Which SciFi ttrpg has the largest player base?

[TyGuy]

Not sure how this can even be deduced with metrics. Perhaps book sales... Maybe anecdotal and observational input might be insightful.

What do you think the top dog is at the moment? Top 3?

[Mastikator]

Starfinder

I have literally no evidence to support this

Maybe Starwars also?

[MoiMagnus]

The only two ttrpgs that take place in space that I've really heard of are Warhamer 40k and FFG's Starwars. That's also the only two that I've seen advertisement for, and it's probably because they both try to recruit peoples from outside the ttrpg community.

I mean, technically, I've "heard" about Starfinder, but nobody talked about it to me ever, so the only thing I know is "Pathfinder in space!"

As for numbers, Roll20 does publish its statistics on a regular basis (https://blog.roll20.net/posts/the-or...eport-q2-2020/), and you can see that indeed, Warhamer, Starwars and Starfinder are all three in the top, though Warhamer's numbers include every variant (fantasy, 40k, etc).

[TyGuy]

I found this Roll20 data. Which I take with a massive grain of salt as it doesn't account for varying levels different systems are offline. It also has pretty big categories of "other" which may include systems with higher numbers than the lowest specific system in this table.

System	%
D&D 5e	52.9
Uncategorized	14.96
Call of Cthulhu	10.3
Pathfinder	3.69
Pathfinder 2e	1.58
Warhammer (fantasy, 40k, wrath & glory, etc.)	1.28
World of Darkness (Vampire, werewolf, etc)	1.14
D&D 3.5	1.02
Star Wars	0.72
Starfinder	0.66
Other games (everything else)	11.73

This data is from Q4 2020. In the previous year the ranks for sci-fi were Starfinder, Star Wars, Shadowrun. The three were pretty close to each other with 0.77, 0.67, 0.65. But in 2020 Shadowrun got bumped off and Star Wars pulled ahead of Starfinder.

But again, this is just Roll20 numbers so I'm only using this data to get a general idea. Would be nice if I could see how Numenera stacks up against Starfinder, Star Wars, and Shadowrun.

[Jason]

Traveller was top dog at one time, and Mongoose sure is producing a lot of books right now. Somebody besides me must be buying them.

[MoiMagnus]

Traveller was top dog at one time, and Mongoose sure is producing a lot of books right now. Somebody besides me must be buying them.

It is in the top 50 on roll20 (42th, to be precise).
https://blog.roll20.net/posts/the-or...users-edition/
So not bad, but lower than some other scifi games like "Stars without Numbers".

EDIT: Looking to the numbers, I'm surprise to see two RPGs exclusively in French in the top 50 (Chroniques Oubliées et Donjon de Naheulbeuk). I didn't realise the community of French players was that big.

[Democratus]

Traveller was top dog at one time, and Mongoose sure is producing a lot of books right now. Somebody besides me must be buying them.

I'm the other person buying them.

Traveller is the "D&D" of sci-fi games, with its roots deep in the 70s.

[Yora]

The only two ttrpgs that take place in space that I've really heard of are Warhamer 40k and FFG's Starwars. That's also the only two that I've seen advertisement for, and it's probably because they both try to recruit peoples from outside the ttrpg community.

Those were my two thoughts for possible contenders for space games.

Though both of them are pure fantasy with zero science.

[Jason]

I'm not sure Roll20 can be described as definitive. I've never used it.

[MoiMagnus]

I'm not sure Roll20 can be described as definitive. I've never used it.

It's not without biases.
But it's pretty difficult to find numbers about that many different RPGs condensed on the same platform.

I'd say it can prove that something is popular enough, but cannot prove that something is not popular, as the community could just be using other places (like real life).

[Anonymouswizard]

Ignoring Star Wars and Warrhammer 40,000 games, because deciding if they're fantasy (witch they are) or science fiction leads to arguments, my gut feeling would be Traveller, Starfinder, and Shadowrun. If we knock Starfinder and Shadowrun out for also being fantasy (not unreasonable) then my gut feeling would be Cyberpunk (either 2020 or Red) and something like Disapora would grab the next two slots. But again this is all gut feeling, I accept that Roll20 likely disagrees with this but it's also in no way definitive.

