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2021-04-30, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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- Philadelphia, PA
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OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
New comic is up.
Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~
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2021-04-30, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Yikes, here comes surly and unpleasant Durkon with his patented turn the issue around on Roy. Again. Nice callback (?) to Origin of PCs.
Last edited by vonBoomslang; 2021-04-30 at 08:44 AM.
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2021-04-30, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Sharangar's Revenge
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
"Pract'cally Divine."
Thanks, Rich!
Edit:
This is a bit of a late notice, but if by some chance you read this again Rich, Durkon says both 'aboot' and 'about' in his third thought balloon in panel 6.Last edited by Lord Torath; 2021-04-30 at 12:09 PM.
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2021-04-30, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Knoxville Tennessee
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
I feel like it's holding them to a bit of an unreasonable standard here to say they were so very wrong to be defending themselves from people trying to kill them instead of getting their whole life story every time to work out what the best nonviolent solution to the person trying to stab them is.
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2021-04-30, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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2021-04-30, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2018
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
You have to admit, Roy, he's got you pegged.
It feels like it's been a while since we've explored this particular facet Durkon and Roy's dynamic, showing that Roy doesn't have a monopoly on sardonic reproach. Durkon gets it from his mother, I think, though she delivers hers with a wry grin instead of not-mad-just-disappointed stoicism. I'm not sure which cuts deeper.
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2021-04-30, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Beautifully said, Durkon.
"Getting the Diagnosis right doesn't mean you got the Treatment right" is such a great way to sum up the situation.
The way he's matured and learned to assert himself is so cool to see. And the way he puts things is so straightforward yet eloquent, I wouldn't be surprised if he finds his calling in a leadership role after this story.
I'm really loving this arc, Giant. Keep up the amazing work!Last edited by Ionathus; 2021-04-30 at 08:50 AM.
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2021-04-30, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Northern Ireland
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
To err is divine, I guess.
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2021-04-30, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Roy is hilarious here. And I love these callbacks!
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2021-04-30, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- In a castle under the sea
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Sometimes, people won't pay any attention to a problem until the people dying because of it threaten to unleash a god-destroying abomination into the heavens. Here's hoping the Order finds a way to follow through on noticing the problem...
You shouldn't have to be LG to feel bad about killing people without stopping to wonder why they're doing what they're doing.
Roy and Durkon aren't just realizing they never asked—they realized they never even thought about asking.
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2021-04-30, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
A lovely comic, humor, plot, thematic relevance, it has it all, and now I’m sure this discussion thread isn’t going to get ugly like the last one.
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2021-04-30, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Yeaaaah, the only goblins they ever spoke to were grumpy teenagers. Which probably want the best source of information.
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2021-04-30, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-04-30, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
I feel like, at this point, the Giant could probably make a decent buck off of 'Redcloak was right' t-shirts, along the lines of the Magneto/Cyclops was right meme in the Marvel Universe
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2021-04-30, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- Dallas, TX
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Sure. It's much easier to claim self defense and kill the person attacking you than to discover why they are attacking you and begin work to try and heal the complex psychological, political, and/or socioeconomic circumstances that lead them to make the decision that they had to attack you.
But that doesn't make it more right to kill them and walk away feeling self justified in your defensive strategy, nor does it solve anything about the situation other than your immediate personal safety and the potential safety of others that might have been attacked by that specific person.
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2021-04-30, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
And now Serini will not have overheard this and perhaps have a change of heart because it was all in their heads...
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2021-04-30, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Durkon's point is that they treated Goblins as low-threat XP sources. When massed, they treated them as high-threat XP sources.
In fact, I think Durkon's attempt was the first time they tried to negotiate with Red Cloak, at least seriously.
Imagine a flip. Replace every single Goblin and Hobgoblin with a Human. They are a marginalized people who where hunted and killed, who have started organizing. Some of them are working with a lich as part of this fight against the generations of genocide against their people; the lich treats them like ****, but gives them a slim chance against the super weapons of the enemy (like, literal god-tier magic, such as the sapphire guard's resurrection stuff). Only by being united, brave and strong can they stand up against being eradicated from the planet.
