Berserk (manga) [RIP Miura Kentarou]

[danzibr]

"He died doing what he wanted, no matter what, right? I bet he was happy."

For those unaware, the creator of Berserk, Miura Kentarou, passed away on 6 May 2021, at the age of 54. Rest in peace.

Original post:
Dunno if people have been keeping up, Berserk is out up to chapter 363.

Spoiler: Recent stuff

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As we already knew (pretty sure?), King Gaiseric used to have the berserker armor. Unsure exactly when he got it, maybe after uniting Midland, definitely before the eclipse we see in chapter 362, where his lover presumably dies/is mortally wounded/something (based on in chapter 363 the talk of the knight's beloved sleeping).

Anyway, in 362, we see an eclipse with 5 baddies, but only Void is familiar (this is the real new bit of info). Since eclipses happen every 216 years, the timeline would be...
-The eclipse in chapter 362, where King Gaiseric's love is mortally wounded and King Gaiseric is "consumed by the berserker." My bet is Void was "born" for this eclipse, and others have speculated (I believe correctly) he was the seer/holy man/whatever in Gaiseric's time
-Henceforth, King Gaiseric (now Skull Knight) is off shwacking god hand members
-216 years later, one of Slan, Ubik, Conrad is born/made/whatever
-216 years later, one of Slan, Ubik, Conrad is born/made/whatever
-216 years later, one of Slan, Ubik, Conrad is born/made/whatever
-216 years later, Griffith -> Femto

And there's also the possibility that there were more eclipses, and an intermediate god hand member was made, then Skull Knight killed it. I doubt this though, since I seem to recall King Gaiseric uniting Midland ~1k years ago... well actually, the 4 216's only give 864, it would be totally reasonable for there to be 1 more eclipse in there.

... not that much of this is new...

[GloatingSwine]

Spoiler

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It's possible that the membership of the Godhand has changed more than three times since they destroyed Gaeseric's capital. Notably when Griffith ascends to become Femto there are only four but there were five when we see them in 362. So one has gone missing in the intervening time. It's possible there has been an eclipse which "failed" and did not give rise to a new member either due to a failure to provide a sufficient sacrifice or the intervention of Skull Knight.

Void certainly seems to be the one with the long term plan. Slan is clearly driven by id and we never really see much out of Conrad or Ubik.

[Anteros]

Are they still on the boat?

[DeadMech]

Are they still on the boat?

No. They're hanging around on Little Witch Academia elf island now.

[Rynjin]

Are they still on the boat?

They got off the boat over half a decade ago at this point.

[danzibr]

Spoiler

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It's possible that the membership of the Godhand has changed more than three times since they destroyed Gaeseric's capital. Notably when Griffith ascends to become Femto there are only four but there were five when we see them in 362. So one has gone missing in the intervening time. It's possible there has been an eclipse which "failed" and did not give rise to a new member either due to a failure to provide a sufficient sacrifice or the intervention of Skull Knight.

Void certainly seems to be the one with the long term plan. Slan is clearly driven by id and we never really see much out of Conrad or Ubik.

Interesting... yeah, I could totally believe that.

Are they still on the boat?

Sounds like you have a lot to read!

[-D-]

Are they still on the boat?

They are not.

They got off the boat over half a decade ago at this point.

At first I was like, nice joke brosefski.

Then I read:
https://berserk.fandom.com/wiki/Episode_343_(Manga)

Oh.
Oh!
Oh...

Spoiler

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It's possible that the membership of the Godhand has changed more than three times since they destroyed Gaeseric's capital. Notably when Griffith ascends to become Femto there are only four but there were five when we see them in 362. So one has gone missing in the intervening time. It's possible there has been an eclipse which "failed" and did not give rise to a new member either due to a failure to provide a sufficient sacrifice or the intervention of Skull Knight.

Spoiler

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Three times? Well, it looks like SK managed to kill all but void Unless Slan and Ubiq evolved or something.

The biggest shame about Berserk is that it never got an anime adaptation. If you point to Berserk 2016, I'll note, that's not an anime adaptation, it's a CGI abomination. Old Berserk anime doesn't count either, since it ends at bleakest, darkest Berserk chapter it could end.

