Captain's shield

[dps]

And not only did he invent them he could do these tricks better than anyone else because he was just that awesome. Even other super soldiers (in the comics) weren’t able to do everything Steve just naturally figured out.

Yeah, we have to keep in mind that Steve's a clever guy. Remember the scene in the movie where he's the first guy to ever get to ride back to camp by getting the flag off the flagpole? That was before he became a supersoldier, and he was physically the weakest guy there. He got the flag not by doing something no one else could do, but by using his mind to figure out something that anyone would have been able to do if they had thought of it.

[M1982]

The only think I disliked about MCU Cap...way too strong. Supposed to be peak human. Not flinging guys 15 feet in the air while treading water (yeah, maybe standing on a ladder, but still).

The shield really is a black box. Can completely reduce the kinetic energy of an object striking it...but can also rebound off an object with nearly perfect transfer of energy. Almost seems sentient!





I think the object must have composition that *allows* it to happen, but the angles, speed, rotation and force are supplied by the athlete. Sam had to learn the skill. Hence the 3-tree setup and all of the "fail" time.



I think a lot of athletes would suggest it is more a product of skill and training than strength (assuming, of course, you have sufficient strength to manipulate the object and allow your skill to matter.

All in all, I appreciate the "training sequence" so we could pretend he built up the skill as opposed to just grabbing it and being able to pull off the triple-rail-masse-two-goon-combo-back-to-his-arm trick.

Also had no issue with him holding his own in 1-on-1 combat with Karli's super soldiered goons. As mentioned in the other thread, Steve, Bucky and Walker (post-SS) should have been able to tear through those guys because they all have extensive hand to hand training (and years and years of experience against people capable of killing them), while the Flag Smashers are rando-kids with chemical enhancement to base stats. Sam's training was less HtH focused, and probably not nearly as many actual encounters, but his Avengers time should have helped up his game.

- M

I am not talking about his skill in doing all those trick throws, but wonder about the force of impact he can muster.

I assumed the shield hit as hard as it did due to being thrown by a super soldier putting superhuman strength behind the throw.

Now an ordinary human may be able to learn the same throwing tricks and someone by bouncing the shield of three corners just like cap did. But the force whith which it finally impacts the target should be much less due to being thrown with the force of mere human strength rather than superhuman strength

[Ramza00]

No one going to talk about Starks magic nanites which can do anything the plot demands including incorporating pym particles for obviously there are more nanites when the suit is formed than the small hole in his chest and decal he taps that take them out and turn them on.

Or how Iron Man 3 extremis the humans regrow body parts by turning air into fire and fire into flesh. Someone is lacking an arm and suddenly it regrows like it is the lizard?

[lowfyr]

The only problem I have that the higher-ups are a little to careless with the new shield bearer training with it.
I mean how easy does it is to loose more or less important body parts like fingers or the head using it without really knowing how?

[Peelee]

No one going to talk about Starks magic nanites which can do anything the plot demands including incorporating pym particles for obviously there are more nanites when the suit is formed than the small whole in his chest and decal he taps that take them out and turn them on.

Or how Iron Man 3 extremis the humans regrow body parts by turning air into fire and fire into flesh. Someone is lacking an arm and suddenly it regrows like it is the lizard?

In addition to the previous "vibranium does whatever we want it to", most advanced science in comics boil down to that same premise. The writers don't have advanced degrees in applied mathematics or engineering. They start with "I want this to happen" and the technology is created to fit that.

Or, in short, it does whatever they want it to.

[Rynjin]

The only problem I have that the higher-ups are a little to careless with the new shield bearer training with it.
I mean how easy does it is to loose more or less important body parts like fingers or the head using it without really knowing how?

...You might have a valid point if they were tossing razor discs or something, but it's just a shield. And one without a sharpened edge at that.

[Peelee]

...You might have a valid point if they were tossing razor discs or something, but it's just a shield. And one without a sharpened edge at that.

Back in the early days of Kerbal Space Program, i heard someone reveal a physics lesson that is endlessly useful when applied to other areas: "Heck, even a brick'll fly if you get it going fast enough."

