Whishing for a Spell Glyph

[Pyrophilios]

I need some input on Genie Warlock options.

Genielocks get Whish at 17th level and Limited Wish at 14th.

Wish states:
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.
You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components.
The spell simply takes effect.

Glyph of Warding states:
Spell Glyph.
You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph.

At Higher Levels.
If you create a spell glyph, you can store any spell of up to the same level as the slot you use for the glyph of warding.

The question is: Can a Genielock simply wish for a 6th level Spell Glyph filled with Summon Fiend - even though he doesn't have the spell prepared?
Does he need to use his Limited Wish to cast the Summon Fiend spell for the Wish casted Spell Glyph?

Wish states you don't need to meet any requirements in the spell you cast - so would that mean the Genielock gets two spells for the price of one? After all, he is just recreating a spell effect that usually costs two spells to produce.

[sayaijin]

I think that using Wish to get the value of two spells is beyond the power of a single 8th or lower spell. So therefore I'd have you use both Wish and Limited Wish to do this.

You could try to use the Wish to do both, but it would get the chance of failure.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'd say you can't get it at all--you'd need to spend two spell slots to do so, but wish doesn't have that provision. So no dice. You can get the other, non spell glyphs though.

[sayaijin]

I'd say you can't get it at all--you'd need to spend two spell slots to do so, but wish doesn't have that provision. So no dice. You can get the other, non spell glyphs though.

So we know Wish can create a Glyph of Warding, so the issue is the second spell slot. He could use another spell he has access to as a Warlock, or...

Spoiler: Limited Wish

Show

At 14th level, You entreat your patron to grant you a small wish. As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie's Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action. The spell can be from any class's spell list, and you don't need to meet the requirements in that spell, including costly components: the spell simply takes effect as part of this action.

"the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower"

I would rule that he could use the Wish and Limited Wish to make a glyph with a 6th or lower spell. If he uses Wish to make a Glyph without limited Wish, then he has to use one of his spell slots.

[PhoenixPhyre]

So we know Wish can create a Glyph of Warding, so the issue is the second spell slot. He could use another spell he has access to as a Warlock, or...

Spoiler: Limited Wish

Show

At 14th level, You entreat your patron to grant you a small wish. As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie's Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action. The spell can be from any class's spell list, and you don't need to meet the requirements in that spell, including costly components: the spell simply takes effect as part of this action.

"the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower"

I would rule that he could use the Wish and Limited Wish to make a glyph with a 6th or lower spell. If he uses Wish to make a Glyph without limited Wish, then he has to use one of his spell slots.

But you can't cast them both at the same time. Glyph itself explicitly allows you to do so (as part of casting the spell you also cast a different spell to fill the glyph), but crucially Wish just replicates the effect without actually casting the spell. Thus, you don't get to use that exception. Which means you can't cast wish and use limited wish (or cast any other spell) with the same action. Which means you can't wish for a spell glyph.

[quindraco]

I need some input on Genie Warlock options.

Genielocks get Whish at 17th level and Limited Wish at 14th.

Wish states:
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower.
You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components.
The spell simply takes effect.

Glyph of Warding states:
Spell Glyph.
You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower in the glyph by casting it as part of creating the glyph.

At Higher Levels.
If you create a spell glyph, you can store any spell of up to the same level as the slot you use for the glyph of warding.

The question is: Can a Genielock simply wish for a 6th level Spell Glyph filled with Summon Fiend - even though he doesn't have the spell prepared?
Does he need to use his Limited Wish to cast the Summon Fiend spell for the Wish casted Spell Glyph?

Wish states you don't need to meet any requirements in the spell you cast - so would that mean the Genielock gets two spells for the price of one? After all, he is just recreating a spell effect that usually costs two spells to produce.

Warlocks don't have any spells prepared, and Wish couldn't do what you wanted even if you had Summon Fiend prepared using only the simulation version of the spell, because it's a 6th level spell and Glyph of Warding can't contain spells above level 3. So in either case, you'd need to employ the risky version to Wish for a Glyph with Summon Fiend in it.

The reason it doesn't work is that Wish lets you not meet requirements, but the requirements for the spell embedded in Glyph are requirements the spell has to meet, not you, so Wish doesn't override it, just like how Wish does not generally override targeting restrictions on spells. A more reasonable request would be if you were an undead or fey and attempted to use Wish to cast Simulacrum on yourself, arguing that Wish does override targeting restrictions for self-targeted spells. A permissive DM might let you use Wish to override the preparation requirement and embed a spell you know into the Glyph, arguing that that qualifies as a requirement for the caster rather than the spell, and likewise they might rule you can embed a spell you don't even know, but there's no question the safe, simulation version of Wish can't remove Glyph's embed spell level limit of 3.

