that would get in the way of the story.

(If you really need an in-universe explanation, perhaps the bet expanded Thor's possible range of clerics since he's been basically charged with keeping the dwarves from going to Hel.)

[urbanwolf]

That would be like how Sune who is CG can't have LG clerics and paladins, except that she totally does.
That would be like how Mystra who is NG can't have LE clerics, except that she totally does. (3 steps away)
That would be like how Saint Cuthbert who is LN allows LE clerics, except that he totally does not, and that one is in core.

There are allowed to be exceptions, there is an exception in core, there are many exceptions in specific settings.

I would call Saint Cuthbert a restriction instead of a exception, but exception are the alternate to the rule. wouldn't the razor say that no exception(or homebrew or house rule) would be closer to text than assuming one.

One could argue that Thor was acting chaotic in his first few appearances, but that would only prove he was not Lawful.

Thor dose not seem to champion Chaos or Law. He is Good in big giant letters.

[Darth Paul]

Thor does not seem to champion Chaos or Law. He is Good in big giant letters.

Possibly because Thor doesn't favor Chaotic over Lawful or Neutral. He may be Chaotic Good without especially championing it as a favored alignment; in so many words, he doesn't care what else you are, as long as you're Good. (In the same way that Loki, in his recent appearances, hasn't seemed especially Evil, even though by SRD he is Chaotic Evil. Loki seems more concerned with Chaos than Evil to me.)

Thor's recent, less-Chaotic seeming behavior can be chalked up to A) Characterization Marches On, and B) the fate of the world is at stake, so he's been forced to stop getting hammered on giant steins of beer and take things seriously for a change. Once the world is saved, he'll be the first to reach for a big, big drink.

[ebarde]

Thor's upholding of the divine law seems to be something all gods share.

[Quebbster]

Have we seen clerics of Thor who weren't dwarves? Dwarves seem to lean towards the Lawful side in OotS, possibly due to the Bet. It's quite possible Thor makes an exception for dwarves as he is their patron deity.
Or maybe Thor is just Neutral Good with leanings toward the Chaotic side.

[Morty]

Thor was introduced as Durkon's deity at the very start of the comic, when neither he nor Durkon had a lot of characterization. Once they did, their relationship couldn't exactly be retconned. Besides, even if Thor is CG, he and Durkon seem to get on fine.

[KorvinStarmast]

If the OOTS forum users became the OOTS gods for a day, we would get another snarl really quickly.

*applause*

Possibly because Thor doesn't favor Chaotic over Lawful or Neutral. He may be Chaotic Good without especially championing it as a favored alignment; in so many words, he doesn't care what else you are, as long as you're Good. {snip} Loki seems more concerned with Chaos than Evil to me.)

Yeah, which is a far more coherent presentation of those two deities than attempting to pigeon hole them into the ever clunky two axis alignment table.

[faustin]

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

Alternatively, Thor respects that rule as much as the specifications of Control Weather.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html

Why? Because he is Thor. That's why.

[Precure]

Because he was pretty chaotic for most of his appearances.

[TRH]

I don't like the implications of clerics going 3 steps away from their god, especially if that means going from one end of an axis all the way to the other, but I'll concede such a thing is possible. What I don't understand is what seems to be a consensus that not only can Thor be Chaotic Good, but that he definitely is, or possibly even must be so. Yes, he's dismissive of some of the rules and restrictions surrounding Gods' relationships with mortals and the Snarl and all of that, but Roy, someone who is Lawful, has also been, shall we say, less than satisfied with abstruse rules and red tape from time to time. And we've seen just how actively harmful some of these rules can be when abused, so that never felt conclusive to me, and yet I've felt like "Thor=CG" was about as close to a consensus as this forum is capable of having.

If the OOTS forum users became the OOTS gods for a day, we would get another snarl really quickly.

And at least half of us would be too busy explaining why this Snarl can't be as deadly as the original to avoid getting ripped apart by it.

[TaiLiu]

Wasn't there a forum post where Rich said that Thor was NG?