Shield got an edge. Even non-sharpened, it hits with enough force at the wrong place, and it sucks to be you. Even if it doesn't cut a limb off, it could break a bone.

In fact, from what little I've seen of superhero movies in general, the hospitals must be massive.

[Keltest]

Back in the early days of Kerbal Space Program, i heard someone reveal a physics lesson that is endlessly useful when applied to other areas: "Heck, even a brick'll fly if you get it going fast enough."

Shield got an edge. Even non-sharpened, it hits with enough force at the wrong place, and it sucks to be you. Even if it doesn't cut a limb off, it could break a bone.

In fact, from what little I've seen of superhero movies in general, the hospitals must be massive.

From the way he uses it, Cap absolutely breaks bones on normal unarmored humans he hits. Dismemberment seems somewhat less likely just because its not really going to fast as to turn its blunt edge into a cutting edge. MAYBE if they were already backed against a wall or something and ate all of the force in a sudden stop all at once.

[Tyndmyr]

The whole super soldier (or any super really) vs. normal human in the MCU shifts and morphs however the story currently needs it.

Given some feats that super soldiers have been shown to perform Sam was holding his own way too good against them.

Hell, forget the super soldiers, how the hell did he hold up a full armored truck?

Even if you say it's all the jets, his physical body is between, with his arms carrying that force. A full armored truck can easily weigh like 50k lbs. Even if this one is substantially less, it's still at least many, many tons, and he's catching that and lifting that back up onto the road.

That'd be a significant feat of strength for someone *with* super soldier serum, and is actually more impressive than Cap stopping a heli from taking off.

Sam's basically a super soldier as depicted here.

...You might have a valid point if they were tossing razor discs or something, but it's just a shield. And one without a sharpened edge at that.

Cap shredded an aircraft with it. If it can go through steel, it can go through fingers, I guess?

Not sure I have any consistent answer for the shield in general, though. I tried for a while there, but by this point, it's pretty futile.

[Peelee]

From the way he uses it, Cap absolutely breaks bones on normal unarmored humans he hits. Dismemberment seems somewhat less likely just because its not really going to fast as to turn its blunt edge into a cutting edge. MAYBE if they were already backed against a wall or something and ate all of the force in a sudden stop all at once.

Imean non-Cap character throwing it and catching it agian.catch it wrong, that hand's out of commission for a good bit.

As for people getting hit with it... Does it bounce off them? Bouncing physics is interesting, and something is going to give a hell of a lot if that shield is bouncing off a body.

[Keltest]

Imean non-Cap character throwing it and catching it agian.catch it wrong, that hand's out of commission for a good bit.

As for people getting hit with it... Does it bounce off them? Bouncing physics is interesting, and something is going to give a hell of a lot if that shield is bouncing off a body.

Yes, and that something is probably their ribs if they arent well protected.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyrant
Steve left the shield with Tony at the end of Civil War and didn't get it back until after the five ear gap in Endgame.

Good catch, of course you’re correct on that.

So, where did Cap get the pristine shield from at the end of Endgame, after we saw Thanos break his original shield apart?

Originally Posted by Ramza00
Or how Iron Man 3 extremis the humans regrow body parts by turning air into fire and fire into flesh. Someone is lacking an arm and suddenly it regrows like it is the lizard?

One of many reasons I simply...don’t acknowledge that movie.

[Tyrant]

Good catch, of course you’re correct on that.

So, where did Cap get the pristine shield from at the end of Endgame, after we saw Thanos break his original shield apart?

I assumed he got it from the other timeline and that we aren't supposed to put much thought into it beyond that. Don't ask questions like "But when/where in the other timeline did he get it?" or "But won't that cause the very thing he just tried to stop by putting everything back where it goes?" I suppose a more satisfying answer would be that he was able to tell T'Challa who he was at some point in the past/alternate timeline and asked him to make another one for him. Or even that he told T'Challa his plan and just asked to fix the existing one and he grabbed it before talking to Sam. This is probably more thought than the filmmakers put into it.

[Peelee]

Yes, and that something is probably their ribs if they arent well protected.

Ribs tend to not have much give. You can tell by the way they snap instead.

[Tyndmyr]

One of many reasons I simply...don’t acknowledge that movie.

