Upgrading your deity? Clerics become more devout?

[bean illus]

What are the consequences of upgrading your deity?

Of course, some deities don't play well with others. But within the same pantheon from a lower deity to a higher one, with no alignment problems?
Let's assume elves. You once worshipped a minor deity, or an ideal, and you upgrade to Corellon Laurethian. So, no minor deities are going to give you a hard time, right?

I assume your domains would need to be granted by the new deity, and that may include changing them (you're locked in on any currently held domains that the new deity also grants).

What about the domain you had already traded for a devotion feat? Gotta give that back, and pick a new one from the new deity's domain portfolio? What about the domain feat you chose wirh a feat, as an ideal? Can you keep that?

What about the skill points that you already spent? Lose your trickery and pact domains, and suddenly need to reassign max Bluff, Disguise, Hide, and Appraise, Intimidate, and Sense Motive ranks? One might need to reassign every skill point.

I would want to rule that the skills stay the same (though all else may need changed), but you can't add more ranks until game rulres allow (cross class/etc). It seems a better solution than telling a character to reassign every skill point.

[Darg]

DIVINE CONVERSION

As noted in the Player’s Handbook, a cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct imposed by his deity loses all spells and class features and cannot attain any more levels as a cleric of that deity. All these penalties remain in effect until he atones. But what if he doesn’t want to atone? What if a cleric of Hextor finds new meaning and purpose in serving Heironeous after a dramatic conversion experience? Such a character need not become a multiclass ex-cleric of Hextor/cleric of Heironeous. Instead, Heironeous can simply reinstate the character’s cleric powers once he has proven his loyalty, talent, and ability.

A cleric who changes his patron deity must complete a quest to prove his devotion to his new patron. The nature of the quest depends on the deity, and it always clearly reflects the deity’s alignment as well as his or her goals and beliefs. To start the process, the cleric must voluntarily accept a geas/quest spell cast by a higher-level cleric of his new deity. During the quest, the cleric has no access to spells or cleric class features—except his weapon and armor proficiencies, which he does not forfeit.

Upon completing the quest, the cleric receives the benefit of an atonement spell from a cleric of the new deity. The character then becomes a cleric of the new deity and is inducted into the clergy during an appropriate ceremony of the DM’s choosing. After selecting two of the new deity’s domains in lieu of his old ones, the character has all the powers and abilities of his previous cleric level, plus the granted powers of his new domains.

This method is the only one by which a cleric can change his deity. The retraining rules can’t be used to accomplish this task—it is simply too substantial a change in the character’s identity (not to mention his source of power) to chalk up to a bit of practice in his off hours.

No real penalty, just a lot of legwork as a powerless cleric. As for the feats, if they aren't of the new god's domains I would remove them and the cleric gets their domains back. Otherwise they could keep them. I wouldn't allow the selection of a new devotion feat so quickly after converting because they wouldn't have proven their devotion yet. Feats that weren't from a traded domain, can be retrained unless they fit the new god.

[bean illus]

No real penalty, just a lot of legwork as a powerless cleric.

So, a level appropriate challenge, and you're good to go? I mean, that's no big deal. Level appropriate challenges is what we do.
After all, it's Corellon. How much trouble could you be in? Especially if you only changed a little, and from an ideal, instead of a different deity (which isn't mentioned).

I didn't notice any reference to the skill point redistribution, either. It sounds tedious, and fraught, to require the character to reassign ... up to 150+ skill points ... into skills that they had never once used before? Now they're epic in 7 entirely different skills?

Do i remember, that in character rebuild, the skill points are not reassigned?

Maybe this is what i remember

After your character goes through the retraining or rebuilding process, you might notice that he doesn’t quite match the specs of a similar character built up to the same level by the normal method. Maybe his skill points don’t add up quite right, or his hit points are off a bit from the expected value. But the small variations that crop up in this process don’t significantly impact play balance, and writing rules to eliminate them would complicate the process without really​ improving the quality of your game.