[hamishspence]

Not that I know of. The closest to that is The Giant saying that OOTS Thor is not required to match D&D Thor or Nordic Legends Thor.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070220...ead.php?t=7283

So I picked Thor because he had a big hammer and wore a hat with horns. That is all the internal logic I required when choosing, because I don't care about the things you apparently care about, like whether the alignment printed in the D&D book for Thor was 100% appropriate, or what the long-dead people who invented Thor portrayed him as. Those things are utterly irrelevent. I care more about the Marvel Comics version of Thor than I do about what is printed in Deities & Demigods.

In the OOTS world, Thor behaves exactly as I say he does, and no other way.

...

Until I reference Nordic legends in the strip, those legends don't exist.

[Peelee]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

What I don't understand is what seems to be a consensus that not only can Thor be Chaotic Good, but that he definitely is, or possibly even must be so. Yes, he's dismissive of some of the rules and restrictions surrounding Gods' relationships with mortals and the Snarl and all of that, but Roy, someone who is Lawful, has also been, shall we say, less than satisfied with abstruse rules and red tape from time to time.

Let's come at it from the other way: if you leave aside the two-step rule from the D&D sourcebooks and judge him solely by what we see in-comic, what evidence do we have that Thor is Lawful?

[dancrilis]

Let's come at it from the other way: if you leave aside the two-step rule from the D&D sourcebooks and judge him solely by what we see in-comic, what evidence do we have that Thor is Lawful?

I don't think there is hard evidence for his alignment at all.

However one of his most significant contributions is to help the dwarves develop the most honour-bound society on the planet - which could be considered an indication of a lawful disposition (and a good one).

[Peelee]

I don't think there is hard evidence for his alignment at all.

However one of his most significant contributions is to help the dwarves develop the most honour-bound society on the planet - which could be considered an indication of a lawful disposition (and a good one).

To our knowledge, that contri ution consisted of a single act: telling the Dwarves about the bet, which Hel did not expect at all and could be argued to be Chaotic.

Aside from that, Thor seems to gleefully bend the rules at the slightest provocation (rules that all gods, regardless of alignment, agree to follow), which is further evidence that he is likely Chaotic (or, at least, non-Lawful).

There is weak evidence for Chaotic. So far as I can tell, there is no evidence for Lawful.

[dancrilis]

To our knowledge, that contri ution consisted of a single act: telling the Dwarves about the bet

You can read panel 5 that way but I don't - to me it seems more active then merely what was mentioned in panel 4 (same strip).

[Good Coyote]

Assuming he was active in the shaping of that culture, by that point being honorable was the only way for dwarves to save their souls. Even a CG person would see reason to take the Lawful route, if it's the only Good one available.

However he would have had to understand honor pretty well himself in order to guide them on it, which could be weak evidence for Lawfulness, even though some Chaotic people are good at understanding Lawful thinking.

There's also a little more evidence in that he accepted "honor" as the terms of the bet in the first place.

[PontificatusRex]

I will once again point out that Minrah, the cleric of Thor we've spent the second-most amount of time with, seems far more Chaotic than Lawful in her outlook. People seem to think that the fact that she's a dwarf must mean she's lawful, but she seems to me to be very clearly a person who values her own individuality and personal decisions than the dictates of society.

[Trafalgar]

We are the Forum. Lower your fire walls and surrender your accounts. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to​ service us. Resistance is futile.

[urbanwolf]

Let's come at it from the other way: if you leave aside the two-step rule from the D&D sourcebooks and judge him solely by what we see in-comic, what evidence do we have that Thor is Lawful?

None; but I am not saying he is Lawful, not being Lawful dose not make you Chaotic.

I will once again point out that Minrah, the cleric of Thor we've spent the second-most amount of time with, seems far more Chaotic than Lawful in her outlook. People seem to think that the fact that she's a dwarf must mean she's lawful, but she seems to me to be very clearly a person who values her own individuality and personal decisions than the dictates of society.

Minrah cannot be Chaotic by the laws of leadership and cohort. She could be Neutral good. From the SRD

Cohort Level
The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of a character’s Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level. A character can try to attract a cohort of a particular race, class, and alignment. The cohort’s alignment may not be opposed to the leader’s alignment on either the law-vs-chaos or good-vs-evil axis, and the leader takes a Leadership penalty if he recruits a cohort of an alignment different from his own.