[Berserk Mecha]

Thing is, I'm trying to guess at where the story is going at this point and I'm coming up clueless. They can only bum around on elf island for so long. ...I hope. And we don't know what Griffith is planning with his new kingdom, either. I suspected that he was going to sacrifice the whole kingdom in an even bigger and bloodier ritual but then why go through the effort of trying to reform everything and introduce literacy to the peasants and whatnot?

I mean, I'm sure that Guts and Griffith have to have another confrontation with each other. That's inevitable. But as to what that confrontation is going to solve, (aside from a grudge) I dunno.

[-D-]

Thing is, I'm trying to guess at where the story is going at this point and I'm coming up clueless. They can only bum around on elf island for so long. ...I hope. And we don't know what Griffith is planning with his new kingdom, either. I suspected that he was going to sacrifice the whole kingdom in an even bigger and bloodier ritual but then why go through the effort of trying to reform everything and introduce literacy to the peasants and whatnot?

I mean, I'm sure that Guts and Griffith have to have another confrontation with each other. That's inevitable. But as to what that confrontation is going to solve, (aside from a grudge) I dunno.

Thinks to keep in mind:

• Time passes slower on elf/faerie island.
• Since the Fantasia arc started, the power of magic users has multiplied several times. Now a single magic user is more of a threat to Griffith than any human nation ever will.
• Griffith wants his ideal empire protected.
• Griffith is a psychopath and nothing will ever truly satisfy him.
• Inhabiting body of Gut's child.

The clash between him and Guts is a matter of chapters IMO. And I think Griffith will "win" the battle for elf island but lose the war.

Spoiler: Forbidden chapter spoiler

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I'm not sure what Griffith is planning, but seeing how he's powered by Idea of Evil, it probably a mass atrocity.

That said, what could the Idea of Evil really want? In my wildest hallucinations - Idea of Good. Or at least something to oppose it.

[Anonymouswizard]

The biggest shame about Berserk is that it never got an anime adaptation. If you point to Berserk 2016, I'll note, that's not an anime adaptation, it's a CGI abomination. Old Berserk anime doesn't count either, since it ends at bleakest, darkest Berserk chapter it could end.

In other news there are no true Scotsmen.

The original Berserk anime is an anime adaptation, but it's only an adaptation of part of the manga and unfortunately needed to end either sightly later in the story (around Guts getting the Dragonslayer) or start with the Golden Age arc instead of hazing a one episode version of Black Swordsman. As for the second anime, while it is CGI, and the TV version at least was low quality (I hear that the Blu-ray version was better), as far as I know 'anime' is just the Japanese word for animation, so disqualifying it in the grounds of evolution m animation technique or quality seems to weird.

And thus thread has reminded me that I need to continue with the manga. Has Casca had her mind restored yet?

[GloatingSwine]

In other news there are no true Scotsmen.

The original Berserk anime is an anime adaptation, but it's only an adaptation of part of the manga and unfortunately needed to end either sightly later in the story (around Guts getting the Dragonslayer) or start with the Golden Age arc instead of hazing a one episode version of Black Swordsman. As for the second anime, while it is CGI, and the TV version at least was low quality (I hear that the Blu-ray version was better), as far as I know 'anime' is just the Japanese word for animation, so disqualifying it in the grounds of evolution m animation technique or quality seems to weird.

And thus thread has reminded me that I need to continue with the manga. Has Casca had her mind restored yet?

Spoiler

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Yes. Casca is back. Still affected by what happens and has a panic attack when she sees Guts, but her mind is restored.

In a chapter or two (so maybe this time next year) we'll find out at least a little what the moonchild is all about I think, since he's just come back for the first time since that happened.

[DeadMech]

And thus thread has reminded me that I need to continue with the manga. Has Casca had her mind restored yet?

Spoiler: Casca's mind. But really you should just catch up on the manga.

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Mostly. She's had her memories pieced together in the mindscape and has retained her knowledge of events when she was an amnesiac. With some possible exceptions that she's still repressing. And now Guts is the trigger for those them so she has a panic attack when she sees him. Just when you think they might have a chance to be happy. It's a somewhat recent development and I suppose we'll find out just how much awful things Casca really remembers soon enough what with their kid/Griffith about to show up on the island.