Their enemies would rather the world be destroyed than they win and take their place secure from genocide, quite literally, as they destroy the cages that keep the world intact rather than let them harness the power. So they strive, sacrifice and fight for the lives of their children and kin.
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2021-04-30, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Hee hee, some good levity here while still approaching the main subject with appropriate seriousness.
I do think it's interesting, having been reading some old comics lately, how little Roy probably even considered Redcloak's importance in the whole scheme or what his plan really is (until, presumably, whatever Durkon told him that Thor told him).
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2021-04-30, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
It's a good conversation. Some of the events in Origin of PCs might spring to mind here - Roy was somewhat better about "seeing the adversary's point of view" there.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2021-04-30, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-04-30, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think that's what they're really saying, if you get to the bottom of it. It's that Roy realizes he's never bothered looking beyond that. It's never even occurred to him. For example, we know for a fact at least some of the goblins serving under Xykon at the Dungeon of Dorukan did so under duress, and some surrendered and were killed by Belkar. Did Roy know that? Apparently not, because he didn't care enough about their lives and dignity. Coup de grace comes to mind.
Roy is much better than most in this regard, almost up there with O-Chul. But this is a real shortcoming of his, and it's to his credit that he's acknowledging it now.ungelic is us
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2021-04-30, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
I think the criticize here is not that they fought for their life as a default behaviour. It's that they not even once ask the goblinoids. It is that they never even wondered why.
The OOTS won a lot of their battles, I think it's fair to consider that at least once, they had the opportunity to make a prisoner, and ask them why they are following Xykon, or seek for goblinoids factions would be interested in being part of the good guys.
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2021-04-30, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
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- Broomfield CO
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
So,
uh..
Turn's out Durkon's a solid moral center.
This is probably best relegated to the epilogue, but He should spend some time with V.Now, Back to Lurking!
Originally Posted by The Giant
Belkar's Death Countdown best guess: 31/49 days used before Belkar is gone forever more! - updated to morning at 1190!
Hey, its the Blog where I write! Dice Roles
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2021-04-30, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
I giggled at Roy's "It's out of my system now" And I sympathize with how he needed that small outburst of emotion to become rational and efficient again.
Am I the only one to think that Durkon's realization about the ultimate injustice to the goblins gives the Order a strategic advantage? Before, their only option to try and convince Redcloak was to threaten with the world's destruction. Now, they can actually *negotiate* with something that Redcloak cares about, namely acting as ambassadors to the gods to come to an agreement for improvement (e.g. a goblins vs other races non-aggression pact in this world, and eventually improved conditions in the next).
Also, Durkon's punchline!
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2021-04-30, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
"Every time" is unreasonable.
"Even one time" is not unreasonable.
Roy and Durkon are coming to grips with the fact that they didn't try as hard to understand goblinoids as they did with human bandits, or dwarven bombers, or insane human paladins, or psychopathic twins who'd already tried to kill them half a dozen times, or even Xykon. Roy KNOWS why Xykon killed his father's master, because he bothered to ask.
I don't know that either one should have fallen for this, had they been paladins, but taking a beat to let that sink in, rather than brushing it off reflexively, is probably appropriate.
What defines being Lawful Good is that you try to improve your record.
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2021-04-30, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Thanks Giant!
To find in order to lose; To fall in order to stand up
To freeze in order to ignite; To find myself within, and not fear the edge
To die in order to be reborn to the new world
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2021-04-30, 09:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Hmm, dubious about this direction but lets see where it goes.
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2021-04-30, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Knoxville Tennessee
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Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2021-04-30, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
"If there's one thing anyone could say about Roy Greenhilt, it's that he's never managed to fight and talk at the same time."
This may be the most accurate dunk anyone has ever made on Roy.
(Dwarven accent removed for ease of reading)
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2021-04-30, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1233 - The Discussion Thread
What interests me now is whether Durkon has changed his mind about whether the gods should be involved in the solution, or if he still believes that it's up to the mortals to clean up this mess.
On one hand, his faith in the gods has just taken a pretty harsh beating. On the other, this new information could be an argument that unless this problem is addressed at the divine level, anything done by mortals might be nothing more than a short-term solution.