IM 3 was a particularly weak entry. The "everyone hold hands" solution to gravity was infuriating as well.

[dps]

Cap shredded an aircraft with it. If it can go through steel, it can go through fingers, I guess?

A bird can really mess up a plane if it accidentally flies into it, but isn't going to tear your fingers off just by accidentally flying into them.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

So, where did Cap get the pristine shield from at the end of Endgame, after we saw Thanos break his original shield apart?

I admit I’m reaching here, but didn’t Happy mention ‘Cap’s prototype shield’ as one of the things they were packing up in Spiderman: Homecoming? Maybe Tony had been working on a backup shield before the Civil War mess and that was it.

[Kyberwulf]

I had questions about some of Falcons durability. Until a friend pointed out that his suit is made from Wakanda magic metal. I can kind of buy armor protecting someone like that.. but somehow augmenting a normals ability to chuck something comparable to a super soldier?

[Peelee]

A bird can really mess up a plane if it accidentally flies into it, but isn't going to tear your fingers off just by accidentally flying into them.

Depends on the relative speeds and what the softer thing is. Just ask Fabio.

I had questions about some of Falcons durability. Until a friend pointed out that his suit is made from Wakanda magic metal.

"This is literally the rarest metal on earth. Arguably in the universe, since we never see it out in space."
Oh, so this'll be the only time I'll ever see it, then?
"Oh, no, like a bunch of people you interact with will have stuff made out of it."

[The Glyphstone]

Depends on the relative speeds and what the softer thing is. Just ask Fabio.


"This is literally the rarest metal on earth. Arguably in the universe, since we never see it out in space."
Oh, so this'll be the only time I'll ever see it, then?
"Oh, no, like a bunch of people you interact with will have stuff made out of it."

Sorta like how more Kryptonite has been used against Superman than would theoretically equal the mass of Krypton?

[Hopeless]

Has anyone considered Cap actually trained Sam with how to throw his shield?

I mean they worked together and it wouldn't stretch things that he actually trained Sam now wouldn't it?

[Rater202]

Sorta like how more Kryptonite has been used against Superman than would theoretically equal the mass of Krypton?

...I don't think that's technically true. Krypton was a pretty big fricking planet. Canonically had a higher gravity and more atmospheric pressure too so it would have had much greater mass.

Beyond that, you've gotta keep in mind that Superman isn't always able to destroy the Kryptonite he encounters, so some of that is probably the same Kryptonite being retrieved and recycled.

Also, it's been established that Kryptonite can be synthesized from other materials and that it's the radiation signature tha'ts the problem, not the mineral itself, so in many cases the kryptonite being used was never actually part of Krypton.

There's also the possibility that while Kryptonite is traditionally considered to be part of Krypton's mass that it is in fact a naturally occurring element and can be found in different environments. Or that it's simply a classification of elements since it's known that different colors of Kryptonite have different properties: Green weakens him, but red causes his powers to go out of whack in unpredictable ways, gold removes his powers long term, blue only affects Bizzaro, and so on, and not all of those elements may have been originally from krypton.

Back to Vibranium, while it doesn't come up in the movies, in the comics it's more common in space. Not super common everyone has some common, it's still valuable, but it does naturally occur in some places.

and like Kryptonite, if can be made synthetically or recycled from other vibranium objects.

[Kyberwulf]

It was only the "rarest" metal on earth because the only people that had it controlled how much got out. Also they just figured out how to harvest more of it. There was a literal mountain of it in Black Panter.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Back to Vibranium, while it doesn't come up in the movies, in the comics it's more common in space.

I’m going to nitpick: the big stockpile in MCU Wakanda explicitly came from a meteorite, so I think we can safely say this is true in the movies too.

[Rater202]

I’m going to nitpick: the big stockpile in MCU Wakanda explicitly came from a meteorite, so I think we can safely say this is true in the movies too.

In the movies, the meteorite seems to be literally the only source of naturally occurring vibranium in the universe.

[Gallowglass]

I admit I’m reaching here, but didn’t Happy mention ‘Cap’s prototype shield’ as one of the things they were packing up in Spiderman: Homecoming? Maybe Tony had been working on a backup shield before the Civil War mess and that was it.