[Rynjin]

In other news there are no true Scotsmen.

The original Berserk anime is an anime adaptation, but it's only an adaptation of part of the manga and unfortunately needed to end either sightly later in the story (around Guts getting the Dragonslayer) or start with the Golden Age arc instead of hazing a one episode version of Black Swordsman. As for the second anime, while it is CGI, and the TV version at least was low quality (I hear that the Blu-ray version was better), as far as I know 'anime' is just the Japanese word for animation, so disqualifying it in the grounds of evolution m animation technique or quality seems to weird.

And thus thread has reminded me that I need to continue with the manga. Has Casca had her mind restored yet?

Eh. Going out of your way to defend Berserk 2016 seems like a lot of wasted effort. Honestly, it really is true that calling it an "adaptation" is generous at best. It was made by a bunch of amateurs looking to make a quick buck and a name for themselves, and it shows. It's no more a proper adaptation than a fan film, and most of those have better production quality and more talent behind them than the 2016 anime got.

The CG animated films, while far from perfect, at least show some competency and respect for the source material, and so are deserving of the title at least.

[Anonymouswizard]

Eh. Going out of your way to defend Berserk 2016 seems like a lot of wasted effort. Honestly, it really is true that calling it an "adaptation" is generous at best. It was made by a bunch of amateurs looking to make a quick buck and a name for themselves, and it shows. It's no more a proper adaptation than a fan film, and most of those have better production quality and more talent behind them than the 2016 anime got.

The CG animated films, while far from perfect, at least show some competency and respect for the source material, and so are deserving of the title at least.

It might be a bad adaptation, but it's still an adaptation. I was more pointing out that it's more of a 'no true Scotsman' argument, a bad adaptation is still an adaptation.

The 2016 Berserk anime was bad, I'm not denying that. But it's like the people who ignore the significant parts of Starship Troopers that made it into the film, albeit with their context and needing often changed. Yes, the Golden Age films, while somewhat rushed, are probably the best adaptation the manga has, sorry I'll always have a soft spot for the first anime (being my first exposure to the franchise).

[-D-]

In other news there are no true Scotsmen.

I was discussing my opinion. It's a fallacy, I was expressing an opinion, not a universal truth. If you Berserk 2016 an adaptation, you're not wrong, but you aren't right either.

The original Berserk anime is an anime adaptation, but it's only an adaptation...

Of the darkest part of Berserk. It's like animating FMA Brotherhood up to the time Alphonse and Elric killed the chimera girl.

As for the second anime, while it is CGI, and the TV version at least was low quality

I've watched the Berserk movie in the theater at some anime con. The movie which is better than the series was a ****ing disaster. The tv series is the anime equivalent of CGI Chernobyl.

And no, they can't fix it easily in BD, since, their CGI animation is just ****-tier.

It might be a bad adaptation, but it's still an adaptation. I was more pointing out that it's more of a 'no true Scotsman' argument, a bad adaptation is still an adaptation.

My problem was referring to that garbage as anything other than a botched cash grab, exploiting the desperation of Berserk fans.

And by your logic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_H..._Gim%C3%A9nez) of Martinez is the same as work of the """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""re storer"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Giménez.

****. I might be going too easy on Potato Jesus. Comparing this panel of Berserk to whatever the **** this is, is like comparing the combined body of work of Michelangelo and Rafaelo to Potato Jesus, that was dipped in tar. And set on fire. Then fired into the Sun. And Sun was then collapsed into a blackhole. And then the blackhole is ripped to shreds using Dark Energy. And the Dark Energy was harvested by.. *dies from exhaustion of convolution.*

[Lurkmoar]

Funnily enough they could have gone much darker and included Wyald and his band.

I imagine seeing how much of Eclipse was left in, it was cut for time, not necessarily content. I'll say this in defense of the old animated version: it's a good adaptation to a point of the Golden Arc. If they included Guts going up against the count, it would have been much harder to sympathize with him. Also, very good soundtrack, except for the opening and ending themes. I know a few people that like them, but they don't do much for me.

I am very hopeful that my future grandchildren will finish reading Berserk.