[MoiMagnus]

I've tried to spot all the RPGs that could be considered as Scifi and underline them (I might have missed some), but I will admit that a lot of them have a big fantastic component:


Major RPGs on Roll20:

D&D 5e -> 52.9%
Call of Cthulhu -> 10.3%
Pathfinder 1e -> 3.69%

Around 1% of the campaigns:

Pathfinder 2e
Warhammer
World of Darkness
D&D 3.5
Star Wars
Starfinder


Less then 0.50% of the campaigns:

Savage Worlds
Shadowrun
FATE
Das Shwarze Auge (The Dark Eye)


Less then 0.40% of the campaigns:

Blades in the Dark
Tormenta
inSANe
Apocalypse World System
Cyberpunk Red
Dungeon World
Year Zero Engine

Less then 0.25% of the campaigns:

GURPS
Pokemon
AD&D
Mutants and Masterminds
Cyberpunk 2020
LANCER RPG
D&D 4e
Velocity System
Stars Without Number
Cypher System Games
Chroniques Oubliées
13th Age RPG
Ironsworn
AEG
The Witcher
Dungeon Crawl Classics
d20 Modern
Start Trek Adventures
Shadow of the Demon Lord
Le Donjon de Naheulbeuk

Less than 0.1% of the campaigns:

Traveller
A Song of Ice and Fire RPG
Anima: Beyone Fantasy
Legend of the Five Rings
Monster of the Week
Powered by the Apocalypse
Tales from the Loop
Aventures
Delta Green
Basic Fantasy RPG
Anime Campaign
AGE System
City of Mist
Alice is Missing
Original D&D
Genesys
GUMSHOE
Exalted
Symbaroum
Splittermond
Old School Essentials
Burning Wheel
Palladium Games
Fallout
The One Ring
Mothership
RuneQuest
Coriolis

(And many more below 0.04%)

[Willie the Duck]

It's not without biases.
But it's pretty difficult to find numbers about that many different RPGs condensed on the same platform.
I'd say it can prove that something is popular enough, but cannot prove that something is not popular, as the community could just be using other places (like real life).

I've tried to spot all the RPGs that could be considered as Scifi and underline them (I might have missed some), but I will admit that a lot of them have a big fantastic component:
Major RPGs on Roll20:
<list>

This, to me, says that there have to be a lot of grognards out there not using Roll20. Traveller and Runequest (and GURPS) are well outside their heyday, but they each have some extensive followings.

[MoiMagnus]

This, to me, says that there have to be a lot of grognards out there not using Roll20. Traveller and Runequest (and GURPS) are well outside their heyday, but they each have some extensive followings.

I'd also note that 0.1% from Travellers is still 8000 players on Roll 20. Well enough to maintain a big player base.

[Jason]

I'd also note that 0.1% from Travellers is still 8000 players on Roll 20. Well enough to maintain a big player base.

I agree, it's hard to get accurate figures for games being played.
I don't think 8,000 players is enough to support the volume of materials that Mongoose is producing for Traveller right now, though. They are producing a lot of adventures, at $15 a pop for .pdfs (around $25 for the print versions), and only the referees (game masters) buy those typically. 8,000 players would mean what, 2,000 referees?

Most of their recent Kickstarters have had about 1,200 backers. What do you suppose is the ratio of "Kickstarter backers to players"?

[Mastikator]

I agree, it's hard to get accurate figures for games being played.
I don't think 8,000 players is enough to support the volume of materials that Mongoose is producing for Traveller right now, though. They are producing a lot of adventures, at $15 a pop for .pdfs (around $25 for the print versions), and only the referees (game masters) buy those typically. 8,000 players would mean what, 2,000 referees?

Most of their recent Kickstarters have had about 1,200 backers. What do you suppose is the ratio of "Kickstarter backers to players"?