For me, there is really only one probable explanation for the shield at the end of Endgame.

Universe A cap, is our cap. his shield is badly damaged. He takes the badly damaged universe A shield with him when he time travels to return all the infinity stones and Mjolinor to thier proper place in universe B|C|D.

universe B|C|D by the way, are the universe(s) that they harvested the replacement stones out of during the endgame time caper. It may have been one alternate universe, it may have been three (or four) depending on how you interpret it all.

After returning the stones, Cap either stays in universe B|C|D or a new alternate E. For the sake of this explanation, I'll call it Universe E.

Cap grows old with Peggy. At some point before intersecting with modern day, he must travel to the arctic, dig up the plane where Universe E Cap is entombed and salvage the Universe E shield. This is pretty awkward, as he probably leaves Universe E cap frozen. Who knows.

If you want to be charitable, perhaps he goes to Universe E Wakanda and convinces them to re-forge the Universe A shield, thus allowing the Universe E Cap to get un-tombed with shield at some point. I think its more likely, he just gets the shield from universe E.

Also, at some point in Universe E, he works with Universe E Tony or Universe E Hank or someone to make a pym-particle time machine like the one they used to send him back from Universe A.

He uses this time machine to travel to Universe A making sure to return in such a way to not interfere with his departure and hands over the Universe E shield (or re-forged Universe A shield) to Universe A Falcon.

Assumedly, he then returns to his point in time in Universe E to continue living his life there.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
I admit I’m reaching here, but didn’t Happy mention ‘Cap’s prototype shield’ as one of the things they were packing up in Spiderman: Homecoming?

Curse those corporate complications, can’t easily check on Disney+.

However, there is a prototype shield in Iron Man 2, which apparently never saw use, so Happy’s comment may have been referring to that.

Originally Posted by Hopeless
Has anyone considered Cap actually trained Sam with how to throw his shield?

I mean they worked together and it wouldn't stretch things that he actually trained Sam now wouldn't it?

Not sure when that would have happened, or why either of them would’ve felt the need. Sam didn’t train Cap to use his parawings, even though Cap always seemed to need a lift.

Also, if Cap had trained Sam to throw the shield, it’s likely that Sam would’ve been less reluctant to accept it at the end of Endgame, since training with it would’ve helped establish a personal connection and the expectation it might one day pass to him. Instead we see the exact opposite, which argues against any prior training.

Originally Posted by Rater202
In the movies, the meteorite seems to be literally the only source of naturally occurring vibranium in the universe.

Well, based on a sample size of one planet. For all we know Mars is peppered with the stuff.

[Peelee]

Sorta like how more Kryptonite has been used against Superman than would theoretically equal the mass of Krypton?

Aye.

...I don't think that's technically true. Krypton was a pretty big fricking planet. Canonically had a higher gravity and more atmospheric pressure too so it would have had much greater mass.

Yeah but even if we ignore orbital mechanics (which we pretty much need to), imagine a ball of arbitrary size made of a million particles. Imagine a straight line drawn between each particle and the center of the ball. If that line extends out forever, then those lines are the paths each particle will take on expansion. After traveling for a million or so miles, each particle will be pretty far apart.

And then, to misquote Douglas Adams, you may think it's a long way to a point a million miles off but that's just peanuts compared to space.

Super simplified, but we should have a piece of Kryptonite. Maybe a handful of pieces, if we got super lucky. But it should be rare as all get out.

Back to Vibranium, while it doesn't come up in the movies, in the comics it's more common in space.

To be fair, everything is much more common in space, if only because of the aforementioned how-stupidly-big-it-is.

Although if we want to be silly about it (which I am always in favor of), we could misquote more Douglas Adams and say there is a finite amount of vibranium and an infinite amount of space and any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average amount of vibranium in the Universe can be said to be zero.

[Kyberwulf]

Anyone considered Cap has the Stones. He could have used one of them to repair the shield himself. Eh.. that's it. I will say thats Canon and leave it that. Cap used a infinity stone to fix the shield and make it working that

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kyberwulf
Cap used a infinity stone to fix the shield and make it working that….

“Whosoever be he worthy, shall haveth the power of Steve!”