[-D-]

Funnily enough they could have gone much darker and included Wyald and his band.

I don't think they could have done that, without having the rating of what is essentially porn. (Was that MA?)

Because if Wyland liked two things it was Gorn.

I am very hopeful that my future grandchildren will finish reading Berserk.

Do not worry. Once we have modified Tarn Adams to continue his work on Dwarf Fortress forever. Miura is next. Hopefully, by the time your grandchildren are alive, that technology will be widely available.

[Anonymouswizard]

I love words being put in my mouth.

Again, I'm not arguing that the 2016 series was good (the first series on the other hand? A very good adaptation of the Golden Age arc even if it really needed one more episode to show Guts surviving the Eclipse). I'm saying that arbitrary criteria are being used to exclude members from the group. You are free to have whatever views you want on the quality of the work, but claiming that the anime adaptations are not anime adaptations is just incorrect, quality aside they are an attempt to tell the same story in a different medium (mostly, I'll admit that each series leaves out elements of the sections they adapt).

[danzibr]

Man, gotta say... and I imagine lots of people in this thread would agree with me, I'd like to see the series done A-Z (well, what's out currently) in anime form. A series, movies, whatever. I watched the old show before reading the manga, had no clue about the aforementioned Wyald. Would have to be super long to do the manga justice.

[-D-]

I'm saying that arbitrary criteria are being used to exclude members from the group.

Exclude members from what group? People, that agree with me? Audible GASP!

Anyway. If you express positive thoughts about Berserk 2016, means mine and your tastes in anime are completely incompatible and I can safely disregard what you say about that. Not everything, just that one.

It's not impossible to match or make a better adaptation than the manga e.g. Demon Slayer or JoJo Golden Wind. It's just a matter of effort. Berserk being **** is down to people working on it being uninspired, so yeah, I'm gonna judge studio on that.

Man, gotta say... and I imagine lots of people in this thread would agree with me, I'd like to see the series done A-Z (well, what's out currently) in anime form. A series, movies, whatever. I watched the old show before reading the manga, had no clue about the aforementioned Wyald. Would have to be super long to do the manga justice.

Yep. I'd be happy with anime that's even half or quarter as good, as good as the manga. Manga art is just hard to match, without burning twice as much money like others.

[Anonymouswizard]

Exclude members from what group? People, that agree with me? Audible GASP!

Anyway. If you express positive thoughts about Berserk 2016, means mine and your tastes in anime are completely incompatible and I can safely disregard what you say about that. Not everything, just that one.

It's not impossible to match or make a better adaptation than the manga e.g. Demon Slayer or JoJo Golden Wind. It's just a matter of effort. Berserk being **** is down to people being uninspired, so yeah, I'm gonna judge studio on that.

The group of 'anime adaptations of Berserk', which through arbitrary criteria you have decided has no members because you don't consider them True Scotsmen.

Please, quote exactly where I said I thought the 2016 anime was good. You'll have a hard time finding it, because I never said that. The closest I have got was saying that I hear that the Blu-ray had better quality animation. I have, however, said that the first anime was good and stand by that, even if it's not as good as the manga.

You are the one claiming that the adaptation of (part of) the story of Berserk isn't an adaptation, or maybe isn't an anime, and I'd love to see a justification of those classics. Instead I've had prior to tell me to stop defending the above because it's bad, when I've outright admitted that I assure with that assessment. But as you're putting days words into my mouth, can you please stop doing that and actually defend your position. You claimed that Berserk 2016 wasn't an anime adaptation of the Berserk manga, can you please tell me how it isn't either a) and adaptation of the story of Berserk, or b) an animated TV show(/movie) made in Japan.

Nothing to do with the quality, nothing to do with how much the people at the studio cared.


Now if you're trying to argue that there has been no good or complete anime adaptation of Berserk, well that's an entirely different thing to what you actually said. The be second is undeniable, and the first is debatable because I at least enjoyed the first anime series and found it to be despite it's limitations. But it's not what you said so please, explain how Berserk has literally no wine adaptations. Not how they're bad, how they don't exist.

[-D-]

The group of 'anime adaptations of Berserk', which through arbitrary criteria you have decided has no members because you don't consider them True Scotsmen.