To play something as niche as Traveler you're probably a die hard fan already, so the ratio is most likely very high :/

[Corsair14]

Just off hand my guess would be either Starfinder or Star Wars. D6 Star Wars by West End games still has a major following due to its open nature and ease of play plus despite being OOP for at least 1 decade if not two, all the books are available free and new stuff is continually added from its almost cult-like following. Heck we played a fairly long campaign over facebook chat during covid lockdowns and social distancing and had a great time since theater of the mind works really well. I don't know if the more modern square based tactical games can do the same thing effectively. Then you have the folks for some reason playing the FFG version and even some SAGA. On reddit some guys got together and made Star Wars 5E based off of DnD 5e and it looks very good and professional. So if you lump all the star wars games together I think you would find SW is by and large the biggest sci-fi game currently.

[Sol]

Then you have the folks for some reason playing the FFG version [of star wars rpg]

I'm a fan. The narrative dice system is pretty great, once you get used to it, which admittedly takes a while.

I definitely recommend it if the lack of sciency science doesn't bother you too much. I thought it would bother me more than it has. It's pretty easy to find games with 0 force content -- the galaxy is vast, after all.

It also...really doesn't cater itself very well to wanting or needing a map or power macros, which severely limit the usefulness of roll20 for it, even though there is a roll20 framework. I suspect that that significantly affects its representation within roll20's numbers. Every campaign i've played it in has been either play-by-post or run entirely within discord.

No idea what its player base might be, but its official discord has ~4k members, and there's multiple competing discord bots, multiple competing online character sheets, and multiple competing online databases under active development, which implies to me that it's got a decently healthy base.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm a fan. The narrative dice system is pretty great, once you get used to it, which admittedly takes a while.

I really, really didn't like it. While I admittedly only played two sessions, I just had too many rolls where I ended up with almost every die showing Advantage but no successes. On a nearly min-maxed engineering droid (I only had 5 Int when I should have gone for 6) trying to do basic tasks. Plus I do not like proprietary dice.

I', not saying that the game is terrible, but I got the dice system and just didn't like it one bit. I would have much rather been playing Stellar Adventures or Traveller with their simpler pass/fail systems. The game does what it's set out to do, but I really hate how it does it and would rather dig out Fate.

[Sol]

I really, really didn't like it. While I admittedly only played two sessions, I just had too many rolls where I ended up with almost every die showing Advantage but no successes. On a nearly min-maxed engineering droid (I only had 5 Int when I should have gone for 6) trying to do basic tasks. Plus I do not like proprietary dice.

I', not saying that the game is terrible, but I got the dice system and just didn't like it one bit. I would have much rather been playing Stellar Adventures or Traveller with their simpler pass/fail systems. The game does what it's set out to do, but I really hate how it does it and would rather dig out Fate.

Totally fair criticism of it (though i've found that most people deep into the system will rage at you if you have anything over a 4 in a stat, so your 5 should have been sufficient). No one dice system is for everyone! I found it favorable compared to missing in dnd and having nothing interesting happen, which on lots of builds happens on like, anything under a 7 or 8. At least with a bunch of advantages (or threats! or despairs! or a triumph!), something happens, which makes the occasional full wash kind of notable and funny and require a narrative description for how literally nothing occurred.

Totally with you on proprietary dice being awful in a physical gaming world. Post-pandemic, it's not a game i'd want to play irl for precisely that reason. Online tools fully mitigate that, though.

[Jason]

I am also not a fan of FFG Star Wars, and I played a two-year long campaign (at the table, not electronically). 'Nough said.

Traveller is niche and all the players are fanatical die-hard fans? Ouch.

[Mechalich]

Most of their recent Kickstarters have had about 1,200 backers. What do you suppose is the ratio of "Kickstarter backers to players"?

It's potentially as low as 1:1. Modern layout and production technologies mean that RPG books can be produced for a song - art costs more than all other expenses combined. A gaming company can churn out endless piles of material on the back of a handful of freelancers while selling a tiny number of copies and still not suffer a loss. Onyx Path has been doing exactly this for over a decade, to the point of producing books with mere hundreds of backers.