[aglondier]

Given how long lived and chaotic elves are, shifting around the elven pantheon may well simply require a little prayer and a change of shirt. I don't see them as being particularly jealous of their worshippers...barring massive alignment shifts...or involvement with Lolth, she doesn't share her toys with anyone...

[bean illus]

Given how long lived and chaotic elves are, shifting around the elven pantheon may well simply require a little prayer and a change of shirt. I don't see them as being particularly jealous of their worshippers...barring massive alignment shifts...or involvement with Lolth, she doesn't share her toys with anyone...

See, that's what I'm sayin'. It's not like we're talking Hextor to Heironeous.

So, like, i put down the longbow, and pick up a long sword, and admit that Corellon Laurethian was right the whole time, and it's a mighty fine weapon? Kill an orc without using spells? Bam, weapon focus long sword, baby.

[icefractal]

So, a level appropriate challenge, and you're good to go? I mean, that's no big deal. Level appropriate challenges is what we do.

While it might well be easier in some cases - moving between non-enemy gods of the same pantheon for example - in general a "quest" sounds like more than one encounter. Level-appropriate (or more accurately power-appropriate) - probably? If it's a test, the new god probably wouldn't send you to near-certain death, nor to something trivial. But the difficulty might vary by how skeptical the new god is.

It does raise the question of whether the rest of the party can help. On the one hand, from a game perspective it's a lot better if they can and makes it much easier to fit in. On the other hand, at high levels a no-spells Cleric's contribution to the team is pretty minimal, depending what the test entails. Standing in the back while the rest of the party handles things doesn't seem very fitting. Moving to more abstract challenges - "peacefully stop the witch hunt that's overtaking this town since the freak storm destroyed their crops" rather than "slay Venombreath, the scourge of the dales" - makes level somewhat less of a factor, but is also trickier to create on short notice. Probably something to discuss in advance so it can fit into the flow of other events.

[Particle_Man]

For skills gained as class skills in a domain that you now lose, I would have changed the skill ranks to half-skill ranks, as it is now a cross-class skill. Bit of a paperwork nightmare if you are not a single-classed cleric though.

Another way I might do it for "friendly pantheons" is, if there is no required alignment change, simply have the character spend a feat to add a domain from the new god, and let the character worship both gods. Less paperwork.

[Maat Mons]

Bit of a nitpick, but going "up a step" in the same pantheon feels like you're becoming less devout. Generally, as you go "down" in the pantheon, deities become more focused. And as you go "up" their interests broaden out.

I tend to imagine that elven Clerics start out training to be Clerics of Corellon. But during training, many of them find a sub-deity of his that really aligns with their interests. So the only elves who wind up actually being directly devoted to Corellon at the end of Cleric school are the ones who didn't feel strongly enough about any particular area.

Sort of like how you can be a Cleric of the Sovereign Host, if you don't feel a particular connection to any specific member of the pantheon. The Clerics who choose this option aren't "more devout." They're actually kind of lacking in any personal connection to a deity.

[bean illus]

Bit of a nitpick, but going "up a step" in the same pantheon feels like you're becoming less devout. Generally, as you go "down" in the pantheon, deities become more focused. And as you go "up" their interests broaden out.

I tend to imagine that elven Clerics start out training to be Clerics of Corellon. But during training, many of them find a sub-deity of his that really aligns with their interests. So the only elves who wind up actually being directly devoted to Corellon at the end of Cleric school are the ones who didn't feel strongly enough about any particular area.

Sort of like how you can be a Cleric of the Sovereign Host, if you don't feel a particular connection to any specific member of the pantheon. The Clerics who choose this option aren't "more devout." They're actually kind of lacking in any personal connection to a deity.

Perhaps that's how you perceived your religious experience, but that's not how i came to Corellon. In my youth the wise ones tried to tell me of his glory, but i was too brash to understand. But while helping my buddy search for the Misty Isle, i added +1 inherent bonus to my wisdom. It became clear what a smart guy Corellon is.