Wow. You really took that comment as some kind of logical claim, rather than exaggerated opinion.

You are the one claiming that the adaptation of (part of) the story of Berserk isn't an adaptation...

Nothing to do with the quality, nothing to do with how much the people at the studio cared.

It's not that. Say someone watched Berserk 2016 and really liked it. If they ask me for recommendation, I'd probably point them to Ex Arm or Overlord S3 since they obviously like ****ty CGI.

Saying someone liked Berserk manga. What do I recommend then? Abruptly finished anime from 20 years ago or the 5 year old butchering of Berserk copyright. They are probably better served by a PS Berserk game.

[danzibr]

Yep. I'd be happy with anime that's even half or quarter as good, as good as the manga. Manga art is just hard to match, without burning twice as much money like others.

Oh yeah, art wise it’d be about impossible to do the manga justice. I’m thinking no omissions.

[-D-]

Oh yeah, art wise it’d be about impossible to do the manga justice. I’m thinking no omissions.

Well, not impossible. You'd need a passionate and talented team. Basically, save your budget and keep most scenes ok, so you can spend it to make a few scenes gorgeous as ****. And if you go for 3D, just hire ufotable. No other studio could do Berserk 3D justice.

And make the R-rated (or NC-17) scenes OVA or something, you can't emit that **** in regular TV anyway.

[GloatingSwine]

You could probably do old Berserk.

You couldn't do modern Berserk after Miura switched to digital production, because suddenly there were no limits on the amount of detail he could put in a panel.

That's one of the reasons there's only 2-3 chapters a year, because if the filligree on the armour of the third knight from the left in the fourth file on the top of the hill half a mile away isn't absolutely perfect, it's not done yet.

[-D-]

You could probably do old Berserk.

You couldn't do modern Berserk after Miura switched to digital production, because suddenly there were no limits on the amount of detail he could put in a panel.

That's one of the reasons there's only 2-3 chapters a year, because if the filligree on the armour of the third knight from the left in the fourth file on the top of the hill half a mile away isn't absolutely perfect, it's not done yet.

Miura uses digital production? Any sources for that? I'm curious.

I mean, you could do it to an extent. You save budget for few key scenes. Add more Puck scenes that are super easy to draw. E.g. One Punch Man season 1 is amazing, and it has a comparable budget to other animes. You can kinda see it, one simpler scene where they saved their budget.

That said, I don't expect 1-to-1 representation of Miura's work. But something that's sufficiently grand in comparison to other anime. Basically, less of a carbon copy and more of something that evokes the same feelings.

[GloatingSwine]

Miura uses digital production? Any sources for that? I'm curious.

Yeah. Switched over to full digital production in 2015 and basically one of his biggest challenges is having the discipline to stop adding details.

The really scary thing is that Miura has the same number of assistants as Eiichiro Oda...

[Anteros]

They got off the boat over half a decade ago at this point.

My previous experiences with Berserk would lead me to believe that's like 3 chapters ago. Berserk is in the same category as things like GoT, Dresden Files, or other assorted media where I simply don't believe that the author has any intention of actually attempting to finish their story.

I actually like Berserk and hope it gets an appropriate ending...I just don't think there's any chance at all that it will, and I'm not going to invest in it again just to be left on another cliffhanger.

[Rynjin]

My previous experiences with Berserk would lead me to believe that's like 3 chapters ago. Berserk is in the same category as things like GoT, Dresden Files, or other assorted media where I simply don't believe that the author has any intention of actually attempting to finish their story.

I actually like Berserk and hope it gets an appropriate ending...I just don't think there's any chance at all that it will, and I'm not going to invest in it again just to be left on another cliffhanger.

Berserk has been updating relatively consistently on a monthly basis for quite a while now.

Also not sure what your beef is with the Dresden Files update schedule; Jim Butcher releases books at a fairly fast clip. Unless you just mean it has no end in sight? Serialized, episodic, ongoing?

[GloatingSwine]

Berserk has been updating relatively consistently on a monthly basis for quite a while now.

I want to live on the planet you're from.

Berserk has had one chapter so far this year. A whole three last year and two the year before that.