[Jason]

There are 150,000 users with accounts on Mongoose's online forum. That seems a lot if there are only 1,200 active players.
I suppose some of them are Paranoia fans instead of Traveller.

[Mechalich]

There are 150,000 users with accounts on Mongoose's online forum. That seems a lot if there are only 1,200 active players.
I suppose some of them are Paranoia fans instead of Traveller.

Um...there are 142,000 users with accounts on this forum, and I doubt there are even 500 reasonably active posters. Internet numbers are funny like that.

[Telok]

There are 150,000 users with accounts on Mongoose's online forum. That seems a lot if there are only 1,200 active players.
I suppose some of them are Paranoia fans instead of Traveller.

Some of us are both.

Edit: Opinion: Starfinder is less science fiction than Star Wars, it is literally a space wizards game.

Suggestion: Clarify if you're looking for a space fantasy rpg, science fiction rpg, or a blend. I mean, Paranoia has more science bits than Star Wars or Starfinder.

[Jason]

Um...there are 142,000 users with accounts on this forum, and I doubt there are even 500 reasonably active posters. Internet numbers are funny like that.

But I'm sure there are more than 500 active readers of the comic.

[Anonymouswizard]

Totally fair criticism of it (though i've found that most people deep into the system will rage at you if you have anything over a 4 in a stat, so your 5 should have been sufficient). No one dice system is for everyone! I found it favorable compared to missing in dnd and having nothing interesting happen, which on lots of builds happens on like, anything under a 7 or 8. At least with a bunch of advantages (or threats! or despairs! or a triumph!), something happens, which makes the occasional full wash kind of notable and funny and require a narrative description for how literally nothing occurred.

It worked fine in combat, trying to work out what five Advantage and zero Successes or Triumphs on a roll to modify a swoop bike is hard. The darn bounty hunter left it in the hallway, I thought I'd make it collapsible so people could still move around the ship. A standard D&D skill check would have been easier for everybody in that situation, a failure by two would have failed but let me put it back together, while a massive failure would have given me spare parts at best

But yes, no dice system is one size fits all. Which means playing science fiction games can be so much nicer, because it can be much easier to get people to try a new one as compared with fantasy games.

Totally with you on proprietary dice being awful in a physical gaming world. Post-pandemic, it's not a game i'd want to play irl for precisely that reason. Online tools fully mitigate that, though.

Yeah, although to be fair I do own a bunch of Fate/Fudge dice, partially because they aren't required.

[SunsetWaraxe]

For the last ten or so years, the answer has to be Warhammer 40k and Star Wars. For 40k, I do not know many people who have played the new RPG but Dark Heresy (and its derivative games) are very popular and well liked. Star Wars... You either like the FFG version of the game with its weird dice or you loathe it. I know very few people who have mild opinions on the game. Star Wars Saga Edition is, IMO, one of the best d20 Sci-Fi games ever made, which you can easily modified to fit pretty much any type of Sci-Fi game you want to run. WEG's d6 system has a lot of old school fans too.

Starfinder is also very popular and probably has the best ground game of any sci-fi game (thanks to Starfinder Society).

I would not count Star Trek out, as the new system is a blast to play and I have seen people play it IRL (but it is definitely well below the above three).

Infinity is a very, very niche (but super fun) wargame that has its own RPG, which uses the same system as the Star Trek RPG. Quite fun.

Personally, I tend to DM a lot of Stars Without Number but it is very niche.

I recently played some Savage Worlds Rifts, which was great! Savage Worlds is a much simpler system, which is appealing to many (due to how convoluted and dense the old Palladium books were).

[Calthropstu]

After measuring the bases for each game, I have found that battletech uses the largest bases of those I have access to. Hope this helps!

[Spriteless]

I find that whatever I am willing to GM has the highest player base around me.

But, sadly, it might be that D&D's Ravnica and Eberron settings have a higher player base than a purely SF RPG.