By similar logic to above - ignoring the need to have the spell prepared by having it known instead, or ignoring it by just letting it work for any spell, even if you don't know it - you might be able to persuade your DM to let you cast the Glyph using Wish such that a party member puts the spell into the Glyph, rather than you (in which case the spell will absolutely need to be prepared, since under even the most permissive possible reading, that becomes a requirement on the other person, not you). There will be extra paperwork involved, since the embedded spell will rely on the party member for its numbers, not you, and you'll be opening up some crazy possibilities, but Wish is intended to be crazy. In fact, you are seriously low-balling how powerful a high level Genielock is, because you can use Wish to cast Simulacrum, and your Simulacrum will get Wish back after a long rest, because your version of it doesn't rely on spell slots, and the only things Simulacra don't recover on a long rest are spell slots and hit points. You and you alone can have a self-replicating legion of simulacra that can each cast Wish 1/day, giving you infinite Wishes with no repercussions.

[sayaijin]

What about limited wishing to have a 6th level slot prepared? Or limited wishing to have a 5th level or lower slot prepared?

[Pyrophilios]

I had hoped to avoid using Simulacrum. Because if I wanted Simulacrum I'd just create one of a lvl. 17 Wizard with all the necessary spells to fill the glyphs in the first place.

And I certainly don't want to venture in the RAW territory of Mystic Arcana not being part of the Simulacrum clause on non-replenishing ressources.

But now, that I'm rereading limited wish: "As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie's Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action.

Since it's only the effect and not the spell itself that is cast, you could argue that you actually can create the effect of a 6th level spell glyph summon fiend. Certainly more palatable then just conjuring up an archmage to build your traps.

[JackPhoenix]

I had hoped to avoid using Simulacrum. Because if I wanted Simulacrum I'd just create one of a lvl. 17 Wizard with all the necessary spells to fill the glyphs in the first place.

And I certainly don't want to venture in the RAW territory of Mystic Arcana not being part of the Simulacrum clause on non-replenishing ressources.

But now, that I'm rereading limited wish: "As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie's Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action.

Since it's only the effect and not the spell itself that is cast, you could argue that you actually can create the effect of a 6th level spell glyph summon fiend. Certainly more palatable then just conjuring up an archmage to build your traps.

There's no "6th level spell glyph summon fiend spell" that has a casting time of 1 action, so you can't use Limited Wish to with for its effect.

[Segev]

the limit on the level of spell a Glyph can hold seems to me to be the showstopper, here.

Limited Wish can give the effect of a spell. Wish can give the effect of a spell. Glyph is a spell and putting a second spell into a Glyph is one effect of that second spell. It is something you can do with that second spell.

It certainly seems in line with the resources required for the overall effect done with spell slots.

Finagling over casting times for a pair of emulation abilities that are expressly meant to be highly flexible is counter to 5e's paradigm.

But if the Glyph is limited to third level spells, it would be a "stretch" use of Wish to increase that (unless it has recasting rules that would permit it to work if cast from an 8th level slot).

[Valmark]

All you need to do to store an higher leveled spell is to upcast Glyph- something you can easily do with Wish and Limited Wish.

The casting time is a non issue- If you say that the spell needs to be cast during the casting time of Glyph then it's already impossible with the "base" spell because it would already require multiple actions each turn (to cast a spell with a casting time longer then one action you need to consume it each turn) while if the Glyph can be filled after the casting (which seems to be the suggested option) then there is no timing issue.

This said, I would say that you need to consume both Wish (to make the Glyph) and a slot for the spell you're storing (or use Limited Wish) since Wish doesn't emulate two spells but only one.

[Segev]

All you need to do to store an higher leveled spell is to upcast Glyph- something you can easily do with Wish and Limited Wish.

The casting time is a non issue- If you say that the spell needs to be cast during the casting time of Glyph then it's already impossible with the "base" spell because it would already require multiple actions each turn (to cast a spell with a casting time longer then one action you need to consume it each turn) while if the Glyph can be filled after the casting (which seems to be the suggested option) then there is no timing issue.

This said, I would say that you need to consume both Wish (to make the Glyph) and a slot for the spell you're storing (or use Limited Wish) since Wish doesn't emulate two spells but only one.

Right. I thought using Wish + Limited Wish together was what was being proposed.